Ninjutsu - Which is REAL Ninjutsu?
Shinobi No Mono
What is REAL Ninjutsu?
That taught in classes for the only purpose of making money, using
modified Karate techniques, which most "Ninjutsu Classes"
use. Those "styles" taught to anyone, that has the money for
the classes. Which usually are only taught Taijutsu techniques
and nothing more.
OR
Those secret styles taught to those who are hand picked by still,
existing ninja clans. Ones that have not alliterative motive,
of using their ancient knowledge to gain wealth. Ninja that
do not need certificates, or public acknowledgment to know
what they are.
Wild Bill
1. This sounds like an Ashida Kim ad.
2. The so called Ninja clans are still around, they are families that
claim descent from Iga or Koga region family systems. There are no Koga
ninpo/ shinobi/ninjutsu ryu ha in existence, although there were , up to
the early 1960s. Like the Iga ryu ha, the Koga ryu were gradually merged
as interest in the various ryu declined. The last Koga soke died in the
early 1960s in a car crash with all 3 , yes three, of his disciples,
including the next soke designate.
I know about this, because I had a penpal in Japan who sent me the
editorial from a Japanese newspaper with translation and pictures of the
densho on display. (if you don't know what densho are, you certainly are
not informed enough to be making comments on Japanese koryu)
The editorial was bemoaning the loss of :"yet another piece of [our]
culture" due to neglect and disinterest on the part of young Japanese who
only want to study competition and not preserve the ancient koryu. There
were NO senior students of ANY Koga arts remaining alive. The few Iga
arts were contained in the Toda and Kuki family arts, as well as one ryu
taught among the ryu ha of the Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto ryu (which
the head sensei , R.Otake, prefers not to talk much about (ninpo was not
considered a very high class art) , and another Iga branch was contained
in one ryu of the Daito ryu aikijutsu family of arts.
GOshin Karatedo also has some ninpo ryu based techniques taught through
Marakami sensei's branch of the Goshin ryu aikijutsu. Again , these
resemble those among the Daito ryu, and are probably most similar to the
Gyokko ryu and Takagi Yoshin ryu atemi waza of the Toda family
traditions.
Ashida Kim (Actually Chris Hunter- took his girlfriend's Korean family
name and appended a common Japanese surname to it. As if any Korean would
accept a Japanese surname and vice versa. Korea and Japan are not far
from the memories of WW2, and neither society has a lot of love for the
other.) claims to teach Koga ninjutsu, as does Ron Duncan. I don't make
any statement on the martial abilities of either, and don't care. They
are not teaching Koga ryu , period. In fact, I spoke to a former SOuth
African Bujinkan member who told me the formere head instructor of Kim's
much ballyhooed Black Dragon Fighting Society publically admitted that
they taught a mixture of TKD and Kung fu and called it Koga ryu ninjutsu.
The individual in question is no longer affiliated with the BDs, and
decided to train with a student of shihan Darone Navone in real ninpo.
The simple fact is that the ninpo clans were obsessive about keeping
track of their lineage. There were densho for every art, both ninpo and
mainstream family arts that were incorporated into the families related
to and associated with the "clans" of the Iga and Koga regions.
Unless a so called instructor can produce densho for a koga ryu, which
they will not be able to do, they are lying, and don't come from a
tradition with the lineage and training to teach either koga or Iga
ninpo.
That is not to say they are not teaching some effective fighting form,
but it is not ninpo, and there is a baseline breach of ethical behavior
in their misreprenting themselves in that way. If what they teach is
legit then it should stand on its own merits.
The Daito ryu does not give menkyo in any ninpo related art, not does, so
far as I know, the Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto ryu. The only documented
and legitimate ninpo lineage arts are found in the lineage of Toshitsuge
Takematsu, via the Toda and Kuki family arts. Presently, only three lines
can legitimately claim descent from the ninja clans
Bujinkan - soke Masaaki Hatsumi
Gembukan- soke Shoto Tanemura
Jinenkan- soke Fumio Manaka.
Unless you are studying under one of these , or a student of theirs, you
are not studying a ninpo lineage art. Period.
Thanks,
WIld Bill
Shinobi No Mono
I have been studying my entire life, ever since I was 5. But
of course you know all about everything, even arts that no one
but a select groups know. Just because they/we don't go out
and publicize everything does not mean we do not exist.
Remember Ninja practice stealth, and the great stealth is when
people are fool, especially so called experts, into believing
that we never existed.
PERIOD.
LionPryde
Shinobi No Mono:
Why did you ask the question "Which Ninjutsu is real?" if you already had an
answer? No matter how anyone answers the question you asked I have a feeling
that you would of answered with the same statement:
>I have been studying my entire life, ever since I was 5. But
>of course you know all about everything, even arts that no one
>but a select groups know. Just because they/we don't go out
>and publicize everything does not mean we do not exist. ect,ect,ect....
If no one knows that your group exists...then way have you taken it upon
yourself to tell the world?...on a newsgroup no less too. Unless you can prove
your legitimacy then you are another Ashida Kim and you started this subject
just to argue with people.
PERIOD.
Roy A.E. Hodges
LionPryde wrote:
> If no one knows that your group exists...then way have you taken it upon
> yourself to tell the world?...on a newsgroup no less too. Unless you can prove
> your legitimacy then you are another Ashida Kim and you started this subject
> just to argue with people.
This Shinobi No Mono must admit that he sounded pretty confusing. Why advertise
ones existence; if the power comes from not knowing that these groups exist in the
first place? Not very wise.
yes, I'm sure that certain martial arts survived TIME and society and still exist
today. IMHO, it is up to me to find them and practice with them instead of them
comming to me. It keeps those at bay who seek to destroy or "steal" an art. By
destruction, I also mean destroying the art by desensitising the public about it.
Or... the Shinobi No Mono could be feeding Ego... or strive to be known; a human
instinct.
-rh-
TKeeline1
>The few Iga
>arts were contained in the Toda and Kuki family arts, as well as one ryu
>taught among the ryu ha of the Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto ryu
You forgot that Takagi Yoshin Ryu was passed by Ishitani Matsutaro Takekage.
Or was it Mizu Tadafusa? I'm confusing myself. Now all I remember is that
Takamatsu had 3 teachers (Shinryuken Masamitsu Toda, Mizu Tadafusa, and
Ishitani Matsutaro Takekage).
Also SKH says in one of his books that he went to the Katori Shinto Ryu dojo
and that they told him that their style had no ninjutsu and would be offended
that someone would think that they did. I don't know about this though, I just
read it in one of his books (The fourth Ohare one maybe?).
Please anyone e-mail me if any of the information above is incorrect.
Tom
Ninth Kyu
at the Missouri Bujinkan Dojo
Under the direction of Shidoshi Ken Harding, Seventh Dan
SYKE1
>Subject: Re: Ninjutsu - Which is REAL Ninjutsu?
>From: lion...@aol.com (LionPryde)
>Date: Fri, Dec 26, 1997 18:25 EST
>Message-id: <19971226232...@ladder02.news.aol.com>
>
>Shinobi No Mono:
>
> Why did you ask the question "Which Ninjutsu is real?" if you already had
>an
>answer? No matter how anyone answers the question you asked I have a feeling
>that you would of answered with the same statement:
>
>>I have been studying my entire life, ever since I was 5. But
>>of course you know all about everything, even arts that no one
>>but a select groups know. Just because they/we don't go out
>>and publicize everything does not mean we do not exist. ect,ect,ect....
>
>yourself to tell the world?...on a newsgroup no less too. Unless you can
>prove
>your legitimacy then you are another Ashida Kim and you started this subject
>just to argue with people.
>
>
>
The fact is Troll boy...DOOHHH!, you screwed up...many have been the trolls
trying to malign the art of Ninpo and I've seen better tries than yours...
Ninpo as truly taught comes from the Bujinkan, Genbukan or Jinenkan.....if the
Koga folks out there have a reputable organization as well, please feel free to
name yourselves as well...REAL ninjutsu comes from them, not Ashida Kim or
wankers like you.....
LionPryde
SYKE1:
Are you replying to me (LionPryde) or to "Shinobi No Mono".
I am in the Bujinkan...so why would I try to de-face ninpo?
I was saying, by the wording , that Ashida Kim is the fraud...you can tell just
by looking at his books. In one book the section of "important terms to know"
are Chinese words not Japanese.
The whole secret thing that SNM (that doesn't sound right)...Shinobi No Mono
was spouting wreaked of the Black Dragon Fighting Society crap. I think Shinobi
has seen one to many movies.
Don't mean to flame...just standing my ground (earth) :)
SAJER97786
>You forgot that Takagi Yoshin Ryu was passed by Ishitani Matsutaro Takekage.
Also, there is a lineage from The saito Family, Who now resides in Hawaii. I
can tell you that this is a very interesting art, from what I have read. No
connection with the others.
Sajer
Shinobi
Shinobi No Mono wrote in message <34A4109D...@geocities.com>...
>I have been studying my entire life, ever since I was 5. But
>of course you know all about everything, even arts that no one
>but a select groups know. Just because they/we don't go out
>and publicize everything does not mean we do not exist.
>
>Remember Ninja practice stealth, and the great stealth is when
>people are fool, especially so called experts, into believing
>that we never existed.
>
>PERIOD.
Well put..........
Wild Bill
Not really. The above quote is that of an adolescent mind with no
concept of kyojutsu. Stealth is not the practice of being sneaky, that is
a common skill, and very superficial. The skill of stealth is in the
obvious being questionable, and the questionable being obvious. It is
well demonstrated in other arts than nijutsu, kenjutsu being one. Often
the path to survival is to appear to be one thing, while being another.
Hiding is just hiding. Walking unnoticed as an accepted part of the
surroundings is the art of invisibility. If our friend was truly
interested in being hidden, then he would not have posted in the first
place. He wanted to be noticed. He is deluded, lying, or both.
Which it is , is not important.
I refer this to Kim Taylor, an experienced swordsman. He can probably
tell whether one has ever picked up a sword , much less studied it
formally, by signs non swordsmen would not see.
'nuff said.
Wild Bill
Chuck Easttom
In article <68rdid$dhh$1...@fountain.mindlink.net>, shid...@instructor.net
says...
>
>
>Shinobi No Mono wrote in message <34A4109D...@geocities.com>...
>>I have been studying my entire life, ever since I was 5. But
>>of course you know all about everything, even arts that no one
>>but a select groups know. Just because they/we don't go out
>>and publicize everything does not mean we do not exist.
>>
>>Remember Ninja practice stealth, and the great stealth is when
>>people are fool, especially so called experts, into believing
>>that we never existed.
>>
>>PERIOD.
>
>Well put..........
>
>
I usually try to avoid being offensive but I to be perfectly honest I
have yet to meet a "ninja" who can fight worth a dime.
Wild Bill
actually SEEN Steve Hayes, Greg Kowalski, Jack Hoban, Bud Malmstrom, Bill
Atkins, Phil Legare, Jeff Prather, Dick Severance, Charles Daniel, Otto
Cardew, Ed Sones, Kev Millis, Abey Allen, Mark O'Brien, Fumio Manaka,
Ishizuka, Muramatsu, Oguri, Kan, Kobayashi,Nouguchi,Someya,Nagato,
Shiraeshi,or Nagase senseis, or even Masaaki Hatsumi soke, actually
fight?
I know Kev Millis personally, and I know he trained with Dan Inosanto
before he ever started Bujinkan, and he still trains with him.If Guru Dan
thinks Kev can fight, then besides my own experience at the business end
of his technique, I can pretty safely say I know one "ninja" who kicks
some serious ass.
Greg Kowalski, another shidoshi I know personally , and who trained with
Muramatsu sensei as well as Hatsumi soke, was the only American ever to
captain a Japanese national competition kickboxing team. Another one of
those wimpy ninjas, des neh? The Koreans and Japanese both disagree with
you.
How about shihan Doron Navon? He was head of the Massad Tactical units.
If you think HE can't fight, you should take a little visit to Israel and
tell him so :-) (I want a copy of the video)
Nagato sensei was Japanese national kickboxing champion for several
years, and had a string of dojos in Japan he closed down after meeting
and training for a day with Hatsumi soke. HE was certainly convinced this
ninja could and did kick his ass, and has trained with soke ever since.
WHile I don't agree with a lot of what Steve K Hayes does with his
organization , I have seen him fight, and I would put him up against
almost anyone. Bud Malmstrom, Phil Legare, Jack Hoban, all of these guys
are stone killers, period.
You made a blanket statement about my art, and I am willing to bet you
don't have the foggiest idea who these guys are or what they can do. If
you have any more sense than it appears you have, try dooing some
research and let me know if you still think these guys can't fight. Oh,
yeah, I trained for 25 years in karate , jujutsu, kenjutsu, and
French/Spanish knife fighting (under guys like Chuck Tatum, Glenn PRemru,
Gerald DUrant, Vince CHristiano, and Jean Jaques Devereaux) before I
started training in Bujinkan. I did so because I respected the fighting
ability of my present instructor, Mike Fenster, and his instructor , Kev
Millis, as well as Shihan Phil Legare. Hatsumi soke simply blew me away,
and I still don't grasp most of what he does.
Yours in Budo
WIld Bill
Crumpy
Mike Haught
Crumpy wrote in message <34BD4C...@erols.com>...
>All I have to say is Ultimate Fighting 1. Ninja guy vs. Pat Smith
Wasn't that UFC 2? And wasn't the "NinJitsu" participant a Robert Bussey
student? I understand Mr. Bussey's credentials in Ninpo are questioned by
many.
--
-mwh
R&R Plastics
Crumpy wrote:
>
> All I have to say is Ultimate Fighting 1. Ninja guy vs. Pat Smith
rootless, bastardized system taught by Bob Bussey) and has no connection
to an authentic ryu. Anyone can call himself a "ninja". Actually having
the credentials to link you to one of the few remaining traditions is
another matter entirely.
Why is that so hard to understand? Do you believe everything you hear?
None of the guys that Bill mentioned would even give a damn about
entering the UFC. They've had countless ACTUAL combat experiences, some
in the military, some on the street, so they've proven it for themselves
and those of us who study with them. They don't care if YOU think that
THEY are the BEST.
Aric
Bossk (R)
Crumpy skrev i meddelandet <34BD4C...@erols.com>...
> All I have to say is Ultimate Fighting 1.
> Ninja guy vs. Pat Smith
Now that you said all you have to say, will you shut up for ever more? :)
LionPryde
>I usually try to avoid being offensive but I to be perfectly honest I
>have yet to meet a "ninja" who can fight worth a dime.
>
not a flame.....so don't pick up your flamethrower
Joe Miguel
Chuck Easttom wrote:
> In article <68rdid$dhh$1...@fountain.mindlink.net>, shid...@instructor.net
> says...
> >
> >
> >Shinobi No Mono wrote in message <34A4109D...@geocities.com>...
> >>I have been studying my entire life, ever since I was 5. But
> >>of course you know all about everything, even arts that no one
> >>but a select groups know. Just because they/we don't go out
> >>and publicize everything does not mean we do not exist.
> >>
> >>Remember Ninja practice stealth, and the great stealth is when
> >>people are fool, especially so called experts, into believing
> >>that we never existed.
> >>
> >>PERIOD.
> >
> >Well put..........
> >
> >
>
> I usually try to avoid being offensive but I to be perfectly honest I
> have yet to meet a "ninja" who can fight worth a dime.
I also usually try to avoid being offensive but to be perfectly honest I
have to met a "samari" who can fight worth a nickle.
That's because there are no ninjas you dope, there is not that kind of class
system in japan any longer.
Joe Miguel
Crumpy wrote:
> blah blah blah blah
> All I have to say is Ultimate Fighting 1. Ninja guy vs. Pat Smith
Since I have done ninjutisu, and since I have also seen UFC 1, I can tell you
that guy was not doing ninjutisu.
LionPryde
>All I have to say is Ultimate Fighting 1. Ninja guy vs. Pat Smith
>
Don't compare someone who claims to be a Ninja agains people who study the
art for real. That dumb ass' teacher was Robert Bussey....He doesn't know crap.
Bussey quit his training with a ligitimate teacher long ago, he didn't study
for more than a year or so anyway. Also Bussey teaches a mix of different arts
and passes it off as Ninjutsu....but it isn't anything close. If you watch that
UFC again you will notice that the "ninja" is on his back as Smith comes in and
jumps on top of him. The "ninja" could have won that fight right then with a
WHITE BELT technique! In the Bujinkan you learn this on the 2nd day. But Smith
would have suffered an inverted knee.
So....I agree with Wild Bill.....you need to check your facts and do more
research before making statements that are questionable at best.
Ninpo Ikkan,
Bruce
LEESENSEI
>All I have to say is Ultimate Fighting 1. Ninja guy vs. Pat Smith
Well, first I have to say that that logig is flawed in several ways. First is
that you somehow think that watching the UFC is in any way indicative of real
fighting skills.
second, is that the person that you are referring to was certainly NOT trained
in traditional Japanese Ninjutsu, and thus was not representative of ninjutsu
at all.
third, if we take your lofgic that someone calling themselves a practioner of
an art and losing in the UFC somehow means that the art is no good, then we
would have to say that Karate, kung-fu, Sumo, Kick boxing, Jujutsu,wrestling,
boxing, and others are all arts in which no one can fight. Some one
representing all of these arts has lost in the UFC and quite a few others.
I think it is truly tragic that there are people like yourself who have such
litle contact with reality that you could make such comments based of of
something that you saw in a circus like the UFC.
Like any art, there are people that are studying Ninjutsu that are great
fighters, and there are people that are studying the art that are not. I think
that wild Bill gave a good list of some of the people that represent Ninjutsu
that you definitely would not ever want to mess with. The people that he
mentioned are profesionals and some of the finest martial artists, and more
importantly, gentlemen in the world. None of these people would waste their
time with macho sport shenanigans such as that found in the UFC. It is not
what any of us train for or care about. But i'll tell you, if the sh*t ever
hits the fan and their is a real world dangerous situation, then I would
certainly want any of the people like Bill mentioned at my side.
Take care,
Lee Drew
Birmingham Bujinkan Dojo
LionPryde
well put Mr. Drew
Gryphon
> I usually try to avoid being offensive but I to be perfectly honest I
> have yet to meet a "ninja" who can fight worth a dime.
There's a good reason for that. A "ninja" is an assassin, not a martial
artist, or even really a fighter. The ninjustu practitioners of feudal
Japan often learned a variant of Shotokan, but by-and-large preferred to
avoid fighting so that they would remain invisible. Why bother beating
the living crap out of a shogun, for instance, when you can penetrate
his castle, pose as one of his servants, and slit his throat while he
sleeps? This is the way the ninja actually operated, since they could
disappear the next day, leaving everyone wondering what happened.
Ryan "The Gryphon" Kelly
ATA Chil Geup (decided)
Gentleman Scholar
http://www.angelfire.com/sd/kilroy
Please Email me AND post if you wish to respond.
Steve Godfrey
Gryphon wrote in message <34C080...@nvc.net>...
>> I usually try to avoid being offensive but I to be perfectly honest I
>> have yet to meet a "ninja" who can fight worth a dime.
>
>There's a good reason for that. A "ninja" is an assassin, not a martial
artist, or even really a fighter.
This is true enough.
The ninjustu practitioners of feudal Japan often learned a variant of
Shotokan,
Who told you this. Shotokan wasnt around untill the 1900s. And its origins
are in Okinawa. In feudal Japan the Japanese would have nothing to do with
anything from Okinawa. And Shotokan is far from teaching assassinations.
Steve Godfrey
Jiro Shutendo
Ninjutsu has nothing to do with assassins. I suggest you go read some of
Hatsumi Sensei's books. Ninjutsu has been around for longer then most
japnaese martial arts. Most japanese martial arts have only been around for
100 yrs. Also Bujinkan ninjutsu is made up from different schools so its
really not only one fighting style. there is lot more to it then you read in
comics or see on tv
Dirk Bruere
Just picked up this thread, but generally Ninjutsu here is regarded as
the equivalent of civil war re-enactments ie an outdated, reconstructed
set of techniques.
The modern equivalent today of Ninjutsu practice and practitioners would
be Special Forces such as SAS, SEALs etc and their terrorist
counterparts. No doubt Carlos 'the Jackal' now on trial in France for
numerous spectacular and lethal international terrorist offences would
rate as a Grandmaster.
Dirk
Jiro Shutendo
You people really have no idea what ninjutsu is all about. Ninjutsu is no
where near outdated it is always changing with the times. Anyone interested
in ninjutsu should visit this page this is one of the best on the web
http://www.algonet.se/~helmet/. Hear you can learn what real ninjutsu is
about and how it is still thriving today
Dirk Bruere <"artemis"@xkbnet.co.uk> wrote in message
<69tkmf$2...@news5-gui.server.cableol.net>...
j w
"Before you edit the Bill of Rights,the authors would like to have a
word with you"
Dirk Bruere
Jiro Shutendo wrote:
>
> You people really have no idea what ninjutsu is all about. Ninjutsu is no
> where near outdated it is always changing with the times. Anyone interested
> in ninjutsu should visit this page this is one of the best on the web
> http://www.algonet.se/~helmet/. Hear you can learn what real ninjutsu is
> about and how it is still thriving today
>
seem to be a lack of training in improvised and standard munitions,
covert surveillance, foreign weapons, resistance to interrogation
techniques, tactical questioning, forged document acquisition,
battlefield linguistics and E&E. To mention only a few that I would
assume up-to-date Ninjutsu would teach. But what do I know?
Dirk
Joe Miguel
Jiro Shutendo wrote:
Just so you all know, I do practice ninjutisu but to make a truely accurate
decision on history or martial arts then you should try to stay away from books
with a bias. The exception might be as a reference or starting point of
investigation.
I do argee that its hard for us U.S. people to do so because of language
barriers and location barriers, I have some books on this culture, mabey it will
have something.
later
R&R Plastics
Jiro Shutendo wrote:
>
> Ninjutsu has nothing to do with assassins. I suggest you go read some of
> Hatsumi Sensei's books. Ninjutsu has been around for longer then most
> japnaese martial arts. Most japanese martial arts have only been around for
> 100 yrs. Also Bujinkan ninjutsu is made up from different schools so its
> really not only one fighting style. there is lot more to it then you read in
> comics or see on tv
assassins. when the need for assassins/spies, etc. died down the art
adapted to more idealistic concerns, hence, ninpo.
There are a number of high level Bujinkan students on this group, don't
feel like you have to defend the art.
Aric
R&R Plastics
Dirk Bruere wrote:
>
> Just picked up this thread, but generally Ninjutsu here is regarded as
> the equivalent of civil war re-enactments ie an outdated, reconstructed
> set of techniques.
>
> The modern equivalent today of Ninjutsu practice and practitioners would
> be Special Forces such as SAS, SEALs etc and their terrorist
> counterparts. No doubt Carlos 'the Jackal' now on trial in France for
> numerous spectacular and lethal international terrorist offences would
> rate as a Grandmaster.
>
> Dirk
countries. They have chosen these arts because of the realistic and
adaptable nature contained within. Most of us simply don't have the time
to do paramilitary training. Hatsumi does however frequently discuss
(and have others who are more experienced with such matters) modern
weapons: handguns, rifles, even grenades.
The art has adapted, but it is based in very old japanese methods proven
to be effective.
Aric
LionPryde
>Just picked up this thread, but generally Ninjutsu here is regarded as
>the equivalent of civil war re-enactments ie an outdated, reconstructed
>set of techniques.
Ninjutsu is a very open art. I accepts new ideas and techniques very easily.
There is nothing outdated about it. THe fact that it has been refined over
about 1000 years makes a great art. If you used a new technique on the battle
field way back when and it didn't work....you were dead. therefore the tech
didn't get taught to others. Kind of like natural selection.
>The modern equivalent today of Ninjutsu practice and practitioners would
>be Special Forces such as SAS, SEALs etc and their terrorist
>counterparts. No doubt Carlos 'the Jackal' now on trial in France for
>numerous spectacular and lethal international terrorist offences would
>rate as a Grandmaster.
SAS and SEAL's are not villagers that are trying to protect themselves. SAS
and SEAL are part of the government and would more than likely be similar to
Samari (sp?). And the Jackal's fat ass would hardly hold rank as
Grandmaster....besides the Jackal is a terrorist....he is not trying to protect
his family. He is/was out to further him self with no reguard to anyone else.
That is the furthest thing from Ninjutsu. There are laws that the Bujinkan
(ninjutsu) abide by....why does everyone have this image of ninja being hired
killers?!?! did you people watch "Revenge of the Ninja" to many times or
what??
Bruce
Dirk Bruere
LionPryde wrote:
>
> SAS and SEAL's are not villagers that are trying to protect themselves. SAS
> and SEAL are part of the government and would more than likely be similar to
> Samari (sp?).
I was referring primarily to techniques, not employers.
And the Jackal's fat ass would hardly hold rank as
> Grandmaster...
After surviving such spectaculars as holding all the OPEC ministers
hostage, and then escaping... then evading all of the West's security
apparatus for 20 yrs... any Ninjutsu practioners have a comparable
record?
.besides the Jackal is a terrorist....
Depends who you ask. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter.
See Menachem Begin (Israel) and Nelson Mandela (South Africa) for
references...
he is not trying to protect
> his family. He is/was out to further him self with no reguard to anyone else.
He considered the Palestinian people his family, and his cause to be
juste.
> That is the furthest thing from Ninjutsu. There are laws that the Bujinkan
> (ninjutsu) abide by....why does everyone have this image of ninja being hired
> killers?!?!
So none of them were ever hired killers? ie mercenaries?
did you people watch "Revenge of the Ninja" to many times or
> what??
Never seen it. I teach Shorinji Kempo.
Dirk
R.J. Shepard
If you were a modern spy/assassin I suppose you would need those skills,
but as a martial artist I see no point. Some historical ninjas did work
as assassins and spies, but that is a profession and has no relation to
the actual art.
Richard
----------------------------------------
Richard J. Shepard (she...@okstate.edu)
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/3776
David L. Burkhead
On 14 Jan 1998 18:55:18 GMT, Wild Bill <wh...@virginia.edu> wrote:
>eas...@redriverok.com (Chuck Easttom) wrote:
[ 8< ]
>>I usually try to avoid being offensive but I to be perfectly honest I
>>have yet to meet a "ninja" who can fight worth a dime.
>>
>Just curious here. Exactly which "ninjas" have you seen? Have you
>actually SEEN Steve Hayes, Greg Kowalski, Jack Hoban, Bud Malmstrom, Bill
>Atkins, Phil Legare, Jeff Prather, Dick Severance, Charles Daniel, Otto
>Cardew, Ed Sones, Kev Millis, Abey Allen, Mark O'Brien, Fumio Manaka,
>Ishizuka, Muramatsu, Oguri, Kan, Kobayashi,Nouguchi,Someya,Nagato,
>Shiraeshi,or Nagase senseis, or even Masaaki Hatsumi soke, actually
>fight?
<Shrug>. I only know that after several years each of Kempo,
Shorin Ryu, Tae Quon Do (or however it's transliterated this
week--it's been a very long time), and Togakure Ryu ninjutsy, I know
which one saved my bacon when it hit the fan--and which one I use in
my daily life in realms far removed from combat.
David L. Burkhead "If I had eight hours to
Advanced Surface Microscopy, Inc. cut down a tree, I'd spend
mailto:as...@indy1.indy.net seven sharpening my axe,"
http://www.a1.com/asm Abraham Lincoln
disclaimer: none of the opinions in this message are necessarily
those of ASM, Inc.
Wild Bill
eas...@redriverok.com (Chuck Easttom) wrote:
>
>such as...
>
>
>In article <19980115204...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
>lion...@aol.com says...
>>
>>>I usually try to avoid being offensive but I to be perfectly honest I
>>>have yet to meet a "ninja" who can fight worth a dime.
>>>
>>
>>
>>not a flame.....so don't pick up your flamethrower
>
Kowalski, Phil Legare, Kevin Millis, Ralph Severe, Greg Stough, Ron
Blackwell, Mark OBrien, Peter King, Otto Cardew, Ed Sones,Ken
Harding,Charles Collins, Doug Bruyer, Mark Davis, Jeff Prather, Fumio
Manaka, Nagato,Noguchi,Ishizuka,Muramatsu,
SHiraeshi,Kobayashi,Nagase,Someya,Doron Navon, and some others. Any one
of these guys more than meets any definition of a good fighter.
WIld Bill
Trevor Purchase
On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Gryphon wrote:
> > I usually try to avoid being offensive but I to be perfectly honest I
> > have yet to meet a "ninja" who can fight worth a dime.
>
> There's a good reason for that. A "ninja" is an assassin, not a martial
> artist, or even really a fighter. The ninjustu practitioners of feudal
> Japan often learned a variant of Shotokan, but by-and-large preferred to
> avoid fighting so that they would remain invisible. Why bother beating
> the living crap out of a shogun, for instance, when you can penetrate
> his castle, pose as one of his servants, and slit his throat while he
> sleeps? This is the way the ninja actually operated, since they could
> disappear the next day, leaving everyone wondering what happened.
>
> Ryan "The Gryphon" Kelly
> ATA Chil Geup (decided)
> Gentleman Scholar
> http://www.angelfire.com/sd/kilroy
>
> Please Email me AND post if you wish to respond.
>
>
A variant of Shotokan? Where did you get that?
As you probably know, the era of true ninjutsu was 700-1700 A.D. Shotokan
Karate never came to mainland Japan from Okinawa until this century, with
Gichin Funakoshi. Shotokan is named after Funakoshi, who died only a few
years ago.
Trevor
Jiro Shutendo
I was checking out your website. It seems to me that your style has no basis
calling it self ninjutsu. It looks like your Soke just decided to open up a
dojo and call it what ever he liked. The only two types if that is what you
would like to call them is Bujinkan or Genbukan
Iron...@NindoRyu.com wrote in message <885878573...@dejanews.com>...
>Interesting thread , sort of... ;-}
>
>If you're interested in seeing NinJutsu that is not politically connected
>to the Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan mess, but stems from the same roots,
>you have two choices:
>
>You can argue all day long, or you can come see us for yourself in our
>Tour of Force - July 1998.
>
>We have plans to bring some of our ranking members through the east coast
>area (from Florida to Canada)during the month of July.
>
>You can check out our schedule (as it develops) at
>http:\\www.NindoRyu.com\newsite\tof98.htm Stops have already been
>planned, and will be updated as the schedule is settled.
>
>If you want to see our form of Ninjutsu (and Nindo Ryu Bujutsu Kai's
>subsidiary arts), this will be your first best chance. If you want more
>general information, please contact our web site at www.NindoRyu.com
>
>C-ya soon,
>Tetsutaka
>
>-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
J.C. and Amiko Kelly
On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:19:59 -0330, Trevor Purchase
<tre...@cs.mun.ca> wrote:
<snip>
>>
>
>A variant of Shotokan? Where did you get that?
>
>As you probably know, the era of true ninjutsu was 700-1700 A.D. Shotokan
>Karate never came to mainland Japan from Okinawa until this century, with
>Gichin Funakoshi. Shotokan is named after Funakoshi, who died only a few
>years ago.
Can you be more specific about this time period? I have just started
to become interested in ninja and ninjutsu, and the first line of the
first book I ever bought about it says that the predecessor to the
ninja (called a suppa, which is uncannily similar to the word spy if
you think about it) first appeared about the second half of the 15th
century. Later passages indicate ninja 'died out' about when Japan
moved into the peaceful Edo era (1602-1868), making the period of true
ninjutsu from 1450-1602, at the outside.
I hope this book isn't that far off!
=================================================
J.C. Kelly
j-a...@s054.aone.net.au
今年の抱負：修身斉家
Greg Dilley - gregory.dilley@EBay
>Iron...@NindoRyu.com wrote in message <885878573...@dejanews.com>...
>If you're interested in seeing NinJutsu that is not politically connected
>to the Bujinkan, Genbukan, Jinenkan mess, but stems from the same roots,
>you have two choices:
Isn't it great to live in a country where you can just dream up something
and pretend you're the master of it?
And what the hell is all that Yamabushi, 5 star general military rank crap?
I have to tell you my friend that it looks like you clowns have made up
your own version of "Teenage Ninja Mutant Boyscouts".
It's a free country, you can do what you want, and call it what you want,
(within copywrite limits of course) but I can also tell you that you rate
somewhere down below "Grandmaster Harunaka Hoshino" in martial arts legitmacy.
At least HE had the guts to choose a defunct ninpo ryu to claim sokeship of
(Fuma Ryu).
You guys may all be tough characters (with a name like Ironhawk, you'd better
be, that would be a damn good name for a leather gay bar) but the only connection
you appear to have to Ninpo is in your dreams.
But that's just my opinion....
Hey! Maybe you guys could lay claim to the infamous Koga ryu! You could
fight Ashida Kim for the rights!
Greg
M G
>Gyphroon wrote: ninja learned a varient of shotokan.....
Ok now this is a crock! I have trained in Shotokan for some time in the
past and currently training in Taijutsu or what you people just love to
call "ninjutsu". Guess what!? They are no where near the same and
ninjutsu was around for quite some time before Shotokan was even a flash
of an idea in Gichen Funakoshi's brain!
Real "ninjutsu" as you call it....well we will never know. Many debates
will come and be argued til the end of time but the fact to remember is
that the philosophy of "ninjutsu" is take whatever works to survive! So
read whatever and think whatever but I will just train and learn instead
of worry about being a so called authentic "ninja"!