True "Tanto" history?
Chas Clements
A. G. Russell writes: >
> In article <5jdnoh$i9u$1...@newman.pcisys.net>, Chas says...
> >
> >mel sorg <mel...@parkrapids.polaristel.net> writes: > You may be assured that Lynn
> >> > > >Thompson is revered and respected throughout the custom knife industry
> >> > for
> >> > > >his ethics and integrity. Good Luck to you, Chas
> >> > >
> >> > > I am sorry to inject myself into this but, I need to ask who is Chas
> >> > Clements and
> >> > > what empowers him to speak for the entire custom knife industry?
> >> > >
> >> > > Is this some more of the humor like Joe calling Ron and Mike amatuers??
> >
> >> > chas.i know your not speaking for ANY of the knife makers i know (a bunch)
> >> > the point of his bowie was made great light of at the last hammer-in i was
> >> > at, as well as his unabashed carnie doublespeak.other than that hes a great
> >> > showman.
> >
> >> Guess he did know quality when he saw it :) Just hope Lynn never caught
> >> him!
> >> madpoet
> >Doesn't it seem to you that the knife industry brings out the best and the
> >worst in people? A knife should reflect the integrity of its' manufacturer
> >I cannot think of another aspect of the knife that is as important.
> >Chas 'just another knife guy with an opinion' Clements
>
>
> Chas;
>
> everybody is entitled to an opinion. Neither you nor anyone else is entitled to
> speak for my opinion. You did this and you were wrong. snip
> If you want to worship Mr. Thompson that is up to you. Do NOT however,
> speak for Bob Lum, Jim Merritt, Wayne Goddard, myself or anybody else in
> this industry who has had dealings with him.
snip I don't think that Chuck Buck, Patrick Gaffney (the Edge).
> Bruce Voyles (Blade Magazine, past), Greg Walker (Fighting Knives),
> Stewart Taylor (Taylor Knives), Mike Stewart of BlackJack knives.
>
> Once again, if you want to talk of things about which you know absolutely
> nothing do not express those things as the opinions of other people.
snip
> A. G. Russell
God you're lame, A.G. Take a humor pill, did the sarcasm escape you?
Not all of us were born on a box of rocks, A.G. Go back to sleep. Chas
steve_...@3mail.3com.com
In article <5jiln1$r1e$1...@newman.pcisys.net>,
Chas Clements <@mail.pcisys.net> wrote:
>
> God you're lame, A.G. Take a humor pill, did the sarcasm escape you?
> Not all of us were born on a box of rocks, A.G. Go back to sleep. Chas
We are honored to have a few of the true pillars of the cutlery industry
contributing to this news group. You only show your own astounding
ignorance by insulting one of them.
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Tim Flanagan
Greg Dilley - gregory.dilley@EBay wrote:
>
> Tim Flanagan replies;
>
> >A.G. is probably one of the
> >most influential sources that led to where the US custom knife industry
> >is today.
>
> > my feelings run
> >deeper than that for blatant lacks of disrespect like you've shown to
> >A.G.,
>
> Tim, you can idolize A.G. Russell until the cows come home, and you may
> very well be on the money in your opinion of him - however -
Greg-
I do not IDOLIZE A.G., certainly not involving anything bovine, nor
their dwellings, and my opinion may be well out of the X-ring, BUT I do
have a rather low opinion of prople who never learned common courtesy
and respect for another's thoughts and ideas. I respect your response to
my post- your response was thought out, without animosity (that I
detected), and the salient points were brought ot the forefront without
offending me (well, the idolize thing was a bit much, but...ahhh, so
what). This is the kind of response we usually see on this newsgroup- I
don't read too many others, but this is by far the most civil forum I've
run across. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the tools
that we are all discussing can also be used as, oh, I don't
know,...WEAPONS??!! ;-)
> On the NET, everyone has the same status, which is damn near none.
> That's the reality of the net.
>
> And that is why most authorities on any specific subject are reluctant
> to post, because they are within their rights to expect a certain amount
> of respect and know they won't get it on usenet.
See my above reply regarding basic respect for other's ideas. Here in
rec.knives, I think most would agree that although we have a certain
amount of disagreement, even occaisionally bent feelings, overall, we
are civil to each other. This civility is not shown by the disregard
that Chas showed to A.G. in his last post with the "box of rocks" thing.
Still don't get that... Had Chas replied to one of YOUR post like he did
to A.G.'s, I have pulled out the poisoned pen, er, keyboard and still
written what I did.
> Everyone posts at their own risk - period. The only weight that carries
> over on the newsgroups exists in the words they post.
>
> I respect what A.G. Russell has done for the knife world also, but frankly
> his reply regarding Lynn Thompson didn't have much useful information
> and was just an allusion to some non-specific behavior on the
> part of Thompson. Wow, big contribution.
As far as what A.G. wrote substantively, yes, there was not much
"useful" information regarding knives per se. However, A.G. was speaking
for himself in saying that he did not want his opinion told to him by
reading somebody else's post. I would feel the same way if you replied
to one of the posts that I wrote last week about the Viele and Mini-AFCK
and told others that "Tim feels that the Mini-AFCK is a patently bad
design due to his testing, and therefore nobody should buy it," and you
had never spoken to me or corresponded about my feelings for the two
knives. I'd hope you'd feel the same way if sombody usurped your
opinion-making process.
In all, my post was an attempt to teach manners to someone who was a bit
lacking in the social graces.
BTW, I own a Trialmaster, Magnum Tanto, Twistmaster and Tanto Ultralock
by CS. Like 'em all. Compared to the custom stuff it falls short. As far
as the carnie mentality, it is there at CS, but not in a terrible way-
he's just a salesman who's learned the ropes and succeeded.
--
Regards,
Tim
R Miller
<snip>
> > Chas;
> >
> > everybody is entitled to an opinion. Neither you nor anyone else is
entitled to
> > speak for my opinion. You did this and you were wrong. snip
> > If you want to worship Mr. Thompson that is up to you. Do NOT however,
> > speak for Bob Lum, Jim Merritt, Wayne Goddard, myself or anybody else
in
> > this industry who has had dealings with him.
> snip I don't think that Chuck Buck, Patrick Gaffney (the Edge).
> > Bruce Voyles (Blade Magazine, past), Greg Walker (Fighting Knives),
> > Stewart Taylor (Taylor Knives), Mike Stewart of BlackJack knives.
> >
> > Once again, if you want to talk of things about which you know
absolutely
> > nothing do not express those things as the opinions of other people.
> snip
> > A. G. Russell
> God you're lame, A.G. Take a humor pill, did the sarcasm escape you?
> Not all of us were born on a box of rocks, A.G. Go back to sleep. Chas
===================================================
Chas,
As an outsider reading this thread, seems to me that A.G. & the rest seem
to have it bang on........ What you said & may have meant didn't come
through. Sarcasm doesn't come through email very well if at all.
Lets get back to the subject at hand...........
Bob M.
================================================
Robert...@mindlink.bc.ca
E. Paul Mayhan
> As an outsider reading this thread, seems to me that A.G. & the rest seem
> to have it bang on........ What you said & may have meant didn't come
> through. Sarcasm doesn't come through email very well if at all.
>
I caught it, I just didn't say anything. Of course, I have been known to
be a litte sarcastic myself, and I am able to recognize it, being an
expert and all...
--
Paul Mayhan- Any resemblance to any normal person, living or dead, is
purely coincidental.
Tim Flanagan
Chas Clements wrote:
>
> A. G. Russell writes: >
> > In article <5jdnoh$i9u$1...@newman.pcisys.net>, Chas says...
> > >
> > >mel sorg <mel...@parkrapids.polaristel.net> writes: > You may be assured that Lynn
> > >> > > >Thompson is revered and respected throughout the custom knife industry
> > >> > for
> > >> > > >his ethics and integrity. Good Luck to you, Chas
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I am sorry to inject myself into this but, I need to ask who is Chas
> > >> > Clements and
> > >> > > what empowers him to speak for the entire custom knife industry?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Is this some more of the humor like Joe calling Ron and Mike amatuers??
> > >
> > >> > chas.i know your not speaking for ANY of the knife makers i know (a bunch)
> > >> > the point of his bowie was made great light of at the last hammer-in i was
> > >> > at, as well as his unabashed carnie doublespeak.other than that hes a great
> > >> > showman.
> > >
> > >> Guess he did know quality when he saw it :) Just hope Lynn never caught
> > >> him!
> > >> madpoet
> > >Doesn't it seem to you that the knife industry brings out the best and the
> > >worst in people? A knife should reflect the integrity of its' manufacturer
> > >I cannot think of another aspect of the knife that is as important.
> > >Chas 'just another knife guy with an opinion' Clements
> >
> >
> >
> > everybody is entitled to an opinion. Neither you nor anyone else is entitled to
> > speak for my opinion. You did this and you were wrong. snip
> > If you want to worship Mr. Thompson that is up to you. Do NOT however,
> > speak for Bob Lum, Jim Merritt, Wayne Goddard, myself or anybody else in
> > this industry who has had dealings with him.
> snip I don't think that Chuck Buck, Patrick Gaffney (the Edge).
> > Bruce Voyles (Blade Magazine, past), Greg Walker (Fighting Knives),
> > Stewart Taylor (Taylor Knives), Mike Stewart of BlackJack knives.
> >
> > Once again, if you want to talk of things about which you know absolutely
> > nothing do not express those things as the opinions of other people.
> snip
> > A. G. Russell
>
> God you're lame, A.G. Take a humor pill, did the sarcasm escape you?
> Not all of us were born on a box of rocks, A.G. Go back to sleep. Chas
Chas-
I need to respond to this. Having not seen you on rec.knives much until
the past couple of weeks, I thought, as I do with every relatively
new/infrequent name I see- "give them time." However, this time I was
wrong. This was probably the rudest reply I've seen to any posts (even
those Cutco posts were a "cut" above this). A.G. is probably one of the
most influential sources that led to where the US custom knife industry
is today. Now, if you'd like to post YOUR opinions, fine, do so- I do
it all the time. But I do it in a manner that shows respect for other's
ideas even if I disagree with them. Of course, now and then, somebody's
going to get their feathers ruffled and you'll have a "lively"
discussion - see most of my posts from last week- no personal atacks!
But personal attacks/insults are not required to get ideas across in
this forum, and are frowned upon by the regular users. Well, actually,
"frowned upon" is a little lightweight in my opinion, my feelings run
deeper than that for blatant lacks of disrespect like you've shown to
A.G., but I'm not going to lash out as you did. Also, it's not my job to
moderate this forum, but these kind of posts disgust me, and when they
infrequently appear, it's best to nip the problem in the bud, IMNSHO.
As far as the sarcasm- I thought I caught a bit, but the rest of your
post doesn't further a sarcastic tone, so I guess I missed it too.
Personally, I think I can be very sarcastic or very funny as the
situation warrants (maybe some of the other regulars don't like or don't
get my sense of humor, but I've yet to receive complaints) but none of
it is done in a mean-spirited way. (Jeez- I'm starting to sound like my
father!) Anyway, maybe you just need to hone your own humor skills,
rather than insult others. Actually, that's a good idea, because I also
missed the humor/sarcasm/POINT of the "box of rocks" comment.
I also did a little research on you and came up with a few posts from
other areas, that I've quoted below, so that others may draw their own
conclusions. We don't really know much about you in the knife world, so
here are a couple of your posts that I pulled off dejanews: (I numbered
them)
________________________________________________________________________
(1.)
Subject: Chas Clements Cases & Goods
From: Chas Clements <10252...@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 1996/01/21
Message-Id: <4du5kk$l5t$6...@mhafc.production.compuserve.com>
Newsgroups: rec.sport.billiard
[More Headers]
I make fine cue cases, restore antique and collectible cases by
other makers, make ball cases and accessory bags. My work is
profiled in Stein & Rubinos' Encyclopedia of Billiards. Send me a
snail address, and I will send you a brochure. Best Wishes, Chas
--
Chas Clements |"It's fighting,
1741 Dallas Street |not folkdancing!"
Aurora CO 80010-2018 |Internet: Compuserve
Phone (303)364-0403 Fax: 303-739-9824
________________________________________________________________________
(2.)
Subject: Re: American macho knifemen
From: Chas Clements <@mail.pcisys.net>
Date: 1997/04/21
Message-Id: <5jg0u8$7oe$1...@newman.pcisys.net>
Newsgroups: rec.martial-arts
[More Headers]
barry glynn <nq...@dial.pipex.com> writes: > PSYCHOMOUS wrote:
> > It appears to me that Jolly Ol' England isn't exactly the land of peace
> > and tranquility either.
> You should have because many bloody stupid Americans are still supporting
> them - the IRA.
> The point I was trying to make was that the proliferation of arms etc.
> held by the common man only increases the likely hood of violence on the
> street.
> Did I say Britain was without violence? of course I didn't. But you don't
> have the brains to understand that. If that is a breach of Internet
> manners then too bad. Don't use something like the IRA bombs as a
> flippant repost.
"Common" man. "Bloody stupid...." Screw you, you weasel walking
groundcrawler!
If you people would get out of Ireland and treat your brothers as you
have treated
every African, Asian and other country you had to give up when you lost
your 'dominion, you wouldn't have the freedom fighters blowing up your
cafes',
stores and trying out your politicians. As long as you have personal
weapons,
the Kings' men won't scrub your nose in it. Get a knife, get a life!
Nothing personal, asshole, Chas
_______________________________________________________________________
(3.)
Article 61 of 766
Subject: Re: Special Sheathes for fine knives
From: joe...@msn.fullfeed.com (Joe Long)
Date: 1995/12/25
Message-Id: <4bmpq7$8...@tricia.msn.fullfeed.com>
Newsgroups: rec.knives
[More Headers]
Chas Clements <10252...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
> Chas Clements, sheathmaker, does fine and ornamented sheathes for
> fine custom and specialty knives. Any carry system, any
> ornamentation, gold & silver, stones, ivory, etc. As seen in
> Knives Annual, Gun Digest, FK, KI, Blade, Sporting Blades, etc.
> Manufacturers prototypes, catalog items, accessory packs, etc.
> E-mail snail address for brochure, call, FAX or write to below
> address.
> --
> Chas Clements |"It's fighting,
> 1741 Dallas Street |not folkdancing!"
> Aurora CO 80010-2018 |Internet: Compuserve
> PhoneFax: 303-364-0403
One or two more unmarked ads, and this Clements guy will wrest a
rather dubious distinction from the Cutco crowd!
________________________________________________________________________
Looks like maybe I wasn't too far off the mark...
Plus, the email address supplied is not valid- hmmmmmm.
--
Regards,
Tim
Greg Dilley - gregory.dilley@EBay
Tim Flanagan replies;
>A.G. is probably one of the
>most influential sources that led to where the US custom knife industry
>is today.
> my feelings run
>deeper than that for blatant lacks of disrespect like you've shown to
>A.G.,
Tim, you can idolize A.G. Russell until the cows come home, and you may
very well be on the money in your opinion of him - however -
On the NET, everyone has the same status, which is damn near none.
That's the reality of the net.
And that is why most authorities on any specific subject are reluctant
to post, because they are within their rights to expect a certain amount
of respect and know they won't get it on usenet.
Everyone posts at their own risk - period. The only weight that carries
over on the newsgroups exists in the words they post.
I respect what A.G. Russell has done for the knife world also, but frankly
his reply regarding Lynn Thompson didn't have much useful information
and was just an allusion to some non-specific behavior on the
part of Thompson. Wow, big contribution.
Greg
Greg
Mike P. Swaim
gr...@antizen.ebay.sun.com (Greg Dilley - gregory.dilley@EBay) wrote:
>Tim Flanagan replies;
>>A.G. is probably one of the
>>most influential sources that led to where the US custom knife industry
>>is today.
>> my feelings run
>>deeper than that for blatant lacks of disrespect like you've shown to
>>A.G.,
>Tim, you can idolize A.G. Russell until the cows come home, and you may
>very well be on the money in your opinion of him - however -
I don't idolize A.G. Russell, but I damn sure RESPECT him. Big
difference there. Pity that more folks were never taught basic
respect.
>On the NET, everyone has the same status, which is damn near none.
>That's the reality of the net.
This isn't a status issue. That post would have offended me no matter
who it was directed at. The reason is that the poster showed no
respect for the person he was attacking and did not contribute in any
meaningful way to the discussion. He behaved as a child.
>And that is why most authorities on any specific subject are reluctant
>to post, because they are within their rights to expect a certain amount
>of respect and know they won't get it on usenet.
That's a pretty damn sad commentary on what Usenet has become. I'll
not argue that it's not accurate, but it is sad.
>Everyone posts at their own risk - period. The only weight that carries
>over on the newsgroups exists in the words they post.
>I respect what A.G. Russell has done for the knife world also, but frankly
>his reply regarding Lynn Thompson didn't have much useful information
>and was just an allusion to some non-specific behavior on the
>part of Thompson. Wow, big contribution.
If we are to measure the amount of one's contribution as a way of
measuring the implied worth of the individual, then I would question
what level of contribution exists when one poster simply reverts to
sophmoric personal attacks, such as Chas. Clements did to A.G.
I may disagree vehemently with whatever you may say, but I should
surely hope that I have the grace, dignity and sheer logic to disagree
in an agreeable fashion. I would also hope that all who read this
would surely call me on it, if ever I stray from the ideal of simple
respect for others through mannerly conduct.
Mike Swaim mi...@cphl.mindspring.com
a._g._russell
In article <5jjllj$b...@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, gr...@antizen.ebay.sun.com says...
>
>Tim Flanagan replies;
>
>>A.G. is probably one of the
>>most influential sources that led to where the US custom knife industry
>>is today.
>
>> my feelings run
>>deeper than that for blatant lacks of disrespect like you've shown to
>>A.G.,
>
>Tim, you can idolize A.G. Russell until the cows come home, and you may
>very well be on the money in your opinion of him - however -
>
>On the NET, everyone has the same status, which is damn near none.
>That's the reality of the net.
>
>And that is why most authorities on any specific subject are reluctant
>to post, because they are within their rights to expect a certain amount
>of respect and know they won't get it on usenet.
>
>Everyone posts at their own risk - period. The only weight that carries
>over on the newsgroups exists in the words they post.
>
>I respect what A.G. Russell has done for the knife world also, but frankly
>his reply regarding Lynn Thompson didn't have much useful information
>and was just an allusion to some non-specific behavior on the
>part of Thompson. Wow, big contribution.
>
>Greg
>
Greg;
I'm sorry but you missed my point altogeather. I was not trying to contribute
information about Mr. Thompson.
I was disturbed that Mr. Clements was speaking for me and friends of mine.
If I agreed with what he said I would still not want a stranger speaking for
me. Even if it was a joke, I would object.
You are right on with your statement about some of us being reluctant to post.
most of my responses are by e-mail but in the present case I felt that a state-
ment should be made, having made the statement, twice to Mr. Clements and
again to you here it should be clear to every one that I was not attacking
either Mr. Clements or Mr. Thompson. I just did not want anyone putting words
in my mouth.
Thanks for your time and understanding.
A. G.
Tom Carey
this group because of what I heard from others on IKD.I do not agree
with everything thing A.G. thinks about knives and I do not think
highly of Mr. Stewart either.I do respect A.G. very much for his many
contributions to the world of cutlery.The personall attack against him
was uncalled for.Lynn Thompson makes a lot of claims that I do not think
he could do with a knife randomly selected from the production line by
some one that has no connection with his company or him.I do know that
if you take a trailmaster bowie and reprofile with a convex edge it will
do what he says it will.The fact is all these people should get some
respect for their acomplishments despite what I or anybody else thinks
of them personally?I would like to apologize to A.G. for the way he was
treated and I help to see him on rec.knives again.Thank you Tim for
standing up for others who have wrongly attacked on this
forum.
Tom Carey
Chas Clements
A.G. wrote:
> >> > > I am sorry to inject myself into this but, I need to ask who is
> Chas
> >> > Clements and
> >> > > what empowers him to speak for the entire custom knife industry?
> >> > >
> >> > > Is this some more of the humor like Joe calling Ron and Mike
> amatuers??
> >> > chas.i know your not speaking for ANY of the knife makers i know (a
> >bunch)
The 'Carey' post read also and well taken. My opinions on other newsgroups
stem from my unwillingness to be condescended to or insulted. My 'advertising'
is not out of line in the contex (you missed the knife-fighting videos). Your
criticisms are well taken and I will endeavor to post in a more dignified and
reserved fashion. Chas
David Kelleher
Chas Clements wrote:
> My profound apologies for making my private opinions public in this forum.
> The 'Carey' post read also and well taken. My opinions on other newsgroups
> stem from my unwillingness to be condescended to or insulted. My 'advertising'
> is not out of line in the contex (you missed the knife-fighting videos). Your
> criticisms are well taken and I will endeavor to post in a more dignified and
> reserved fashion. Chas
It takes backbone to make a post like this.
Well said Chas!
daithi
HRLY BLADE
In article <335FC4...@knives.com>, David Kelleher <dai...@knives.com>
writes:
>
>It takes backbone to make a post like this.
>Well said Chas!
>daithi
>
>-
sure does
harley
harley
steve_...@3mail.3com.com
In article <5jo0dh$kiu$1...@newman.pcisys.net>,
Chas Clements <@mail.pcisys.net> wrote:
>
> My profound apologies for making my private opinions public in this forum.
> The 'Carey' post read also and well taken. My opinions on other newsgroups
> stem from my unwillingness to be condescended to or insulted. My
'advertising'
> is not out of line in the contex (you missed the knife-fighting videos). Your
> criticisms are well taken and I will endeavor to post in a more dignified and
> reserved fashion. Chas
My apologies too, Mr. Clements. My reply was out of line too.
Best Regards
Harv
Pang
Hello,
: I respect what A.G. Russell has done for the knife world also, but frankly
: his reply regarding Lynn Thompson didn't have much useful information
: and was just an allusion to some non-specific behavior on the
: part of Thompson. Wow, big contribution.
I think that, is called integrity. I believe there used to be a time
when people respected a man for not talking bad about another, and
although I do not know Mr Russell personally, I respect him for not
being a squealer. We do not know what has trespassed between Mr. Russell
and Mr Thompson, so let us not judge.
On the other hand, Lyn Thomsonn seems to be some kind of an arrogant
bats-turd. Always issuing challenges to the 'entire knife industry' to
beat this knife of his or that. But that, is only my opinion.
Pang
PS : The misspelling is intentional. Now they can't sue me.
bob engnath
>I respect what A.G. Russell has done for the knife world also, but frankly
>his reply regarding Lynn Thompson didn't have much useful information
>and was just an allusion to some non-specific behavior on the
>part of Thompson. Wow, big contribution.
>Greg
>Greg
A G setled a suit between him and Thompson. Part of the deal was
that neither one of them could talk about it.
Chas Clements
gr...@earthlink.net (bob engnath) writes: >
> >I respect what A.G. Russell has done for the knife world also, but frankly
> >his reply regarding Lynn Thompson didn't have much useful information
> >and was just an allusion to some non-specific behavior on the
> >part of Thompson. Wow, big contribution.
> >Greg
>
> A G setled a suit between him and Thompson. Part of the deal was
> that neither one of them could talk about it.
I thought I was just misunderstood and my feelings were hurt. You guys
just ganged me for your own porpoises. :>)
brian w edginton
On 29 Apr 1997 16:03:34 GMT, Chas Clements <@mail.pcisys.net> wrote:
>Well, Now I feel so much better. Everybody has an agenda, hunh.
>I thought I was just misunderstood and my feelings were hurt. You guys
>just ganged me for your own porpoises. :>)
Glad you feel better....but you were still wrong.
Live and learn
Brian
thomas wilkinson
When it comes to Mr. Russell I respect him as
much as the next guy.
But the way some of you guys talk you'd think we were
expected to genuflect when he enters the newsgroup.
TW
Steve Harvey <"steve_harvey<delete>"@3mail.3com.com> wrote in article
<336907...@3mail.3com.com>...
> On 29 Apr 1997 16:03:34 GMT, Chas Clements <@mail.pcisys.net> wrote:
>
> > > You guys just ganged me for your own porpoises. :>)
>
> The purpose of my reply was to indicate to Mr. Russell that not everyone
> on rec.knives is a mannerless clod in hopes that he would continue to
> contribute to this forum.
>
> Harv
>