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Whatever happened to "Chung Moo Doe" ?

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Pavlov

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Did this cult die out when its leader went to jail a few years ago?
Just curious...

Joshua

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Pavlov wrote in message <37278a3a...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...

>Did this cult die out when its leader went to jail a few years ago?
>Just curious...

i saw two of his schools in houston, tx bought out by another cult guy who
claims to know and practise with great expertise every form of tai chi (long
and short form as well as applications) and every animal kung fu on this
earth.
so i guess it's out with the old and in with the new


Archangelo

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Apr 28, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/28/99
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Unfortunately, no. This joke of a "martial art" still exists and is around
in many states. I know there are three schools in WA (Seattle area). The
martial arts they teach are a fraud to boot, let alone the fact that they
try and control your life right down to your finances.
I can give you more info on them if you like.

Joshua

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
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>Unfortunately, no. This joke of a "martial art" still exists and is around
>in many states. I know there are three schools in WA (Seattle area). The
>martial arts they teach are a fraud to boot, let alone the fact that they
>try and control your life right down to your finances.
>I can give you more info on them if you like.


i remember they had an ad placed saying they now teach tai chi. when i
called i asked what style they taught. their answer was "hard style". i was
like "hard style eh?" so i started making crap up like "do you guys also
include the magic hand and the southern kicks" (i was making stuff up from
the top of my head). the guy replied "yes we do. not many people know of
that". and i said "yeah because it doesn't exist. well thanks anyway".
but there's one in houston called Chinese Martial Arts Institute. the main
teacher is named grandmaster jung. he seems to know what he is doing, but he
claims to know more than he really does. he also opened up 4 new schools
that are headed by his top students. funny thing is that those students
fervently DENY that they studied under him. when i ask where they learned
their pa kua or hsing-i, they reply that it's personal.
this guy is a flake though. he claims to be an expert in every form of tai
chi plus aikido, judo, mantis, wing chun, choi li fut and so on......
you get all that for $40/month plus $200 registration fee....and what do you
do in class? you spend 45 minutes stretching and 15 minutes actually
learning. you do this for 5 years until you either get burned out on
stretching or run out of money.


Pavlov

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
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On Wed, 28 Apr 1999 20:17:58 -0700, "Archangelo" <g...@mail.wsu.edu>
wrote:


>I can give you more info on them if you like.
>

Actually, I was a member in Philly a few years back.
I fled for my life after I quit. The instructor tried tracking me
down through employers, etc., by saying he was a "college buddy," but
they wouldn't give him my new address.

I was pretty excited when "Iron" Kim was convicted.
The instructors are total whackos...really scary.

I hadn't even thought about the cult since then....it's sad to see
they are still around, and that people are still giving them money.

Archangelo

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
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I'm sorry you had to deal with them; glad you got out when you did. Scary
stuff. What martial arts do you study now, and how hard was it for you to
unlearn a lot of what you had learned?

Archangelo

>Actually, I was a member in Philly a few years back.
>I fled for my life after I quit.
>

Pavlov

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Apr 29, 1999, 3:00:00 AM4/29/99
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On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 12:45:58 -0700, "Archangelo" <g...@mail.wsu.edu>
wrote:

>I'm sorry you had to deal with them; glad you got out when you did. Scary


>stuff. What martial arts do you study now, and how hard was it for you to
>unlearn a lot of what you had learned?
>

Actually, I destroyed my knee by listening to their "GET THROUGH THE
PAIN" stuff. I'm now looking into some of the new alternatives to
knee surgery.

I'll be moving to a small town soon, and I'm afraid all they will
offer is TKD, which doesn't really interest me.

It bums me out that the Moonies are still around, and still spreading
their filth.

Oh...the memories of the instructors' stories, and their fake
pigeon-English testimonies.

"Chong Su Nim go catch same rabbit by smell"
"Chong Su Nim float to ground, like feather"
"Chong Su Nim grandmaster of all Asia...cannot fight in Asia because
Chung Moo Do too powerful, too deadly."


Honest Reno

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May 2, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/2/99
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In article <37278a3a...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,

red...@jupiter.com (Pavlov) wrote:
> Did this cult die out when its leader went to jail a few years ago?
> Just curious...
>
In the part of Florida I'm from they just renamed themselves Om Young Do(sp)
and claim to teach 8 styles as one. We all laugh at them since the last any
body remembers of their 8th dan he was a shodan, and not even a good one
--
Reno
The "Official Soap Box Preacher of The RMA"
It's not the voices in my head that bother me, but when they start to
MIME they really freak me out.

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

M. S. Scott

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May 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/3/99
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Pavlov wrote:

>

SNIP

> "Chong Su Nim grandmaster of all Asia...cannot fight in Asia because
> Chung Moo Do too powerful, too deadly."

Is it just me or does this quote about Chung Moo Do sound a lot like
Liberator's TKD rantings? Could Libby be a cult victim??


Mehran Habibi

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May 3, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/3/99
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"M. S. Scott" wrote:

I dunno, but Libby or no, that last one cracked me up ;-).

M

nic...@tiac.net

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May 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/6/99
to g...@mail.wsu.edu

> Unfortunately, no. This joke of a "martial art" still exists and is around
> in many states. I know there are three schools in WA (Seattle area). The
> martial arts they teach are a fraud to boot, let alone the fact that they
> try and control your life right down to your finances.
> I can give you more info on them if you like.
>

Hi! Actually, I would be interested in getting more info on the group that's
active in the Seattle, WA area.

I'm a former member of Chung Moo myself; I was involved in the "old days",
when it was known as Chung Moo Quan. I was involved with the organization in
the 1980s in Massachusetts. Got out a little more than ten years ago, after
spending essentially my adolescence in the cult.

The schools around here in MA seem to have renamed themselves very
innocuous-sounding names, like "8 Martial Arts Center", etc. However, they
still have pics of Johnny C. doing his jump-kicks. I'm willing to give the
organization the benefit of the doubt--hey, maybe they can really change--but
as long as they associate themselves in any way with John C. Kim, aka Chong
Su Nim 'Iron' Kim, they should be considered suspect. Kim is a proven tax
cheat, and widely known in martial arts circles to be about as big a fraud as
you can be. Not to mention he's a convicted criminal who, to the best of my
knowledge, is still serving time for 'conspiracy to defraud the United States
of America', the "official" name of the crime he committed. And, most of his
top lieutenants either plead guilty to that charge or were convicted with
Kim.

The fact that many of the schools have changed names and school heads makes
it tougher to pin down just how active this cult is now. Also, I'm sure
they've toned down the activity, else they'd grab attention a whole lot
quicker than the first time around. With regards to the posts I've seen
concerning this "grand master" who apparently took over some schools in the
Houston area, I'd be interested in learning more on that, too.

Thanks, all!

Nick

Pavlov

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May 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/7/99
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On Sun, 02 May 1999 17:38:14 GMT, Honest Reno
<just...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:

>In article <37278a3a...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,
> red...@jupiter.com (Pavlov) wrote:
>> Did this cult die out when its leader went to jail a few years ago?
>> Just curious...
>>
>In the part of Florida I'm from they just renamed themselves Om Young Do(sp)
>and claim to teach 8 styles as one. We all laugh at them since the last any
>body remembers of their 8th dan he was a shodan, and not even a good one


On the east coast, they were called Oom Yung Doe before going to Chung
Moo Doe.

They were EXTREMELY upset with me for helping to expose them.

You should see some of their 1st degrees....totally inept. A TKD
yellow belt does a better sidekick than some of their 1st degrees.
:-)

BHardy1968

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May 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/9/99
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<< Hi! Actually, I would be interested in getting more info on the group
that's
active in the Seattle, WA area. >>

Hello Nick,
My name is Brian Hardy and I know a bit about the Seattle area CMD schools.
There are four in the area: Bellevue, First Hill, Aurora, and (opened last
month) Queen Anne. For the past 18 months I've been going to the Aurora school
although I once went to First Hill school for an all black belt training. The
number of students in the area seems to be quiet large as a National Accredited
Training in Bellevue in early April drew what I estimated to be about 150 black
belt program students.
The instructors I've worked with have all been serious yet enjoyed their work.
There are four at my school although we get visiting instructors now and then.
The First Hill school seems to be the Headquarters of the three schools
although this is conjecture on my part.
My time at CMD has been enjoyable and, I think very good for me. While the
instructors have made some rather incredible claims concerning the health
benefits of this or that Long Form, they haven't exhibited any "cult-like"
behaviors atributed to CMD in previous posts. To me, they've just been a bunch
of (mostly) guys who really believe in their MA.
I am not writing as an expert in the field. With the exception of a Karate
class and some MA training in the Coast Guard, this is my first experience. Nor
am I a whole hearted proponant of Chung Moo Doe. It's pretty expensive (to me
anyway), some of the supposed benefits were hard to swallow and they really
pushed the Black Belt program while I was on the General training program.
Those caveats aside, I still am glad I'm going right now. I'm also looking
forward to looking into other MA's when I leave Seattle at the end of the
school year to give me a more rounded experience.

As you've probably guessed, I'm not interested in defending nor supporting CMD
to the general public. This is what I've experienced; you are free to take it
or leave. Many posts in this ng seem actually offended by CMD. I am offended by
ethnic cleansing, people not neutering their pets and life long smokers who
blame others for their lung cancer. People who spend their time doing a martial
art (or an approximation of one) might make me sigh and shake my head, but they
don't offend me.
Feel free to contact me with any questions you may have, Nick. Peace.
(Witty saying here)


BHardy

Pavlov

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May 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/10/99
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On 9 May 1999 23:23:10 GMT, bhard...@aol.com (BHardy1968) wrote:


> My time at CMD has been enjoyable and, I think very good for me. While the
>instructors have made some rather incredible claims concerning the health
>benefits of this or that Long Form, they haven't exhibited any "cult-like"
>behaviors atributed to CMD in previous posts. To me, they've just been a bunch
>of (mostly) guys who really believe in their MA.

It's good that you're enjoying CMD. Many of the instructors aren't
inherently "evil." They are simply minions of the National
Instructors (who ARE evil). The instructors you deal with day-to-day
are just brainwashed enough to believe that CMD is a valid MA.

Just make sure you watch for the signs:

1. Lectures at the end of class (when you're exhausted from 45
minutes of Pal Gay) about how CMD should be the #1 priority in your
life.

2. Instructors making you aware of a $200 "National Instructor
Seminar," but not really giving you any choice as to whether or not
you'll be taking it.

3. Instructors asking you to make your monthly payment a week or 2
early.

Take some of the material that was published in the Chicago papers
about CMD to one of your instructors and ask him about it. They have
a canned response about how everyone is jealous of the power of CMD,
and therefore are trying to bring them down.

How much do they charge these days for CMD? When I was in it, it was
about $2100 for an 8-month "trimester." Compare this to how much
you'd pay at a real MA school.

Honest Reno

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May 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/10/99
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In article <3733501a...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,

--
Same group, my spelling sucked..Thank you


Reno
The "Official Soap Box Preacher of The RMA"
It's not the voices in my head that bother me, but when they start to
MIME they really freak me out.


--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---

The Reverend Tim McIntire

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May 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/10/99
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Hey, all...

Just de-lurking here to say that I read this thread about Chung Moo Doe
just in time. I'm in the Boston area and have been looking for someplace
to study martial arts. I studied a long time ago (10 years...so I'm
pretty much a novice all over again) and was looking for something new and
different. There's an "8 Martial Arts for Health" CMD school right by
m'job, so I paid thirty bucks to take a couple of introductory classes and
was fixin' to fork over some real money in the next couple of days.
LUCKILY, I read this thread.

Now, I really don't know enough to critique the curriculum OR the
techniques...but I do know that I'm not crazy about having to bow in to a
picture of a guy who's in jail for fraud...and some more web searching has
yet to turn up anything positive about the style except for Chung Moo Doe
schools' home pages.

Anyway...thanks for warning me off...and if anyone in the Boston area
wants to let me chat them up and pick their brain about a good school in
the area, I'd be eternally grateful. My email is macadoo AT cris DOT
com. Thanks in advance if you write back.

--
The Reverend Tim McIntire
http://www.cris.com/~macadoo

"All you read and wear or see and hear on TV is a
product begging for your fatass dirty dollar" --Tool

Pavlov

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May 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/14/99
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On 10 May 1999 17:19:33 PDT, mac...@SPAM.concentric.net (The Reverend
Tim McIntire) wrote:


>Anyway...thanks for warning me off...

I'm glad that I could contribute to helping turn one person away from
CMD. I'm sure Nick is, too.

MattBarnz

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May 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/14/99
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In article <macadoo-1005...@ts019d27.cht-ma.concentric.net>,
mac...@SPAM.concentric.net wrote:

>Anyway...thanks for warning me off...and if anyone in the Boston area
>wants to let me chat them up and pick their brain about a good school in
>the area, I'd be eternally grateful. My email is macadoo AT cris DOT
>com. Thanks in advance if you write back.
>

There are *TONS* of good opportunities in Boston or study. Check into the
universities, as they will probably have some good clubs. I have a cousin who
is taking tai chi up there with Bow Sim Mark. Look around and try out a
variety. When you find a few you like, post again to check or people's
experiences. Is there a specific type of art that interests you?

Mb
matt...@aol.com

aschne...@aol.com

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Dec 23, 2019, 9:32:55 PM12/23/19
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This is quite late,however there is a story to be told. And this day I read Master Kim has passed.My late coming to the story. Harbor City, California,rough area,mostly hispanic,I took Chung Moo Quan because my boss who owned a Machine Shop in unincorporated Torrance,his back yard. So he suggests we both sign up,1st class we are taught stretches which we write on legal pads,we consult these pafs every visit so not to take up time being reshown,off on our own. 1st and 2nd visit goes same,$25 every class cash. 3rd visit I started pointing out that many moves seem to leave instructor vulnerable to counter attack,street fighter could find opening,I was challenged,called to mat. Head instructor was told what I said,I was informed to teaches actors training for movies which is another way graduating students can find profit from graduating to full black belt. So I'm called to mat,I'm told to attack,I move forward and he sweeps and I step over kick and move behind him,2 inches from back of his head,I pause,and back away, he attacks grabbing for my fingers and I swat his attempt,he moves quickly grabbing my hand and starts flipping me backwards when his face turns 6inches away unshielded, I now have one hand free,I look to my boss,he sees my intentions to punch this guy who is now grabbing for my foot while my body in motion to floor,like time paused for 3 seconds,his face within reach,I see my boss,he shakes his head,I know what he was saying,conform,I did,the head black belt started twisting my foot,the pain was intense,I did not scream,he turned his head to see why this soft student wasn't begging in pain,I whispered stop,stop! He released,I hobbled to boss and whispered, did you see how open he was,I was going to bomp him,he laughed and said I did the right thing. Neither of us returned.

k a

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Aug 7, 2021, 2:34:59 AM8/7/21
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On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 6:32:55 PM UTC-8, aschne...@aol.com wrote:
> This is quite late,however there is a story to be told. And this day I read Master Kim has passed.My late coming to the story. Harbor City, California,rough area,mostly hispanic,I


Super difficult to read what you wrote. Did you not learn how to read/write in the U.S.? Just curious. It sounds like you may have something interesting to say, but it is really difficult to read with all of the commas and short phrases. I am so confused.
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