Gay BJJ and Judo - Grappling Homoerotic Underpinnings

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Todd Fletcher

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Aug 20, 2002, 4:33:43 AM8/20/02
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The twin realms of BJJ and Judo are rife with homosexual subtext - to
a degree far greater than most exponents would ever care to admit. As
Jiu-Jitsu.net's Diami Virgilio writes, 'If you're a guy, it's thought
of as too intimate. Wrestlers get grief, but not a tenth of what we
get (no guards)...This is the most intimate sport out there. Wrestling
is close, but there's enough escaping and shooting and slamming for
practitioners to justify their "manhood". Jiu jitsu (and by inference,
judo - Ed) is all about the ground'.

All about the ground. All about mounting your opponent - front (groin
to groin) and back (groin to ass). All about taking him into your
guard - so that your hips grind together as though illustrating a
position from 'The Joy of Gay Sex'. All about strangling him into
submission - a typically gay male fantasy, blending elements of both
entrapment and domination into a irrefutably erotic act. Also all
about wearing gis - inherently fetishistic costumes which serve to
exaggerate masculine physicality (the cut of a standard judogi causes
its wearer's shoulders, chest, arms and legs to appear double their
actual size) whilst simultaneously drawing attention to it (the fact
that nothing is worn beneath the gi jacket, and the frequency with
which it falls open, displaying the athletes's chest and midsection in
a similar fashion to that depicted in most soft-core homosexual
photography, is clearly indicative of this).

It would be comforting to think of my opinion as just that - a
slanted, uneven, one-of-a-kind posting, a subjective bias unlikely to
be held by anyone else of sound mind.

It would be comforting, but it would also be wrong, for there are many
other active BJJers/judoka who participate in these sports with the
sole intent of sexual gratification, who respond to related media as
though it were gay pornography, who view their local clubs as dating
pools.

But - where are these gay grapplers? Probably closer than you'd like
to think. Probably right there in your guard, angling for a mount with
carnal intent, or lying beneath you, shuddering a little as you
activate a strangle. They're also to be found at many locations
throughout the Internet, in groups and clubs where Olympic judoka
Jimmy Pedro and Brazilian legend Royce Gracie are regarded as little
less than gay icons, pioneers in the field of sports sexualization,
demagogues at the forefront of grappling as a homosexual endeavor.

Before you submit a reply to this message, before you decide to
unthinkingly flame me, bear in mind that it is not my intent to stir
up controversy here, but debate; not namecalling, but discussion; not
paranoia, but awareness.

Likewise, I am perfectly aware that most guys grapple without any
thought to the homoerotic elements of what they do; that many gay
BJJers and judoka feel nothing when rolling; that those who do are in
the minority.

It's just that they are a significant minority. A growing minority. A
minority concealed in the grey areas of BJJ and Judo, in the moments
when a too-eager hand brushes against a face, a chest, a stomach, a
crotch, in the moments when a pin becomes a pleasurable act, in the
moments when two testosterone-fueled fighters fuse together as a
single entity.

In the moments when grappling is truly gay.

fu...@nospamearthlink.net

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Aug 20, 2002, 4:36:25 AM8/20/02
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On 20 Aug 2002 01:33:43 -0700, toddfl...@eircom.net (Todd Fletcher)
wrote:

[troll snippage]


Your post is gay.

Andy

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Aug 20, 2002, 7:35:02 AM8/20/02
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"Todd Fletcher" <toddfl...@eircom.net> wrote in message
news:2fc0ec20.02082...@posting.google.com...

this has got to be the funniest, most well disguised troll post i have read
on RMA.

even chokies little alter egos didnt inject as much humour.

Chris Johnson

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Aug 20, 2002, 9:52:00 AM8/20/02
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Todd Fletcher wrote:
>
>


You are truly warped.

A most excellent troll posting.


CJ

hal

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Aug 20, 2002, 10:13:54 AM8/20/02
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On 20 Aug 2002 01:33:43 -0700, wrote:


>
>In the moments when grappling is truly gay.

Very, very well done. I would give that one a 9.9 on the troll scale.


But you do raise some interesting points. Seems like more than a
minor coincidence to me that our two most vocal grapplers, Gi and
Trav, both, have, on many occasions, referred to their grappling
partners as "my guy". Hmmmmmm.

In interesting anecdote to throw in: One day while waiting for my
manly-men stand-up striking art class, I was chatting up a hot young
babe (you know, a woman) who was waiting for her kickboxing class (god
I love co-ed kickboxing ! You know, like, with women) and we were
watching a bunch of sweaty, smelly guys coming out of their Hapkido
class, and the babe looks at me and says: "You know, I just don't get
it with guys and wrestling, it seems all so. . . homoerotic to me,
don't you think?" I just thought about RMA's ass grabbers, and could
only smile. Of course I was scoping her braless spandex tank top
(you know, like, with boobs?) which made smiling even easier.

Hal


and drain deez nuts

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Aug 20, 2002, 1:08:29 PM8/20/02
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>was waiting for her kickboxing class (god
>I love co-ed kickboxing ! You know, like, with women) and we were
>watching a bunch of sweaty, smelly guys coming out of their Hapkido
>class, and the babe looks at me and says: "You know, I just don't get
>it with guys and wrestling, it seems all so. . . homoerotic to me,
>don't you think?" I just thought about RMA's ass grabbers, and could
>only smile. Of course I was scoping her braless spandex tank top
>(you know, like, with boobs?) which made smiling even easier.
>
>Hal
>
>

Women find it easy to talk this way with guys that they think are homosexual.

Trav

Logan

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Aug 20, 2002, 1:42:49 PM8/20/02
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fu...@nospamearthlink.net wrote in message news:<3d61ff6f...@news.verizon.net>...

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

hal

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Aug 20, 2002, 1:22:08 PM8/20/02
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I suppose you would know all about that, eh Trav?

Hal

>
>Trav

Chris Johnson

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Aug 20, 2002, 3:33:40 PM8/20/02
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You're shallow, Hal. (Sounds like a movie!) But I'd be scoping out
the mountain range myself, searching for the easiest climb to the top.
Mount Nips, I call it!

I've heard from a few women that guys together is as exciting for
women to see as women together is for men to see. I've promised
that is a form of entertainment that I WILL NOT provide for any
women, though. They'll just have to settle for me, and that's
good enough for any woman who isn't crazy.

I'll certainly agree with the idea that some positions used in
the grappling arts look pretty suggestive. I'm quite sure that
if I were to assume such a position with a certain young lady
in my weapons class (if we did grappling moves anyway, which we
don't) and her father walked in at that moment, I'd be a dead
man if I didn't run fast enough, regardless of how many layers
of clothing were involved or the intent of the maneuver.

CJ

Chris Johnson

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Aug 20, 2002, 3:35:22 PM8/20/02
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OF COURSE THERE IS!

(Insert anti-homosexual rant here, if you care to.)

CJ

My ass is an exit, not an entrance. Understand that and
we'll have no problems.

"Silly faggot, dicks are for chicks!"

Jim Clayman

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Aug 20, 2002, 4:20:03 PM8/20/02
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>"You know, I just don't get
> it with guys and wrestling, it seems all so. . . homoerotic to me,
> don't you think?" I just thought about RMA's ass grabbers, and could
> only smile. Of course I was scoping her braless spandex tank top
> (you know, like, with boobs?) which made smiling even easier.
>
> Hal

She was secretly turned on.

Chicks dig Cauliflower ear.

Kirk Lawson

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Aug 21, 2002, 7:14:35 AM8/21/02
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hahahaha

5 points

Peace favor your sword (IH)
--
"In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or
knowledge of their use."
-Achille Marozzo, 1536
--
"...it's the nature of the media and the participants. A herd of martial
artists gets together and a fight breaks out; quelle surprise."
-Chas Speaking of rec.martial-arts

and drain deez nuts

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Aug 21, 2002, 1:10:28 PM8/21/02
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>>Women find it easy to talk this way with guys that they think are
>homosexual.
>
>I suppose you would know all about that, eh Trav?
>
>Hal

Yes, I eavesdrop on chicks talking to fags that act like you all the time at
the gym.

Trav

and drain deez nuts

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Aug 21, 2002, 1:11:39 PM8/21/02
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>I've heard from a few women that guys together is as exciting for
>women to see as women together is for men to see. I've promised
>that is a form of entertainment that I WILL NOT provide for any
>women, though. They'll just have to settle for me, and that's
>good enough for any woman who isn't crazy.

You get these chicks and get them to pony up $50 each and I will fuck hal in
the ass for their enjoyment.

Trav

hal

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Aug 21, 2002, 2:33:50 PM8/21/02
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come on Trav, you would fuck anyone in the ass for free. Sorry,
though, you're not my type. If I ever did consider sex with a man, it
sure wouldn't be with an egomaniacal faggot like you.

Hal

>
>Trav

hal

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Aug 21, 2002, 2:31:43 PM8/21/02
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You remind me so much of some people I used to know. In grade school.

Hal


>Trav

Matthew Weigel

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Aug 21, 2002, 3:38:24 PM8/21/02
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<hal> wrote:

>>>I suppose you would know all about that, eh Trav?

>You remind me so much of some people I used to know. In grade school.

Yeah, you seem to have pretty good memories of your time in
grade school. But that's not too surprising; it's been what, 2
years since then?
--
Matthew Weigel
Research Systems Programmer
mcwe...@cs.cmu.edu

hal

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Aug 21, 2002, 4:13:53 PM8/21/02
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On 21 Aug 2002 19:38:24 GMT, wrote:

><hal> wrote:
>
>>>>I suppose you would know all about that, eh Trav?
>
>>You remind me so much of some people I used to know. In grade school.
>
>Yeah, you seem to have pretty good memories of your time in
>grade school. But that's not too surprising; it's been what, 2
>years since then?

Hey Matthew, don't you have some code to debug or somethin'?

Hal

Matthew Weigel

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Aug 21, 2002, 5:15:13 PM8/21/02
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<hal> wrote:

>Hey Matthew, don't you have some code to debug or somethin'?

Nope; finished a project on Monday, and I've spent the last
couple of days tying up lose ends and posting while crap
compiles.

Man it feels good to beat the code into submission rather than
the other way around.

Rob Dueck

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Aug 21, 2002, 7:39:17 PM8/21/02
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Spoken like someone who has nothing better to say.


<hal> wrote in message news:3d63dc68...@news.blackfoot.net...

Rob Dueck

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Aug 21, 2002, 7:41:37 PM8/21/02
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OHHH MAAAA WORD
THat is Nasty.

HAL??? I would figure you would take a princess like Gou first...not a tramp
like Hal

"and drain deez nuts" <trav...@aol.cominyrface> wrote in message
news:20020821131139...@mb-mq.aol.com...

Gichoke

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Aug 21, 2002, 11:06:17 PM8/21/02
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>rom: hal

>
>>>>Women find it easy to talk this way with guys that they think are
>>>homosexual.
>>>
>>>I suppose you would know all about that, eh Trav?
>>>
>>>Hal
>>
>>Yes, I eavesdrop on chicks talking to fags that act like you all the time at
>>the gym.
>
>You remind me so much of some people I used to know. In grade school.

Oh yeah?
Well what Trav lacks in maturity he makes up in....uh...
help me out here, trav.


Gi

Logan

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Aug 22, 2002, 5:10:33 AM8/22/02
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trav...@aol.cominyrface (and drain deez nuts) wrote in message news:<20020821131139...@mb-mq.aol.com>...

From inside his guard, or from a rear mount?

Todd Fletcher

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Aug 22, 2002, 6:38:15 AM8/22/02
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clayma...@aol.com (Jim Clayman) wrote in message news:<aa3a6b57.02082...@posting.google.com>...

This discussion seems to have spun out of control a little; maybe
someone might like to directly address the issue this thread was
intended to explore?

Kirk Lawson

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Aug 22, 2002, 8:26:08 AM8/22/02
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Matthew Weigel wrote:
>
> <hal> wrote:
>
> >Hey Matthew, don't you have some code to debug or somethin'?
>
> Nope; finished a project on Monday, and I've spent the last
> couple of days tying up lose ends and posting while crap
> compiles.
>
> Man it feels good to beat the code into submission rather than
> the other way around.

It's interesting the way programmers and tech people tend to take an
adversarial "role" "against" the code/hardware, personifying the
inanimate tech and abstract code.

There's been more then one occasion after spending annoying amounts of
time tracking down a particular bug or another I look at the computer
and triumphantly declare, "I *beat* you, you stupid computer!"

I've noticed most I.T. people do this to some degree or another, even if
it's just a casual comment like "...it feels good to beat the code into


submission rather than the other way around."

No real point to this rambling. Just an observation.

Matthew Weigel

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Aug 22, 2002, 9:28:54 AM8/22/02
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Kirk Lawson <NO_lklaw...@heapy.com.SPAMSUX> wrote:

>It's interesting the way programmers and tech people tend to take an
>adversarial "role" "against" the code/hardware, personifying the
>inanimate tech and abstract code.

But it's not personifying it. That shit was written by someone,
or someones, and it is against the consensual stupidity of that
group against which I am struggling. Considering the boundless
nature of stupidity, it is *always* refreshing to not be beaten
by it.

>I've noticed most I.T. people do this to some degree or another, even if
>it's just a casual comment like "...it feels good to beat the code into
>submission rather than the other way around."

Shorthand :-)

Matthew Weigel

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Aug 22, 2002, 11:49:23 AM8/22/02
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Todd Fletcher <toddfl...@eircom.net> wrote:

>This discussion seems to have spun out of control a little; maybe
>someone might like to directly address the issue this thread was
>intended to explore?

Sorry, we've had far too many discussions of what makes a good
troll. I'm a lot more interested in having one more discussion
on whether "sport" martial arts can be effective...

and drain deez nuts

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Aug 22, 2002, 1:34:45 PM8/22/02
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>Oh yeah?
>Well what Trav lacks in maturity he makes up in....uh...
>help me out here, trav.
>
>
>Gi

Penis size.

Trav

and drain deez nuts

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Aug 22, 2002, 1:35:44 PM8/22/02
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>come on Trav, you would fuck anyone in the ass for free. Sorry,
>though, you're not my type. If I ever did consider sex with a man, it
>sure wouldn't be with an egomaniacal faggot like you.
>
>Hal

You couldn't GET a guy that looks as good as me, hal, if you walked around
naked with $50 taped to your ass.

Trav

Breaking Bottles at Yahoo . US_TLD

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Aug 22, 2002, 11:20:10 PM8/22/02
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Your article has vexed and confuesd me since I first read it. If I
enjoy BJJ, does that make me a homosexual? I was SO angry that you
brought it up. I think I've sorted it out, now. If you wear a gi,
then you are OK - you're all covered up and everything is OK. It's
not like football, where all those big, sweaty men grab onto each
other' tight clothes and try to land on top of each other. That's why
I like to wear a gi, because as long as I wear one, I will not turn
into a homosexual like Gi or Travis.

Chris Johnson

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Aug 22, 2002, 11:54:54 PM8/22/02
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But what about those aikido and iaido students...male students...
who wear hakama, which is a pleated skirt?

My iaido instructor explained that to me this way:

"We can wear skirts for the same reason that Scottish men
wear kilts: because we all know how to fight and we have big, sharp
swords. Nobody dares make fun of us or we'll pound them to a pulp
and then cut them into little quivering chunks!"


I sort of liked that explanation. But I think that if the
classes also required men to wear bras, I'd be NOT taking the
classes. There are limits!


CJ

Incidentally, there is another reason why Scottish men wear
kilts: Because when you've got both hands full of frightened
sheep, you can't spare a hand for your zipper!

:)

Batman

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Aug 22, 2002, 11:47:09 PM8/22/02
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trav...@aol.cominyrface (and drain deez nuts) wrote in
<20020822133445...@mb-mq.aol.com>:

>>Oh yeah?
>>Well what Trav lacks in maturity he makes up in....uh...
>>help me out here, trav.
>>
>>Gi

gayness

>Penis size.

No, the penis in your ass does not count.


-jeff (IH)

Batman

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Aug 22, 2002, 11:46:02 PM8/22/02
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mcwe...@cs.cmu.edu (Matthew Weigel) wrote in
<ak2oum$4r$1...@cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu>:

>Kirk Lawson <NO_lklaw...@heapy.com.SPAMSUX> wrote:
>
>>It's interesting the way programmers and tech people tend to take an
>>adversarial "role" "against" the code/hardware, personifying the
>>inanimate tech and abstract code.

interesting. I'm 'improving' some VB code now. Maybe I'll do better if i
goto war with the sunbitch. Thanks for the tip.

>But it's not personifying it. That shit was written by someone,
>or someones, and it is against the consensual stupidity of that
>group against which I am struggling. Considering the boundless
>nature of stupidity, it is *always* refreshing to not be beaten
>by it.

What about when you are debugging your own code?

-jeff (IH)

Batman

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Aug 22, 2002, 11:53:06 PM8/22/02
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toddfl...@eircom.net (Todd Fletcher) wrote in
<2fc0ec20.02082...@posting.google.com>:

>This discussion seems to have spun out of control a little; maybe
>someone might like to directly address the issue this thread was
>intended to explore?

Whats left to say? Of course BJJ is littered with fags. If you can watch
vitor belfort fight Ken shamrock (I dont care if they never fought, its an
example, i just used the names of the first 2 queer grapplers i cold think of)
without your gaydar going off ... you need to have that thing serviced.


-jeff (IH)

Matthew Weigel

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Aug 23, 2002, 1:11:04 AM8/23/02
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Batman <bat...@batcave.edu> wrote:

>What about when you are debugging your own code?

A co-worker of mine has a sign that says "bang head here for
service." I visit his office.

Todd Fletcher

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Aug 23, 2002, 5:51:39 AM8/23/02
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mcwe...@cs.cmu.edu (Matthew Weigel) wrote in message news:<ak3163$20i$1...@cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu>...

>
> Sorry, we've had far too many discussions of what makes a good
> troll. I'm a lot more interested in having one more discussion
> on whether "sport" martial arts can be effective...

Matthew, it seems to me that your fear of acknowledging a difficult
subject is what causes you to respond this way - I had no idea what a
troll *was* until someone else in this thread labelled me as such. I
can't help thinking that the reason this 'discussion' has evolved into
a meaningless tirade of irrelevant humor has a great deal to do with
the uncomfortable chime of truth sounded out by my original message.
If proof is required to authenticate my statements, just ask.

I realise that mine is a difficult subject to broach, but that's
precisely why I took the time to articulate it. My only goal is to
increase the breath of divergent knowledge within this group - nothing
more, nothing less.

and drain deez nuts

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Aug 23, 2002, 11:10:16 AM8/23/02
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>No, the penis in your ass does not count.

I keep a spare around in case I want to DP your girlfriend and I can't find a
bum off the street.

Trav

and drain deez nuts

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Aug 23, 2002, 11:11:28 AM8/23/02
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>an
>example, i just used the names of the first 2 queer grapplers i cold think
>of)
>without your gaydar going off ... you need to have that thing serviced.
>

And you'll volunteer to service all those guys, won't you?

Trav

Matthew Weigel

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Aug 23, 2002, 11:34:33 AM8/23/02
to
Todd Fletcher <toddfl...@eircom.net> wrote:

>a meaningless tirade of irrelevant humor has a great deal to do with
>the uncomfortable chime of truth sounded out by my original message.

Heh.

Well, you know me, apparently fascinated with Brad Pitt...

Kirk Lawson

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Aug 23, 2002, 2:39:49 PM8/23/02
to
Todd Fletcher wrote:
> My only goal is to
> increase the breath of divergent knowledge within this group - nothing
> more, nothing less.

Color me skeptical.

Matthew Weigel

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Aug 23, 2002, 3:06:30 PM8/23/02
to
Kirk Lawson <NO_lklaw...@heapy.com.SPAMSUX> wrote:

>Color me skeptical.

That's not in the box of crayons they let me have; can you give
me some other options?

(boy it's going to be tedious getting the wax to stick to my
monitor...)

Kirk Lawson

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Aug 23, 2002, 4:25:47 PM8/23/02
to
Matthew Weigel wrote:
>
> Kirk Lawson <NO_lklaw...@heapy.com.SPAMSUX> wrote:
>
> >Color me skeptical.
>
> That's not in the box of crayons they let me have; can you give
> me some other options?

Not until you get a kid and need a coloring book

>
> (boy it's going to be tedious getting the wax to stick to my
> monitor...)

But the White-Out still works, right?

Matthew Weigel

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Aug 23, 2002, 4:38:27 PM8/23/02
to
Kirk Lawson <NO_lklaw...@heapy.com.SPAMSUX> wrote:

>But the White-Out still works, right?

Oh yeah - I get in a lot less flamewars now that I can just
white-out the parts of other peoples' posts that I don't like
;-)

Kirk Lawson

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Aug 23, 2002, 5:15:53 PM8/23/02
to

Matthew Weigel wrote:
>
> Kirk Lawson <NO_lklaw...@heapy.com.SPAMSUX> wrote:
>
> >But the White-Out still works, right?
>
> Oh yeah - I get in a lot less flamewars now that I can just
> white-out the parts of other peoples' posts that I don't like
> ;-)

You mean you can use it for Flame Wars too?! Wow! And here all this
time I've just been correcting spelling. "How 3 dimensional of me."
(paraphrase, I know...)

@hotmail.com.invalid Eric D. Berge

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Aug 23, 2002, 5:38:30 PM8/23/02
to
On Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:39:49 -0400, Kirk Lawson
<NO_lklaw...@heapy.com.SPAMSUX> wrote:

>Todd Fletcher wrote:
>> My only goal is to
>> increase the breath of divergent knowledge within this group - nothing
>> more, nothing less.
>
>Color me skeptical.

Color me pink.

Logan

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Aug 23, 2002, 7:14:05 PM8/23/02
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bat...@batcave.edu (Batman) wrote in message news:<B8028D96BD4619E4.74898EF6...@lp.airnews.net>...

BIG HIT! It's always interesting to see the back and forth of highschoolers.

Batman

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Aug 24, 2002, 1:38:59 AM8/24/02
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Chris Johnson <cmjo...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in
<3D65AF9E...@cfl.rr.com>:

>I sort of liked that explanation. But I think that if the
>classes also required men to wear bras, I'd be NOT taking the
>classes. There are limits!

Notice that he 'THINKS' he'd drop the classes. Sounds kinda unsure to me.

>Incidentally, there is another reason why Scottish men wear
>kilts: Because when you've got both hands full of frightened
>sheep, you can't spare a hand for your zipper!

thas a good one. Probably older than bestiality itself, but new to me anyway.


-jeff (IH)

Batman

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Aug 24, 2002, 1:43:14 AM8/24/02
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Eric D. Berge <eric_berge @ hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in
<cqadmu0baqlup96mq...@4ax.com>:

Well, the fact that he's following up, with the same name, pretty much defies
the nature of a troll, does it not?

So cut him some slack. Or do you think they're not teaching trolls the basics
anymore? Anyone got that link handy on how to be a good troll? Perhaps its
time to train a new generation.

>Color me pink.

As long as we're choosing our colors ... i wanna be green. Like Yoda.


-jeff (IH)

Matthew Weigel

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Aug 24, 2002, 12:37:58 PM8/24/02
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Batman <bat...@batcave.edu> wrote:

>Well, the fact that he's following up, with the same name,
>pretty much defies the nature of a troll, does it not?

Nah; a lot of trolls like to 'tend' the flames.

Steve Gombosi

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Aug 25, 2002, 12:03:08 PM8/25/02
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In article <RyV89.12282$8om1....@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
Rob Dueck <du...@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>HAL??? I would figure you would take a princess like Gou first...not a tramp
>like Hal

You're just jealous because Trav wouldn't have coffee with you, either.

Steve

Todd Fletcher

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Aug 25, 2002, 12:26:03 PM8/25/02
to
mcwe...@cs.cmu.edu (Matthew Weigel) wrote in message news:<ak8cp6$9t2$1...@cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu>...


> Nah; a lot of trolls like to 'tend' the flames.

How extraordinary; this sort of attitudinal myopia seems to suggest
that messages containing any seed of variant observation be slated for
ridicule regardless of their content, irrespective of their individual
merit. The motivation behind my publishing the micro-essay to which
this thread refers(assuming anybody remembers it at this stage) was,
and still remains, merely an attempt to articulate a concept which all
acknowledge but few discuss, and to do so with a touch more erudition
than the myriad rabble rousers who have, elsewhere, voiced much the
same opinion but in coarser, more inflammatory (and thus, redundant)
language.

That being said, I'm beginning to believe my post might have elicited
a more praiseworthy set of ripostes had I simply written something
like, 'BJJ stands for Blow Jobs and Jerk Offs', the siren cry of the
deliberate troll. Was it really too much to expect that someone might
simply respond to my post by saying, 'Yes, I agree, because...' or
'No, you're mistaken because...'?

Unfortunately, the forty-nine articles which precede this one would
seem to say that it was.

On a lighter note, there's an excellent feature on being/constructing
a first-rate troll at the following location (I had to look it up
since my fellow Groupmates keep accusing me of being one myself):

http://www.kjartan.org/humor/troll-faq.html

The sad thing is that, according to its author, a good troll post's
'goal is not to win an argument, rather it is to provoke a futile one
that runs forever.'

By this criteria, it seems that I may have created precisely that
which I disdain the most. Sheesh!

Matthew Weigel

unread,
Aug 25, 2002, 1:31:15 PM8/25/02
to
Todd Fletcher <toddfl...@eircom.net> wrote:

>ridicule regardless of their content, irrespective of their individual
>merit.

By an unknown poster on its first post, acting as if it knows
the newsgroup, from a free email provider; gee, whodathunk.

>acknowledge but few discuss, and to do so with a touch more erudition

I give you an F for using the word "erudition."

Sort of like going in for a job at a bookstore and calling
yourself a bibliophile; you'll never be believed.

>same opinion but in coarser, more inflammatory (and thus, redundant)

Sorry, pal, you can't play the parenthetical game either.

>like, 'BJJ stands for Blow Jobs and Jerk Offs', the siren cry of the
>deliberate troll.

Oh good: *now* you remember your previous posts to the ng...

>By this criteria, it seems that I may have created precisely that
>which I disdain the most. Sheesh!

Oh no! Who could have foreseen this!?!?

Gichoke

unread,
Aug 25, 2002, 9:30:57 PM8/25/02
to
>rom: toddfl...@eircom.net

>
>> Nah; a lot of trolls like to 'tend' the flames.
>
>How extraordinary; this sort of attitudinal myopia seems to suggest
>that messages containing any seed of variant observation be slated for
>ridicule regardless of their content, irrespective of their individual
>merit. The motivation behind my publishing the micro-essay to which
>this thread refers(assuming anybody remembers it at this stage) was,
>and still remains, merely an attempt to articulate a concept which all
>acknowledge but few discuss

See theres your problem.
Don't "atriculate" your ideas.
RMA is just like real life.If you try to articulate something
important...morons will shout you down.
So you just gotta learn to shout louder than the morons.

> and to do so with a touch more erudition
>than the myriad rabble rousers

I think I just came up with the name of my vale tudo team.
The Myriad Rabble Rousers!
The shirt will show a gorilla in a gi saying..
"WE GOT ATTITUDINAL MYOPIA!"
"BEATCH!"

>That being said, I'm beginning to believe my post might have elicited
>a more praiseworthy set of ripostes

In bizzarro worlds RMA you just won a nobel prize in literature for your
micro-essay.

>BJJ stands for Blow Jobs and Jerk Offs', the siren cry of the
>deliberate troll. Was it really too much to expect that someone might
>simply respond to my post by saying, 'Yes, I agree, because...' or
>'No, you're mistaken because...'?

Apparently.

>nfortunately, the forty-nine articles which precede this one would
>seem to say that it was.

OH, it was a rhetorical question.

>
>http://www.kjartan.org/humor/troll-faq.html
>
>The sad thing is that, according to its author, a good troll post's
>'goal is not to win an argument, rather it is to provoke a futile one
>that runs forever.'

That is whitebelt troll shit.
A TRUE troll steps in... and with that ONE post, he not only creates an
absurdly long running thread spirals out in a *myriad* of tangents, but it
leads to challenge matches and somebody brings up hitler.

>By this criteria, it seems that I may have created precisely that
>which I disdain the most.

Yeah, yo're like Baron Frankenstein!

Gi

Todd Fletcher

unread,
Aug 26, 2002, 2:09:28 PM8/26/02
to
gic...@aol.com (Gichoke) wrote in message news:<20020825213057...@mb-da.aol.com>...


> RMA is just like real life.If you try to articulate something
> important...morons will shout you down.
> So you just gotta learn to shout louder than the morons.

Can I borrow your megaphone?

> I think I just came up with the name of my vale tudo team.
> The Myriad Rabble Rousers!
> The shirt will show a gorilla in a gi saying..
> "WE GOT ATTITUDINAL MYOPIA!"

Yes - your opponents would never see that one coming.

> In bizzarro worlds RMA you just won a nobel prize in literature for your
> micro-essay.

Darn; I was hoping for a posthumous award after the gaybashers brain
me, having discovered the dark, dank, unlovely cave in which I reside,
composing incendiary troll posts for my own preternatural amusement.

> >BJJ stands for Blow Jobs and Jerk Offs', the siren cry of the
> >deliberate troll. Was it really too much to expect that someone might
> >simply respond to my post by saying, 'Yes, I agree, because...' or
> >'No, you're mistaken because...'?
>
> Apparently.
>

> >Unfortunately, the forty-nine articles which precede this one would


> >seem to say that it was.
>
> OH, it was a rhetorical question.

Aren't they just the best?

> >http://www.kjartan.org/humor/troll-faq.html
> >
> >The sad thing is that, according to its author, a good troll post's
> >'goal is not to win an argument, rather it is to provoke a futile one
> >that runs forever.'
>
> That is whitebelt troll shit.
> A TRUE troll steps in... and with that ONE post, he not only creates an
> absurdly long running thread spirals out in a *myriad* of tangents, but it
> leads to challenge matches and somebody brings up hitler.

All right then, if I must: Hitler was a gay BJJ philosopher; I would
appreciate *everyone's* opinion on this...

> >By this criteria, it seems that I may have created precisely that
> >which I disdain the most.
>
> Yeah, yo're like Baron Frankenstein!

Or Joan of Arc, dying in flames for the expression of unpopular views.

Todd Fletcher

unread,
Aug 26, 2002, 2:24:21 PM8/26/02
to
mcwe...@cs.cmu.edu (Matthew Weigel) wrote in message news:<akb493$sh1$1...@cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu>...

> Todd Fletcher <toddfl...@eircom.net> wrote:
>
> >ridicule regardless of their content, irrespective of their individual
> >merit.
>
> By an unknown poster on its first post, acting as if it knows
> the newsgroup, from a free email provider; gee, whodathunk.

So you discredit posters because they're new, have taken some time to
grow familiar with the group they intend to engage with, and utilise a
service aimed at helping the common man use the net. Nice.

> >acknowledge but few discuss, and to do so with a touch more erudition
>
> I give you an F for using the word "erudition."

I give you a slap because it is fun.

> Sort of like going in for a job at a bookstore and calling
> yourself a bibliophile; you'll never be believed.

Bibliophiles can't help being what they are; it's a sickness, not a
lifestyle. Besides, I find them erudite.

> >same opinion but in coarser, more inflammatory (and thus, redundant)
>
> Sorry, pal, you can't play the parenthetical game either.

() [] {}.

You were saying?



> >like, 'BJJ stands for Blow Jobs and Jerk Offs', the siren cry of the
> >deliberate troll.
>
> Oh good: *now* you remember your previous posts to the ng...

I was angry and impetuous back then. Now, I am merely informative. And
somewhat erudite.

> >By this criteria, it seems that I may have created precisely that
> >which I disdain the most. Sheesh!
>
> Oh no! Who could have foreseen this!?!?

A fortune teller, or Danielle Steele.

@hotmail.com.invalid Eric D. Berge

unread,
Aug 26, 2002, 2:33:22 PM8/26/02
to

Way I heard it was:

Q: "Why do Scotsmen wear kilts?"

A: "Because sheep can hear zippers at 100yds."

In any case, it's not a new joke.

YoJimbo

unread,
Aug 26, 2002, 2:06:00 PM8/26/02
to
In article <2fc0ec20.0208...@posting.google.com>, toddfl...@eircom.net says...

>
>mcwe...@cs.cmu.edu (Matthew Weigel) wrote in message
news:<ak8cp6$9t2$1...@cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu>...
>
>> Nah; a lot of trolls like to 'tend' the flames.
>
>How extraordinary; this sort of attitudinal myopia seems to suggest
>that messages containing any seed of variant observation be slated for
>ridicule regardless of their content, irrespective of their individual
>merit.

Hey, not me, man. I've noticed the homoerotic tendencies of grapplers
too, guys like Chokey and Trav. So when I read your insightful commentary
on homoerotic grappling, I didn't think "troll" or "ridicule"; on the
contrary, I thought, "one of RMA's most insightful psychologists".

And you know what? It's okay, guys like Trav and Gi should come out of
the closet, IMO. We don't think any less of
them for it. We're in the 2000s now, dudes, and need to be more
sensitive to minority groups.
JS

Kirk Lawson

unread,
Aug 26, 2002, 3:20:22 PM8/26/02
to
Gichoke wrote:

> Yeah, yo're like Baron Frankenstein!

He studies Natural Philosophy?

GODSTAR

unread,
Aug 26, 2002, 6:50:06 PM8/26/02
to
Chris Johnson <cmjo...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message news:<3D6298DE...@cfl.rr.com>...
> Logan wrote:
> >
> > fu...@nospamearthlink.net wrote in message news:<3d61ff6f...@news.verizon.net>...
> > > On 20 Aug 2002 01:33:43 -0700, toddfl...@eircom.net (Todd Fletcher)
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > [troll snippage]
> > >
> > >
> > > Your post is gay.
> >
> > Not that there's anything wrong with that.

> OF COURSE THERE IS!

> (Insert anti-homosexual rant here, if you care to.)

Main thing is all these homo's think that if they insert their
anti-gay rants into some shithole newsgroup that we'll think they're
straight? It aint like that the smeller's the fella...

> CJ

> My ass is an exit, not an entrance. Understand that and
> we'll have no problems.

Hye if they're really good at BJJ how are you going to stop them? And
what if they train with you as foreplay and go home and shoot puppies
on the bathroom wall? -Its safe sex, it is after all the days of AIds

> "Silly faggot, dicks are for chicks!"

Batman

unread,
Aug 26, 2002, 11:21:03 PM8/26/02
to
toddfl...@eircom.net (Todd Fletcher) wrote in
<2fc0ec20.02082...@posting.google.com>:

>Darn; I was hoping for a posthumous award after the gaybashers brain
>me, having discovered the dark, dank, unlovely cave in which I reside,
>composing incendiary troll posts for my own preternatural amusement.
>

>All right then, if I must: Hitler was a gay BJJ philosopher; I would
>appreciate *everyone's* opinion on this...
>

Hi Ke ..... nah, it couldnt be. Could it?


-jeff (IH)

Gichoke

unread,
Aug 27, 2002, 12:24:15 AM8/27/02
to
>Grappling Homoerotic Underpinnings

>
>Hey, not me, man. I've noticed the homoerotic tendencies of grapplers
>too, guys like Chokey and Trav. So when I read your insightful commentary
>on homoerotic grappling, I didn't think "troll" or "ridicule"; on the
>contrary, I thought, "one of RMA's most insightful psychologists".
>
>And you know what? It's okay, guys like Trav and Gi should come out of
>the closet, IMO. We don't think any less of
>them for it. We're in the 2000s now, dudes, and need to be more
>sensitive to minority groups.
>JS

"sensitive to minorities"?
Sounds like queer talk to me.

Do I *look* gay to you?
http://www.sssfighting.com/images/DSC01477.JPG

Gi

Matthew Weigel

unread,
Aug 27, 2002, 12:30:13 AM8/27/02
to
Batman <bat...@batcave.edu> wrote:

>Hi Ke ..... nah, it couldnt be. Could it?

Had me wonderin' too.

Andy

unread,
Aug 27, 2002, 1:03:34 AM8/27/02
to

"Gichoke" <gic...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020827002415...@mb-mr.aol.com...

yes


Kirk Lawson

unread,
Aug 27, 2002, 9:03:53 AM8/27/02
to

No doubt he's around *somewhere*. Whether or not as "Todd" we can't say
yet.

Jeremy Graham

unread,
Aug 27, 2002, 9:25:15 AM8/27/02
to
Matthew Weigel wrote:
> Batman <bat...@batcave.edu> wrote:
>
>
>>Hi Ke ..... nah, it couldnt be. Could it?
>
>
> Had me wonderin' too.

And me three.

JG