Pak Mei/Bak Mei/White Eyebrow
David A Ross
First, anyone stating that they based their opinion of Sifu Chan
Tai-San's Pak Mei based upon tournament competition must be mistaken. No
one from our school performs Pak Mei in competitions. We are primarily a
Lama Pai school with only a few students learning some Pak Mei from our
sifu. You will not see Sifu Chan's students doing Pak Mei in
competition.
Second, as many are well aware Sifu Chan Tai-San is a very well
respected sifu who has been honored by the Chinese government (in a film
entitled "China's living legends"), the Chinese Wushu Reserach
Association, The International Wushu Federation, the Eastern United
States Kung-Fu Federation, NACMAF, USA WKF, USCMAC, and many other
organizations around the world. He has trained with some of the most
famous teachers in the history of kung-fu.
Finally, there are only 3 Pak Mei forms (Gow Bouh Teui, Mang Fu Chut
Lam, and Sahp Baat Mouh Kiuh). The other forms taught in "Pak Mei" are
from Li Ga and other systems and were added in by Sifu Cheung Lai Chung.
It is funny how some can talk all about Pak Mei when they haven't yet
gotten the three essence forms and have never learned some of the
trademark moves of the system.
White Eyebrow
David A Ross <lkf...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>First, anyone stating that they based their opinion of Sifu Chan
>Tai-San's Pak Mei based upon tournament competition must be mistaken. No
>one from our school performs Pak Mei in competitions. We are primarily a
>Lama Pai school with only a few students learning some Pak Mei from our
>sifu. You will not see Sifu Chan's students doing Pak Mei in
>competition.
During the Spring of '94 a NACMAF tournament was held at the former
Penta Hotel (directly across from Madison Square Garden on Sixth
Avenue) where Chan Tai San and some of his senior students were
present. It was here that a representative of his Lama Pai School
entered the southern short hand division and performed a form that
they called "Sub Gee" ( Cross Pattern Set) from the White Eyebrow
system. Your version of "Sub Gee" does not resemble ours at all.
>Second, as many are well aware Sifu Chan Tai-San is a very well
>respected sifu who has been honored by the Chinese government (in a film
>entitled "China's living legends"), the Chinese Wushu Reserach
>Association, The International Wushu Federation, the Eastern United
>States Kung-Fu Federation, NACMAF, USA WKF, USCMAC, and many other
>organizations around the world. He has trained with some of the most
>famous teachers in the history of kung-fu.
No one was questioning the respectability of your Sifu. Why do you
feel a need to defend it.
>Finally, there are only 3 Pak Mei forms (Gow Bouh Teui, Mang Fu Chut
>Lam, and Sahp Baat Mouh Kiuh). The other forms taught in "Pak Mei" are
>from Li Ga and other systems and were added in by Sifu Cheung Lai Chung.
>It is funny how some can talk all about Pak Mei when they haven't yet
>gotten the three essence forms and have never learned some of the
>trademark moves of the system.
You seem to know alot about the knowledge that I have of Pak Mei. How
can you assume I don't know these three forms? But you are right, my
Sifu is a traditionalist, he believes in quality rather than quantity.
Sifu Kwong Man Fong always states that in the eyes of the Federal
Reserve, "a genuine one dollar bill has more value than a counterfeit
hundred dollar bill." And there are FOUR (4) original Pak Mei Hand
sets.
It is funny how some can talk about Pak Mei when they profess to be
primarily a Lama Pai school.
Again, it is not our intention to get into any bickering match with
any other school of Martial arts, however it seems like you wish to.
CC Cheung, Student of Master Kwong Man Fong
David A Ross
1) Student of Chan Tai-San was doing Mok Ga, another short hand system
which also has a set with the same name. Technique might look similar
but it is another system. No wonder it didn't look like your form.
2) I have met and know some senior people under Master Kwong and they
did not know certain techniques. I was surprised by this. We don't all
do all the Pak Mei forms but most seniors learn the basic techniques and
fighting applications. If that doesn't make us "pure" then so be it.
However, we do know Pak Mei.
3) No one owns knowledge. Does it bother you that I can speak
intelligently about your system? I can read (both English and Chinese)
and know several Pak Mei teachers around the country and in Hong Kong.
That is where I get my information.
White Eyebrow
David A Ross <lkf...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>1) Student of Chan Tai-San was doing Mok Ga, another short hand system
>which also has a set with the same name. Technique might look similar
>but it is another system. No wonder it didn't look like your form.
The student stated that he was going to perform "Sub-Gee" of White
Eyebrow, not Mok Ga. And as I stated before, it in no way resemble
the Sub-Gee as practiced by the students of Sifu Kwong Man Fong in
both technique and power.
>2) I have met and know some senior people under Master Kwong and they
>did not know certain techniques. I was surprised by this. We don't all
>do all the Pak Mei forms but most seniors learn the basic techniques and
>fighting applications. If that doesn't make us "pure" then so be it.
>However, we do know Pak Mei.
The term, senior is relative!!! I am aware that you are acquainted
with a couple of my seniors. However, they are in no way near the
highest ranked students in the school; therefore, it should no
surprise if they are not knowledgeable of every technique in the
system.
FOR THE LAST TIME, as I have stated before, Master Kwong Man Fong is a
traditionalist. Sifu Kwong Man Fong holds the Pak Mei system in high
regard, he does not believe that you should be taught until you have
reached a certain level of proficiency in the material you already
know.
If your Sifu, Chan Tai-San, wishes to show the students of his school
his version of White Eyebrow that is his prerogative. HOWEVER, do not
deceive yourself, or the general public in believing that it is one
and same as the Pak Mei Kung-Fu of Sifu Kwong Man Fong.
>3) No one owns knowledge. Does it bother you that I can speak
>intelligently about your system? I can read (both English and Chinese)
>and know several Pak Mei teachers around the country and in Hong Kong.
>That is where I get my information.
Intelligence is relative. On certain aspects you are correct about
the Pak Mei system. On others you are incorrect, as I have pointed
out.
It is good that you have the ability to communicate in more than one
language. So can I.
BTW you mistranslated the title of the documentary your Sifu is in.
My Sifu is a 5th Generation practitioner of Pak Mei Kung-Fu, that is
David A Ross
Funny, in e-mail to me you state you want to be "respectful" and keep
this to private e-mail. Then you continue to post this trash on the
newsgroup. For the following, you have only yourself to blame.
you write:
> If your Sifu, Chan Tai-San, wishes to show the students of his school
> his version of White Eyebrow that is his prerogative. HOWEVER, do not
> deceive yourself, or the general public in believing that it is one
> and same as the Pak Mei Kung-Fu of Sifu Kwong Man Fong.
We do Pak Mei, PERIOD.
WE DO NOT DO NOR HAVE WE EVER SAID WE DO "Kwong Man Fong Pak Mei"
whatever the hell that may be. We don't deceive anyone. Your school and
class mates are the ones deceiving people by claiming that if they don't
study with your teacher they are not doing Pak Mei.
I suggest people go out and buy your sifu's video tape. Then they can
come by our school and we will show them what we do. They are not the
same at all. However, I think many would still be quite interested in
what we do.
THE TRUTH HURTS. You talk like you are a high ranking student and an
offical representative of your school. YOU ARE NOT. You have studied for
three years. You jump from school to school:
Praying Mantis
Eagle Claw
Northern Shaolin
Claiming each time that the system and the teacher you are studying with
are best. Apparently, no one takes you seriously. You belittle your own
Si-Hing! Willy Pang does forms in circles around you and would beat you
100% of the time.
YOu claim to be traditionaly but you are not. If you were really
traditional, you would drag your skinny ass down to my school and not
talk trash here so much. But you don't have the balls to do that! THe
last person with balls in your Pak Mei school was David Garcia.
Unfortuantely, he only had the balls to challenge my 68 year old sifu
and declined to fight me!!!!!!!
PRETTY FUNNY, isn't it?
My door is open because I have over 150 students and a full time school.
Your sifu has so few students that his school in Brooklyn closed down
and now even many si-hing are leaving him. Tradition isn't NOT TEACHING
THE SYSTEM. NO ONE IN YOUR SCHOOL HAS ALL THREE OF THE ADVANCED FORMS so
you all just talk trash.
Don't threaten me with David Garcia or write me anymore trash. From now
on, I expect you to talk with your Pak Mei or not talk at all.
White Eyebrow
David A Ross <lkf...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
==================================================================================================
My name is Edgar. I am "qualified" to respond to your e-mail and
especially your Newsgroup posting on rec.martial.arts on Sunday, 17
August 1997.
You should have been aware that the Pak Mei Web Site is maintained by
several individuals and any news and information from the Internet is
disseminated among the Pak Mei Practitioners here and abroad.
Let me introduce myself. Let's say I'm a born again "Pak Mei"
practitioner. I had learned Pak Mei about 20 (twenty) years ago under
the guidance of Sifu Kwong Man Fong.
My Si-Da is not talking trash as you state in your posting. He is just
relating his knowledge of Pak Mei history that was taught to us by our
Sifu, Kwong Man Fong, which was taught to him by his Sifu, our
Si-Gung, Grandmaster Cheung Lai Chun. Sifu Kwong Man Fong is the 5th
Generation of Pak Mei Kung Fu, a direct disciple of Si-Gung,
Grandmaster Cheung Lai Chun.
Any ill feelings you have with my Si-Da does not concern me, but the
disrespect to my Sifu and his school cannot go unanswered. You have
disrespected the real Pak Mei style and leave me no choice but to
accept your challenge. Even thought I have not practiced any martial
arts for the past 15 years. I am confident I can show you to respect
the real Pak Mei with the skills I have re-established within the past
two years compared to your "12 years".
If you want to verify my background, check with your sources, I
believe one of them learned Eagle Claw.
I welcome you and your 150 students to our school to receive your
respect or your challenge.
While you are contemplating which road to take. Let me respond to the
other nonsense you posted.
1. The word "Si-Hing" means a lot to you. To you Si-Hing probably
mean the more senior you are to the style the more skill you have. To
me, "Si-Hing" is only associated with respect. Skill and Chi does not
grow on you. Skill and Chi have to be earned.
2. David Garcia is a student of Master Kwong Man Fong and is a Pak
Mei brother of mine. Under the teachings of Master Kwong Man Fong
and Pak Mei, we do not purposely seek out to challenge others, unless
provoked into self defense. Until we can verify the incident that you
keep referring to, we will not formally respond until such time.
3. You wrote in the post that "you do Pak Mei. Period." Sorry to
say, but that's not Pak Mei you are doing. What you are doing is
called Hak-Mei, period. You said your Pak Mei is different from our
Pak Mei (Its not even similar), but there is only one Pak Mei style.
Sifu Kwong Man Fong is a direct disciple of Grand Master Cheung Lai
Chun, can your Sifu, Chan Tai San say that?
4. You said many Si-Hings are leaving my Sifu, but I do not see that.
Many of us, Si-Hings, are away from the School due to our businesses
and jobs, but are readily available to Sifu Kwong Man Fong.
5. Most students are not taught the advance form yet, because Pak Mei
is an internal/external style. If you do not have the level of "Chi"
to apply the advance techniques. It is useless to have it taught.
6. Thank you for the gratuitous ad on our tape. However, we suggest
they come to our school to observe a class, then go to your school for
a look.