True "Tanto" history?
E. Paul Mayhan
The tanto is a japaneese design. I am not sure how long it has been used,
but I would wager several hundred years. It was origionally in the form of
a dagger with about a six inch blade. It was made just like a Kitana
blade.
Uses? It excells most at fighting. It's secondary point is deadly with
slashes, and it penetrates well with a thrust. I am glad you found a more
peaceful use for it. I made one last summer, and it hasn't been much more
than a curio for me. Cuts watermelons well though.
--
Paul Mayhan- Any resemblance to any normal person, living or dead, is
purely coincidental.
Matthew Robertson
Hi. Me again.
I use a CS Tanto folder (or two) at work, and nobody there is familiar
with the blade pattern. Finally, the unavoidable question was asked:
"where does the shape come from?" Naturally, I avoided the question.
So, where DOES the "tanto" style come from? I've seen the discussions on
the origin and original meaning of the word `tanto', but that's not what I
mean. Did the style exist before, say, 1985? Did Cold Steel adapt the
concept from something else, or did it "borrow" a design that a
lesser-known maker had done before? If it is an adaptation from the
Japanese swords, how was the conceptual leap made?
Also, who here likes it? What percentage of knives in actual use have
this style? What are they supposed to be better at? What are there
weaknesses?
...or is there a book I should read instead?
Personally, I find I'm a lot better and faster with a 3" Tanto than a
co-worker is with a 3" clip. I find the straight blades and distinct
points really help me in trimming down cardboard, stripping wires, and
the like. I do occasionally miss having the curved blade and narrow
point, but not nearly as often as I'm thankfull for the Tanto's secondary
point and edge. I feel like the tanto gives me the most knife possible.
Thoughts?
--
"With two exceptions, unemployment and domestic spending,
the economy is in very good shape." -- Paul Martin
Guns don't kill people... bullets do.
birdland
The Tanto was designed to pierce armor. Because of it's wedge design it
also leaves a wide wound.
Bob
Matthew Robertson <bx...@torfree.net> wrote in article
<E8E4u5.HyC...@torfree.net>...
BDT
As far as modern history is concerned, as I understand it, custom
knifemaker Bob Lum was the first (in recent times) to employ the shape
thats now commonly refered to as the "tanto." I believe he called his
earliest creations, w/the characteristic blade shape, "armor piercing
daggers" w/no reference to the term "tanto." Its been said that Lynn
Thompson (of Cold Steel) saw Bob and some of his armor piercing daggers
at the Pomona Gun Show and took a liking to the design. Bobs armor
piercing daggers differ from most tanto shaped knives in that the tip
is also usually reinforced.
Robertson) writes:
>
>
>Hi. Me again.
>
>I use a CS Tanto folder (or two) at work, and nobody there is familiar
>with the blade pattern. Finally, the unavoidable question was asked:
>"where does the shape come from?" Naturally, I avoided the question.
>
>So, where DOES the "tanto" style come from? I've seen the discussions
on
>the origin and original meaning of the word `tanto', but that's not
what I
>mean. Did the style exist before, say, 1985? Did Cold Steel adapt
the
>concept from something else, or did it "borrow" a design that a
>lesser-known maker had done before? <SNIP>
Donald J. Sherrard
> >
> > I use a CS Tanto folder (or two) at work, and nobody there is familiar
> > with the blade pattern. Finally, the unavoidable question was asked:
> > "where does the shape come from?" Naturally, I avoided the question.
> >
> > So, where DOES the "tanto" style come from? I've seen the discussions on
>
> > the origin and original meaning of the word `tanto', but that's not what
> I
> > mean. Did the style exist before, say, 1985? Did Cold Steel adapt the
> > concept from something else, or did it "borrow" a design that a
> > Japanese swords, how was the conceptual leap made?
> >
The tanto is a Japanese combat dagger that has been around for hundreds of
years. The shape is based on the Japanese sword, but the "conceptual
leap" was made by the Japanese swordsmiths, not Cold Steel or a knifemaker
in the 1980's. As to when the first folding tanto were introduced, I'm
not sure.
ylm...@worldnet.att.net
i heard the tanto was made when a samurai shattered part of a sword once,
and saw that the broken point on the knife was similar to a katana, and
he realized he had a knife with a very strong tip.
BTW, i love tantos also.
Joe
bob engnath
bx...@torfree.net (Matthew Robertson) wrote:
>So, where DOES the "tanto" style come from? I've seen the discussions on
>the origin and original meaning of the word `tanto', but that's not what I
>mean. Did the style exist before, say, 1985? Did Cold Steel adapt the
>concept from something else, or did it "borrow" a design that a
>lesser-known maker had done before? If it is an adaptation from the
>Japanese swords, how was the conceptual leap made?
>Also, who here likes it? What percentage of knives in actual use have
>this style? What are they supposed to be better at? What are there
>weaknesses?
The ancient tanto is not a chisel tipped blade. The chisel tip is
most certainly the WORST possible shape for armor penetration.
If you want to get through armor, you use a slender, thick blade,
almost triangular, with a slow taper in width.
The utility of the chisel end tanto is questionable. The straight
part works fine, but it has no penetrating quality to point or tip.
Yes. I know that guys jam those chisel things through oil drums. You
can do the same thing with an ordinary cold chisel with enough force
behind it. The chisel tip is strong, but not very useful or practical.
Does that stop folks from buying them. Heck no, I sell dozens each
year.
The beauty of any knife is in the eye of the buyer. If he likes it,
why care if it's not the best possible pattern. A happy customer is
worth more than all of the discussion about shapes and patterns.
bob
gr...@earthlink.net
Christopher Lau
Matthew Robertson (bx...@torfree.net) wrote:
:
: Hi. Me again.
:
: I use a CS Tanto folder (or two) at work, and nobody there is familiar
: with the blade pattern. Finally, the unavoidable question was asked:
: "where does the shape come from?" Naturally, I avoided the question.
: So, where DOES the "tanto" style come from? I've seen the discussions on
: mean. Did the style exist before, say, 1985? Did Cold Steel adapt the
: concept from something else, or did it "borrow" a design that a
: lesser-known maker had done before? If it is an adaptation from the
: Japanese swords, how was the conceptual leap made?
Sato "The Japanese Sword" has a good discussion on the origins of the
tanto. Maynard "Tanto: Japanese Knives and Knife Fighting" also has
a bit of discussion. Most likely, the tanto began as a companion or
supplemental weapon to the tachi. The original shape of the tanto is
hira-zukuri (ridgeless) and without a defined point like tachi or the
later katana ie- they tend to look very *unlike* the shape popularized
by Cold Steel. In some cases, where a good sword got damaged and broken,
the point section could be turned into a tanto or wakizashi, but in
general, most tanto new-forged up to the 1700s would most likely have
been of the original hira-zukuri shape. The ridged (shinogi-zukuri) tanto
shape most likely began to be forged in that shape (as opposed to
salvaging a broken sword) sometime during the Edo period; this is the
period where things like the matched set of katana and wakizashi really
came into vogue, and although I have never seen a real katana, wak *and*
tanto triple set like the replica catalogs all seem to offer these days,
if such a set did exist, it would most likely date from this period.
However, even the ridged tanto, be they broken sword points or Edo-period
articles, are not really a match for the modern vision of "tanto".. The
major difference is in the point shape- early Japanese sword had points
with very little curvature (fukura-kareru), but this was found to be
ineffective in cutting, so the point quickly developed some belly and
curvature (fukura-tsuku). The often-claimed use of "armor-piercing" is
completely untrue, because Japanese sword technique emphasized cutting,
not thrusting (in fact the only thrusts were normally made to various
*un*-armored areas of your opponent: neck area, inside of the forearm, the
thighs). The daggers designed for armor piercing (yoroi-toshi) tended to
be triangular blades with flared heads (to open large holes in the armor
and make extraction of the weapon easier), or re-mounted yari (spear) heads
(spears were sometimes used to penetrate armor). "Knives Illustrated" ran
an article by Mukansa-rank swordsmith Yoshihara Yoshindo a couple of years
ago, which described and illustrated many different traditional tanto shapes,
none of which had a chisel point.
Because early sword point shapes would have been most similar to the chisel
shape used by most Western makers today, a plausible explanation *might*
be that the modern shape is based not on a real tanto, but on an old broken
sword tip which was salvaged by converting into a knife.. Well, it's a
plausible story, but I think the more likely explanation is that a chisel
point is incredibly easy to grind- you grind the flats on both sides of a
piece of bar stock, then cut the point off at an angle and hold both sides
on the platen or on the disc grinder, and presto, instant chisel point,
furthermore, to some people at least, this shape is, well, "sexy"..
Somebody probably made one of these and looked at it and said- hey, it
looks a bit like a tanto, and so the name stuck.. Personally, I think
chisel points look cheesy and are completely useless, but the market
demands this kind of shape, so just like stainless steel, I think it's going
to be here to stay..
: Also, who here likes it? What percentage of knives in actual use have
: this style? What are they supposed to be better at? What are there
: weaknesses?
:
: ...or is there a book I should read instead?
:
: Personally, I find I'm a lot better and faster with a 3" Tanto than a
: co-worker is with a 3" clip. I find the straight blades and distinct
: points really help me in trimming down cardboard, stripping wires, and
: the like. I do occasionally miss having the curved blade and narrow
: point, but not nearly as often as I'm thankfull for the Tanto's secondary
: point and edge. I feel like the tanto gives me the most knife possible.
My every day carry knife is a Timberline Police model with the false edge
on the back, and except for the serrations, this knife looks a lot more like
a real Japanese tanto with moroha-kissaki point to my eye than any piece
of junk from Cold Steel.. I've tried a knife with a chisel point and
I found it next to useless.. I found I could stab through cardboard much
easier with the thin point of the Timberline than the stubby tip of
the chisel point could.. As for stripping wires (which I actually do a lot
of), I simply roll it in one of the serrations and pull, nothing could be
easier.. Personally, I think a large part of how useful you find a knife
is psychological; you've spent a large amount on a blade, and you've got
to find some justification for it, so you'll claim it works better or
whatever, anything to justify it..
:
: Thoughts?
c4
--
--
Christopher Lau | Nortel Wireless Networks / Bell-Northern Research Ltd.
Mr. Unix | This article contains my own opinions, not BNR's.
-- | Bring back Trudeau!
cc...@nortel.ca | (613)-763-8392
Trister K
>The tanto is a Japanese combat dagger that has been around for hundreds
of
>years. The shape is based on the Japanese sword, but the "conceptual
>leap" was made by the Japanese swordsmiths, not Cold Steel or a
knifemaker
>in the 1980's. As to when the first folding tanto were introduced, I'm
>not sure.
The Japanese Tanto has a curved point like a typical Katana, the chisel
point that americans call a "Tanto" point is a fairly rare result of an
old sword being reused as a knife. The big point here being that japanese
swords are not shaped like our western "tanto" blades.
Matthew Robertson
bob engnath (gr...@earthlink.net) wrote:
: bx...@torfree.net (Matthew Robertson) wrote:
: >So, where DOES the "tanto" style come from? I've seen the discussions on
: >the origin and original meaning of the word `tanto', but that's not what I
: >mean. Did the style exist before, say, 1985? Did Cold Steel adapt the
: >concept from something else, or did it "borrow" a design that a
: >lesser-known maker had done before? If it is an adaptation from the
: >Japanese swords, how was the conceptual leap made?
: >Also, who here likes it? What percentage of knives in actual use have
: >this style? What are they supposed to be better at? What are there
: >weaknesses?
: The ancient tanto is not a chisel tipped blade. The chisel tip is
: most certainly the WORST possible shape for armor penetration.
: If you want to get through armor, you use a slender, thick blade,
: almost triangular, with a slow taper in width.
Hi, thanks for the answer. I had guessed, based on the erlier thread
about the word tanto, that there's a lot that the Tanto is _not_, but I
haven't heard much about what the Tanto actually *is*. While I hadn't
thought about it much, you're right about the T.'s armour-penetrating
prospects -- I'd rather have a spear. (Or a Halberd...)
: The utility of the chisel end tanto is questionable. The straight
: part works fine, but it has no penetrating quality to point or tip.
: Yes. I know that guys jam those chisel things through oil drums. You
: can do the same thing with an ordinary cold chisel with enough force
: behind it. The chisel tip is strong, but not very useful or practical.
: Does that stop folks from buying them. Heck no, I sell dozens each
: year.
The tanto-point doesn't penetrate by slicing its way through, but rather
through a "punch" action. It does take more force (=mass*acceleration
type of force, not [work=power/time]) but that's okay for me.
: The beauty of any knife is in the eye of the buyer. If he likes it,
: why care if it's not the best possible pattern. A happy customer is
: worth more than all of the discussion about shapes and patterns.
For me, the beauty of a knife is in its aptitude for work. A happy
amature with a machete and a roll of packing tape is not my favourite
sight. I'm not thrilled with the handle of my CS-MTS Voyager, but the
blade works well for precise tasks that don't require a fine tip. I'm
wondering who else out there uses a Tanto for everyday duty. (Not
carry-for-fun or "just in case", but actually uses it.) As I said
elsewhere, I feel like I'm the only one at this end of the canoe. So, do
I have a paddle? <g>
: bob
: gr...@earthlink.net
Mike P. Swaim
cc...@bmersab2.bnr.ca (Christopher Lau) wrote:
> Personally, I think a large part of how useful you find a knife
>is psychological; you've spent a large amount on a blade, and you've got
>to find some justification for it, so you'll claim it works better or
>whatever, anything to justify it..
That would certainly help explain why some howl so loudly whenever
somebody posts results of an actual test. It would also help explain
why some are so reluctant to do a side by side comparisson of their
favorite knife. (They might just not want to know, what they might
learn.) Not that I, necessarily place all that much emphasis on
actual tests. ;-)
I've got a CS Voyager plain blade "tanto" that I quit carrying when I
noticed that the only part of the edge that I really seemed to use was
the angled point, that is where the missing "belly" is supposed to be.
I switched back to knives that have an intentional curved "belly" and
have been happier.
My reason for that is simple. With a slightly curved blade, it cuts
longer through a longer section of the blade with a wrist generated
slicing motion, than does a similar straight blade chisel point. That
means, (for me), faster cuts, and more importantly, since more of the
blade is being used, less frequent sharpening. Besides, I never was
any good at just resharpening that acute section of angle on the
"tanto".
Is the above just Mike trying to justify what he likes and carries?
Who knows? But, I did actually sit down with a large cardboard box and
work out the mechanics of it, before I shelved the CS "tanto".
YMMV,
Mike Swaim
James & Toni Mattis
Matthew Robertson wrote:
>
> Also, who here likes it? What percentage of knives in actual use have
> this style? What are they supposed to be better at? What are there
> weaknesses?
>
>
> Personally, I find I'm a lot better and faster with a 3" Tanto than a
> co-worker is with a 3" clip. I find the straight blades and distinct
> points really help me in trimming down cardboard, stripping wires, and
> the like. I do occasionally miss having the curved blade and narrow
> point, but not nearly as often as I'm thankfull for the Tanto's secondary
> point and edge. I feel like the tanto gives me the most knife possible.
>
>
I think those extra angles look really nice, and I agree that the extra
"point" makes sense for starting cuts in tough material. I don't carry a
"tanto" folder myself, but I know a rabbi who is very happy with his
Benchmade-Emerson, because it's ground on the left side, and he's a
southpaw. Mr. Emerson would probably be shocked to learn that his
end-user carries his design because he thinks that chisel point makes it
NOT look like a stabbing weapon, and it's important to him that it
should be perceived as a tool, which is how he uses it. [For fighting,
his training is in empty hand technique and blunt instruments.]
James K. Mattis
"The pen is mightier than the sword, but not in the dark!" - anon.
David Kelleher
James & Toni Mattis wrote:
I know a rabbi who is very happy with his
> should be perceived as a tool, which is how he uses it. [For fighting,
> his training is in empty hand technique and blunt instruments.]
>
> James K. Mattis
Blunt instruments?
Ass Jawbones etc:-)
daithi
SHRich
I can vouch for Bob Lum introducing the tanto into American knife design
in the early 80s. I knew Bob's parents and when they heard about my
interest in knives, they showed a broshure of handmade knives that Bob had
produced himself (he is also a very good photographer). Included in the
collection was a tanto. I had never seen one before, and it blew me away.
This was 1982. The next one I saw was about three years later was a Cold
Steel model. My first thought was "They got a hold of Bob Lum's design."
I met Bob some time later and he confirmed this. Bob also did some great
work using the traditional Chinese leaf shaped blade (his were fixed
blade, but the originals were folders). I always wondered why that design
didn't take off as well.
bob engnath
shr...@aol.com (SHRich) wrote:
>I can vouch for Bob Lum introducing the tanto into American knife design
>in the early 80s. I knew Bob's parents and when they heard about my
Bob Lum did indeed invent or popularize the tanto that we all see
around today in custom and commercial versions. BUT the pattern is NOT
a real tanto.
The genuine article is/was made in about a dozen different styles,
none of them utilizing the chisel or sword style tip where there's a
seperate grind for the tip angle. There was one type with a tip break,
but the tip was about half the length of the blade, and it was hardly
noticable. Don Polzine makes some of those.
An armor piercing tanto had a very thick spine and a pointed,
slender tip that wedged it's way through armor by having the ability
to put a lot of foot pounds of energy behind an extremely small area.
They were not much more than a really sharp spike.
All of this armor piercing bs started when folks didn't understand
that the Lum design was really just a severely shortened sword. Guys
figured that the angular tip must be good for something and called it
an armor pierser. I couldn't think of a worse tip to punch armor. It
needs more foot pounds of energy to penetrate than just about any tip
ever designed.
The chisel tip on a sword made it a better slashing weapon, not by
adding a little angular cutting edge, but by allowing the design of
the sword to carry more weight foreward and into the front third where
slashing is done. Japanese sword design does not have the lightened
tip that many of the European types do.
Try joining the Japanese Sword Society of the United States. They'll
be around just about every gun show. Just ask at a table where there
are Japanese blades. A couple of meetings will help clear a lot of
this bs from your mind.
bob
gr...@earthlink.net
Chas Clements
boos...@ix.netcom.com(BDT ) writes: >
>
> As far as modern history is concerned, as I understand it, custom
> knifemaker Bob Lum was the first (in recent times) to employ the shape
> thats now commonly refered to as the "tanto." I believe he called his
> earliest creations, w/the characteristic blade shape, "armor piercing
> daggers" w/no reference to the term "tanto." Its been said that Lynn
> Thompson (of Cold Steel) saw Bob and some of his armor piercing daggers
> at the Pomona Gun Show and took a liking to the design. Bobs armor
> piercing daggers differ from most tanto shaped knives in that the tip
> is also usually reinforced.
>
>
> Robertson) writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >I use a CS Tanto folder (or two) at work, and nobody there is familiar
>
> >with the blade pattern. Finally, the unavoidable question was asked:
> >"where does the shape come from?" Naturally, I avoided the question.
> >
> on
> >the origin and original meaning of the word `tanto', but that's not
> what I
> >mean. Did the style exist before, say, 1985? Did Cold Steel adapt
> the
> >concept from something else, or did it "borrow" a design that a
>
The tanto as carried by the Japanese usually had a longer, sharper tip. The
short tip was more appropriate to the sword, for use against armor. Combining
the style (tip and blade length) is more modern. I find that I stab very
few cardoors or bullet proof vests., so I like a longer, more piercing tip.
I also think that Thompsons' renaming of the Carbon Vanadium to 'CarbonV'
was a masterful stroke of merchandising. You may be assured that Lynn
Thompson is revered and respected throughout the custom knife industry for
his ethics and integrity. Good Luck to you, Chas
A.T. Barr
Excuse me, but is Lynn Thompson a custom maker? Revered and respected?
Now the man may own a "factory" knife company, but "revered". There have
been very, very few "new" techniques that the custom makers did not do
first and then the "factories" followed.
The new designs and styles coming from the factories now are due to them
working with custom makers.
And your comment "masterful stroke of merchandising" means to me, that
what you MIGHT not have in quality, style, or workmanship, you make up
for with adverstising dollars.
Most custom makers are horrible in marketing themselves. If it was not
for our customers spreading the word about us, most of us would be
unknown.
"revered" gimme a break.
A.T. Barr http://www.customknives.com
bob engnath
a._g._russell
In article <5j86q3$jeo$1...@newman.pcisys.net>, Chas says...
>
>boos...@ix.netcom.com(BDT ) writes: >
>>
>> As far as modern history is concerned, as I understand it, custom
>> knifemaker Bob Lum was the first (in recent times) to employ the shape
>> thats now commonly refered to as the "tanto." I believe he called his
>> earliest creations, w/the characteristic blade shape, "armor piercing
>> daggers" w/no reference to the term "tanto." Its been said that Lynn
>> Thompson (of Cold Steel) saw Bob and some of his armor piercing daggers
>> at the Pomona Gun Show and took a liking to the design. Bobs armor
>> piercing daggers differ from most tanto shaped knives in that the tip
>> is also usually reinforced.
>The tanto as carried by the Japanese usually had a longer, sharper tip. The
>short tip was more appropriate to the sword, for use against armor. Combining
>the style (tip and blade length) is more modern. I find that I stab very
>few cardoors or bullet proof vests., so I like a longer, more piercing tip.
>I also think that Thompsons' renaming of the Carbon Vanadium to 'CarbonV'
>was a masterful stroke of merchandising. You may be assured that Lynn
>Thompson is revered and respected throughout the custom knife industry for
>his ethics and integrity. Good Luck to you, Chas
I am sorry to inject myself into this but, I need to ask who is Chas Clements and
what empowers him to speak for the entire custom knife industry?
Is this some more of the humor like Joe calling Ron and Mike amatuers?? The
fellow with the original post does not need to be reassured, he is happy with
his knife.
hrly
A. G. Russell wrote in article <5j8bm8$m...@lori.zippo.com>...
chas.i know your not speaking for ANY of the knife makers i know (a bunch)
the point of his bowie was made great light of at the last hammer-in i was
at, as well as his unabashed carnie doublespeak.other than that hes a great
showman
harley
A.T. Barr
A.T.
mel sorg
You may be assured that Lynn
> > >Thompson is revered and respected throughout the custom knife industry
> for
> > >his ethics and integrity. Good Luck to you, Chas
> >
> > I am sorry to inject myself into this but, I need to ask who is Chas
> Clements and
> > what empowers him to speak for the entire custom knife industry?
> >
> > Is this some more of the humor like Joe calling Ron and Mike amatuers??
> The
> > fellow with the original post does not need to be reassured, he is happy
> with
> > his knife.
> >
> chas.i know your not speaking for ANY of the knife makers i know (a bunch)
> the point of his bowie was made great light of at the last hammer-in i was
> at, as well as his unabashed carnie doublespeak.other than that hes a great
When I was making the rounds of the knife and gun shows down in the
Chicago area a few years back, I kept running into a fellow at the Lake
County gun show. I would set up a table to sell a few custom knives of
my own make, and a couple from other makers. He would set up right next
door with two or three tables full of Cold Steel, and SOG, and Gerber
and other assorted wares, mostly of the tactical bent. In keeping with
his mentor, Mr. Thompson, he was a great showman, and did a land office
business off of the impressionable kids, selling them bowies, and
tantos, and boot knives and kukris......
Funny, he was also my best customer, ....and kept pestering me until
I finally parted with my own forged, full convex bladed, McCrackin camp
knife.
Guess he did know quality when he saw it :) Just hope Lynn never caught
him!
madpoet
Chas Clements
mel sorg <mel...@parkrapids.polaristel.net> writes: > You may be assured that Lynn
> > > >Thompson is revered and respected throughout the custom knife industry
> > for
> > > >his ethics and integrity. Good Luck to you, Chas
> > >
> > > I am sorry to inject myself into this but, I need to ask who is Chas
> > Clements and
> > > what empowers him to speak for the entire custom knife industry?
> > >
> > > Is this some more of the humor like Joe calling Ron and Mike amatuers??
> > chas.i know your not speaking for ANY of the knife makers i know (a bunch)
> > the point of his bowie was made great light of at the last hammer-in i was
> > at, as well as his unabashed carnie doublespeak.other than that hes a great
> > showman.
> Guess he did know quality when he saw it :) Just hope Lynn never caught
> him!
> madpoet
Doesn't it seem to you that the knife industry brings out the best and the
worst in people? A knife should reflect the integrity of its' manufacturer
I cannot think of another aspect of the knife that is as important.
Chas 'just another knife guy with an opinion' Clements
bob engnath
"A.T. Barr" <at-...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>> > >I also think that Thompsons' renaming of the Carbon Vanadium to
>> 'CarbonV'
>> > >was a masterful stroke of merchandising. You may be assured that Lynn
>> > >Thompson is revered and respected throughout the custom knife industry
>> for
>> > >his ethics and integrity. Good Luck to you, Chas
Madison Ave. might applaud the decision to muddy the waters by
re-naming a steel to something mysterious, but knife makers do not. It
makes their products harder to sell and more difficult to explain. It
also obscures the fact that the steel, with the original name, might
be be considered downright cheap.
Revered and respected? You've got them confused with something else.
Custom knife industry? Must have missed my questionare in the mail.
Ethics....just ask AG Russel.
bob
gr...@earthlink.net
a._g._russell
In article <5jdnoh$i9u$1...@newman.pcisys.net>, Chas says...
>
>mel sorg <mel...@parkrapids.polaristel.net> writes: > You may be assured that Lynn
>> > > >Thompson is revered and respected throughout the custom knife industry
>> > for
>> > > >his ethics and integrity. Good Luck to you, Chas
>> > >
>> > > I am sorry to inject myself into this but, I need to ask who is Chas
>> > Clements and
>> > > what empowers him to speak for the entire custom knife industry?
>> > >
>> > > Is this some more of the humor like Joe calling Ron and Mike amatuers??
>
>> > chas.i know your not speaking for ANY of the knife makers i know (a bunch)
>> > the point of his bowie was made great light of at the last hammer-in i was
>> > at, as well as his unabashed carnie doublespeak.other than that hes a great
>> > showman.
>
>> Guess he did know quality when he saw it :) Just hope Lynn never caught
>> him!
>> madpoet
>Doesn't it seem to you that the knife industry brings out the best and the
>worst in people? A knife should reflect the integrity of its' manufacturer
>I cannot think of another aspect of the knife that is as important.
>Chas 'just another knife guy with an opinion' Clements
Chas;
everybody is entitled to an opinion. Neither you nor anyone else is entitled to
speak for my opinion. You did this and you were wrong. I would not speak for
the ENTIRE custom knife industry and I was part of it when it had less than
20 makers and a tiny handful of dealers.
If you want to worship Mr. Thompson that is up to you. Do NOT however,
speak for Bob Lum, Jim Merritt, Wayne Goddard, myself or anybody else in
this industry who has had dealings with him.
The list gets bigger if you move out of the custom knife industry into the knife
industry in general. I don't think that Chuck Buck, Patrick Gaffney (the Edge).
Bruce Voyles (Blade Magazine, past), Greg Walker (Fighting Knives),
Stewart Taylor (Taylor Knives), Mike Stewart of BlackJack knives.
Once again, if you want to talk of things about which you know absolutely
nothing do not express those things as the opinions of other people. In fact,
even if you know something about what you are talking about, state those thing
as YOUR opinion and refrain from dragging hundreds of unsuspecting people in
to back you up.
A. G. Russell
Micah Gin
The Tanto design originally came from broken swords. The shorter length and
sharp tip made it ideal for a reserve close combat weapon. A broken sword
quickly became a deadly tanto. That's where the original design came from,
an accident.
Robert Allen
In article 6ef0c6cc@default, "hrly" <ha...@3wave.com> writes:
>
>chas.i know your not speaking for ANY of the knife makers i know (a bunch)
>the point of his bowie was made great light of at the last hammer-in i was
>at, as well as his unabashed carnie doublespeak.other than that hes a great
>showman
Current makers can make great light of the Trailmaster if they wish, but
the fact remains that Lynn Thompson popularized the large bowie design
for the general market, *based on*, articles by Bill Bagwell in Soldier
of Fortune magazine, shortly before Bagwell was bagged by SOF for pissing
off a large advertiser, a famous maker (I am not absolutely positive of
the name anymore so I won't mention it here) who advertised a large, hollow
handled "survival knife", made of stainless and in the spear point bowie
pattern. Bagwell destroyed one and wrote about why and how he did it,
as a demo of what to look for in a big bowie, but this pissed off the
maker bigtime and Bagwell lost his column shortly there after. Bagwell
was, IMHO, responsible for bringing people like Jerry Fisk, John Smith,
and Jim Crowell to the forefront of the buying public with big, well
made, and well balanced bowies. Thompson took the features that Bagwell
published and produced the Trailmaster, which in turn led to more demand
from custom makers. Previous to the Trailmaster L.T. started with push
daggers, early wooden handled "tanto"s, and a couple low profile daggers,
one of which was called The Urban Shiv.
This all happened in the mid 1980's and led to the immense popularity of
functional yet beautiful knives in the late 1980's. I won't go on record
as saying I'm enamored of all of Lynn Thompsons products, but he's an
excellent salesman and all of his products are very good for the market
they're targeted it.
Robert Allen
(owner of Smith, Fisk, Flournoy, Bagwell, and CS blades).
HRLY BLADE
In article <5jdnoh$i9u$1...@newman.pcisys.net>, Chas Clements
<ch...@pcisys.net> writes:
>Subject: Re: True "Tanto" history?
>From: Chas Clements <ch...@pcisys.net>
>Date: 20 Apr 1997 18:37:05 GMT
>
>mel sorg <mel...@parkrapids.polaristel.net> writes: > You may be assured
>that Lynn
>> > > >Thompson is revered and respected throughout the custom knife
industry
>> > for
>> > > >his ethics and integrity. Good Luck to you, Chas
>> > >
>> > > I am sorry to inject myself into this but, I need to ask who is
Chas
>> > Clements and
>> > > what empowers him to speak for the entire custom knife industry?
>> > >
>> > > Is this some more of the humor like Joe calling Ron and Mike
amatuers??
>
>> > chas.i know your not speaking for ANY of the knife makers i know (a
>bunch)
>> > the point of his bowie was made great light of at the last hammer-in
i
>was
>> > at, as well as his unabashed carnie doublespeak.other than that hes a
>great
>> > showman.
>
>> Guess he did know quality when he saw it :) Just hope Lynn never
caught
>> him!
>> madpoet
>Doesn't it seem to you that the knife industry brings out the best and
the
>worst in people? A knife should reflect the integrity of its'
manufacturer
>I cannot think of another aspect of the knife that is as important.
>Chas 'just another knife guy with an opinion' Clements
>
>------------------- Headers --------------
thats fine just don,t tell everyone that the custom knife world at large
has the same opinion. it don,t
harley
harley