Choy Lay Fut vs Hung Gar
Nagasun Ilham
whether it was true or not that Choy Lay Fut was more superior than its
Shaolin brother, the famous Hung Gar style.
I often heard that Chan Heung, the founder of Choy Lay Fut, improved the
southern Shaolin boxing by adding flexible and agile Northern footwork to
replace the rigid, static stance found in southern styles ( the famous
stereotype of northern style is that it is better in footwork and
southern style is better in hand strikes ). If this is so, it can be said
that Choy Lay Fut, which has retained the rich fist play of south and has
the good footwork of north, is better than the typical southern style,
such as Hung Gar.
To provide some background to this discussion, Chan Heung learned fist
play from his uncle, Yuen Woo and a Shaolin monk, Li Yau San. After he
finished studying with them, he was suggested by Li Yau San to learn from
monk Choy Fook. Chan Heung learned the leg skill, footwork, and palm play
( Buddhist palm ) from this monk. The combination of these skills result
in the birth of Choy Lay Fut. However, Chan Heung never forgot his root,
unlike some of today's martial artists. He said that indeed he was the
one that founded Choy Lay Fut, but he humbly said that he merely
inherited the Shaolin skills. Different from some of today's "masters"
which said that they have "created" the "best karate" by combining all
techniques they learn from seminars or see from some movies, right ?
I hope we can discuss this topic without any flames and hatred. I never
intend to flame Hung Gar stylists ( so don't strike me with your Tiger
Claw and Crane Beak !)
sm...@cornell.edu
Does anyone care?
They're both extremely similar styles. Choy Lay Fut has many more hand
forms and weapons, but it's still basically a matter of a person's
preference and how hard he/she trains rather than the style itself.
Steve
Julian L Chan
: I don't have any intention to flame any style. I was just thinking
: Shaolin brother, the famous Hung Gar style.
Historically, of the five schools in Canton, Hung was considered the best
under Wong Fey Hong. But of course that is really more of a statement on
the individual skills of the teachers of those styles at that point in time.
Really hard to say if the styles, or just those teachers are better.
Such comparisons are really not worth it seem all the people who know the
truth are dead and we can only conjecture on what is better or worse
(for example, see the thread on Jet v. Bruce Lee in a fight)
I think CLF is a great style and I'd love to see it in action but it
isn't common here in Philly.
: I often heard that Chan Heung, the founder of Choy Lay Fut, improved the
: southern Shaolin boxing by adding flexible and agile Northern footwork to
: replace the rigid, static stance found in southern styles ( the famous
: stereotype of northern style is that it is better in footwork and
: southern style is better in hand strikes ). If this is so, it can be said
: that Choy Lay Fut, which has retained the rich fist play of south and has
: the good footwork of north, is better than the typical southern style,
: such as Hung Gar.
I'm not sure this is true. The main difference I see is that Choy uses
more rolling fist type movements.
: To provide some background to this discussion, Chan Heung learned fist
New Dave
In article n...@nntp1.u.washington.edu, nil...@u.washington.edu (Nagasun Ilham) writes:
()I don't have any intention to flame any style. I was just thinking
()whether it was true or not that Choy Lay Fut was more superior than its
()Shaolin brother, the famous Hung Gar style.
()I often heard that Chan Heung, the founder of Choy Lay Fut, improved the
()southern Shaolin boxing by adding flexible and agile Northern footwork to
()replace the rigid, static stance found in southern styles ( the famous
()stereotype of northern style is that it is better in footwork and
()southern style is better in hand strikes ). If this is so, it can be said
()that Choy Lay Fut, which has retained the rich fist play of south and has
()the good footwork of north, is better than the typical southern style,
()such as Hung Gar.
()To provide some background to this discussion, Chan Heung learned fist
()play from his uncle, Yuen Woo and a Shaolin monk, Li Yau San. After he
()finished studying with them, he was suggested by Li Yau San to learn from
()monk Choy Fook. Chan Heung learned the leg skill, footwork, and palm play
()( Buddhist palm ) from this monk. The combination of these skills result
()in the birth of Choy Lay Fut. However, Chan Heung never forgot his root,
()unlike some of today's martial artists. He said that indeed he was the
()one that founded Choy Lay Fut, but he humbly said that he merely
()inherited the Shaolin skills. Different from some of today's "masters"
()which said that they have "created" the "best karate" by combining all
()techniques they learn from seminars or see from some movies, right ?
movies?
()I hope we can discuss this topic without any flames and hatred. I never
()intend to flame Hung Gar stylists ( so don't strike me with your Tiger
()Claw and Crane Beak !)
Then take a snake bite to the butt! (no flame intended)
;)
Now, I didn't know that Choy Li Fut was "better" than Hung Gar. If you make that
kind of statement, then you would have to say that Choy Li Fut is better than the
rest of the southern styles, including the northern styles for it's superior hand
combinations. But why stop there, you said that it's better than today's karate also,
right?
Does Choy Li Fut also have a tiger's claw and a crane break? I wonder where that
came from...
nd!
Eugene Tyurin
I was more or less reading r.m-a from 1991, and the "style wars"
were constant all these years. But this "C-L Fut vs H Gar" thread
(I studied C-L Fut 4 years ago) prompted me to try to start a
discussion on the MA evolution and it's perception among the
practicioners.
Why do people like to brag so much about "2,000 years" age of
their style? Where is this "search for the ultimate ancestor"
coming from?
I bet none of you would like to drive a 1910s car or listen to
1950s stereo in your everyday life. Why then you think that there
were no potent masters or smart ideas in MA outside of the
Shaolin and Okinawa time-frame?
Personally, I have no problem with the fact that C-L Fut was
created in the 1930s and Isshinryu (my current style) was created
in 1950s. I agree that there's a lot of this Hikuta and
Protectersice shit floating around, but why do some people deny
"modern" styles any value?
Do you, people, think that no evolution is possible in MA? If you
don't, then how do you vision the co-existence of MA and the 21st
century society?
--
Eugene Tyurin ( ITP, Stony Brook Univ. )
E-mail: ge...@insti.physics.sunysb.edu ( MIME mail is welcome! )
WWW: http://www.physics.sunysb.edu:80/~gene/plan.html
Julian L Chan
: I was more or less reading r.m-a from 1991, and the "style wars"
: were constant all these years. But this "C-L Fut vs H Gar" thread
: (I studied C-L Fut 4 years ago) prompted me to try to start a
: discussion on the MA evolution and it's perception among the
: practicioners.
: Why do people like to brag so much about "2,000 years" age of
: their style? Where is this "search for the ultimate ancestor"
: coming from?
Maybe I'm reading the wrong thread but I didn't notice anyone bragging.
I don't think anyone said CLF was bad. I certainly think it is good and
I study Hung Gar. If I wasn't at my school and CLF was around, I'd
certainly take it before anything else.
Julian Chan
P.S. HG is a very young style too.
: I bet none of you would like to drive a 1910s car or listen to
Chet Braun
I'm not offended by your post but I really think that it is a meaningless
question to ask which style is better. Scientifically you would need some way
to test your hypothisis. You could always pit one practitioner against
another but that only proves which individual is better. I guess you could do
a statistical sampling but choosing such that you had evenly matched
opponents would be rather difficult. Additionally I, personally, would find
it very difficult to compete and use *only* traditional Hung Gar techniques.
I would find myself relying on Norther Shaolin and Tai Chi along with other
styles I had tried such as Aikido. Find pure stylists might be rather
difficult.
The Hung Gar I practice has incorporated forms from other styles in order to
balance out the training. For speed we have borrowed Lau Gar Kuen and
Butterfly Palm both originating with the Northern Shaolin system.
So, agian, I think your question is a meaningless one even though there has
been alot of disscusion on the newsgroup about such questions.
Chet Braun
PARKER RYAN
: Why do people like to brag so much about "2,000 years" age of
: their style? Where is this "search for the ultimate ancestor"
: coming from?
: I bet none of you would like to drive a 1910s car or listen to
: 1950s stereo in your everyday life. Why then you think that there
: were no potent masters or smart ideas in MA outside of the
: Shaolin and Okinawa time-frame?
I think you are framing the question wrong.
Let me ask instead; would you like to buy a radio from a company that has
been experimenting with radio technologies of various sorts for 2000 years
or a company that just barely started doing research on spark-gap
"radios" last year?
Best Regards
Ryan Parker
Eugene Tyurin
>>> "ET" == Eugene Tyurin (ge...@insti.physics.sunysb.edu) wrote:
ET> Why do people like to brag so much about "2,000 years" age of
ET> their style? Where is this "search for the ultimate ancestor"
ET> coming from?
ET> I bet none of you would like to drive a 1910s car or listen to
ET> 1950s stereo in your everyday life. Why then you think that there
ET> were no potent masters or smart ideas in MA outside of the Shaolin
ET> and Okinawa time-frame?
PR> I think you are framing the question wrong.
PR> Let me ask instead; would you like to buy a radio from a
PR> company that has been experimenting with radio technologies
PR> of various sorts for 2000 years or a company that just barely
PR> started doing research on spark-gap "radios" last year?
Do you know any living 2,000-year old master to take lessons from?
:^)
Chan Heung, Tatsu Shimabuku, Bruce Lee didn't just come out of
the woods to claim that 6-pack have enlightened them to create an
ultimate fighting system. No, they digested the techniques they
were taught, added their own vision and experience and voi'la!
Richard Tse-Woon Paw
Nagasun Ilham <nil...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
[one version of the Choy Lay Fut history deleted]
As far as which style is better, it's almost impossible to say. I personally
believe that no style can be better period. However, a particular style
can better fit a particular person, so for him (or her) that style is better.
>I hope we can discuss this topic without any flames and hatred. I never
>intend to flame Hung Gar stylists ( so don't strike me with your Tiger
>Claw and Crane Beak !)
>
BTW: Choy Lay Fut has these attacks also :)
--
Richard Tse-Woon Paw Within each man is the most powerful weapon
rp...@ucsee.eecs.berkeley.edu on Earth. --- The human mind
Choy Lay Fut Kung Fu