Silent stunt kites.
RLoiseau
one of the newest trends in stunt kites is to get the sail completly
silent--reducing drag.
there have been sevral different systems for this, three that I know of.
1: trailing edge vents.
2: leech lines.
3: ram-inflated wingtip pockets.
when I sew in a leech line i can get it tight enough to completely
eliminate sound. to me, this would seem like the best option, because it
is simple, and dosent ADD drag, like ram pockets and screening.
So I am wondering what advantages/disadvantages these options give? would
combinations of them be ideal?
later
Robin
RLoi...@aol.com(the bird)
Transcendent kites Robin Levick
Campbell, James E
In article <4up0v6$7...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, rloi...@aol.com (RLoiseau)
wrote:
> there have been sevral different systems for this, three that I know of.
>
> 1: trailing edge vents.
>
> 2: leech lines.
>
> 3: ram-inflated wingtip pockets.
>
I agree that option #2 is what I prefer however there's also a couple of
other options you can investigate. The noise generated by most stunters
is the result of large unsupported sections of trailing edge being allowed
to oscillate. Several modern kites tame the trailing edge by adding
additional standoffs which reduces the span of the unstablized sections
trailing edge. If the trailing edge is slightly scalloped between the
standoffs, the noise level is reduced further. A modern kite using the
multiple standoff technique would be Dodd Gross' Jam Session.
Another technique is to put the trailing edge under tension by scalloping
the trailing edge and then putting a considerable amount of camber in the
leading edge. As the rods in the leading edge try to straighten
themselves out, they apply pressure across the scalloped trailing edge
pulling it tight. I believe this technique was pioneered by aoxo-Dean
Jordan.
For the record, I don't believe that ram-inflated wingtip pockets do
anything for reducing noise other than the fact that most employ an
additional trailing edge tensioner such as an additional standoff or a
leading edge to trailing edge standoff.
Hope this helps.
--
James E. Campbell (jcamp...@msmail3.hac.com)
Hughes Aircraft Company Leading Edge Kites
Jeffrey C. Burka
In article <4up0v6$7...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>,
RLoiseau <rloi...@aol.com> wrote:
>one of the newest trends in stunt kites is to get the sail completly
>silent--reducing drag.
There's an odd statement. This "newest trend" started, oh, probably 4
years ago. The first silent kite I remember seeing a lot of was the Jordan
Air Pro, followed by Mike Simmons' Tracer, which was probably the kite
which brought silence to the masses (though I remember a *lot* of a rather
noisy tracers...). But folks were advertising the silence of their deltas
6 and more years ago...
Some of the _real_ newest trends include a return to higher aspect ratios,
increased use of turbo bridles (thanks to Ray Bordelon's infinity bridle),
and shorter dart keels.
>there have been sevral different systems for this, three that I know of.
>
>1: trailing edge vents.
>
>2: leech lines.
>
>3: ram-inflated wingtip pockets.
Actually, there's a 4th: properly designed trailing edges. Jordan Air
kites are a good example of this; the Pro, X-1, and Millenium are silent
without leach lines. What's that you say, your Millenium has a leech line?
Well, yeah, I think Dean includes them because people *expect* them on
high-end kites. Detatch the leechline and the kite will still be silent.
I believe that Michael Graves also designed his kites with chain-curved
trailing edges which were quiet without leech lines.
And then, there's a fifth--trailing edge reinforcement. For instance, the
Prism Radian (another silent kite from 4 years ago...) uses their
reinforced mylar layered on the back of the trailing edge (though I imagine
that the curved segments in combo with the battens and stand-offs also play
a part in the kite's silence). Another kite I remember
>when I sew in a leech line i can get it tight enough to completely
>eliminate sound. to me, this would seem like the best option, because it
>is simple, and dosent ADD drag, like ram pockets and screening.
Actually, I think you'll find that a very tight leech line *will* add drag;
it tends to cup the trailing edge of the sail.
jeff
--
|Jeffrey C. Burka | Pithy, insightful quote to be inserted when one |
|jbu...@glue.umd.edu | occurs to me. *If* one occurs to me. |
|http://www.wam.umd.edu/~jeffy |
Rob Stone
one of the newest trends in stunt kites is to get the sail completly
> silent--reducing drag.
>
>
> 1: trailing edge vents.
>
> 2: leech lines.
>
> 3: ram-inflated wingtip pockets.
>
> So I am wondering what advantages/disadvantages these options give? would
> combinations of them be ideal?
>
> later
>
> Robin
>
> RLoi...@aol.com(the bird)
> Transcendent kites Robin Levick
Off the bat, I can think of at least one more method. Prism Designs
uses battens to keep the TE taught.
One thing about leech lines, they tend to pull the tips of the kite in.
To get the best performance, you'll need to adjust the lines as the kite
ages (sail strecthes).
Of the methods I've examined, the simplest seems to be the batten
approach.
Other methods involve varying degrees of more complex design or time
to construct.
For what it's worth.
Hayden1009
>stunt kites is to get the sail completly
I don't get it. If the kite is silent, how do you clear enough room on
the beach to fly.
;-)
And, bystanders can hear you singing to your walkman!
Alice Hayden 8^)
Jeffrey C. Burka
In article <4uq2cl$9...@geog25.umd.edu>,
Jeffrey C. Burka <jbu...@Glue.umd.edu> wrote:
>And then, there's a fifth--trailing edge reinforcement. For instance, the
>Prism Radian (another silent kite from 4 years ago...) uses their
>reinforced mylar layered on the back of the trailing edge (though I imagine
>that the curved segments in combo with the battens and stand-offs also play
>a part in the kite's silence). Another kite I remember
<giggle> Sorry 'bout that folks...don't just love those half-thoughts?
What I meant to say was that I remember another kite from ca.'90 which
actually had a piece of fairly stiff plastic (nylon? mylar?) attached to
the bottom of the sail. It was this thing that actually formed the
trailing edge. The manufacturer touted it as efficient and silent. I've
only ever seen one of these kites (Dodd had it at his old store in York),
and never seen one fly...but that's basically just taking the idea of
stiffening a trailing edge one step further.
RLoiseau
In article <4uq2cl$9...@geog25.umd.edu>, jbu...@Glue.umd.edu (Jeffrey C.
Burka) writes:
>There's an odd statement. This "newest trend" started, oh, probably 4
>years ago. The first silent kite I remember seeing a lot of was the
Jordan
>Air Pro, followed by Mike Simmons' Tracer, which was probably the kite
>which brought silence to the masses (though I remember a *lot* of a
rather
>noisy tracers...). But folks were advertising the silence of their
deltas
>6 and more years ago...
>
>Some of the _real_ newest trends include a return to higher aspect
ratios,
>increased use of turbo bridles (thanks to Ray Bordelon's infinity
bridle),
>and shorter dart keels.
>
>
Excuse me, Mr. Burka. I really resent your self-richous attitude and the
way you talk down to me. I have been into kites for long enoughto know
that silent kites aren't exactly on the extreme edge of new devolopements,
but they are starting to be more and more common, and we are seeing
different approaches on how to achive the silent flight (like in michael
graves Tekawea)
I see no reason for you to shoot me down, becauause you dissagree with the
wording of my opening statement. Please take care in the future to adress
the people of this group with a little more respect.
Sheesh--"the_real_new trends" come on dude, is that nescessary????? just
answer the question, dont insult me!
AhClem0013
>one of the newest trends in stunt kites is to get the sail completly
>silent--reducing drag.
Define new.
What about building the kite correctly in the first place? hmmmmm, like
maybe the Hugo, the Pro, the Millennium, the Aeon, the Spec. We put leech
lines in two of those kites for consumers that feel they need them. None
of the flyers that i know actually use them. In fact i believe(always
have)that they detract from performance.
Comments?
>
>there have been sevral different systems for this, three that I know of.
>
>1: trailing edge vents.
>
>2: leech lines.
>
>3: ram-inflated wingtip pockets.
>
>
>when I sew in a leech line i can get it tight enough to completely
>eliminate sound. to me, this would seem like the best option, because it
>is simple, and dosent ADD drag, like ram pockets and screening.
>
>So I am wondering what advantages/disadvantages these options give?
would
>combinations of them be ideal?
aoxo-dean
total AoxomoxoA brought to you by. . .
. . . dean jordan
please buy * jordan air kites * every chance you get!
13
RLoiseau
In article <4urcl6$5...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, ahcle...@aol.com
(AhClem0013) writes:
>>one of the newest trends in stunt kites is to get the sail completly
>>silent--reducing drag.
>
>Define new.
I AM *sorry* for stating that it was one of the newest trends. That is
not what I meant, I realize that this has been a goal for some time.
what I meant was-----
"Now that silent flight is becoming more and more prevalant in design
criteria, lets discuss the different ways of achiving this"
is everyone happy now? do you see how it is a bit nasty to write in with
these remarks?
ok, now.
>
>What about building the kite correctly in the first place? hmmmmm, like
>maybe the Hugo, the Pro, the Millennium, the Aeon, the Spec. We put
leech
>lines in two of those kites for consumers that feel they need them. None
>of the flyers that i know actually use them. In fact i believe(always
>have)that they detract from performance.
>
>Comments?
yup. I just want to reming you of an old add I saw in kitelines, listing
the performance features of Jordan Air kites. Noisy was on the list <g>
I wasnt aware that your kites didnt need their leech lines. So how about
discussing my comment, instead of defending your kites, and challenging
how *new* the idea is. Who cares, the I dea is that it is on a lot of
builders minds (including me) are thinking about this.
si I wanted to discuss why some are better than others. if you can make
kites that dont need leech lines, why not discuss it, this seems to be a
good option. If people feel that leech lines detract from a kites
performance--explain why.
I had an Idea earlier this year to re-inforce the trailing edge by sewing
little pockets using a zig-zag all along the trailing edge, and then
sewing .030 carbon in there. this would be an extremly light weight
batten. would this have any advantages over a leech line?
come on, lets talk about why ram-inflated wingtips arent more widely used,
and if there are disadvantages to edge handling with screening. I posted
the message to learn, not to be flamed. Even if I hadnt known that silent
flight was an older developement, how would you have made some "newbie" if
they had asked the same question. (this isnt all directed at you dean,
just frustrated with all the replys I have seen so far.)
see ya.
Marty Sasaki
From: ahcle...@aol.com (AhClem0013)
What about building the kite correctly in the first place? hmmmmm, like
maybe the Hugo, the Pro, the Millennium, the Aeon, the Spec. We put leech
lines in two of those kites for consumers that feel they need them. None
of the flyers that i know actually use them. In fact i believe(always
have)that they detract from performance.
Comments?
My first comment is a silent kite isn't necessarily a better
kite. Noise can sometimes add to the fun and can certainly add to the
impact of a routine. The example that I always give for this is High
Performance when flying North Shore Radicals at Wildwood a few (5?)
years ago. They were flying with 4 then, and the NSR's were a
roar. Suddenly they did a simple snap stall, and there was dead
silence. That silence drew lots of attention...
When flying a shutter bug, a team can sometimes make the move more
impressive by accelerating through the turn in the center, the
increased noise can increase spectator reaction.
There is something very satisfying about flying a California Wasp and
having the silence to punctuate a tip stab, or a black hole.
Besides, at low wind speeds, drag from a fluttering trailing edge is
almost non-existant. At high wind speeds, you probably want the drag
to slow the kite down (reducing the pull as well) anyway.
My kites are usually pretty quiet. I do this by carefully orienting
the grain of the fabric and by using 4 standoffs. The outer standoffs
also add some washout to the windtips.
My two latest designs have leech lines in them. I added them because
the trailing edges of both kites don't have as pronouced a curve in
them, and had longer sections of the trailing edge unsupported by
standoffs. The prototypes without leech lines flew just fine, but the
leech lines did make the kites quieter. I saw no change in
performance.
I've since added another set of standoffs, but haven't tried the kites
without the leech lines, I guess I should try that... ;-)
Leech lines can be difficult to adjust. The wrong tension and you end
up with a distorted tailing edge and terrible performance. I helped
folks tune some early Tracer's, and they were really touchy about
leech line tension.
So, while I wouldn't go as far as Dean, implying that only improperly
built kites need leech lines, I feel that you have to be very careful
about how you use them. They are just another tool that can be used to
change a kites flying characteristics.
--
Marty Sasaki
sas...@das.harvard.edu
DQuad
>1: trailing edge vents.
>
>2: leech lines.
>
>3: ram-inflated wingtip pockets.
Maybe a fourth could be
Reinforcing the trailing edge with different types of fabric>>Big
Brother/Jordan Pro/Original EFM
The EFM used(s) a curved dacron strip as well as a leech line. First saw
the Big Brother at SSKC I when Sue and Chris Batdorf were flying them. We
were all blown away!! I was using dean's noisy little Starwatcher at the
time, so the lack o' noise was different.
5 could be an elliptical trailing edge. This, to me, seems to be how a
good number of designers start trying to reduce the viburations(noise).
Extra panels, leech lines, battens are then added.
Ram air inflated pockets ?? An example of this is the JSession. With the 3
standoffs per side, those are what are probably reducing the noise. The
pockets probably have something to do with turn/spin speed.. Dodd > Help
us here.
The best place to get a kite that doesn't make noise(unlike a jtavo
scorp), is to start in the initial design process.
The duodrones(pairs Ballet on East Coast) used alot of leech lines in
their kites when they first started competing 5-6 years ago. Some of the
kites they used were helped by the lines, as many others suffered by the
installation. So Paul liked the idea so much >>He started his own kite
company>>aerodrone.
Don't have opinions of the screened trailing edges.
The kite Jeffy was forgetting to talk about was the >>Windwing Pro Sport.
Had a Spectrographic Monofilm Sail. Made a kind of whooshing sound as it
flew. Much like the Accelerator II by Robert Crowell. It used a Ram air
inflated sail on a delta style wing frame...
The best option is the one that adds less weight and the least amount of
time it takes to do the fix!!
hope this adds something to the stew.
dave arnold(who picks the colors for his own kites anymore)
Michael Graves
In article <3210B8...@corp.atl.com>, Rob Stone (rst...@corp.atl.com) writes:
>one of the newest trends in stunt kites is to get the sail completly
>> silent--reducing drag.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2: leech lines.
>>
>> 3: ram-inflated wingtip pockets.
>>
>
>> So I am wondering what advantages/disadvantages these options give? would
>> combinations of them be ideal?
>>
>uses battens to keep the TE taught.
>
Don't overlook the less than mechanically obvious...that is, control
of sail tension as a mechanism to damp T.E. vibration. Examples of this
technique include my own Tek Series (only in Canader, eh? pity!) and
Dean's Jordan Air line.
My feeling is that this is the best way to handle vibration
problems, because it's the cleanest. That's not so say simplest to
do, but cleanest to implement. Least mechanical crutch-work for the
kitemaker to fiddle with. It really kills me to see a kite with
leech lines, 6 standouts AND trailing edge vents. To me that's the
shotgun approach of using everything and hoping that something will
do the trick.
Michael
--
Michael Graves mic...@majortech.com
Graphics Specialist http://www.interlog.com/~mgraves
Major Technologies Inc.
Mississauga, Ontario
RLoiseau
In article <4uu13n$8...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, dq...@aol.com (DQuad)
writes:
>Ram air inflated pockets ?? An example of this is the JSession. With the
3
>standoffs per side, those are what are probably reducing the noise. The
>pockets probably have something to do with turn/spin speed.. Dodd > Help
>us here.
>
>The best place to get a kite that doesn't make noise(unlike a jtavo
>scorp), is to start in the initial design process.
>
>The duodrones(pairs Ballet on East Coast) used alot of leech lines in
>their kites when they first started competing 5-6 years ago. Some of the
>kites they used were helped by the lines, as many others suffered by the
>installation. So Paul liked the idea so much >>He started his own kite
>company>>aerodrone.
>
>Don't have opinions of the screened trailing edges.
>
>The kite Jeffy was forgetting to talk about was the >>Windwing Pro Sport.
>Had a Spectrographic Monofilm Sail. Made a kind of whooshing sound as it
>flew. Much like the Accelerator II by Robert Crowell. It used a Ram air
>inflated sail on a delta style wing frame...
>
>The best option is the one that adds less weight and the least amount of
>time it takes to do the fix!!
>
>hope this adds something to the stew.
>
>dave arnold(who picks the colors for his own kites anymore)
>
>
>
RLoi...@aol.com(the bird)
Transcendent kites Robin Levick
Djskites
>Ram air inflated pockets ?? An example of this is the JSession. With the
3
>standoffs per side, those are what are probably reducing the noise. The
>pockets probably have something to do with turn/spin speed.. Dodd > Help
>us here.
>
Exactly. Instead of using a line that is run through the trailing edge to
keep it tight to reduce noise, HQ relys on a double stiched/folded
trailing edge (look at the trailing edge sewing on a Jam or other HQ
Sportkite) and the use of 3 stand-offs per side not only ensures more
stability on the edge and through flat spins and Axels, but also keeps the
trailing edge tight to keep it quiet.
The Air Wing Battons(yes, it really works) also help reduce vibration in
the wing tips and slow the kite through forward flight and the first
initial spins in a spin. The effect and proven use of these techniques
together produce a line of efficient quiet sportkites. This technique is
used on the entire line from HQ(not the Babytana)that I import.
It is easier to simply place a line in the trailing edge to quiet a kite
than to come up with design and sewing techniques to produce the same
effect. I like this way(using Airwing Battons, standoffs and double
stitched sewing) more than the "leech line" becuase it is cleaner and less
to deal with. Some kites that use a leech line come through from the
manufacturer all set up and tied which is hard sometimes to get just right
again after spar replacement if your not totally used to it.
Remember Dean's "Jordan Air Pro" that used applique to quiet the trailing
edge, now that was another clean way to achieve the same goal. The Tracer
production model used pre-tied loops on the leech line that worked in the
beginning but with time, stretched out and needed re-adjustment. Although
it was a pain in the butt gettting the tension just right, I prefered the
adjustable leech line in my Mike Simmons Tracers that are now common in
many of todays leech line used kites.
So for me,(and this is my opinion) this technique HQ uses is the better,
cleaner, less hassel way, and because these kites go out to so many people
I feel safer selling kites that use a simple system to quiet the kite that
works. For some of you, you may prefer to have total control over the
adjustment of your trailing edge but remember that not everyone knows or
cares to do that and if your kite is working and not stretching out, there
is no need to adjust it.
Hope this helps
Dodd Gross
Andrew Beattie
> come on, lets talk about why ram-inflated wingtips arent more widely used,
I don't think I've seen this. Which kites have it? Are there any goodpictures on the web?
Andrew
If you fly stunt kites to win competitions, you won't understand, but if
you fly to give pleasure and entertain the audience, you might find AoxomoxoA
Andy Wardley
Robin typeth:
> one of the newest trends in stunt kites is to get the sail completly
> 1: trailing edge vents.
>
> 2: leech lines.
>
> 3: ram-inflated wingtip pockets.
and
4: sail battens.
5: reinforced trailing edges.
6: good design.
Silent kites have been around for a while, but you're right in
that it's one of the "latest trends" - i.e. it's what every new
kite has or is expected to have.
From the above list, I wouldn't bother with 1 because of the
extra work in construction. 4 is a nuisance for the same reason
and I *hate* all those little extra bits that the lines get
caught in (until, that is, you loose them). I'm not sure about
5 but I'm not sure why. Personal predjudice against the number
5 perhaps?
My understanding of ram-air pockets is that they're added to
*increase* drag rather than tension the trailing edge, although
this may be a side-effect. This comes from a discussion I had
with Christoph Fokken of HQ kites who explained to me that the
ram air pockets are added to increase drag on the wing-tips to
slow down the turning rate. That's my (admittedly hazy)
understanding of the principle, but I welcome anyone to correct
me or add detail. It's an interesting idea which I haven't
experimented with, but probably should.
A combination of good design and a leech line, are IMHO the
way to go. The "good design" part usually relies on a tension
induced by a curved leading edge pulling the trailing edge
tight. The leech line does the rest. I just picked up on
another reply the fact that you can detach the leech line from
a Millenium without introducing noise - such is the quality
of the design. A kite I'm much more familiar with, the Phantom
Elite, displays a similar property, although you do get a slight
rasp rather than total silence.
This then promotes the question:
** "Is reducing drag always a good idea?" **
Look at the TOTL kites which have been used so successfully
by teams in the World Cup (smugfully drops in the fact that
the UK got #1, #2 and #3, <smug> <smug>). The Rad makes for
such a good team kite *because* of the innefficiency of the
sail. The slackness in the trailing edge causes drag which
effectively controls the speed of the kite, albeit at the
cost of making a racket that can be heard half a mile away.
A kite like the Phantom Elite with a super-efficient sail is
slick, drives exceptionally well and tricks easily. These
are very desirable features in a kite until you have four
or more flying in formation in a brisk wind and everything
is happening real fast. This is why teams favour older
kites that don't have all these new-fangled improvements.
On the other hand, individual and pairs flier seem to have
embraced, welcomed and adopted to the improvements in kite
design - illustrated by the fact that the PE is by far the
most popular inidividual/pairs kite in the UK competitions.
** All hope is not lost for the poor team fliers **
I believe there are ways to add speed control and "tame"
a fast kite without reducing the efficiency of the sail
and the benefits that are inherent in that. Air brakes
(nappies/diapers/whatever-you-call-them) are not a suitable
solution in my opinion, because it's just adding drag and
in the wrong place. I've been playing about with bridles
again (double-dynamic cross-bridles if you must know) and
I've had some promising results. Ram-air pockets might be
another area of interest.
Whatever the solution, it has to be one that adds controlled
drag in the right place and at the right time. When the wind
is low, or the kite is stationary relative to the wind (i.e.
when tricking), there should be no braking effect. As the
speed of the kite increases, so should the brakes.
No doubt these issues will be solved. There are some
remarkably talented kite designers and innovators out there
(Tim Benson, Dean Jordan, Ray Bordelon, Mike Simmons, etc,
etc, to name a few) and over the years, they've move the
technology of kites forward in way we would never have imagined.
Damn exciting stuff.
Cheers
Andy
--
Andy Wardley <a...@peritas.com> http://www.peritas.com/~abw
A responsible and professional individual who has no need for silly
comments, inane banter or bizarre "in-jokes" in his signature file.
RLoiseau
In article <960815202...@tug.com>, Andrew Beattie <and...@tug.com>
writes:
>> come on, lets talk about why ram-inflated wingtips arent more widely
used,
>
>I don't think I've seen this. Which kites have it? Are there any
>goodpictures on the web?
>
>
Like in the Tori Tako Silencer. I just traded for this kite, and It
should be gere tomorrow. I will let everyone know what I think when I
return from LB.
their is also a review in Kitelines.
Later
Robin
Peter de Jong
There are more ways to silence a kite:
Sail battens:
Very effective; I build a 5.6 AR "delta" with a straight trailing edge
and battens and it's completely silent.
Stand - off's :
I had a Hawaiian that I wanted to make silent: first thing was to make
the trailing edge sections curved ( see below ) second thing to do was
to change the stand-off. It now is a flexible 1.5 mm carbon stand-off
that runs in a bow from the spar to the end of the batten at the the
trailing edge. This way it always keeps tension on the trailing edge.
Some years ago there was a book called "Lenkdrachen" (Schimmelpfennig)
who build a delta using a double sail with parallel seams for about
3/4 of the area ... it inflates a bit and should work too.
*Never* use a circle section for a trailing edge, use a chain curve...
The easiest way is to make a bow from a thin rod and use that curve
for your trailing edge. 10 to 15 % bow should do it.
Another thing is the weave. generally it should be as parralel to the
trailing edge as possible and never use a zig-zag stich on the hem.
My 2 cents
Regards, Peter
Greetings from Holland
Peter de Jong <pdj...@knoware.nl>
A&F Custom Kites Werkhoven NL
Chris Head
In Article<4us82v$g...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, <rloi...@aol.com> write:
> if you can make
> kites that dont need leech lines, why not discuss it, this seems to be a
> good option. If people feel that leech lines detract from a kites
> performance--explain why.
If anything, I would have though that performance would degrade slightly
without one, in moderate to strong winds. After all, noise is one form of
energy, and if the kite is creating a lot of noise, therefore there must be
less energy going towards keeping it flying.
> I had an Idea earlier this year to re-inforce the trailing edge by sewing
> little pockets using a zig-zag all along the trailing edge, and then
> sewing .030 carbon in there. this would be an extremly light weight
> batten. would this have any advantages over a leech line?
I would have thought a slighly concave curved trailing edge with leech line
sewn in that can be pulled and tied off to the wingtip (like on flexifoil's
psycho. WOW!!! just bought one of these!... still finding out what it can
do!!). This way, with the curved edge, the leech line is pulling almost
parallel to the spar at the tip.
This way you can alter the tension depending on wind strength. Ensure both
wings are evenly tesioned though, or unexpected tricks may occur on a
sensitive kite!!
> come on, lets talk about why ram-inflated wingtips arent more widely used,
> and if there are disadvantages to edge handling with screening. I posted
> the message to learn, not to be flamed. Even if I hadnt known that silent
> flight was an older developement, how would you have made some "newbie" if
> they had asked the same question. (this isnt all directed at you dean,
> just frustrated with all the replys I have seen so far.)
I keep trying to achieve at least the *option* of silent flight with all my
large stunters, as I have had complaints from people who obviously don't
understand our need for *spectacle* and *show*, which almost by definition
needs *some* sound accompaniment... (although, to be fair these were near
campsites, but always at *sensible* times of day, I suppose canvas doesn't
stop the noise as well as bricks and mortar do!!)
Interstingly, while on holiday recently on one small beach, after about half
an hour's flying and generally messing about, trying a new idea or two, I was
rather surprised (and pleased!) to get a ripple of applause from several
groups of people. THAT never happened before..... although many a time the
kites flown from our holiday beach spot have generated lots of interest and
we've met numerous people who say "I remember I made a kite when I was young
and we had great fun....." ..... then I hand them a kite line and watch their
faces light up!!
How many of you have taught one of the above type of person the gentle art of
maneuvering an Indian fighter around the sky? It's great fun, and many people
seem to pick up the basics quite quickly.
Tight lines! (especially for POWER kiters!)
Chris Head
hea...@online.rednet.co.uk
RLoiseau
In article <3214a4f...@news.knoware.nl>, pdj...@knoware.nl (Peter de
Jong) writes:
> and never use a zig-zag stich on the hem.
really? why does a zig zag create noise?
b.c.shelby
...in my quest for silent flight, I turned to the simplest solution: The
Flexi.
Marty Sasaki (mss) wrote:
: My first comment is a silent kite isn't necessarily a better
: kite. Noise can sometimes add to the fun and can certainly add to the
: impact of a routine.
...I feel the love (or hate) of noise is a personal choice. I used to fly
a Tori Eagle (makes even a North Shore seem to whisper), and at first
loved the noise--the louder the better. When I became interested in
Ballet flying, I wanted something quieter. About the only silent kite
out at the time was the Flexi, which I competed with for almost 2 years.
I still like the Flexi, but unfortunately realaise that it's heyday is
over in this era of pinpoint handling and hot tricks.
I personally believe that extraneous (sp?) noise takes away from a
performance, particularly when it "competes" with the flyer's soundtrack
for attention. I guess it's the musician in me that makes me feel this
way (I once went to a piano concert where the performer had a nasty habit
of stamping on the pedals, kind of took the "romance" out of the Chopin
piece he was playing). I'll admit I have seen some performances (Kobe Eschun
[sp.?], Miguel) where the kite's noise actually enhanced the effect, but
for me these instances have been rare.
...I agree with Dean & co., build a kite "right" and the problem is solved
in the simplest manner. I think Ray Merry has done so with the Flexi, I
have one that's almost 5 years old, and it still flies great.
--
...b.c.shelby
fur...@teleport.com...
Andy Wardley
Andrew Beattie wrote:
>
> I don't think I've seen this. Which kites have it? Are there any goodpictures on the web?
The HQ kites (Jam Session, Maestralae, etc) are the ones that
spring to mind. Basically, it's a small pocket added to the
wing tip which is open at the top, allowing air to fill it.
If memory serves, the Jam Session (and others?) are sewn
down the middle, dividing it into two pockets to prevent too
much bilging.
Knowing what a fan you are of crap ascii-art (and considering that
I'm widely regarded as producing some of the crappest), I felt
inclined to drop in a little picture:
/ open
/\ /
/ \
/ \_/
/ _/
/ _/
/ _/
/ _/
/_/
On reflection, I think I've surpassed myself and created a
picture of momumental crapness that has little educational and
no aesthetic value whatsoever. But I hope you enjoy it.