William Cheung is the GREATEST
James Kane
Wing Chun under
Dana Wong in Melbourne. He is an excellent teacher. I never believed that
Grandmaster
William Greang could be defeated, especially by a modified (that's what we
call
any other style of Wing Chun) Wing Chuner. Here is what really happened:
The Germany Incident:
Ten years After
Written by Marty Goldberg
Interview by Russ Urquhart
10 years ago, what many consider to be the most degrading crime
ever committed in martial arts history occurred in Cologne, Germany.
Grandmaster William Cheung, of Traditional Wing Chun, had been asked
to take time out of his busy seminar schedule to give a special two
day seminar in Germany. Always happy to accommodate people, Grandmaster
Cheung added the two days, unknowingly stepping in to a detailed plan
set up by Leung Ting to defame him. The end result was an illegally
distributed and highly edited video clip that wound up as an addition
to Leung Ting's video tape Dynamic Wing Tsun, and did nothing more but
to further hurt the image of Wing Chun Kung Fu.
This article, composed of interviews with the Grandmaster done
over 1994-95, will explain for the fist time in the pages of IKF,
Grandmaster
Cheung's explanation of what went on that day in Cologne. Also for the
first time in print, a detailed account of Leung Ting's four stage plan
for the Germany ambush that was recently exposed by another senior student
of Grandmaster Yip Man's that resides in northern Europe.
----------
Background
----------
At the time of the Germany ambush, there was much turmoil going
on within the Wing Chun family as to who had seniority, who was most
qualified, etc. The general public was exposed to this through letters
back and forth between many of the seniors and juniors, that appeared in
this magazine as well as others.
GM Cheung: "Well, many many years prior (to the incident), Leung Ting and
I were on speaking terms. But, I think it was just some misunderstanding
or something. And also, the other...there was a lot of question and answer
back and so on, on the magazines. Relating to who's seniority, and who's
more qualified. So..you know, it never was in my mind that he would try
something like (the Germany ambush)."
The missunerstanding in question is a result of two pieces of
misinformation. One was an incorrect interpretation of one of Grandmaster
Cheung's letters to state that he would "fight anyone, anywhere, anytime".
Those knowledgable in tradition, know that you can not challenge a senior.
One of the first things taught in any Kung Fu is that no members of the
same family should fight amongst themselves, and secondly to respect your
seniors.
The second misinterpretation was an incident that occurred in
New York, several months before the Germany ambush. Leung Ting was giving
a seminar in New York on his art Wing Tsun. Unknown to Grandmaster Cheung,
several of his students had chosen to attend this seminar. Leung Ting
wanted a volunteer to help him demonstrate his superior reflexes. He
chose one of GM Cheung's students, who happened to be wearing a World
Wing Chun Kung Fu Association (the governing body of Traditional Wing Chun)
t-shirt. The student managed to get through Leung Ting's guard and slap
his face a couple of times. One of Leung Ting's bodyguards immediately
jumped in, several other of GM Cheung's students jumped in to help, and
a large confrontation occurred, until one of GM Cheung's students finally
calmed the situation down. The event was not planned, and later upon
hearing
of the disturbance that occurred, GM Cheung severely reprimanded the
students
who had taken part.
--------------------------------
What Actually occurred in Germany
--------------------------------
GM Cheung: Several months later, somebody asked me to organize a seminar
in Germany for Traditional Wing Chun.The person who asked it, doesn't
practice Wing Chun, so he teamed up with a Wing Chun instructor that
had a school there. So they organized two days, Saturday and Sunday.
Russ: Now the seminar that they asked you, was this part of kind of what
you're doing now, this was a set of seminars you were doing, and someone
said we want one in Germany?
GM Cheung: Yah, yes.
Russ: Had you been to Germany before this?
GM Cheung: No.....yah, I've been there once before, but it was just on
tour.
Russ: Did you have much of an organization or a lot of Traditional Wing Chun
people in Germany at that time?
GM Cheung: No, not one single person. It was just someone that came out
from the blue and said "Look, let's do a seminar in Cologne". Before I
went to Germany, I was warned by a friend to keep out of trouble with the
law there because they dealt barbarically with foreigners, putting them in
jail for months without even questioning them if they broke the law. This
was a fact that stuck in my mind. Also, as I was only in Germany to do
one seminar, I did not obtain a work permit, so I knew if this was
discovered I would be in a lot of trouble and probably be detained there
for a long time.
On Saturday, the seminar began at 11am, and the organizer, Augustine
Yiu was late to pick me up. By the time I arrived at the university
basketball stadium (gym) where the seminar was to take place, the
participants were already inside. We were approached by two people, a
photographer and a journalist, from a German martial arts magazine who said
they wanted to interview me during the break. They wanted some photos
straight away and asked me to change in to my Kung Fu suit and slippers.
I complied and they took some photos of me in various poses. Because things
were running very late, I didn't have time to change back to my normal
track shoes and outfit.
It was time for the seminar to start and there were almost a 100
people there. So I started with some warm-ups, light warm-ups, Wing Chun
punching, and coordination drills. So after about fifteen or twenty
minutes, I sort of went around to check everybody's movements. So, one
chap came up with a couple of other guys walking behind him. One of them
introduced himself as Emin Boztepe, a student of Keith Kernspecht. He
was holding an issue of Combat Magazine in his hand that contained a copy
of an open letter which I had written to Lok Yiu, Leung Shung, Tsui Shun
Tin, and Wong Shun Leung some time ago. He wanted to ask some questions
about what I had previously said in the article. So I said, "Look, you just
read it, it's very clear". He said, "No, no, no, I want to challenge you."
I said although he did not have the seniority, by all means I would
humour him after the seminar. But let's please do it after. And then I
just
walked away and didn't take much notice.
When I started the second sort of technique drill, he came over
again,
and I noticed there's about 10-15 people walking behind and around him. And
as soon as he came up, they went and formed a circle around us. And he
said,
"I want to fight you now." And I said, "Well, that's different. You said
you wanted to spar and now you want to fight." I said, "Let's do it after
class." And he began mumbling something, and I said, "Look, you know, I
granted you the fight after the class. And strictly speaking, you're not
even in my seniority." So I walked away, but I knew he more or less
was going to try something. So after I walked away, the third step he
rushed in and threw a round punch with his right arm.
Russ: What did you think when this happened? Had you ever been in a
situation like this where you're teaching and someone had done this to
you before?
GM Cheung: No. In the exact same terms, when I first came to New York
(in 1983), in the seminar, they always want to test this and test that.
I always give them a chace. But this one, I knew it was different
because he had a whole group of people. When the second time he came up,
there's another 14-15 people with this time I noticed. So when I started
to walk away, the circle had been formed. They sort of put their arm up,
so that the other students could not get close. I had a German interpreter
standing next to me, and as it happened, someone put him in a headlock
and pulled him back behind the circle. And I knew it wasn't one person
at that moment, though I didn't know what the numbers were. So, you
know, he just jumped in and threw the punch and then I swung around and
shot out a Bil Sao (thrusting arm), which stopped his sucker punch. At
the same time, I front kicked him. It was always in the back of my mind,
if I hurt somebody it will involve the law and it will be so complicated.
So I more or less kicked just to push him away. But because I was wearing
the Kung Fu slippers, and the floor was polished timber and very slippery,
I slid away on impact. That was the other thing in my mind, that is why
I wanted to do it after the class (besides the reason that it was not
proper to interrupt other people's time that they are paying good money
for), that way I could change my shoes. Boztepe rushed in again throwing
punches furiously, so I sidestepped. I did the Jut Sao (jerking arm) and
Huen Sao (rotating wrist) to diffuse his punches. Then I used Pak Sao (push
block) to control his elbow. Because the floor was so slippery, I wound
up behind him. So I put him in a headlock, because my intention was only
to restrain him, not to fight him. Then I thought for a moment I was
going to...you know, might as well poke him in the eye and finish it right
there. He was struggling like a wounded mule because he had no countering
technique against the headlock. Because of the slipperiness of the floor
and my shoes, I was sliding around like I was on roller skates. At that
time, I started slipping, and then he fell as well. He was more or less
lying on top of me. Then he was sitting on my stomach, and tried to throw
a few punches which I blocked with Bil Sao's to the elbow. Then I arched
my body so he was trying to balance more or less, and then I kneed him a
couple of times. After that, somebody called out, Boztepe got up and
ran away. And as I got up, then I saw at least 20 people run out from the
gym. Somebody said that they had video cameras and regular cameras.
Russ: Did anyone try and do anything?
GM Cheung: No, because they already formed a circle. And also, I knew at
least some of them had weapons. When they formed the circle, that's when
I got some indication from their belts that they had something there.
Russ: By weapons, you mean guns or?
GM Cheung: No, they were armed with knives or something. See, and only
during the last month or six weeks when I talked to another Wing Chun --
modified Wing Chun -- instructor, and he told me there's no way they would
let me win, because they would come one after one after one for five or
six times. If I beat up one, the other one would jump in straight away.
And then another one, and another one. And then even after five or six,
then the whole lot would jump in. There's no way they would let me win.
Russ: So was he saying that he knew this was going to happen?
GM Cheung: Yah, it was all planned. You know, they deliberately set the
interview before...so that the journalists was there.
Russ: Do you feel this was a plan just by these guys that did this, or do
you feel that Leung Ting was aware of this and had something to do with
this?
GM Cheung: Leung Ting was for sure behind it, and then this Keith
Kernspecht, Leung Ting's student in Germany. They were behind it. But,
because, well he didn't land any punches. I just happened to slip on the
ground, and he was on top. And so, after they ran away, there was a little
bit of chaos. But I told them "Don't worry about it, we'll carry on with
the seminar." So everybody, apart from those people who ran away, everybody
stayed. So we carried on for another 3 1/2 hours.
In fact, during the break, after another hour and a half, during the
break the journalist was asking for more photo's. So I had to pose for more
photo's. And I'm sure at least one or two..maybe not all of them ran away..
because we don't know who they were, so they're still in the seminar. And
then when I was posing for photo's for the camera, some guy yelled out--
oh, what about he got beaten up, what about this or that. So the journalist
started asking questions. But I said, "There was a little situation, you
know." I told them what happened.
Russ: So what was your feeling at that time? Were you very angry?
GM Cheung: Well, I was a bit disappointed more than angry. I was
disappointed that...firstly, in Kung Fu, the respect towards elders, towards
seniors is very strong. And they claim to be Wing chun people. Then to set
up such an ambush. You know, I was a bit disappointed. And also, I felt
that was a bit low because I knew there's no way they would let me have a
fair fight because they had all these people there. And more so, because
there were other disciplines there, there was some Karate and some Tae Kwon
Do disciplines there.....to witness such behaviour. You know in fact,
because
I didn't know they were going to try something the next day, so I cancelled
the next day. And about two weeks later, I got back to Australia, I had
received about 10 letters offering their support, the people that attended
the seminar.
Russ: So once you returned to Australia, did you try and contact Leung Ting?
GM Cheung: No, no, because I had some commitments in Sydney. So it happened
to be Dave Cater and one of Black Belt's journalists was in Sydney. And we
had lunch there. This was just like two weeks after the event.
Russ: So they had heard....
GM Cheung: Oh, they knew about it.
Russ: What do you think, or what happened as a result of it?
GM Cheung: Well, it just let everybody find out how low can Leung Ting get
to. But I did have a meeting with my Association people, and we decided we
would not go down to that low.
Russ: I would assume a lot of your people wanted to retaliate?
GM Cheung: Oh yah, but I told them no, I don't want that. See, you can only
fight a dog down to the dog's level. So I told them no. But they did send
letters, because they weren't satisfied. And this guy Emin, he sent a few
letters stating he wanted another rematch or something. And I just told
him,
I said, "Look, you're not in the seniority to do a rematch." I gave him six
photo's and six persons, if he wants to have a good fight just pick any of
my
instructors. Never heard from him since.
Russ: But, you didn't want to fight a rematch, or?
GM Cheung: Nah, nah, he's no match. He can't throw punches (laugh). I
mean,
I would not have granted him another opportunity to degrade martial arts.
The whole episode took over 20 seconds to take place. I have seen both
the unedited version of the event on tape, as well as the edited version
available to the public (on Dynamic Wing Tsun). When we were on the ground,
Boztepe threw seven or so punches and I blocked all of them. This is proven
on the videos, because it still showed despite their editing. They cut out
my kicking Boztepe when he first jumped in, and also putting him in a head-
lock. They still could not make it look like I was hurt. The fact that I
resumed teaching the seminar after the fight and had another photo session
with the magazine in the break later only confirms that I blocked all of
Boztepe's punches. But I still wonder whether Boztepe was hurt from the
strikes of my knees.
Russ: You didn't see this as a challenge match in the traditional sense,
because it seems like from what you told me there wasn't the respect, this
just wasn't a traditional challenge....
GM Cheung: Nah. You can not challenge your senior. I would never grant a
challenge to a junior. There are times and places for them to say things.
See, Leung Ting is two generations from me. And this guy is another two
generations down. If these things start to happen, the whole organization,
the whole discipline will collapse. So, they have to go back and study the
tradition.
Russ: So it's 8 years later, how do you feel about this?
GM Cheung: I don't think it really matters, because those people are not
training in Wing Chun anymore. Well, they might claim to be teaching Wing
Chun, but they're not teaching Wing Chun.
Russ: As part of the Reunification tour, have you tried to speak to Leung
Ting?
GM Cheung: Yah, in fact when I was in L.A. two months ago, David Cater had
told me that Leung Ting was also in town. I gave Dave Cater three phone
numbers that he could get to me in three different cities. But I didn't
hear from him.
Russ: When you and Leung Ting were speaking, because you mentioned that
earlier, what sort of relationship did you have?
GM Cheung: Well, it was all right, it was quite cordial.
Russ: Did he respect your seniority and your position, or was it just kind
of where we both do the same thing?
GM Cheung: He was always addressing me as Sisook, which is one generation
away from him. So he always did that to skip one more generation. I mean,
showing respect is not for the other people, it's actually for your self.
Russ: So do you see him ever recognizing your total seniority and
recognizing
the Traditional Wing Chun family?
GM Cheung: Oh yah, because nobody can change the truth.
Four Stage Plan of Germany Ambush
---------------------------------
First stage: The Set Up - prior to the attack, the conspirators
organized an interview and photo session with a German martial
arts magazine, which was to take place before the seminar
commenced. This ensured that they had photos of GM Cheung in the
state before and after the attack. They also lured him to change in
to his silk Kung Fu suit and shoes, because they knew that this attire
is not practical in activities such as sparring or fighting,
especially on a hardwood polished gym floor.
Second stage: Hand to Hand Combat - There were six first lot reserve
fighters standing nearby to take over if Boztepe, the first challenger,
was defeated or appeared to be defeated. However, there were not
any specific plans regarding whether the reserve fighters would join
in one after another or all together. It was decided earlier that,
during this stage, they would stick to hand to hand combat. During the
time of the fighting, the photographer and video cameramen would record
as much material as possible for later usage. I.e. editing, splicing,
duplicating, copying, etc., to make an artificial documentary in order
to discredit GM Cheung. There was a total of eighteen people involved
in the ambush, including one still camera operator and two video
operators.
Third stage: The Armed Assault - This plan was to be carried out if the
second stage failed. The rest of the conspirators were instructed to
attack GM Cheung (as well as any people who tried to help) with weapons
they would smuggle in to the seminar. The instruction was to restrict
the weapons to blunt instruments.
Fourth stage: The Witnesses - The plan also allowed some of the
conspirators to stay back to bear witness afterwards.
*** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ***
TW
Kane) wrote:
<Big Snip>
I don't understand the obsession a lot of martial artists have with
insisting that their teacher or the grandmaster of their style is
invincible. I consistently beat my martial arts teacher when we spar. He's
thirty two years older than me and there would be something wrong with me
if I didn't. But I have maybe one tenth of his knowledge. That's the
important point: he has a lifetime of experience to share. I beat him
because I'm in my athletic prime and he's sixty something. There are a
lot of martial artists out there who assume that if you can beat a guy,
you have nothing to learn from him. Do you think that Angelo Dundee could
have beaten Muhammad Ali?
Andrew Nerlich
I'm sorry if I appeared to be a troll, but I'm not. I practice Traditional
Wing Chun under
Dana Wong in Melbourne. He is an excellent teacher. I never believed that
Grandmaster
William Greang could be defeated, especially by a modified (that's what we
call
any other style of Wing Chun) Wing Chuner. Here is what really happened:
<snip of article reposted to RMA for 6000000th time>
James, this has been posted before (another link to it
exists in another message on this NG even).
Posting this stuff over and over again does nothing but
reopen old wounds and perpetuate divisions. The last time
this blew up big time, it escalated into a fight between
WT and TWC in New York, with both parties thrown out of
the training spaces they rented, and all involved made to
look like total idiots, which they deserved.
Back off with this stuff, it can and has led to bad
consequences which will do nothing for the reputation
of the gentlemen you claim to admire.
-- Andrew Nerlich - WCKFO, ex WWCKFA http://www.zeta.org.au/~ajnerl/
Kyle...just Kyle
James Kane wrote in message ...
>I'm sorry if I appeared to be a troll, but I'm not. I practice Traditional
>Wing Chun under
>Dana Wong in Melbourne. He is an excellent teacher. I never believed that
>Grandmaster
>William Greang could be defeated, especially by a modified (that's what we
>call
>any other style of Wing Chun) Wing Chuner. Here is what really happened:
<<snip>>
How does that prove Willian Cheung is the greatest? If I find a random
modified WC stylist and beat him up, can I be the greatest too?
------------------------------------------------------------
Digital-Ages Online http://www.digital-ages.com
Sega, Nintendo, Sony, etc
"That which does not kill us, may try again." - martial arts proverb
------------------------------------------------------------
re...@sandtechnology.com
In article <n7IA2.11$l5.312664@WReNphoon2>,
erbma...@hotmail.com (James Kane) wrote:
> I'm sorry if I appeared to be a troll, but I'm not. I practice Traditional
> Wing Chun under
> Dana Wong in Melbourne. He is an excellent teacher. I never believed that
> Grandmaster
> William Greang could be defeated, especially by a modified (that's what we
> call
> any other style of Wing Chun) Wing Chuner.
Anyone can be beat, and fighting is a young man's game. As for modified, if
you examine the history and the development of the systems, Cheung sifu's WCK
is far more "modified" than, for example, Ho Kam-Ming's. Cheung is a true WCK
master and developed his art, adding things like his elbow watching, entry
move, knife form, and other innovations. Unfortunately, you can't be an
innovator and call someone else "modified" ;)
> Here is what really happened:
What really happened was that a group of people decided to put themselves and
their own marketing before the good of the art and the rest of the family.
Also, unfortunatey, pride keeps them passing along these stories too well
meaning students who keep them going further. Best left far behind us, IMHO.
--
Rene Ritchie
http://www.wingchunkuen.com
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