Gracie Challenge in Black Belt Magazine!!
Mike Pritchard
>From: Jeff Small <jeff...@delphi.com>
>Subject: Gracie Challenge in Black Belt Magazine!!
>Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 01:34:23 -0500
>In the November issue of Black Belt Magazine on page 72, there is a challenge
>to a guy named Benny Urquidez.
>Who is this guy and what exactly is the story on this guy? Can Royce beat him?
>Is he going to be in UFCIV?
>Sounds pretty serious...
>"Benny, face me in the Ultimate Fighting Championship(TM) IV. You have three
>months to prepare. If you will not, then apologize to my family."
>
>Curious,
>Jeff Small
>Surfside,SC
>
You're kidding, right? Who is Benny "the Jet?" Yikes...only one of the
most well known full contact fighters of all time! As to whether or not
he'd beat Gracie...that all depends on who's best prepared for the fight.
But, I'll bet he'd at LEAST give Gracie one heck of a good fight!
Cheers,
Mike P.
.
***************************
Disclaimer:
"Any opinion expressed is my own, and not that of my employer"
OR
"Nobody saw me do it...you can't prove anything!"
****************************
Michael Pritchard Phone: (217) 333-0850
Operations Supervisor FAX: (217) 333-7151
WILL AM/FM Radio Internet: mike...@uiuc.edu
University of Illinois
Jeff Small
Sang Shin
(Michael Dash) wrote:
> In article <mike-ops.60...@uiuc.edu> mike...@uiuc.edu (Mike
Pritchard) writes:
>
> >In article <p26WBuX....@delphi.com> Jeff Small
<jeff...@delphi.com> writes:
> >>From: Jeff Small <jeff...@delphi.com>
> >>Subject: Gracie Challenge in Black Belt Magazine!!
> >>Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 01:34:23 -0500
> >>In the November issue of Black Belt Magazine on page 72, there is a
challenge
> >>to a guy named Benny Urquidez.
> >>Who is this guy and what exactly is the story on this guy? Can Royce
beat him?
> >>Is he going to be in UFCIV?
> >>Sounds pretty serious...
> >>"Benny, face me in the Ultimate Fighting Championship(TM) IV. You have three
> >>months to prepare. If you will not, then apologize to my family."
> >>
> >>Curious,
> >>Jeff Small
> >>Surfside,SC
> >>
>
>
> >You're kidding, right? Who is Benny "the Jet?" Yikes...only one of the
> >most well known full contact fighters of all time! As to whether or not
> >he'd beat Gracie...that all depends on who's best prepared for the fight.
> >But, I'll bet he'd at LEAST give Gracie one heck of a good fight!
>
> I'll take that bet! Benny will go to the ground and will be totally lost to
> Royce's grounfighting skills. Becuae of the hard feelings, Royce is sure to
> injure him. In fact I'll bet that Benny doesn't even accept Royce's
> challenge. He'll weasel out of it somehow!
>
> M. Dash
>
Isn't Benny Urquidez somewhere in his forties these days? Does GJJ now
pride itself on grudge matches against geezers?
sang
Chaos
>In article <mike-ops.60...@uiuc.edu> mike...@uiuc.edu (Mike Pritchard) writes:
>>In article <p26WBuX....@delphi.com> Jeff Small <jeff...@delphi.com> writes:
>>>From: Jeff Small <jeff...@delphi.com>
>>>Subject: Gracie Challenge in Black Belt Magazine!!
>>>Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 01:34:23 -0500
>>>In the November issue of Black Belt Magazine on page 72, there is a challenge
>>>to a guy named Benny Urquidez.
>>>Who is this guy and what exactly is the story on this guy? Can Royce beat him?
>>>Is he going to be in UFCIV?
>>>Sounds pretty serious...
>>>"Benny, face me in the Ultimate Fighting Championship(TM) IV. You have three
>>>months to prepare. If you will not, then apologize to my family."
>>>
>>>Curious,
>>>Jeff Small
>>>Surfside,SC
>>>
>>You're kidding, right? Who is Benny "the Jet?" Yikes...only one of the
>>most well known full contact fighters of all time! As to whether or not
>>he'd beat Gracie...that all depends on who's best prepared for the fight.
>>But, I'll bet he'd at LEAST give Gracie one heck of a good fight!
>I'll take that bet! Benny will go to the ground and will be totally lost to
>Royce's grounfighting skills. Becuae of the hard feelings, Royce is sure to
>injure him. In fact I'll bet that Benny doesn't even accept Royce's
>challenge. He'll weasel out of it somehow!
>M. Dash
Well if he has any sense at all he won't accept the challenge. I think
you'd have to be pretty nuts or extremely over-confident (or both) to
enter the UFC, especially after watching 3. Even Gracie got severely
pummeled, and couldn't continue on. If you're going to enter, be an
alternate--they definitely get the better end of the deal!
I wouldn't be surprised if Benny enters to fight Gracie and they don't
even last to see each other (ala Gracie vs. Shamrock in 3). I'm amazed
they find enough competitors as it is, considering the prize money for
winning is relatively low, and losers get jack (and jacked as well).
-Alex
albe...@vcp.monash.edu.au
>>
>
>
>You're kidding, right? Who is Benny "the Jet?" Yikes...only one of the
>most well known full contact fighters of all time! As to whether or not
>he'd beat Gracie...that all depends on who's best prepared for the fight.
>But, I'll bet he'd at LEAST give Gracie one heck of a good fight!
>
>
>Mike P.
>
Right on. By the way, has anyone seen the open letter
that Benny wrote in reply?
It went something along the lines:
I am surprised and dissapointed that you have rechallenged me.
You used my name to make yourself famous last time. I trained
with Gene LeBell and Bill wallace to prepare for that fight.
In the end you called it off. (but didn't Rorion challenge him, not
Royce?)
So you have won a tough-man contest. I won a 100-man 2 day contest.
it doesn't mean you are a world champion. (Goes on to list his record
and titles)
So I don't have anything to prove to you. (or something to that
effect - and no apology!)
Stay tuned for the next spine-tingling episode.
Albert
Michael Dash
>In article <p26WBuX....@delphi.com> Jeff Small <jeff...@delphi.com> writes:
>>From: Jeff Small <jeff...@delphi.com>
>>Subject: Gracie Challenge in Black Belt Magazine!!
>>Date: Thu, 6 Oct 94 01:34:23 -0500
>>In the November issue of Black Belt Magazine on page 72, there is a challenge
>>to a guy named Benny Urquidez.
>>Who is this guy and what exactly is the story on this guy? Can Royce beat him?
>>Is he going to be in UFCIV?
>>Sounds pretty serious...
>>"Benny, face me in the Ultimate Fighting Championship(TM) IV. You have three
>>months to prepare. If you will not, then apologize to my family."
>>
>>Curious,
>>Jeff Small
>>Surfside,SC
>>
>You're kidding, right? Who is Benny "the Jet?" Yikes...only one of the
>most well known full contact fighters of all time! As to whether or not
>he'd beat Gracie...that all depends on who's best prepared for the fight.
>But, I'll bet he'd at LEAST give Gracie one heck of a good fight!
I'll take that bet! Benny will go to the ground and will be totally lost to
Royce's grounfighting skills. Becuae of the hard feelings, Royce is sure to
injure him. In fact I'll bet that Benny doesn't even accept Royce's
challenge. He'll weasel out of it somehow!
M. Dash
Roark
: Isn't Benny Urquidez somewhere in his forties these days? Does GJJ now
: pride itself on grudge matches against geezers?
: sang
I'm not sure but I believe that Rorion and Benny are very close in age.
If gambling were legal (and I never break laws unless the payoff is big
enough. :) ) , I would give you 10 to 1 odds that Rorion could take
Benny.
I say this with a deep respect for Benny's skill as a full contact
fighter. His fights show a grace and power that comes only once an era.
But... a grappling match without those compulsory leg kicks might be a bit
out of his skill range. *shrug* Pure speculation, but if I were a betting
man...
QUARK
>From: das...@earthlink.net (Michael Dash)
>Subject: Re: Gracie Challenge in Black Belt Magazine!!
>Date: Fri, 7 Oct 1994 09:24:56 GMT
>In article <peltona....@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> pel...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Chaos) writes:
>>I wouldn't be surprised if Benny enters to fight Gracie and they don't
>>even last to see each other (ala Gracie vs. Shamrock in 3). I'm amazed
>>they find enough competitors as it is, considering the prize money for
>>winning is relatively low, and losers get jack (and jacked as well).
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Relatively low? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're pulling this out of thin
>air aren't you? What martial arts tournaments have higher prizes and what is
>the average prize? In order for you to make that statement you need to know
>these things, and I'm willing to bet you don't. So you have no idea whether
>$60,000 is relatively low or the largest MA prize, do you?
>M. Dash
Geez, Mike, sometimes you sound worse than a Christian fundamentalist
backed into a whorehouse. What's with all this defense of GJJ against all
comers? Are they giving you 10% of the gate or something? Hell, even
though I like karate I'm not going to jam it down everybody's throat. Who
cares? Sheesh, you're an intelligent guy. Lighten up.
Michael Dash
>In article <dashms.28...@earthlink.net>, das...@earthlink.net
>(Michael Dash) writes:
>>
>> I'll take that bet! Benny will go to the ground and will be totally
>lost to
>> Royce's grounfighting skills. Becuae of the hard feelings, Royce is
>sure to
>> injure him. In fact I'll bet that Benny doesn't even accept Royce's
>> challenge. He'll weasel out of it somehow!
>>
>> M. Dash
>"weasel out" ?? Why should Benny (who is in his 40s) fight a guy much
>younger for the potential to make.... $60K ? In a match where he could be
>seriously injured! With rules like this, it VERY dangerous for anyone,
>let alone a guy this age. He'd be a fool to do it...
The reason I use a certain tone of voice is that Benny's age didn't stop him
form slandering the Gracies in his Black Belt interview. If he's too old to
fight then he's too old to be saying people are afraid to fight him. Whether
he backs out or competes and gets a royal assbeating doesn't matter, Royce's
challenge is real and Benny will be viewed as afraid or if he actually fights,
an inferior fighter. Basically the Gracies called his bluff.
>-Izz
>PS. Incidentally, I think that Benny's style (PUNCH/KICK) is the classic
>style that the Gracies train for, so I don't think Benny would stand much
>chance once it went to the ground...
Absolutely. Onc eth efight went to the ground Benny would be lost. Not only
that, Royce would have a grudge to settle and would brutalize him. Benny
knows he can't win and he'll come up with some excuse to not fight.
M. Dash
The Lollipop Kid
> If you read my post, you'll see it has nothing to do with GJJ. It has to do
> with people making statements about whether the UFC prize is too low without
> having any knowledge of what is a low martial arts prize. Before you jump
> down my throat at least jump down it for the right reason. My point was that
> the original poster knows, as well as we all do, that he has absolutely no
> idea whether $60,000 is hi or low for a martial arts tournament. Yet he,
> like others, persist in claiming it's to low even though they don't even have
> enough data to formulate an opinion, let alone know what they're talking
about.
>
> Masengill Douche
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly how do you know what amount of prize money is considered low or
high in a martial arts tournament? Do you think you're God or something?
How can you say someone's perception of a quantity is wrong? Do you bitch
when someone calls a glass half-empty? Obviously you are an optimist,
seeing how often you grab your ankles for the Gracies.
I challenge Crusty-Old "Fart-Knocker" (Helio) Gracie to a steel cage
cowbell match. Prize money: $5.89. Friggin Toupee-Boy can be his
tag-team partner. If he doesn't accept, the entire Gracie dynasty must
come to an end. I will be known as the ultimate talker, um, poseur, um,
fighter. This is the Lollipop Challenge. Suck me. I challenged Mike
Tyson; he pushed me aside. He didn't want to fight me, so I win. I asked
Benny Urquidez to spar; he laughed in my face. I win again. "I am a
god". I took on a small rebel army in Columbia; I was hit over the head
with a rifle butt, but no one took me in a fair fight. I win. Damn, I
must be able to fight as well as the Gracies. Do you want to know my
secret style? Hip-hop Jitsu. 8th Dan... Quayle. I have studied with
Zack (yep, THE Power Ranger) for over 20 years. I also take Cockroach
Kung-Fu, but I'm only a 1st Dandelion black-flag belt.
Later, Douchey...
DIsrael
>
> I'll take that bet! Benny will go to the ground and will be totally
lost to
> Royce's grounfighting skills. Becuae of the hard feelings, Royce is
sure to
> injure him. In fact I'll bet that Benny doesn't even accept Royce's
> challenge. He'll weasel out of it somehow!
>
> M. Dash
"weasel out" ?? Why should Benny (who is in his 40s) fight a guy much
younger for the potential to make.... $60K ? In a match where he could be
seriously injured! With rules like this, it VERY dangerous for anyone,
let alone a guy this age. He'd be a fool to do it...
Michael Dash
>I wouldn't be surprised if Benny enters to fight Gracie and they don't
>even last to see each other (ala Gracie vs. Shamrock in 3). I'm amazed
>they find enough competitors as it is, considering the prize money for
>winning is relatively low, and losers get jack (and jacked as well).
Michael Dash
>>In article <peltona....@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> pel...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Chaos) writes:
>>>I wouldn't be surprised if Benny enters to fight Gracie and they don't
>>>even last to see each other (ala Gracie vs. Shamrock in 3). I'm amazed
>>>they find enough competitors as it is, considering the prize money for
>>>winning is relatively low, and losers get jack (and jacked as well).
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Relatively low? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're pulling this out of thin
>>air aren't you? What martial arts tournaments have higher prizes and what is
>>the average prize? In order for you to make that statement you need to know
>>these things, and I'm willing to bet you don't. So you have no idea whether
>>$60,000 is relatively low or the largest MA prize, do you?
>>M. Dash
>Geez, Mike, sometimes you sound worse than a Christian fundamentalist
>backed into a whorehouse. What's with all this defense of GJJ against all
>comers? Are they giving you 10% of the gate or something? Hell, even
>though I like karate I'm not going to jam it down everybody's throat. Who
>cares? Sheesh, you're an intelligent guy. Lighten up.
>
If you read my post, you'll see it has nothing to do with GJJ. It has to do
with people making statements about whether the UFC prize is too low without
having any knowledge of what is a low martial arts prize. Before you jump
down my throat at least jump down it for the right reason. My point was that
the original poster knows, as well as we all do, that he has absolutely no
idea whether $60,000 is hi or low for a martial arts tournament. Yet he,
like others, persist in claiming it's to low even though they don't even have
enough data to formulate an opinion, let alone know what they're talking about.
M. Dash
Samhain
> If you read my post, you'll see it has nothing to do with GJJ. It has to do
> with people making statements about whether the UFC prize is too low without
> having any knowledge of what is a low martial arts prize. Before you jump
> down my throat at least jump down it for the right reason. My point was that
> the original poster knows, as well as we all do, that he has absolutely no
> idea whether $60,000 is hi or low for a martial arts tournament. Yet he,
> like others, persist in claiming it's to low even though they don't even have
> enough data to formulate an opinion, let alone know what they're talking
about.
>
> M. Dash
Apparently, you seem to think that by claiming no one has any data on
anything about prize money that they're all wrong? What data do you have
that proves this? Post and tell us what the prizes of all martial arts
tournaments amount to. You can't argue that everyone else is wrong on the
basis of a perceived lack of information when your main argument lies in
the fact that YOU don't have that information.
But, hypothetically speaking that the UFC is all that it pretends to
be, the prize money turns to nil after the expenses--not to mention the
gamble that you'll win next to nothing. Expenses are: 1) Wages lost by
training for a full-contact martial arts tourney. 2) Plane ticket there
and back. 3) Manager and coaching costs. 4)Tickets for managers and
coaches. 5) Hotel fees (to adjust to the different environment--weather,
altitude, etc.). 6) Medical fees--more than enough to wipe out prize
moneys four times over, unless the UFC provides medical insurance. 7)
Wages lost in recuperating. 8) The respect of your peers for lowering
yourself to a piece of meat. $60,000 isn't much after all 'o that.
Compare that to entering a point-karate tourney where the prizes are
lower, but greater in number (according to weight/age classes). That
leaves the competitors with better odds of winning something, eliminates
the majority of risk of getting permanently injured, and you can walk away
without the loss of respect from your peers--win or lose. At the very
least boxers have the opportunies to become rich with their sport.
The money in the UFC is not a substantial amount, IMO. Prove me
wrong. Prove everybody wrong. I've yet to see any argument other than
"nobody knows anything". Now's the chance to have a cool discussion.
It's like the "is there a God argument", only there's proof in the forms
of facts and figures available. FUN FUN FUN.
DIsrael
>
> Relatively low? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're pulling this out of
thin
> air aren't you? What martial arts tournaments have higher prizes and
what is
> the average prize? In order for you to make that statement you need to
know
> these things, and I'm willing to bet you don't. So you have no idea
whether
> $60,000 is relatively low or the largest MA prize, do you?
>
> M. Dash
Well, as far as martial arts competitions go, it is relatively low.
Professional boxers and kickboxers (yes, these count) get a MUCH higher
purse. Remember when Mike Tyson got paid $22 Million for 90 seconds
against Michael Spinks? Consdiring that some of Royce's matches have been
that short, and he has at least 3 a night (assuming he wins the whole
thing) that's about $20K a fight, which is about 1/1000th the previous
example (I'll admit it's an extreme one...) but in the championship
matches, it is not uncommon to have multi-million dollar purses. which
makes $60K for a MUCH more serious chance for injury in at least 3 fights
(you have to win to get it) very low in comparison...
-Izz
Michael Dash
>In article <dashms.28...@earthlink.net>, das...@earthlink.net
>(Michael Dash) writes:
>>
>> Relatively low? Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're pulling this out of
>thin
>> air aren't you? What martial arts tournaments have higher prizes and
>what is
>> the average prize? In order for you to make that statement you need to
>know
>> these things, and I'm willing to bet you don't. So you have no idea
>whether
>> $60,000 is relatively low or the largest MA prize, do you?
>>
>> M. Dash
>Well, as far as martial arts competitions go, it is relatively low.
>Professional boxers and kickboxers (yes, these count) get a MUCH higher
>purse. Remember when Mike Tyson got paid $22 Million for 90 seconds
>against Michael Spinks?
Boxing is not a MA event and is completely irrelevant. Kickboxing is more
reasonable. So what if Tyson got $22 million for a fight. That doesn't
happen with martial arts. This is because boxing is a mainstream viewing sport
(like football) and the general public is willing to pay to se it. Boxing PPV
events usually charge over 30 or 40 bucks. If you confuse boxing with martial
arts events, then you won't understand why MA makes less money. For example,
you couldn't come up with a story a bout someone winning a martial arts
tournament fro $22 million. Next, someone will try to say tennis is
comprable. Sheesh! Sorry, but this wasn't a good attempt. Limit your input
to data on MA tournaments please.
M. Dash
Roark
: Boxing is not a MA event and is completely irrelevant. Kickboxing is more
Sorry, Mr. Dash. The boxing prizes ARE very relevant. One of the
criticisms of the UFC's is that few of the contestants are top fighters.
And beyond the strict scoring system and rules of boxing, it is a
combatitive art. So the argument is that quality boxers will not be
Kenticed to enter the UFC for such a low prize. I think the same argument
applies to most kickboxers.
I do believe that $60,000 is low. I would DEFINITELY prefer to be engaged
in a kickboxing match for $20,000 than in a full contact, no weight class
competition like the UFC's. The rules of the UFC will always attract big
bruiser types with medium to large egos. Smaller, skilled, or
self-confident martial artists will probably not be seen too often in the
UFC's.
Btw, hats off to Orlando Weit. I do not know what his record is, but
I've heard that he is a good fighter. Took some balls to come in at such
a light weight, with so much to lose. Too bad he almost got killed in the
octagon.
: reasonable. So what if Tyson got $22 million for a fight. That doesn't
QUARK
>From: None (The Lollipop Kid)
>Subject: Re: Gracie Challenge in Black Belt Magazine!!
>In article <dashms.28...@earthlink.net>, das...@earthlink.net
>(Michael Dash) wrote:
>> If you read my post, you'll see it has nothing to do with GJJ. It has to do
>> with people making statements about whether the UFC prize is too low without
>> having any knowledge of what is a low martial arts prize. Before you jump
>> down my throat at least jump down it for the right reason. My point was that
>> the original poster knows, as well as we all do, that he has absolutely no
>> idea whether $60,000 is hi or low for a martial arts tournament. Yet he,
>> like others, persist in claiming it's to low even though they don't even have
>> enough data to formulate an opinion, let alone know what they're talking
>about.
>>
>> Masengill Douche
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Exactly how do you know what amount of prize money is considered low or
>high in a martial arts tournament? Do you think you're God or something?
>How can you say someone's perception of a quantity is wrong? Do you bitch
>when someone calls a glass half-empty? Obviously you are an optimist,
>seeing how often you grab your ankles for the Gracies.
> I challenge Crusty-Old "Fart-Knocker" (Helio) Gracie to a steel cage
>cowbell match. Prize money: $5.89. Friggin Toupee-Boy can be his
>tag-team partner. If he doesn't accept, the entire Gracie dynasty must
>come to an end. I will be known as the ultimate talker, um, poseur, um,
>fighter. This is the Lollipop Challenge. Suck me. I challenged Mike
>Tyson; he pushed me aside. He didn't want to fight me, so I win. I asked
>Benny Urquidez to spar; he laughed in my face. I win again. "I am a
>god". I took on a small rebel army in Columbia; I was hit over the head
>with a rifle butt, but no one took me in a fair fight. I win. Damn, I
>must be able to fight as well as the Gracies. Do you want to know my
>secret style? Hip-hop Jitsu. 8th Dan... Quayle. I have studied with
>Zack (yep, THE Power Ranger) for over 20 years. I also take Cockroach
>Kung-Fu, but I'm only a 1st Dandelion black-flag belt.
>Later, Douchey...
Allright Lollipop Kid!
Michael Dash
>Message-ID: <None-07109...@sstronics.aero.org>
^^^^
>In article <dashms.28...@earthlink.net>, das...@earthlink.net
>(Michael Dash) wrote:
>> If you read my post, you'll see it has nothing to do with GJJ. It has to do
>> with people making statements about whether the UFC prize is too low without
>> having any knowledge of what is a low martial arts prize. Before you jump
>> down my throat at least jump down it for the right reason. My point was that
>> the original poster knows, as well as we all do, that he has absolutely no
>> idea whether $60,000 is hi or low for a martial arts tournament. Yet he,
>> like others, persist in claiming it's to low even though they don't even have
>> enough data to formulate an opinion, let alone know what they're talking
>about.
>>
>> Masengill Douche
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oooooh! That's really funny. Especially from someone who equates himslef with
a sucker. Give an Aersopace guy an anonymous ID and he starts to think he's a
man ....
Samhain
(Michael Dash) wrote:
> Oooooh! That's really funny. Especially from someone who equates
himslef with
> a sucker. Give an Aersopace guy an anonymous ID and he starts to think
he's a
> man ....
I thought it was funny... even though I didn't write it. Whatta
comeback. You're such a manly-man. I don't see you going out and making
challenges to others in the group. If you wanna talk crap about the
machismo (read male bullshit) of others on the net, why not meet in
person? Go duke it out in the parking lot. Obviously, everyone'd have to
agree upon neutral ground--you gotta be pretty stupid (or macho) to fight
on someone else's territory (a la Gracie challenge matches). Who have you
defeated? What makes one a "man". Kicking ass? Who's ass have you
kicked? Typing your name on the net? What about the women who type
theirs? Why don't you respond to the facts and figures of the other
posts? There's no reason to respond to the flames and not the posts.
Fuck this bullshit. Keep your thoughts focused on the topic. You
discredit yourself by responding to flames and ignoring posts related to
the topic.
While I no longer have the time to workout, I wouldn't mind a little
sparring match--schedule permitting. Nothing like a challenge match. My
only goal in the martial arts now is to have fun, and sparring is fun.
THIS IS NOT A CHALLENGE. I'm serious. Sparring partners aren't always
easy to find, esp. those who have similar goals. Hmmm... Sparring may
sound a little too confrontational. How 'bout a workout at a local park?
Torrance has a few nice parks. I've used the one on Inglewood (near
190th, I think) and it's pretty isolated. Most people tend to use the
other side of the park. Sound like fun to you? Anybody else? I'm not
looking for a fight. Just recreation. I think it would cool down a lot
of the flames seen on this group.
That point was brought up a while ago. Back when someone asked if we'd
really act like this in person. I dunno. Maybe. The Lollipop Kid,
probably would :) An enlightening experience, I'm sure. If security is
a problem, we (Dash) can use my uncle as a go-between. He's an officer
who trains at the Torrance GJJ academy. The L Kid has also previously
mentioned (somewhere) that he knows a GJJ student. I'm interested, doubt
the L Kid is, but, maybe... Oh well. Back to work.
Samhain
> Boxing is not a MA event and is completely irrelevant. Kickboxing is more
> reasonable. So what if Tyson got $22 million for a fight. That doesn't
> happen with martial arts. This is because boxing is a mainstream viewing
sport
> (like football) and the general public is willing to pay to se it.
Boxing PPV
> events usually charge over 30 or 40 bucks. If you confuse boxing with
martial
> arts events, then you won't understand why MA makes less money. For example,
> you couldn't come up with a story a bout someone winning a martial arts
> tournament fro $22 million. Next, someone will try to say tennis is
> comprable. Sheesh! Sorry, but this wasn't a good attempt. Limit your input
> to data on MA tournaments please.
>
> M. Dash
What is a martial arts event? Does involve two guys trying to beat the
Hell outta each other? Does it involve punching, headbutts, and thumbs in
the eye? Boxing, kickboxing, the UFC, and karate all have these things.
The difference between boxing and kickboxing are the allowance of
backfists and kicks. Is kicking what makes kickboxing a martial art, and
boxing a sport? Then, how can GJJ, Judo, Aikido, etc. be martial arts?
Is the fact that boxing is more popular and makes a lot more money exclude
it from being a martial art? Most boxers can beat the living shit outta
most punch/kick stylists. Why? Because they're better at beating the
shit outta people. That's what they train for. Why do you think the
minimum kicking rules were placed in kickboxing? Or did you even know
that? It's because when k-boxing first came out, it was just a bunch of
point karatekas. When boxers came into the events, they literally
slaughtered the pointers. Sorry ass crap about rules, tradition, and
honor is what keeps most martial arts from making the money that boxing
does. Boxing has proved over and over again that they are light years
ahead in terms of attack and defense with the hands. Tennis doesn't
involve any personal hitting or contact, so it probably isn't a martial
art. If you look at some karate tourneys all they do is forms. That's
nothing like the UFC, boxing, or kickboxing. How can you critcize boxing
as not being a MA when at least they hit each other. Or is the UFC just a
bunch of performers doing 2-man forms? That's why pro-wrestling doesn't
make as much money per fight as boxing. But. they sure as Hell compete
income wise (they also charge in the $30-40 range for PPV). Boxing is
also popular because of the betting that takes place. No one bets on
pro-wrestling. I doubt that any gambler would put money on the UFC for
the same reasons.
Come up with a stronger argument. Tennis! Sheesh, what a terrible argument.
Tim
> >You're kidding, right? Who is Benny "the Jet?" Yikes...only one of the
> >most well known full contact fighters of all time! As to whether or not
> >he'd beat Gracie...that all depends on who's best prepared for the fight.
> >But, I'll bet he'd at LEAST give Gracie one heck of a good fight!
>
> I'll take that bet! Benny will go to the ground and will be totally lost to
> Royce's grounfighting skills. Becuae of the hard feelings, Royce is sure to
> injure him. In fact I'll bet that Benny doesn't even accept Royce's
> challenge. He'll weasel out of it somehow!
>
> M. Dash
Benny wouldn't stand a chance because at the UFC, you have to fight
according to the rules which don't favor the Jet's fighting style. Now,
if Benny were allowed to eye gouge or bite, he would poke Royce's eyes
out, bite his finger off forcing Royce to submit... I don't think Royce
would even consent to fight according to those rules...
Lates!
----------------------------------
Tim <body...@netcom.com>
"Finger" for PGP v2.6.1 Public Key
VIGMOND EDWARD J
>
>
>Well, as far as martial arts competitions go, it is relatively low.
>Professional boxers and kickboxers (yes, these count) get a MUCH higher
>purse. Remember when Mike Tyson got paid $22 Million for 90 seconds
Actually, kickboxers get very poorly. At our club we have the
champ in four of the five major kickboxing divisions at 147 lbs, Paul Biafore,
who makes practically no money. He only does it because he loves it.
He would faint if he were offered $20 000 for a fight. One tenth of that
figure is more realistic for him and $500 for less established fighters.
Considering how hard these fighters train for a fight and the punishment they
take, the pay is a pittance.
>against Michael Spinks? Consdiring that some of Royce's matches have been
>that short, and he has at least 3 a night (assuming he wins the whole
>thing) that's about $20K a fight, which is about 1/1000th the previous
>example (I'll admit it's an extreme one...) but in the championship
>matches, it is not uncommon to have multi-million dollar purses. which
>makes $60K for a MUCH more serious chance for injury in at least 3 fights
>(you have to win to get it) very low in comparison...
>
>
>-Izz
>
>
Ed Vigmond
Brad Grace
>
>Benny wouldn't stand a chance because at the UFC, you have to fight
>according to the rules which don't favor the Jet's fighting style. Now,
>if Benny were allowed to eye gouge or bite, he would poke Royce's eyes
>out, bite his finger off forcing Royce to submit... I don't think Royce
>would even consent to fight according to those rules...
>
If those options were available why don't you think Royce would
use them. The Gracie teach mainly self defense, and eye gouging and biting
are used in self defense.
Sweeney, David J.
I was going to place this in the message reply to Gracie being hypocrite,
but the point of eye gouging and biting was brought up in here.
The UFC that the gracie's run does have rules, no biting, eye gouging...
(thats from the mention of The Jet fighting Gracie with NO RULES)
I'm courious how much experience the person talking down about Gracie
Jujitsu has in Gracie JJS..
From what I've seen (which isn't that much) Gracie does have some unique
training. and when talking about the system and Joyce's record
(different post) just remember...HE'S THE BABY...you want to look at
records check out Hixon Gracie's (sp) undefeted record against HUNDREDS
of fighters...many consecutively.
I'm not that impressed with the UFC, but its entertainment...and no
reason to down play an art or practioner of an art.
The Lollipop Kid
wrote:
> P.S. I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that Michael Dash would show up. He doesn't seem
> to want to be involved with ANYTHING that is not within the "cocoon" of
> the Gracie Academy.
hehe...
Samhain
arc...@benji.Colorado.EDU (Haywire) wrote:
> none (Samhain) writes:
> >pro-wrestling. I doubt that any gambler would put money on the UFC for
> >the same reasons.
> I disagree. The reason no one bets on Pro-Wrestling is that
> IT'S FIXED.
That's what I meant by the comment. But, HEY! Tell ya what. I got
this tournament I'm setting up against me and these really tough guys.
Now, these guys are REALLY tough. One guy was the Michigan state
wrestling champ who spent his whole life training in TKD in Guam. The
other guy is a capoeira champ from Alaska, he's 350 lb.s and an incredible
4 feet tall! Rumor has it he uses his capoeira to choke out walrus's.
The last guy I found at a bar taking on a waitress using his own personal
style of Hey Dhali Lama Yama YIn Yang bow tie box singing. After the
waitress was through stomping on his head I picked up him up, gave him a
bottle of OE, and now he's ready to fight. Wanna bet? How 'bout you give
me 100:1 odds that I win the tourney? Huh? Awww come on. I'll only
fight once a month... Please? Come on, ain't choo a gamblin' man?
>The reason no one would bet on the UFC is that there is more than
> one fight in a row, so there is no way to determine the outcome. No matter
> how good someone is, they can be worn down before the end of the tournament
> and lose to someone who's had it easy.
> (Royce might have beat everybody there had he only had to fight one of them)
>
If there was a way to determine the outcome everyone would bet on the
same performer. That's why it's called gambling.
> However, I think the UFC has the potential for A LOT of betting,
> if they just changed the rules to be one fight for each person.
> If the UFC had different sets of fights each time, it might work.
> Here's my newest idea.
> Take this example, for instance:
> Royce, Kimo, Jennum and Hackney all fight in the Semifinal
> round since they've passed the qualifying round in a previous UFC.
> (I know this didn't actually happen, but humor me and pretend it did)
The only way anyone would put any money into these fights would be if
the Gracie family stepped down and let a neutral board (elected?) call out
all the shots. Note that the Gracie groupies are the main supporters of
the UFC, and not the ma community in general. Why is the UFC known as a
Gracie event? Because it is. Other sanctions aren't connected with it
because they're not. It's a Gracie tourney. You don't bet on that kind
of event.
> I know this is wild, but give it a chance, puh-leeze?
It wouldn't be the UFC anymore, now would it? Heavy emhasis on the C.
A step further would be to arrange it like boxing. A large amount of
fighters all fighting throughout the year. Toward the end of the first
year have a champioship. After that create a ranking system, and arrange
it in the form of a boxing PPV. The championship match with a couple of
undercards. The problem with this setup is that the Gracies wouldn't be
able to say that they're the champs until after the first year, and they
may have trouble with their marketing. But, then again, that would make
the UFC a sport, like boxing. And, according to Michael Dash, it would no
longer be a martial art.
>
> Haywire();
Samhain
> Michael,
>
> I hat to be the one to inform you, but boxing IS martial art! You may not
> think so, but it does count. Nevertheless, PPV for the UFC in my area was
> 34.95, so I can't believe that they can't give the winner some more money.
>
>
> -Izz
$34.95?!?! Somebody got ripped off... BAD!
Samhain
"Sweeney, David J." <djsw...@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> From what I've seen (which isn't that much) Gracie does have some unique
> training. and when talking about the system and Joyce's record
> (different post) just remember...HE'S THE BABY...you want to look at
> records check out Hixon Gracie's (sp) undefeted record against HUNDREDS
> of fighters...many consecutively.
I've been told that Reuler (SP?) is the smallest, and maybe even the
youngest of the Gracie brothers. However, I've also been told that he's
the meanest of them all.
>
> I'm not that impressed with the UFC, but its entertainment...and no
> reason to down play an art or practioner of an art.
Precisely, it's entertainment. It is not proof of actual effectiveness
of the art. The main argument is that the UFC is not a valid environment
to prove this. That is the reason for the downplay of the practitioner.
The absurdity of some (Dash's) of their reasons that it is the ultimate
test for all arts is what causes the friction and the flames. It's the
first pay-per-view info-mercial. It's not the proving grounds for the
world's greatest fighter, nor will it ever be.
Haywire
>pro-wrestling. I doubt that any gambler would put money on the UFC for
>the same reasons.
one fight in a row, so there is no way to determine the outcome. No matter
how good someone is, they can be worn down before the end of the tournament
and lose to someone who's had it easy.
(Royce might have beat everybody there had he only had to fight one of them)
However, I think the UFC has the potential for A LOT of betting,
if they just changed the rules to be one fight for each person.
If the UFC had different sets of fights each time, it might work.
Here's my newest idea.
Take this example, for instance:
Royce, Kimo, Jennum and Hackney all fight in the Semifinal
round since they've passed the qualifying round in a previous UFC.
(I know this didn't actually happen, but humor me and pretend it did)
The two winners will go on to fight in the Final round of the next UFC.
Joe Schmoe, Joe Blow, John Doe and 5 other fighters(total 8) fight
in the qualifying round. The four winners will fight in the semifinal round of
the next UFC.
Dude 1 and Dude 2 fight in the final round, because they passed the
semifinal round of the UFC, and the qualifying round of the one before that.
The winner is automatically invited to return in the next UFC in the
qualifying round.
This way, no one has to fight more than one fight per UFC, we get to see a
whole host of fighters, (14 to be exact + alternates)
(in the same number of fights as we have now, so it wouldn't make it longer)
and can you imagine the anticipation for the next UFC, when you know who's
going to fight in the Final Round, and they've both had time to train and
rest? I think the only problem with this idea is that viewers who are new
to the UFC would not understand why they were seeing new fighters every round.
However, it wouldn't detract from the Entertainment value, it would
increase it, and also increase the repeat viewership, because people would
want to see which finalist would win. Whaddya think, Michael, everyone?
A winning idea, if I do say so myself (with no thought to modesty whatsoever).
One other thing. An obvious result is that there would be more than one
champion. So...every once a year or so, have all four Champions from last
(assuming there are four UFC's a year)
year compete in a Special Masters Series UFC (tm).
That person would be the Grand Champion (ooh ahh).
I know this is wild, but give it a chance, puh-leeze?
Haywire();
David J. Sweeney
On 12 Oct 1994, Samhain wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.90.941011...@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu>,
> "Sweeney, David J." <djsw...@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> > From what I've seen (which isn't that much) Gracie does have some unique
> > training. and when talking about the system and Joyce's record
> > (different post) just remember...HE'S THE BABY...you want to look at
> > records check out Hixon Gracie's (sp) undefeted record against HUNDREDS
> > of fighters...many consecutively.
>
> I've been told that Reuler (SP?) is the smallest, and maybe even the
> youngest of the Gracie brothers. However, I've also been told that he's
> the meanest of them all.
Maybe baby wasn't a good word choice. But I believe he is the youngest
with the title of Master in GJJ.
> >
> > I'm not that impressed with the UFC, but its entertainment...and no
> > reason to down play an art or practioner of an art.
>
> Precisely, it's entertainment. It is not proof of actual effectiveness
> of the art. The main argument is that the UFC is not a valid environment
> to prove this. That is the reason for the downplay of the practitioner.
> The absurdity of some (Dash's) of their reasons that it is the ultimate
> test for all arts is what causes the friction and the flames. It's the
> first pay-per-view info-mercial. It's not the proving grounds for the
> world's greatest fighter, nor will it ever be.
>
>
I do see your point. My first impression of people ragging on an art is
defense though. I still think there things to be learned from GJJ.
(even if it only turns out to be what NOT to do)( I don't know enough
about the art to know)
Akfourtyseven
: sparring match--schedule permitting. Nothing like a challenge match. My
: only goal in the martial arts now is to have fun, and sparring is fun.
: THIS IS NOT A CHALLENGE. I'm serious. Sparring partners aren't always
: easy to find, esp. those who have similar goals. Hmmm... Sparring may
: sound a little too confrontational. How 'bout a workout at a local park?
: Torrance has a few nice parks. I've used the one on Inglewood (near
: 190th, I think) and it's pretty isolated. Most people tend to use the
: other side of the park. Sound like fun to you? Anybody else? I'm not
: looking for a fight. Just recreation. I think it would cool down a lot
: of the flames seen on this group.
HEY! THis sounds GREAT! You are the only person on the net other than
myself who has actually been interested in training partners from the
net! I'd LOVE to take you up on this offer!
I need you to give me a REAL I-net address to reach you at. For some
reason, you don't have an address to reply to. Is your account hacked out
or something?
Anyways, I live VERY near the park you talked about and can get there
within a matter of minutes. I have my own pads and gear and will bring
it. THere is also another guy in my class who would like to take
advantage of this offer. He's cool. No egos or anything like that. The
coolest thing in the world would be if all us guys that lvie in S. Ca.
from this newsgroup could train together and party together on occassion.
That would be the coolest!
Samhain, give me an e-mail address to reach you at so we can talk
about this further. And if there are any other people that live out here,
and would like to join us, feel free to e-mail me. We can set up this
thing and make it ALL THE WAY LIVE!
Neil Gatenby
>........ Benny's age didn't stop him
>form slandering the Gracies in his Black Belt interview.
Oh, you believe BB interviews. Well, that tells us a lot.
>If he's too old to fight then he's too old to be saying people are afraid
>to fight him. Whether he backs out or competes and gets a royal
>assbeating doesn't matter, Royce's challenge is real and Benny will be
>viewed as afraid or if he actually fights, an inferior fighter. Basically
>the Gracies called his bluff.
only an asshole of the highest order would regard someone as being AFRAID
for refusing to enter the UFC ring. Cautious, sensible, level-headed, and
mature are more the sort words I have in mind.
>Once the fight went to the ground Benny would be lost. Not only
>that, Royce would have a grudge to settle and would brutalize him. Benny
>knows he can't win and he'll come up with some excuse to not fight.
brutalize him? over some argument about a sporting event? isn't that a bit
extreme?
Neil
DIsrael
Samhain
> P.S. I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that Michael Dash would show up. He doesn't seem
> to want to be involved with ANYTHING that is not within the "cocoon" of
> the Gracie Academy.
But, I thought the Gracie edict was to learn a grappling, in addition
to punching and kicking. That really hurts my feelings. Sheesh. It
seems that he can't handle when someone uses his own arguments more
effectively against himself. I'm still waiting for a decent response from
him. But, then again, he wouldn't be half as funny as if he used a real
argument.
I'll get back to you with some sort of address in the near
future--within the next week I hope. Hopefully, we can get a few more
responses until then so we can make this a fun event, for all. Perhaps
even top the party with dinner at Todai, a restraunt right next door to
the GJJ academy :)
I hope I made it clear enough to all that I didn't call out Dash.
There should be no fear of gunfire, or any other form of hostile
aggression, on my part (AK47 may be a different story, I dunno :) ).
Truthfully, I should be the one with the most fear (gunplay aside) as I'm
probably the shortest and lightest guy here. Not to mention one of the
loudest. So come on. Post or mail to AK so we can all set something up.
Brad Grace
>
>
>
>On 12 Oct 1994, Brad Grace wrote:
>
>>
>> >
>> >Benny wouldn't stand a chance because at the UFC, you have to fight
>> >according to the rules which don't favor the Jet's fighting style. Now,
>> >if Benny were allowed to eye gouge or bite, he would poke Royce's eyes
>> >out, bite his finger off forcing Royce to submit... I don't think Royce
>> >would even consent to fight according to those rules...
>> >
>>
>> If those options were available why don't you think Royce would
>> use them. The Gracie teach mainly self defense, and eye gouging and biting
>> are used in self defense.
>>
>>
>>
>I was going to place this in the message reply to Gracie being hypocrite,
>but the point of eye gouging and biting was brought up in here.
>
>The UFC that the gracie's run does have rules, no biting, eye gouging...
> (thats from the mention of The Jet fighting Gracie with NO RULES)
>
FYI the UFC does officially have no rules, beyond not walking in the ring with
an uzi or cannon. You can eye gouge and bite but you will be penalized financially
for either a thousand or two thousand, I'm not sure which, and that money goes
to the fighter you did it to. The fight will not stop. It probably will stop if
it goes on excessively, but they say it will not stop. I heard somewhere where
somebody did it in one of the pre-fights during UFC II, I think it was Weit against
Levicki, but I do not know how this one was handled.
Bradelberg
Stanley Krystek
> >You're kidding, right? Who is Benny "the Jet?" Yikes...only one of the
> >most well known full contact fighters of all time! As to whether or not
> >he'd beat Gracie...that all depends on who's best prepared for the fight.
> >But, I'll bet he'd at LEAST give Gracie one heck of a good fight!
> I'll take that bet! Benny will go to the ground and will be totally lost to
> Royce's grounfighting skills. Becuae of the hard feelings, Royce is sure to
> injure him. In fact I'll bet that Benny doesn't even accept Royce's
> challenge. He'll weasel out of it somehow!
> M. Dash
It seems to me that if Royce has "hard feelings" and cannot control them
when he is fighting an opponent that maybe he is not a good example of
what a martial artist is or should be, there are more to the MA than
the full contact matches and the spirit of competition should be a
friendly one, even if there is bad feelings.
M. Dash commenting that Royce will take Benny to the ground might be true but
there will never be the fight, especially since Benny is not the "Great"
fighter he once was. He was a proven champion and any victory over him now
would not reflect on his past skills which is really what the Gracies should be
interested in. In fact, the the three UFC's there has not been a fighter the
caliber of Benny "the Jet", at least not when he was in his prime, I saw him
fight a couple of times and he was very impressive and efficient.
I think Royce's challenge in Black Belt was a childish and outdated form
of bullying that you might expect in high school when you got called out by
the playground bully. I believe that the spirit of MA encourages self confidence
and respect, not boldness or public displays of vengence.
Grow up!
--
Stan Krystek
Bristol-Myers Squibb
kry...@bms.com
Neil Gatenby
>most well known full contact fighters of all time! As to whether or not
>he'd beat Gracie...that all depends on who's best prepared for the fight.
>But, I'll bet he'd at LEAST give Gracie one heck of a good fight!
Mad Mike Dash responds
>I'll take that bet! Benny will go to the ground and will be totally lost to
>Royce's grounfighting skills. Becuae of the hard feelings, Royce is sure to
>injure him. In fact I'll bet that Benny doesn't even accept Royce's
>challenge. He'll weasel out of it somehow!
Always good to read a clear, objective fight assesment on rec.m-a.
Neil
Samhain
wrote:
AK47, don't know if this e-mail account works so I'm posting as well.
If you can make it to Anza elementary school on La Cienega between 123rd
st. and 120th st. I can make it on Sunday. If not I can also make it to
that middle school in Torrance on Inglewood. I thick it's the one on the
left going north... Anyways, if you can't get in touch with me to
confirm, I'll get onto the irc at 3:30pm today (Friday) under channel
aikido. I'll go to Anza elementary at 10 AM. I'll be the guy with the
long hair and the Samhain T-shirt.
Later,
Samhain
David J. Sweeney
I did not know that info about the fines...Thank You for the correction.
( i think i'm going to drop the subject.. does it really deserve all this
press? :)
Akfourtyseven
: to punching and kicking. That really hurts my feelings. Sheesh. It
: seems that he can't handle when someone uses his own arguments more
: effectively against himself. I'm still waiting for a decent response from
: him. But, then again, he wouldn't be half as funny as if he used a real
: argument.
Yea, ain't it the truth.
: even top the party with dinner at Todai, a restraunt right next door to
: the GJJ academy :)
Yea. Maybe Michael will be looking out the window of the GJJ academy
telling Rorion and the rest of the gang to come kick our asses cuz we're
not 100% devoted GJJ worshippers.
: aggression, on my part (AK47 may be a different story, I dunno :) ).
Naw. I'd never shoot anyone that didn't wanna shoot me. Now if they DID,
then we can play that game too......
Brad Grace
>
>In article <Pine.SOL.3.90.941013...@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu>,
> > >
>> > >The UFC that the gracie's run does have rules, no biting, eye gouging...
>> > > (thats from the mention of The Jet fighting Gracie with NO RULES)
>> > >
>> >
>> > FYI the UFC does officially have no rules, beyond not walking in the ring with
>> > an uzi or cannon. You can eye gouge and bite but you will be penalized financially
>> > for either a thousand or two thousand, I'm not sure which, and that money goes
>> > to the fighter you did it to. The fight will not stop. It probably will stop if
>> > it goes on excessively, but they say it will not stop. I heard somewhere where
>> > somebody did it in one of the pre-fights during UFC II, I think it was Weit against
>> > Levicki, but I do not know how this one was handled.
>> >
>> > Bradelberg
>> >
>
>Hey, Bradelburg, the UFC DOES have rules and they are as you stated.
>Saying that the UFC does not have rules and that if you bite or eye
>gouge, you only get fined and the fight does not stop is as stupid as saying
>pass interference or offsides in football isn't against the rules, if you do
>it, you just get penalized yards and/or a down. Biting and eye gouging
>is against the rules in the UFC as P.I. or offsides is in football.
>Just because you don't automatically lose if you do that (in football or
>the UFC) doesn't make it any less against the rules.
>
>Lates!
>----------------------------------
As far as techiques go there are no barriers for what you want to do. I was simply
stating an infraction int he tournament. Maybe my wording was wrong, but the fact still
remains is that there are no rules in the actual fight. If you want to eye gouge go ahead, just pay the
price. Maybe I'm just full of it.?
The Lollipop Kid
(Michael Dash) wrote:
> >> Masengill Douche
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Oooooh! That's really funny. Especially from someone who equates himslef with
^^^^^^^
> a sucker. Give an Aersopace guy an anonymous ID and he starts to think he's a
^^^^^^^^^
> man ....
Nice typing, Tough-Guy! Some guy with a shag who can lift 80 pounds
with his left pinky isn't automatically a "man". Shags, hehe. Obviously
typing skills don't make one a "man", 'cause you obviously think you are
one. Sex, nationality, ethnicity, etc. doesn't make a person better than
anyone else. Nor does one's ability in contact sports make them better.
Everyone on this planet has a purpose. So you beat up some "nerd" in
third grade. He's the one who'll perform surgery on you when you get your
ass kicked by a better fighter (and there *ALWAYS* is a better fighter).
I feel the flames licking at my .sig file, so chill. Rickson is often
described as the best fighter in the world; he's gonna die one day, so
Death must be the Ultimate Fighter. In fact Death will beat us all, so it
really doesn't matter. (I know, this belongs in
alt.religion.bible.thumper) Dude, don't take it personally; I'm only
talking to your 'Net personality. I only talk shit to you and BK to try
to make you realize that, like an fudge tunnel, everyone has an opinion.
Gregory E. Garland
>
>As far as techiques go there are no barriers for what you want to do.
>I was simply stating an infraction int he tournament. Maybe my wording
>was wrong, but the fact still remains is that there are no rules in the
>actual fight. If you want to eye gouge go ahead, just pay the
>price. Maybe I'm just full of it.?
No, you just don't understand the cult of machismo that surrounds this
type of dueling. For people that engage in this kind of activity, obeying
'the code' is far more important than winning or losing. If there is pressure
to avoid eye gouging and other techniques as somehow being unethical or
dishonorable then they are basicly _not_ going to be tried at all except
as a desperation act by someone who all of the sudden decides he really
does want to win at all costs. Usually by then he's already on the verge
of losing anyway; none of the particpants actually go into the ring
intending to use them.
--
Greg Garland - Alive, occupying space, and exerting gravitational force
MS 62-024, Harris Semiconductor Sector, PO Bx 883,
Melbourne FL 32905. g...@beep.mis.semi.harris.com
"Never let the facts interfere with your perception of reality."
Tim
> >
> > >The UFC that the gracie's run does have rules, no biting, eye gouging...
> > > (thats from the mention of The Jet fighting Gracie with NO RULES)
> > >
> >
> > FYI the UFC does officially have no rules, beyond not walking in the ring with
> > an uzi or cannon. You can eye gouge and bite but you will be penalized financially
> > for either a thousand or two thousand, I'm not sure which, and that money goes
> > to the fighter you did it to. The fight will not stop. It probably will stop if
> > it goes on excessively, but they say it will not stop. I heard somewhere where
> > somebody did it in one of the pre-fights during UFC II, I think it was Weit against
> > Levicki, but I do not know how this one was handled.
> >
> > Bradelberg
> >
Hey, Bradelburg, the UFC DOES have rules and they are as you stated.
Saying that the UFC does not have rules and that if you bite or eye
gouge, you only get fined and the fight does not stop is as stupid as saying
pass interference or offsides in football isn't against the rules, if you do
it, you just get penalized yards and/or a down. Biting and eye gouging
is against the rules in the UFC as P.I. or offsides is in football.
Just because you don't automatically lose if you do that (in football or
the UFC) doesn't make it any less against the rules.
Lates!
----------------------------------