Att: Mike Sigman (and others) re: CMA internal strength teacher
kirks...@yourclothesoperamail.com
wondering if you knew anything about this man's Tai Chi / background
http://www.fushengyuan-taichi.com.au/fushengyuan.htm
I'd like to experience some of those "hits like a Mack truck /
internal strength" CMA things you seem to know about and am wondering
if this is a good place to begin.
That goes for anyone else who can help out.
Feel free to reply by email if you wish.
Many thanks
Bob S
(aka kirks_bitch_at_operamail_dot_com)
*****************************************
Remove "your clothes" to email me
*****************************************
Charlie
wrote:
>I know it's extremely impolite to ask in an open forum, but I was
>wondering if you knew anything about this man's Tai Chi / background
>
>http://www.fushengyuan-taichi.com.au/fushengyuan.htm
>
>I'd like to experience some of those "hits like a Mack truck /
>internal strength" CMA things you seem to know about and am wondering
>if this is a good place to begin.
the website doesn't impress me -- weird for chinese guys to get
awarded Japanese 'Dan' grades, and he's very proud of his 'Silver
Dragon patches' -- sounds like a chinese mcdojo award :-)
but he's apparently from the real Yang family, that would seem to be a
good sign. I think you should definitely approach him for a looksee.
at very least, you'll get the awkward experience under your belt of
approaching a teacher and asking him to 'show his stuff'.
i did that here, after taking an introductory taiji class. it was
actually quite enjoyable & challenging to try to follow along the
form. but afterwards when i asked him about fajing, he said that 'it
should arise spontaneously on its own, when needed'. i hid my
disappointment -- they should know exactly how to cultivate the
skills, if they are legit
cheers,
charlie
Mike Sigman
"Charlie" <king...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1l1qj01jvqa5lfr0i...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 20:03:30 GMT, kirks...@YOURCLOTHESoperamail.com
> wrote:
>
>>I know it's extremely impolite to ask in an open forum, but I was
>>wondering if you knew anything about this man's Tai Chi / background
>>
>>http://www.fushengyuan-taichi.com.au/fushengyuan.htm
>>
Well, he's a legit lineage, but I don't think his real reputation for
anything is astonishing. You gotta remember that Yang Lu Chan learned and
studied Chen style in Chen Village for over 17 years (he was an indentured
servant there) and that when he was "released" he was given permission to
teach only a limited portion of the Chen style. But that was 3 or 4
generations back. Why someone thinks that family lineage is a surety to
great skills is beyond me.
> i did that here, after taking an introductory taiji class. it was
> actually quite enjoyable & challenging to try to follow along the
> form. but afterwards when i asked him about fajing, he said that 'it
> should arise spontaneously on its own, when needed'. i hid my
> disappointment -- they should know exactly how to cultivate the
> skills, if they are legit
I've noticed that my ability to run fast can arise spontaneously, but no fa
jin without practice and someone showing you how. :^)
Mike
Mario
Mike Sigman wrote:
> "Charlie" <king...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> news:1l1qj01jvqa5lfr0i...@4ax.com...
>
>>On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 20:03:30 GMT, kirks...@YOURCLOTHESoperamail.com
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I know it's extremely impolite to ask in an open forum, but I was
>>>wondering if you knew anything about this man's Tai Chi / background
>>>
>>>http://www.fushengyuan-taichi.com.au/fushengyuan.htm
>>>
>
>
> Well, he's a legit lineage, but I don't think his real reputation for
> anything is astonishing.
> You gotta remember that Yang Lu Chan learned and
> studied Chen style in Chen Village for over 17 years (he was an indentured
> servant there)
while i share the same opinion as you do, about FZW son,
what the fuck does Yang lu chan and that he was servant and that he was
"released" have to do with this question.. besides, as the 17 years
story goes, he did not to it all one stretch.. so mike, was he
*released* each and every time he went back?
> and that when he was "released" he was given permission to
> teach only a limited portion of the Chen style.
while i really and honestly don't give a rats ass, as to what you think
he taught nor ur claims ....
how to you know this, mike, who told you? where are the records?
do tell and do show us please.
what do you do mike, forgo sleep and make this type shit up in it's place?
> But that was 3 or 4
> generations back. Why someone thinks that family lineage is a surety to
> great skills is beyond me.
that's, what i keep telling you about the four pandas you love so much...
but you don't listen...
from what i've seen and heard, they are no better then fzw son.. so why
don't you say that too...mike, :o))
anyway, have a nice day
M.
Mike Sigman
"Mario" <mrna...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:L630d.14362$Wv5....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>
>>
>> Well, he's a legit lineage, but I don't think his real reputation for
>> anything is astonishing. You gotta remember that Yang Lu Chan learned and
>> studied Chen style in Chen Village for over 17 years (he was an
>> indentured servant there)
>
>
> while i share the same opinion as you do, about FZW son,
> what the fuck does Yang lu chan and that he was servant and that he was
> "released" have to do with this question.. besides, as the 17 years story
> goes, he did not to it all one stretch.. so mike, was he *released* each
> and every time he went back?
In other words, it took Yang Lu Chan 17 years in a village full of fellow
practitioners to learn and become good at a very complex martial art. So
these down-the-line heirs of Yang Lu Chan never had a chance at the same
training he did; ergo, there's no way any of them could ever be all that
good. It may not make sense to you, but I'm sure it does to everyone else.
He was the indentured servant of Chen He De. As Chen got in the 80's and
felt like he might die soon, he released Yang Lu Chan so there wouldn't be
the impropriety of leaving a virile male servant in a household with 4 wives
of Chen's. Yang was given permission to teach but was not allowed to teach
the reeling silk skill.
>
>
>
>
>> and that when he was "released" he was given permission to teach only a
>> limited portion of the Chen style.
>
>
> while i really and honestly don't give a rats ass, as to what you think he
> taught nor ur claims ....
>
> how to you know this, mike, who told you? where are the records?
Chen Xiao Wang told me. But if you read the Yang family histories, you can
see why they get really vague about exactly why Yang Lu Chan was in
Chenjiagou. Ever notice how no Yang history explains exactly what an
illiterate Yang Lu Chan was doing in Chen Jia Gou for 17 years?
Yang left on good terms and with permission to teach. He returned a couple
of times (maybe 3, maybe not) for short periods to get corrections and
further training, since he got beat in a couple of his early fights.
> do tell and do show us please.
> what do you do mike, forgo sleep and make this type shit up in it's place?
Instead of spending each one of your adventures on RMA bad-mouthing me, why
don't you tell us something you think you know, Mario? Wang Hai Jun is
certainly interested in you giving him a lesson, I'm sure. Why not do it
and report back to us? Alas, I don't think he does the same combination of
mud-wrestling and amateur judo that you do. :^) And BTW..... go back
and look at who started the insults, Mario. It's you.
Mike
Mario
Mike Sigman wrote:
> "Mario" <mrna...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:L630d.14362$Wv5....@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>>
>>>Well, he's a legit lineage, but I don't think his real reputation for
>>>anything is astonishing. You gotta remember that Yang Lu Chan learned and
>>>studied Chen style in Chen Village for over 17 years (he was an
>>>indentured servant there)
>>
>>
>>while i share the same opinion as you do, about FZW son,
>>what the fuck does Yang lu chan and that he was servant and that he was
>>"released" have to do with this question.. besides, as the 17 years story
>>goes, he did not to it all one stretch.. so mike, was he *released* each
>>and every time he went back?
>
>
> In other words, it took Yang Lu Chan 17 years in a village full of fellow
> practitioners to learn and become good at a very complex martial art.
full of!?
mike,
if you want to go down this road, okie dokie with me,
full of what mike?, from what i hear the old man taught only a hand full
of his relatives and the story goes , that only yang lu chan was worth
teaching anything to! so full! not so sure.
so, since you make stories up, i'll make mine up too and if you like you
may use ..
yang lu chan, being in with the chinese emperor and all, would go
back form time, to see the old man, who owned a ma and pa grocery story,
and give him gifts! both the student and the teacher were fond of each
other..
> So
> these down-the-line heirs of Yang Lu Chan never had a chance at the same
> training he did; ergo, there's no way any of them could ever be all that
> good. It may not make sense to you, but I'm sure it does to everyone else.
i heard that his sons, wanted to kill themselves rather then continue
the training, and this sound like easy training to you?
gosh, you must be better then you say you are!! cause you train harder;o)
>
> He was the indentured servant of Chen He De. As Chen got in the 80's and
> felt like he might die soon, he released Yang Lu Chan so there wouldn't be
> the impropriety of leaving a virile male servant in a household with 4 wives
> of Chen's. Yang was given permission to teach but was not allowed to teach
> the reeling silk skill.
Mike, your knowledge of tai chi chuan , martial arts in general is very
limited, and so you get lost with words, silk reeling or silk pulling
are feeling ... so forget the words for now,
serious martial artist , have these feeling, know these feelings,
because it give more power and efficiency to the body,
besides there's silk reeling in yang tai chi, it's just not as
externally showy as in chen,
over the top twisting, you tai cheers are into is basic stuff. for
beginners!
serious chen players silk reeling, is small, tight!! not easily seen
well enough lesson for you today.. let's move on...
>>
>>
>>>and that when he was "released" he was given permission to teach only a
>>>limited portion of the Chen style.
let's see, some farmers from the back wood of china are going to put the
fear of buddha, to a fellow, whose tight with the emperor, get real mike,
>>
>>while i really and honestly don't give a rats ass, as to what you think he
>>taught nor ur claims ....
>>
>>how to you know this, mike, who told you? where are the records?
>
>
> Chen Xiao Wang told me.
well cxw has an agenda, his.....$$$$ !!! :o)))
> But if you read the Yang family histories, you can
> see why they get really vague about exactly why Yang Lu Chan was in
> Chenjiagou.
i don't know that. sir, every time a read these stories, they always
mentioned where yang got it from...no hiding...
>Ever notice how no Yang history explains exactly what an
> illiterate Yang Lu Chan was doing in Chen Jia Gou for 17 years?
if memory serve me right, he worked for a grocery owner or something to
that effect.. times were tough in those days, so one immigrated . i hear
your a montenegro lad, .... immigrant!!!!:o)))
>
>
>
>
>
>>do tell and do show us please.
>>what do you do mike, forgo sleep and make this type shit up in it's place?
>
>
>
> Instead of spending each one of your adventures on RMA bad-mouthing me,
me, never!! i keep saying , i like you, your a wacko, but a lovable
wacko...
> why
> don't you tell us something you think you know, Mario? Wang Hai Jun is
> certainly interested in you giving him a lesson,
you first ,,,;o))) shit, the way i look at, if i can't take you, there's
no point going after him. ;o))
> amateur judo that you do. :^)
yes, true, i did do amateur judo.
not everybody can be as lucky as you, and study judo at *the* usmc..;O)
>And BTW..... go back
> and look at who started the insults, Mario. It's you.
no need to, i'll tell it again..
i get a call from a friend, who showed me, what you said about me..
then i see a tape of mikey, again he is talking about me.
so i get me computer, was curious as to why, this loco, is talking about
me. .. heck i only met him once.many years back..o.k. so i did
embarrassed him a little, but just a little and it was so long ago, who
remembered, who cared!
so now armed with a computer..
i instantly get a call
from mikey, under an alias, *able martin* .....:o)
and he's trying to tell me why, some cmc guys are not so good, cause
they went to a cxw seminar. thinking that id have a heart attack upon
hearing this?!?
but when realizing that i did not give a flying fuck !! i did not
learn tai chi from them and i did not care...the way he wanted me too...
well, the rest as they say is net-history,( mikey goes grazy on the
net, so, i zing him for a while , he then sas go to china, i did he
still not happy)........boring, but history non the less!:o)))
ciao bello..
p.s. mikey there no reason to, as you say, bad mouth you.. you do a fine
job of that yourself. i just very politely show you where you lying
again...
M.
>
> Mike
>
>
Mike Sigman
>
>>>
>> In other words, it took Yang Lu Chan 17 years in a village full of fellow
>> practitioners to learn and become good at a very complex martial art.
>
> full of!?
> mike,
> if you want to go down this road, okie dokie with me,
> full of what mike?, from what i hear the old man taught only a hand full
> of his relatives and the story goes , that only yang lu chan was worth
> teaching anything to! so full! not so sure.
> so, since you make stories up, i'll make mine up too and if you like you
> may use ..
> yang lu chan, being in with the chinese emperor and all, would go back
> form time, to see the old man, who owned a ma and pa grocery story, and
> give him gifts! both the student and the teacher were fond of each other..
Well, there are many people in Chen Village who are part of the sizeable
group needed to pass all the history and data of a complex martial art
along. Yang Lu Chan only had himself to teach his sons and he had to go
back for help from Chen Changxing. Here's the translation of the brief
mention of Chen Changxing in the Chen Village oral history:
""Chen Changxing (1771.8.16 - 1853.3.3.), taken name Chen Yunting, got his
skill from his father, Chen Bingwang. He wrote The Ten Treatises on
Taijiquan, The Taijiquan Book of Fighting, and The Key Points to Taijiquan
Application. Using the traditional forms that he learned as foundation, he
incorporated the essence, organized the material, and shaped it into the
First Form, Second Form (Paochui), which later came to be known as the old
form, (or big form) and has been passed down to the present.
Chen Changxing was a bodyguard by profession (which in those days included
all kinds of security matters, deliveries, etc. -translator), and which took
him to Shandong, and so he became well-known in the martial arts world.
While watching an opera in his village, no matter how people crowded, pushed
and shoved, his feet were immovable. Those nearby were like water against a
rock; they could only go around. His Taijiquan postures were balanced and
erect, the whole body moving in harmony, never crooked or leaning, his feet
rooted into the ground, his lower body was as stable as a mountain. Thus
people praised him with the name the " King of the Tablets". He had a
daoguan (dojo) at the home of Chen Dehu. Besides his son, Chen Gengyun, his
disciples of note were Chen Huamei, Chen Huaiyuan, and Yang Fukui (Yang
Luchan).""
Note that Yang Lu Chan was one of Chen Changxing's top 3 students. Only in
the Yang style do they hype Yang Lu Chan as the only one in the village that
was worth a hoot. I wonder why?
>
>
>
>> So these down-the-line heirs of Yang Lu Chan never had a chance at the
>> same training he did; ergo, there's no way any of them could ever be all
>> that good. It may not make sense to you, but I'm sure it does to
>> everyone else.
>
> i heard that his sons, wanted to kill themselves rather then continue the
> training, and this sound like easy training to you?
> gosh, you must be better then you say you are!! cause you train harder;o)
Sure, he trained Yang Ban Hou and Yang Chien Hou and they were both good.
But only Yang Ban Hou rated the name, as his father did, of "Yang the
Unbeatable". Yang Chien Hou got beat sometimes. After Yang Ban Hou none of
the Yang family was ever called "Yang the Unbeatable".... and everyone in
China is well aware of that since most of them will gladly point it out to
you.
>
>
>
>>
>> He was the indentured servant of Chen He De. As Chen got in the 80's and
>> felt like he might die soon, he released Yang Lu Chan so there wouldn't
>> be the impropriety of leaving a virile male servant in a household with 4
>> wives of Chen's. Yang was given permission to teach but was not allowed
>> to teach the reeling silk skill.
>
> Mike, your knowledge of tai chi chuan , martial arts in general is very
> limited, and so you get lost with words, silk reeling or silk pulling are
> feeling ... so forget the words for now,
> serious martial artist , have these feeling, know these feelings, because
> it give more power and efficiency to the body,
> besides there's silk reeling in yang tai chi, it's just not as
> externally showy as in chen,
> over the top twisting, you tai cheers are into is basic stuff. for
> beginners!
> serious chen players silk reeling, is small, tight!! not easily seen
Well good, Mario. If you can do it small you can easily do it big, right?
So you can show me the next time we meet.
>>>
>>>
>>>>and that when he was "released" he was given permission to teach only a
>>>>limited portion of the Chen style.
>
> let's see, some farmers from the back wood of china are going to put the
> fear of buddha, to a fellow, whose tight with the emperor, get real mike,
Ah, so Yang Lu Chan wasn't a disciple, then? Because if he was, he would do
what he teacher instructed. But if you say Yang was an unethical fellow, I
will be glad to entertain the idea.
>>
>>
>> Chen Xiao Wang told me.
>
> well cxw has an agenda, his.....$$$$ !!! :o)))
Yeah.... you who are a fat nobody is so good at badmouthing everyone you
disagree with.
>
>>Ever notice how no Yang history explains exactly what an illiterate Yang
>>Lu Chan was doing in Chen Jia Gou for 17 years?
>
> if memory serve me right, he worked for a grocery owner or something to
> that effect.. times were tough in those days, so one immigrated . i hear
> your a montenegro lad, .... immigrant!!!!:o)))
He was an indentured servant. Ask the Yang people instead of being the
white boy doughboy that wants to argue everything on what he feels is true,
ignoring facts.
>
>> why don't you tell us something you think you know, Mario? Wang Hai Jun
>> is certainly interested in you giving him a lesson,
>
> you first ,,,;o))) shit, the way i look at, if i can't take you, there's
> no point going after him. ;o))
Yawn. America already has so many mouths.
Mario, do me a favor and don't go your usual route of turning every
one-paragraph post into 3 pages. It's a waste of time to drag everything
out into a long novel.
Mike
Mario
Mike Sigman wrote:
> "Mario" <mrna...@earthlink.net> er against a
> rock; they could only go around. His Taijiquan postures were balanced and
> erect, the whole body moving in harmony, never crooked or leaning, his feet
> rooted into the ground, his lower body was as stable as a mountain. Thus
> people praised him with the name the " King of the Tablets". He had a
> daoguan (dojo) at the home of Chen Dehu. Besides his son, Chen Gengyun, his
> disciples of note were Chen Huamei, Chen Huaiyuan, and Yang Fukui (Yang
> Luchan).""
>
>
> Note that Yang Lu Chan was one of Chen Changxing's top 3 students. Only in
> the Yang style do they hype Yang Lu Chan as the only one in the village that
> was worth a hoot. I wonder why?
mikey , why is it when the group you like, writes something down, it's
the bomb, but when the group that you don't like, writes something down
its bullshit! ;o))
personally i don't have a grudge against anybody, yang, chen and
whatever...
that would be you, not I..
also, i remember when you would get bend out of shape, when folks would
say to you but! "yang the invincible" and you'd say bollasshiitt!
but, when we hear stories like, "king table chen" or a guy is a big
shot, cause untrained people can move in a theater.. ur so quiet. ;o)
and another thing... tree big shots students, is not, a room full of
fellow practitioners. ;o)
>
>>
>>
>
> Sure, he trained Yang Ban Hou and Yang Chien Hou and they were both good.
> But only Yang Ban Hou rated the name, as his father did, of "Yang the
> Unbeatable". Yang Chien Hou got beat sometimes. After Yang Ban Hou none of
> the Yang family was ever called "Yang the Unbeatable".... and everyone in
> China is well aware of that since most of them will gladly point it out to
> you.
this shit happen with avery generation, (take a look at george 'W' bush)
:o) the chen, have this serious problem as well , we don't hear this
from you how come?
in private, you keeps saying that cxw, aint all that, but here you can't
stop sucking is dick! what's up with that!
>
>
>
>>>>
>>>>>a
>>
>>let's see, some farmers from the back wood of china are going to put the
>>fear of buddha, to a fellow, whose tight with the emperor, get real mike,
>
>
> Ah, so Yang Lu Chan wasn't a disciple, then? Because if he was, he would do
> what he teacher instructed. But if you say Yang was an unethical fellow, I
> will be glad to entertain the idea.
stop muddying the waters, bud, you said, that they told him what to
teach and what not to teach. show me the records.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yeah.... you who are a fat nobody is so good at badmouthing everyone you
> disagree with.
nah.. mick, you got that wrong the truth is that *we* both *you and I*
, are fat nobody! plural ,mike, plural.
i have an excuse injuries , what's urs. :o)))
>
>
>
>>>why don't you tell us something you think you know, Mario? Wang Hai Jun
>>>is certainly interested in you giving him a lesson,
>>
>>you first ,,,;o))) shit, the way i look at, if i can't take you, there's
>>no point going after him. ;o))
>
>
> Yawn. America already has so many mouths.
don't worry mike, America already knows, that you don't do the fights,
ur a promoter ! a don king wanna be..... :o))
>
> Mario, do me a favor and don't go your usual route of turning every
> one-paragraph post into 3 pages. It's a waste of time to drag everything
> out into a long novel.
bullshit mike , you love it.. nothing makes you happier then , when your
writing on RmA.
asalute..
M.
>
> Mike
>
>
Mike Sigman
>
>
>> Note that Yang Lu Chan was one of Chen Changxing's top 3 students. Only
>> in the Yang style do they hype Yang Lu Chan as the only one in the
>> village that was worth a hoot. I wonder why?
>
>
> mikey , why is it when the group you like, writes something down, it's the
> bomb, but when the group that you don't like, writes something down its
> bullshit! ;o))
Yeah, Mario. Just like when your teacher dies and they find 2 million bucks
tucked away after he handled the union's money.... it's just bullshit that
people were saying he stole it. You always think your fantasies are true
and everyone else must be bullshitting.
You haven't contributed a single good piece of information, Mario. When
you do, I'll reply.
Mike
Mario
Mike Sigman wrote:
> "Mario" <mrna...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:Ol80d.15182$Vl5....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
>>
>
>>>Note that Yang Lu Chan was one of Chen Changxing's top 3 students. Only
>>>in the Yang style do they hype Yang Lu Chan as the only one in the
>>>village that was worth a hoot. I wonder why?
>>
>>
>>mikey , why is it when the group you like, writes something down, it's the
>>bomb, but when the group that you don't like, writes something down its
>>bullshit! ;o))
>
>
>
> Yeah, Mario. Just like when your teacher dies and they find 2 million bucks
politics, mikey politics,
for ur info. they did a thorough research and his wife is keeping it
all..... god bless her.
can't wait till you die, mikey, then well see , what they find buried
in your basement! :o))
>
> You haven't contributed a single good piece of information, Mario. When
> you do, I'll reply.
mikey ur just running scared.
but i'll keep my eyes on you, you fuck up .i'll be there to
tell you so..
M.
>
>
> Mike
>
>
zpoo
> I know it's extremely impolite to ask in an open forum, but I was
> wondering if you knew anything about this man's Tai Chi / background
>
> http://www.fushengyuan-taichi.com.au/fushengyuan.htm
...
Hi Kirks_bitch,
Did you ever visit that taiji place? Well, what do you think :)
Bob
kirks...@yourclothesoperamail.com
>kirks...@YOURCLOTHESoperamail.com wrote in message news:<413cc443...@news.global.net.au>...
>Hi Kirks_bitch,
>
>Did you ever visit that taiji place?
Not had the time yet. To be honest, I'm only just starting to
investigate CMA and only then as a means to improve my other art/s.
I really know very little about it and learning yet another way of
thinking at this present moment would be too much to take on board.
Still....the curiosity builds and persits until one day the damn must
burst, eh?
> Well, what do you think :)
That in asking me that question, you are / have been a student of this
fellow? ;-)
zpoo
...
> > Well, what do you think :)
>
> That in asking me that question, you are / have been a student of this
> fellow? ;-)
Hi,
I have never met the gentleman, but I am interested to hear other
people's experiences :)
I practice Chen and have been a lurker here for many years. Naturally,
when I first started a few years back, I was worried about what many
here were questioning: taiji's effectiveness on the groud.
After trying some things on my teacher and after meeting with a world
class Chen guy, that is no longer an issue :)
I am neither big nor built, I am taller than my teacher and more than
20 years his junior; I also don't have any wrestling or ground
fighting experience, although I am naturally athletic. At the time, I
was watching that "John Marsh" clip, if I remember the name correctly,
and I tried the same takedown on my teacher--not at full force, but he
was just playing around, too :)
Bob
Mrnaples
zpoo wrote:
> kirks...@YOURCLOTHESoperamail.com wrote in message news:
>
> ...
>
>
>>>Well, what do you think :)
>>
>>That in asking me that question, you are / have been a student of this
>>fellow? ;-)
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I have never met the gentleman, but I am interested to hear other
> people's experiences :)
>
> I practice Chen and have been a lurker here for many years. Naturally,
> when I first started a few years back, I was worried about what many
> here were questioning:
this, don't make sense,
> I was worried about what many
> here were questioning: taiji's effectiveness on the groud.
>
> After trying some things on my teacher and after meeting with a world
> class Chen guy, that is no longer an issue :)
ok, but then you add and i quote!
"I also don't have any wrestling or ground
fighting experience,"
can you see the discrepancy here? i hope so.
again just so i'm clear. you say
" After trying, some things on my teacher "
you don't have any wresting or ground experience !!!
how then did you test/ try him????
M.
Kevin Lowe
zpo...@hotmail.com (zpoo) wrote:
> I practice Chen and have been a lurker here for many years. Naturally,
> when I first started a few years back, I was worried about what many
> here were questioning: taiji's effectiveness on the groud.
>
> After trying some things on my teacher and after meeting with a world
> class Chen guy, that is no longer an issue :)
I was worried that Chen tai chi could beat BJJ.
I didn't actually know or practise tai chi, but I tried some tai chi
moves on my teacher and a world class BJJ fighter, and they didn't work.
That settled that. :)
Kevin Lowe,
Tasmania.
zpoo
...
> ok, but then you add and i quote!
>
> "I also don't have any wrestling or ground
> fighting experience,"
>
> can you see the discrepancy here? i hope so.
>
> again just so i'm clear. you say
>
> " After trying, some things on my teacher "
>
> you don't have any wresting or ground experience !!!
> how then did you test/ try him????
Hello Mr Naples ;)
Apologies if the extra information is confusing. I'm just try to put
things in perspective, so as not to mislead RMAers.
Bob
zpoo
> I was worried that Chen tai chi could beat BJJ.
>
> I didn't actually know or practise tai chi, but I tried some tai chi
> moves on my teacher and a world class BJJ fighter, and they didn't work.
> That settled that. :)
Haha... but, you're just pulling it out of your arse ;)
I'm just speaking for myself, of course. That's why it's interesting
to know of other's experiences :)
Bob
Kevin Lowe
> Kevin Lowe <m...@private.net> wrote in message news:
>
> > I was worried that Chen tai chi could beat BJJ.
> >
> > I didn't actually know or practise tai chi, but I tried some tai chi
> > moves on my teacher and a world class BJJ fighter, and they didn't work.
> > That settled that. :)
>
> Haha... but, you're just pulling it out of your arse ;)
You get the point, though. If I tried to bust loose some tai chi on a
Gracie and got creamed, it wouldn't mean a damn thing. In exactly the
same way, if you know jack about BJJ and you bust loose some BJJ against
a top tai chi dude and get creamed it doesn't mean a damned thing either.
If you want some serious discussion why not talk about exactly what you
tried, and what they did about it?
Kevin Lowe,
Tasmania.
kirks...@yourclothesoperamail.com
>I didn't actually know or practise tai chi, but I tried some tai chi
>moves on my teacher and a world class BJJ fighter, and they didn't work.
>That settled that. :)
Hey - let's just not, huh ;-)
If 1% of 1% tai chi helps me out with BJJ & judo (power generation,
"grounding") then it might be worth spending some time investigating
it.
I actually had an interesting experience with someone use "tai chi
like" pushing. I was unable to counteract them - sure, sure I could
have sprawled, turned, thrown, gullotined - whatever. So could anyone
who knows how.
But that's not a 1:1 response. I couldn't stop them from pushing me
by pushing them.
Not magic, but interesting nonetheless.
Mrnaples
kirks...@YOURCLOTHESoperamail.com wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 14:58:44 +1000, Kevin Lowe <m...@private.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I didn't actually know or practise tai chi, but I tried some tai chi
>>moves on my teacher and a world class BJJ fighter, and they didn't work.
>>That settled that. :)
>
>
> Hey - let's just not, huh ;-)
>
> If 1% of 1% tai chi helps me out with BJJ & judo (power generation,
> "grounding") then it might be worth spending some time investigating
> it.
it wont!
>
> I actually had an interesting experience with someone use "tai chi
> like" pushing. I was unable to counteract them - sure, sure I could
> have sprawled, turned, thrown, gullotined - whatever. So could anyone
> who knows how.
if you could have done all that, then he was not any good!
so don't waste your time , by doing taichee and spending less time
with BJJ and Judo.
>
> But that's not a 1:1 response. I couldn't stop them from pushing me
> by pushing them.
>
> Not magic, but interesting nonetheless.
do a little sumo ,and you'll get more then that 1%. that your looking for.
M.
Chas
> do a little sumo ,and you'll get more then that 1%. that your looking for.
No shit- you want live practice against resisting opponents with the most
sophisticated technique you ever saw; mess with sumoka. The sport gets a bit
decadent in the upper weight levels, but the sub-300 pounders are just
fucking horrorshow.
Chas
zpoo
> You get the point, though. If I tried to bust loose some tai chi on a
> Gracie and got creamed, it wouldn't mean a damn thing. In exactly the
> same way, if you know jack about BJJ and you bust loose some BJJ against
> a top tai chi dude and get creamed it doesn't mean a damned thing either.
Sure, I get what you're trying to say. My main point is that real
taiji is worth a look. If a young untrained man can't take a smaller
older man, in his mid 50s, down, that's good enough for me. The whole
time it felt like he was just toying with me.
> If you want some serious discussion why not talk about exactly what you
> tried, and what they did about it?
I ran head on at his belly height with my right shoulder slightly
leading. Tried hooking both hands behind his knees for a double leg;
tried the same for his ankles. I didn't fake any punches to the face,
though; wasn't sure if it would piss him off. Wasn't able to sink
anything because I constantly found myself at odd angles to him
despite my efforts. Also wasn't able to power through because I was
constantly unbalanced. That was about 4 years ago.
I think my only chance of winning would a lucky strike from beyond mid
range; under that, there is very little chance. My teacher's style is
very elusive. On contact, he "dissappears" and due to his positioning
and timing, I'm never really able to do anything.
There is even less chance at close contact because he can make
shocking (in terms of power and time) strikes with almost any part of
his body: thighs, hips, buttocks, front/side/back chest, any part of
the shoulder and arms, etc. The power can be short, shaking and a few
more I can't recall. All done with little obvious movement. I reckon
if I grabbed or was pressed against him, it would end very quickly.
The "World Class" Chen guy is ZTC, his style is less "elusive." He
grounds everything up to a point. Then he redirects... He has some
nasty locks, and could easily remove a limb from it's socket with a
clean fajing. I don't fancy my chances with him at any range.
Bob