Sewing/joining fabrics
Michael Chiu
I am finally going to make the jump from the 15 minute garbage bag and
dowel box kite to something a little more permanent. One of my hindrances
has been my lack of sewing skills.
Are there alternatives to sewing Icarex or ripstop nylon? My guess is that
there isn't anything that can provide as strong a bond as sewing. If
sewing is the best, can anyone suggest an easy route to sewing. I read
today about using double sided tape to keep the fabrics together while
sewing. That seems logical be/c it makes the fabrics easier to manage. Is
the double sided tape preferable to hot glue? Can someone describe
"fusing" fabrics together? I've melted plastics together with the tip of a
hot glue gun, but I have never tried it with fabrics.
Lastly, are there any web pages that give instructions on any of the above
procedures? In addition, are there any pages that give plans for stunt
kites? I've been making different varities of plastic box kites for a
while, and I'd like to branch into something different. Even the
Rokakku(sp?) is looking interesting right now.
Thanks,
Mike Chiu
yoy...@insync.net
Exiled Expat
Dear Mike,
I found this Web Site to have plans for kites. Good luck with the sewing.
I'll bet you wish you had taken that home economics course now! But seriously
the sewing I find to be very relaxing and great fun.
Hans Lutsch
Dubai, United Arab Emirates
P.S. David Gomberg and the clan are here in Dubai this week and are flying up
a desert storm.
Exiled Expat
Dear Mike,
I found this Web Site to have plans for kites. Good luck with the sewing.
I'll bet you wish you had taken that home economics course now! But seriously
the sewing I find to be very relaxing and great fun.
http://www.win.tue.nl/cs/fm/pp/kites/
KiteFlyingFool
Michael Chiu wrote:
>
> I am finally going to make the jump from the 15 minute garbage bag and
> dowel box kite to something a little more permanent. One of my hindrances
> has been my lack of sewing skills.
>
> Are there alternatives to sewing Icarex or ripstop nylon? My guess is that
> there isn't anything that can provide as strong a bond as sewing. If
> sewing is the best, can anyone suggest an easy route to sewing. I read
> today about using double sided tape to keep the fabrics together while
> sewing. That seems logical be/c it makes the fabrics easier to manage. Is
> the double sided tape preferable to hot glue? Can someone describe
> "fusing" fabrics together? I've melted plastics together with the tip of a
> hot glue gun, but I have never tried it with fabrics.
There are some sailmakers tape that will hold the nylon together.
Whenever I have tried to sew over the double sided tape it gummed the
needles up badly and often enough to make it not worth it.
Practice is all it really takes. I'm no great kitemaker yet but each one
gets a little better.
>
> Lastly, are there any web pages that give instructions on any of the above
> procedures? In addition, are there any pages that give plans for stunt
> kites? I've been making different varities of plastic box kites for a
> while, and I'd like to branch into something different. Even the
> Rokakku(sp?) is looking interesting right now.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike Chiu
> yoy...@insync.net
--
Who me? I'm just a KiteFlyingFool
http://www.teleport.com\~andyt
k...@NOSPAMteleport.com
Remove NOSPAM to reply
Thomas D. McCune
Michael,
Besides tape, I have seen use of a glue stick and hot tacking with a very fine
point soldering or wood burning pencil. Both methods work well and are better
than trying to hold sailcloth together.
Tom
Tzek
>
>There are some sailmakers tape that will hold the nylon together.
>Whenever I have tried to sew over the double sided tape it gummed the
>needles up badly and often enough to make it not worth it.
>
>Practice is all it really takes. I'm no great kitemaker yet but each one
>gets a little better.
A little silicone on the sewing needles will keep the glue from building up so
fast. Don't use the tape you get from fabric stores. Get tape from Hang Em High
or the Kite Studio, It is thinner and easier to sew through.
Axelman
"Where there is a wave, there is wind"
KiteFlyingFool
Tzek wrote:
[SNIP]
> A little silicone on the sewing needles will keep the glue from building up so
> fast. Don't use the tape you get from fabric stores. Get tape from Hang Em High
> or the Kite Studio, It is thinner and easier to sew through.
>
> Axelman
> "Where there is a wave, there is wind"
Actually I don't use tape anymore. Either I hot tack (OHOH here goes
another long thread) or I use
a light spray adheisive.
jeff greenwald
>Michael Chiu wrote:
>>
>> I am finally going to make the jump from the 15 minute garbage bag and
>> dowel box kite to something a little more permanent. One of my hindrances
>> has been my lack of sewing skills.
I was there myself not long ago. My advice, get a machine, some spare
fabric and start playing... IMHO it's really not that hard to run a
straight stitch down some cloth... (especially after considerable
practice) but, nylon does have a tendancy to "slide"... read on.
>>
>> Are there alternatives to sewing Icarex or ripstop nylon? My guess is that
>> there isn't anything that can provide as strong a bond as sewing. If
>> sewing is the best, can anyone suggest an easy route to sewing. I read
>> today about using double sided tape to keep the fabrics together while
>> sewing. That seems logical be/c it makes the fabrics easier to manage. Is
>> the double sided tape preferable to hot glue? Can someone describe
>> "fusing" fabrics together? I've melted plastics together with the tip of a
>> hot glue gun, but I have never tried it with fabrics.
Some people use a spray bottle/atomizer and put a fine spray of water
on their fabrics to keep them in place before they put them "under the
needle". I've tried this myself a few times and haven't had much luck
with it. One thing that does work very well for me is a glue stick.
I use a "UHU" brand that I can get at the local Wal-Mart. The hard
part is waiting for it to dry (although this doesn't take long). I
just dab on a little bit every so often to help keep my fabric from
slipping. You would think that this stuff would gum up your needles
but I've never had problems with it (others may... ).
But, the best thing is experience and practice. Just keep trying and
everything will eventually come.
>>
>> Lastly, are there any web pages that give instructions on any of the above
>> procedures? In addition, are there any pages that give plans for stunt
>> kites? I've been making different varities of plastic box kites for a
>> while, and I'd like to branch into something different. Even the
>> Rokakku(sp?) is looking interesting right now.
>>
Look here for a very comprehensive list of plans:
http://www.win.tue.nl/cs/fm/pp/kites/plans/plans.html
>> Thanks,
>> Mike Chiu
>> yoy...@insync.net
Ge...@digitalfidelity.com
> I am finally going to make the jump from the 15 minute garbage bag and
> dowel box kite to something a little more permanent. One of my hindrances
> has been my lack of sewing skills.
>
> Are there alternatives to sewing Icarex or ripstop nylon? My guess is
that
> there isn't anything that can provide as strong a bond as sewing. If
> sewing is the best, can anyone suggest an easy route to sewing.
You know what, sewing is (I feel) the fastest and easiest way to join fabric.
I had never sewed, and my first project was a 5m^2 Sputnik traction kite sewen
on an ANCIENT borrowed Singer machine. The results were very good. Don't be
intimidated...GO FOR IT...it's easy! At first I too would sometimes join
fabric with tape or spray adhesive prior to sewing. Now I DREAD when I have to
do this for some special reason. It is sloppy, and never as easy or more
accurate than just sewing. I suggest borrowing a machine, or buying a used one
until you are sure this is something you want to do. Those first few kites
will give you the experience to realize what you want from a good sewing
machine. If you are asking for suggestions...get a Pfaff with a walking foot.
They rock.
Enjoy!
Gene Matocha
Ge...@DigitalFidelity.com
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Kite-a-holic
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, jeff greenwald wrote:
>I was there myself not long ago. My advice, get a machine, some spare
>fabric and start playing... IMHO it's really not that hard to run a
>straight stitch down some cloth... (especially after considerable
>practice) but, nylon does have a tendancy to "slide"... read on.
[snip]
>Some people use a spray bottle/atomizer and put a fine spray of water
>on their fabrics to keep them in place before they put them "under the
>needle". I've tried this myself a few times and haven't had much luck
>with it. One thing that does work very well for me is a glue stick.
Okay...after reading all the comments, and hearing all the complaints,
about 'how difficult' it is to sew ripstop due to it being 'slippery',
I finally have to give voice to a question that has been going around my
head for awhile...
Altho I haven't sewn in decades, I grew up in a household which was very
'into' sewing -- including any number of items made (or lined) with
'slippery' fabric...and I keep wondering why I don't see any mention here
of the old sewer's trick of putting a piece of tissue paper between the
layers of 'slippery' fabric, to keep the pieces from slipping?
Just pin the tissue between the 2 layers of fabric and then sew your
seam, ripping the tissue out afterwards...this is also a technique used
in traditional applique'...
You want _difficulty_, try putting a nylon lining into a blazer/jacket
sometime...
June ;-)
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the other 364.
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Tom Arbster
Hi .
ref the Below..
I have been using the GLUE STICK for about 10 years, to hold the
fabric while it is being sewn. and so far I am very pleased with
it...(But it does leave some residue on the faberic....it needs to be
washed off with a water soaked rag) after the sewing is completed.
try it you will like it also..
tom A.
**CLIP**
>sewing is the best, can anyone suggest an easy route to sewing. I read
>today about using double sided tape to keep the fabrics together while
>sewing. That seems logical be/c it makes the fabrics easier to manage.
**CLIP**
Regards,
Tom A.
I've learned that the greater a person's sense of guilt, the greater
his need to cast blame on others.
Come visit us @"http://www.telepath.com/kiteman/" OR http://www.io.com/~kinetic/
E-mail = kit...@telepath.com
Goodwinds
>I have been using the GLUE STICK for about 10 years, to hold the
>fabric while it is being sewn. and so far I am very pleased with
>it...(But it does leave some residue
A man after my own heart! Good for you Tom. Glue stick is waer soluable and
with a little effort cleans up easily. We have our own brand that does not
leave the residue as badly, stays harder (we all like that) and doesn't mildew.
Another method for non sewers is to use 3M 9460 tape. It is a bit expensive
but even David Britain is using it and feels like a whole new world us open to
him. There is an article about it in the Winter/Srping '95 issue.
Glue stick is for me though, with a little practice and a few new techniques,
you can save the earth and save your lungs.
Kathy Goodwind
rec.kites
David Lindgren
In article <3535E91F...@cit.gu.edu.au>,
Anthony Thyssen <ant...@cit.gu.edu.au> wrote:
>Ok here is a problem for the news group and any soultions would
>be appreciated.
> [snip]
>
>The question is How would YOU join mylar and ripstop!
You could try using some of that ripstop repair tape. Looks like
normal ripstop, but it comes off a roll like a piece of tape. Dunno
whether you can get a polyester variety, but I have used the nylon
stuff to repair a hole in a kite sail before.
HTH
Dave
Steve Ferrel / Kite Studio
The combination of ripstop and ripstop repair tape might work but should
probably be sewn to the ripstop. the adhesive should work fine on mylar.
If you want a stronger tack.... use insignia cloth that has a permanent
adhesive (i just inspected a kite i made about 4-5 years ago and the
insignia letters have not yet begun to peel) only problem, insignia is a
bit heavy.... (4.2 oz/yd)
You might also try the 9460 double tape. Articles have been written and i
have seen many kites (even cellular) put together with it and hold up great.
Could there be alternatives to a zipper? velcro perhaps?
--Steve
--Kite Studio
bo...@hellcent.com
AN>Ok here is a problem for the news group and any soultions would
AN>be appreciated.
AN>I have been building circoflexes for a while and want to do something
AN>a little different.
AN>I want to create a silver mylar Circoflex but want to have a black ripstop
AN>leading edge which will take the wear, allow me to add a zipper
AN>to remove the spar easilly, and would look really cool!
AN>The question is How would YOU join mylar and ripstop!
Hi Anthony....
I've made quite a handfull of circos over here, but never did one in
"mixed-media" so to speak..
Wouldn't a zipper add a bit too much weight in the leading edge ?? I
have this visual image of a big zipper that goes totally around the
front of the kite... I just sew a button-hole in the spar pocket on
mine, which makes for easy enough spar-removal, plus I have my bridle
lines attached to small sewn-on loops at the appropriate points,
allowing the spar(s) to come out, then the kite can live in a stuff-bag,
and the spars (I use 48" lengths held together with little brass
ferrules) can live in another bag.
The idea of using shimmery/shiny mylar in combination with ripstop is
most interesting, but I don't have any relevant experience joining the
two materials together... maybe a prismatex type of material would be
simpler to deal with... get the shine and shimmer, along with the
working properties of fabric rather than mylar (?)
I'd be interested to know if you find a solution to this... as I said
before it sounds like a hellova neat idea :)
Stan ...aka bo...@hellcent.com
(building & flying NON-traditional kites)
Jean Lemire
Hi folks.
A couple of ideas about the Circoflex.
All the ones I saw so far have never have their leading edge spar removed. I first met the inventor of that kite in Verdun last year. He simply twist the leading edge in a figure eight. So the kite goes from 10 feet diameter (approx.) to about 5 feet. He does it again and end up with a coil not bigger than 2 and a half feet. So in a bag about the size of a car tire he can pack four or five Circoflex. The bag has a zippered cover.
You can effectively keep a small opening (closed by velcro maybe) to allow for the spar removal. But you will have to build this spar in five or six segments. You will then need joints that add weigth. This goes against the idea of a mylar kite (mylar is intended for look but also low weight, I presume).
As far as joining mylar and ripstop I have the following experience. Our super ultra light kites (model "El Pronto" from "Azur") are made of mylar (0.5 mil thick, thats 0.0005 inch or 0.013 mm or 13 microns) and half ounce polyester (Icarex). These are glued together with a double sided tape made by 3M. The only sewing on these kite are between the polyester pannel and the leading edge (3/4 ounce ripstop) and on the trailing edge. So far these kites survived a year of flying in temperature ranging from -20 deg. C (-4 deg. F) to +30 deg. C (86 deg. F). I think "Prism" are using the same stuff in the "Vapor".
The tape has not disbonded so far.
Maybe you could also use two layers of autoadhesive ripstop to sandwich the mylar and then sew all that together. Though this might gum your needle.
Hope it helps.
Jean (Johnny) Lemire of team S.T.A.F.F. from Montreal, Canada.
KitesRFun
Does anyone have a reasonably detailed Circoflex plan available in English?
If so, I'd love a copy...or directions on where to find it...
Thanks!
Steve Rezac
Las Vegas, Nevada
Kite...@aol.com
br...@hellcent.com
KI>Does anyone have a reasonably detailed Circoflex plan available in English?
KI>If so, I'd love a copy...or directions on where to find it...
There is a book by Ron Moulton and Pat Lloyd called Kites
It has plans in english for a circoflex, as well as plans for a wide
variety of other kites. It is among my favorite books on kites.
Thomas D. McCune
Steve,
I'd be interested in one to. Have seen Craig Wilson fly his and it is awesome.
I assume you have seen the french plans at
http://homne.nordnet.fr/~jlesage/miztailes/circofle.htm or the notes in
Anthony Thyssen's site "http://www.sct.gu.edu.au/~anthony/kites/circoflex.
With a dictionary the french plans seem not to difficult to understand but I am
still a uncertain about the trailing edge leach line (as Andrew refers to it)
Tom McCune
KitesRFun wrote:
> Does anyone have a reasonably detailed Circoflex plan available in English?
>
> If so, I'd love a copy...or directions on where to find it...
>
G Engvall
>but I am
>still a uncertain about the trailing edge leach line
I realize that the post I am responding to is over a week old. I hope the
"current & pertinent" police don't get out their flamethrowers...
When I make the sail for mine, I make a 1 inch sleeve all along the front, and
all along the back. The leach line is 97.23 percent of the circumference of the
Circoflex.
When I make a 20 foot (240" circumference) Circoflex, the leach line is 233-3/8
inches long. I sew the sleeve completely closed, then cut a slit into it with
scissors to insert the leach line. This makes a cleaner appearance than leaving
an un-sewn spot.
Take about 240" of string, tie an Overhand Loop in one end. Measure 233-3/8"
from the tip (end) of that loop, and put a mark. Insert the line all the way
thru the sleeve. Put the end of the line thru the loop, then pull to the mark,
and tie in place with several half hitches.
Pull the leach line all the way into the sleeve, and "even up" the bunching of
the sail all the way around.
Hope that helps.
good heavens;
gary engvall
geng...@aol.com, http://members.aol.com/gengvall/index.html
Aero ergo sum. I fly, therefore, I am.