NPW 9 LK250 5.3m
Xd5200
havn't seen much chatter on the NG about this kite...
this is a wickedly nasty pulling kite and I cannot fly it in more than 5 mph
wind.....it just about rips the handles out of my hands even in a light
breeze...i fly my 3.3 HQ Symphony with a control bar + harness, that kite has
dragged me 25 yards in a stiff 20-25 MPH wind....I would be afraid to harness
into the NPW 9 without some sort of safety release system to kill the kite. the
pull this kite has is absolutely horrific, and i seriously underestimated the
size and power of this wing....in an extremely light wind 2 mph it's fun to
fly, a big slow moving locomotive, but still manageable....crank the breeze up
a little, and the thing is a ripping monster.....
i don't mind being dragged around a bit, but when the end of the field is
reached or i've had enough, i need a way to kill the action reliably and
safely. the 3.3 foil moves fast enough that i can fly it to the edge of the
window or down it quickly if i get in trouble, but the NPW doesn't move that
fast across the window for me to be confident with this method.
can anybody recommend some sort of release system i can use with either quad
handles w/a link line to my harness, or my control bar + harness?? I will need
to harness in and lay my body weight back against the pull of the kite in order
to fly the NPW, but am concerned about being permanently hooked in, and the
link line between the quad handles eliminates the "just let go of one handle"
theory. I tried rigging up a safety release line to my dual-line control bar
setup with a wrist strap and about 6 feet of shock cord attached to a leader
line on one side, but the one time i had to let go of the control bar when i
got in trouble with my 3.3 foil, the shock cord snapped, and kite and bar went
sailing away to get caught in a tree about 10 feet up. i was using parachute
cord for the leaders, and thought the safety line made of the parachute cord
would be strong enough to retain the out-of-control kite without snapping.
any ideas???
thanks
tim
Larry Green
Xd5200 <xd5...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021224015317...@mb-cd.aol.com...
From the above it sounds like you are flying the NPW9 on two lines, is this
correct?
My advice would be to switch to four lines and make use of the brakes! A really
nice feature of the NPW's is that you can fly them as either 2 or 4 liners by
simply separating the bridles. Is this a commercial kite or home built? I would
assume that even commercial kites are bridled so that you can separate the lines
for 2 or 4 line flying.
I built a 2.8M^2 NPW5 in the summer and have just finished two 4.8M^2 NPW5's as
Xmas gifts for a buddy. When flying as a 4 liner the brakes work extremely well
and this kite can be brought out of the sky in an instant.
With regard to the 'kite-killer' wrist strap...........I too use one of
these..........mostly when the wind is strong or when either my youngest
daughter (9 yrs old) or a novice is flying my NPW. The important thing to
remember though is that it *must* be attached to *one* of the brake lines. The
idea is that in an emergency you let go of both handles and the wrist strap
applies tension to the brake on one side which in turn collapses the kite into a
pile of laundry that simply falls out of the sky. The tether also prevents the
kite from flying away as you experienced. Whenever I have used mine there has
been very little tension on the wrist strap in an emergency release so I guess
you were unfortunate when yours broke although as I said above they are supposed
to be attached to a brake line and not a power line!
Hope this helps and have *safe* fun out there!
Larry
Xd5200
the one time that shock cord snapped was with my 3.3 foil flying dual on a
control bar...so the safety line was attached to a power line, which didn't
collapse the kite as i had anticipated, it put the thing into a high speed
death spiral with generated a huge amount of force and thus snapped the line at
the point where i attached it to the power line.
i have been flying the NPW on quad lines...but in the wind i was flying the
other day even braking the kite didn't do a hell of a lot to reduce the pull,
it did send the kite straight to the ground though. even as the kite was diving
tail-first to the ground it had a huge amount of pull. it bounced off the
ground, billowed up again and headed skyward.
i'll have to try attaching a safety rig line to one of the brakes as you
suggested. i've got to get a link line for the quad handles so i can fly this
kite laying my 195 lbs on the ground against the pull of the kite. the NPW 9
pulls so hard that i cannot hang on to the handles unasissted by the harness,
but i want to harness safely so i can kill the kite and not lose it in the
process.
what i should have done is ordered the 3.4m NPW 9!!! i had no idea of the power
these wings generate. i have no problem controlling my 3.3 foil in a good wind,
so i thought i could handle the larger NPW. i'll fly it, but it'll probably
spend more time in my kite bag until i decide if i want to get into buggying!!
i'm sure the kite is easier to hang on to when you're moving with the kite.
Next one i have my eye on:::: 4.9 Blade......probably a mistake too, but what
the hell!!!!
thanks for the input
tim
Larry Green
> Larry:
>
> the one time that shock cord snapped was with my 3.3 foil flying dual on a
> control bar...so the safety line was attached to a power line, which didn't
> collapse the kite as i had anticipated, it put the thing into a high speed
> death spiral with generated a huge amount of force and thus snapped the line
at
> the point where i attached it to the power line.
>
Yup, that's what I thought had happened. Not only would all the pressure be
applied to the safety line but a turning moment would also act on it,
effectively 'stiffening' the cord and making it more prone to failure.
> i have been flying the NPW on quad lines...but in the wind i was flying the
> other day even braking the kite didn't do a hell of a lot to reduce the pull,
> it did send the kite straight to the ground though. even as the kite was
diving
> tail-first to the ground it had a huge amount of pull. it bounced off the
> ground, billowed up again and headed skyward.
>
I take that you did not have a chance to fly it out of the 'power window' when
you applied the brakes. NPW's will give strong pull almost anywhere but the most
pull by far is directly in front of the flier (assuming you have your back
square to the wind) and about 8-10 feet off the ground. You may find that by
flying to the edge of the window and then hitting the brakes the kite will come
down and stay down. Blustery strong winds are always a problem with foils as it
only takes one gust to lift the leading edge/nose and the beast is airborne
again!
> i'll have to try attaching a safety rig line to one of the brakes as you
> suggested. i've got to get a link line for the quad handles so i can fly this
> kite laying my 195 lbs on the ground against the pull of the kite. the NPW 9
> pulls so hard that i cannot hang on to the handles unasissted by the harness,
> but i want to harness safely so i can kill the kite and not lose it in the
> process.
I would recommend a safety system of some sort, if not for your safety then for
the safety of others downwind! I suffer from a debilitating illness and I have
lost weight to the point where I now weigh only 130 lbs. (5' 11" tall) and my
2.8 M^2 NPW5 can be a handful in strong winds. I will not fly without the 'kite
killer' in strong wind conditions as I know I do not have the strength to hold
back the kite if a sudden gust comes along.
I am seriously looking at building either a larger NPW5 or a NPW9 but it will be
flown with a harness/back strap of some sort as I know I will not be able to
hold on to it without one.
> what i should have done is ordered the 3.4m NPW 9!!! i had no idea of the
power
> these wings generate. i have no problem controlling my 3.3 foil in a good
wind,
> so i thought i could handle the larger NPW. i'll fly it, but it'll probably
> spend more time in my kite bag until i decide if i want to get into buggying!!
They do generate a lot of power don't they! It will make a good light wind kite
until you can figure out a harness/safety system for it but for strong wind days
I would suggest a smaller kite ;-)
> i'm sure the kite is easier to hang on to when you're moving with the kite.
Yes it is. The energy is used up by creating motion in the board/buggy but a
harness is still a good idea even then.
> Next one i have my eye on:::: 4.9 Blade......probably a mistake too, but what
> the hell!!!!
>
Lol..........have fun but watch out if you park the Blade overhead. NPW's do not
generally generate much in the way of lift and can be safely parked overhead
while you take a 'breather'.........Blades on the other hand are renowned for
generating lift as well as pull and most of the kiting injuries we hear about
seem to be from peopled getting 'lofted' by a large foil parked overhead in
strong winds! Take care and fly safe!
Larry
Xd5200
happy and safe flying to all
tim
Matt
BillP
Everyone had good info about it, so I thought I'd leave well enuff
alone.... But now that you mention it..... ~*O)
Many of us in the NPW and NPW9 world try and impart the fact they pull
like HELL ~ especially after we've flown one! Listen up, newbies and even
you doubting Thomas's,... these things can HURT you if you aren't careful
and attentive!!
NPWBill in Phx.
"Matt" <mth...@NOSPAMeurobell.co.uk> wrote in message
news:izrO9.2267$7n5.16...@news-text.cableinet.net...
LB
yaughting accessory. They have a small cord with a plastic ball or similar
on the end. Pull the cord and sayonara kite. Of course a leash would be
appropriate to avoid hassling or hurting those downwind.
Also, definitely go with four lines.
MIKE
"Xd5200" <xd5...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021224015317...@mb-cd.aol.com...
BillP
Frankly, I'm glad to see this discussion ongoing, Here's a link to a
fairly fancy "Chicken release" system used for kite surfing and has other
applicable uses, too.
www.embado.com/kitesurfkit/chickenrelease/features.htm
The NASAWING is basically a modified parachute, and by releasing one
handle of a 2 line system it STILL constitutes half a parachute ~ and still
can equate to getting your butt drug downwind for quite some distance if you
can't let go (and some folks DON'T!!)
Fly with 4 lines!! Sure, it's a bit more expensive for 2 more lines,
but 4 line control and de-powering the kite is well worth the cost of those
two "extra" lines!! Lot's more fun, too!!
As for the Chicken Release, it may be pretty tough trying to find a
pull-knob when you're sliding on your belly across a field covered with
whatever; sand, rocks, weeds, and the all present thorn-weed patches so
prevalent in the states. These type releases are used mainly on the water,
so using 4 lines is pretty inexpensive insurance in the long run, and a kill
line from your wrist or belt to one of the brake lines is quite cost
effective. Pay for some more line now, or pay with the skin off your ass
later!
If you fly in more than 10Mph winds and NPW's bigger than 2.0^2 then use
some precautions!!
NPWBill in Phx.
"LB" <transam(remove this to reply)@netspace.net.au> wrote in message
news:aul7u0$3196$1...@otis.netspace.net.au...
Xd5200
with a dual set of Dyneema lines...
then i purchased a 500/300 lb set of Spectra quad lines...i've found the
Spectra much more troublesome than the Dyneema..very prone to twisting and
tangles...the Dyneema appears to be a stiffer line and a lot less hassle....any
thoughts on this???
also thanks for the input on the chicken release systems...it seems to me that
a link-line between my quad handles and a safety line attached to one of the
brake lines as suggested by larry appears to be the simplest approach to my
problem stated in the initial post of this thread. this will allow me to
harness in with my Q-Foil harness with the quad handles and use my body weight
against the pull of the kite.
i am still shocked at the pull force the NPW 9 5.3m generates. this is simply a
ferocious kite, period. for anybody that's into balls-out power in a kite, buy
one. for beginners, forget it. don't even think about one of these in this
size. buy one of the smaller ones if you're bent on trying the NPW design.
another question: my lineset for the NPW 9 is 100ft. i've read that shorter
lines mean less power to the kite.. is this true? could i expect a much more
manageable pull if i rig up a 50 ft. lineset??
and this is for NPW Bill....i've seen your website..very cool, some of the
kites you've built are beautiful...do you have any up for sale?? or what would
you charge to build one?? i'd love to have a custom built one of these...(in
maybe a smaller size i can actually fly for more than 10 minutes without
risking a coronary) hehe
regards
tim
BillP
picked up on it. We're still negotiating....
Bill
> and this is for NPW Bill....I've seen your website..very cool, some of the
> kites you've built are beautiful...do you have any up for sale?? or what
would
> you charge to build one?? I'd love to have a custom built one of
these...(in
> maybe a smaller size i can actually fly for more than 10 minutes without
> risking a coronary) hehe
>
> regards
> Tim
David Brown :o)
> hey guys, how about line recommendations....my first power kite foils i
flew
> with a dual set of Dyneema lines...
> then i purchased a 500/300 lb set of Spectra quad lines...i've found the
> Spectra much more troublesome than the Dyneema..very prone to twisting and
> tangles...the Dyneema appears to be a stiffer line and a lot less
hassle....any
> thoughts on this???
So what's the difference between Dyneema and Spectra? I thought they were
the American and English words for the same thing.
--
David :o)
http://kitemap.co.uk
Reply address invalid due to total spamage.
If you must reply by Email, please use address at above site.
Michael (Mikey) Moss
"David Brown :o)" <ne...@parkcourt.co.uk> wrote in message
news:aumkhu$8c9l0$1...@ID-17525.news.dfncis.de...
>
> So what's the difference between Dyneema and Spectra? I thought they were
> the American and English words for the same thing.
>
> --
> David :o)
> http://kitemap.co.uk
wether making Spectra lines, or Dyneema lines has a different process, a
different weave, a different braid, a different coating, a different
address, ect..
Now.... If the original poster were to quote specific brands and models of
lines he was comparing to each other, things might make more sense...
I really don't have first hand experience with Dyneema linesets, but I
understand there is a big difference between "Climax" brand lines and others
(C-line? I think)..... Over on this side of the pond we mostly have Spectra
linesets sold by Quadrafoil/Active People (a couple different models, I'll
get to later), Lazer, Berry Blue, and I'm sure a bunch of others that will
flame me for forgetting to mention them....
Back to the Quadrafoil lines, I have the most experience with.... The "top
knotch" lineset is Q-Power... Wonderful stuff, Very stiff, abraision
resistant, can even get colors... the lower priced lineset I believe is
called Q Line-up..... Not quite as stiff, not quite as abraision resistant,
and white only..... I used to only be able to get the Line-up stuff, and
winding on and off the handles was kinda a no brainer because they were So
flexible..... When I switched to the Q-Power, I had to re-learn how to wind
onto the handles... This stuff is so stiff that it translates each twist
further down as you are winding, until by time you get to the bridles, ALL
the twists are translated into the bridles... making one hell of a mess,
especially with knotted bridle lines on my self made foils... So I had to
learn to "pinch" the lines about a foot and a half from the handles, wrap,
then reach up and pinch another section and wrap, continuing until I get to
the bridle, where everything is straight..
Now, I'm a Quadrafoil/ Active People fan, but I'm pretty sure that the same
will hold true for Lazer, which makes several different "grades" of Spectra
linesets, and Berry Blue (I once had a Very Very Bad experience with that
brand, and even tho they changed, and were supposed to be much better, I
never tried another set)
Why am I rambling on so.....
Still pissed off from yesterday I guess... A brand new Ozone Frenzy, and
not a teenie, weenie bit of wind..... Again!!!
Arrrrg!!
Xd5200
very thin, a little on the stiff side, and they have a very slight plasticky
feel to them....seem to have a very tight braid...they are thinner in diameter
than the 300# spectra brake lines i have....
the Spectra line i just purchased not too long ago is very limp...i have
nothing against the spectra, it just seems that that lineset i bought
originally for my dual-line HQ foil seems a lot less prone to twisting....
tim
Toerag
Have you thought about a pair of kite killers, if the power get to much they
or you loose control they are affective & dumping the power without loosing
your kite.
Toerag
BillP
safely...
Have a search through the archives as there's a lot there, particularly on
safety
lines attaching to one brake line...
"Toerag" <toer...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:aus0tk$ms9$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...