Flexifoil supplies
Flexifoil International Ltd.
Dear rec.kites Reader,
It has recently come to light that there is a spanner in the kite works.
Andrew Beatti (spanner) is pretending to be a kite trader, pushing our and
other products out on the market at unrealistic prices. He is also
recommending people not to go to kite shops.
While this might be good news for a few of us in the short term it is
really seriously bad news for everybody. It is a wilful destruction of a
growing sport.
Ofcourse we realise that the kite industry is evolving and that changes may
take place in the future. However this industry can and will not survive
without the enthusiasm and dedication of all genuine shops and businesses
offering people choice, service and experience. Andrew has got another job,
these people do not!
We have taken the time to find out where Andrew got his supplies from and
we have cut of his source. We do not want him to sell our products.
Yours sincerely,
Flexifoil International.
Tom Arbster
Paul Chandler
[snip]
>We have taken the time to find out where Andrew got his supplies from and
>we have cut of his source. We do not want him to sell our products.
Bit drastic or what??
What happened to free enterprise and competition?
OK, so Andrew's overheads might be lower than some other full-time
trader, but then there are a few mail order traders around doing much
the same as Andrew. Are Flexi going to cut off their supplies too?
Isn't this how a lot of todays BIG traders started?
Or... am I jumping to conclusions that this is a GENUINE post?
Paul
------------------------------------------------------------------
| PAUL | Pa...@freewind.demon.co.uk | Kite Buggy Nomad :) |
| CHANDLER | http://www.freewind.demon.co.uk | On route to Berrow |
------------------------------------------------------------------
Matthew Lindsay
Hey Andrew, If you can realy sell some flexi stuff cheap give me a good
deal on a super 10, or hyper 12.
Dave Culp
In article <01bcaf0a$becd7180$0101...@flexfoil.demon.co.uk>, "Flexifoil
International Ltd." <in...@flexifoil.co.uk> wrote:
> It has recently come to light that there is a spanner in the kite works.
> Andrew Beatti (spanner) is pretending to be a kite trader, pushing our and
> other products out on the market at unrealistic prices.
This message is rather a shock, to say the least.
A) Andrew Beattie is likely the most believable and amongst the best
regarded kiters on rec.kites (and thus on the planet ;-)
B) Who the *hell* is FIL to set retail pricing?? In the US, this would be
restraint of trade and price fixing, both highly illegal at a Federal
level. If the post is genuine, it is likely an actionable item in and of
itself. Expect a visit from the FBI, folks.
C) Who the *hell* is FIL to set either retail pricing, *OR* the physical
make-up of kiteshops. The best prices in Berkeley, California are most
always out of the back of a fellow's van, parked at the Marina. I shant
give his name, to protect his "sources." Sheesh, I thought Big Brother
went out of fashion a couple of decades ago...
> While this might be good news for a few of us in the short term it is
> really seriously bad news for everybody. It is a wilful destruction of a
> growing sport.
It might be good news for a whole *lot* of us, namely every end user on
the planet. Look, I've got plenty of respect for established kite shops,
and I understand the issue of fixed overhead versus "gypsy" traders, but
folks, this *is* a free market society. If Andrew can provide better
service, at better prices, and includes *professional* technical help, it
seems to me he's just raised the bar a bit for his competition, not
started "willfull destruction of a growing sport." I see a future where
tourists go to kite shops to buy colorful bits of cloth, and serious
kiters go to serious kite suppliers, for serious gear and information.
Who's the loser here?
If "growing" this sport requires restraint of trade, price protection, and
blackmail, perhaps we're all working and playing at the wrong sport?
> We have taken the time to find out where Andrew got his supplies from and
> we have cut of his source. We do not want him to sell our products.
This is corporate greed, pure and simple. I've bought, flown, and
prosletysed nothing but Flexifoil kites for 20 years. Unless I hear a
meaningful retraction, alteration, or denial of the above, from Flexifoil
International, I shall enter into yet another cool free market tool--the
boycott.
Sincerely,
Dave Culp
--
*** CHANGED ADDRESS ***** CHANGED ADDRESS ***** CHANGED ADDRESS ***
Dave Culp SpeedSailing *NEW* e-mail: da...@dcss.org
2004 Silver Lake Way *NEW* web: http://www.dcss.org
Martinez, CA 94553 voice: 510-689-4360
USA fax: 510-943-7409
Dave Cannell
Andrew,
Sounds indeed like someone has something personal going on. Don't let the
bastards grind you down.
Dave,
Way to go Dave... I'll stand behind that also so no more Flexis for me
until I see a retraction on the net.
--
><> ><> ><>
dcan...@voicenet.com Dave Cannell in Sunny Sicily
"Puff boats have destinations, not ETA's"
from The Strange Last Voyage of Donald Crowhurst
------------------------------------------------
Dave Culp (dave...@bdt.com) wrote:
<<<major snippage>>>
: This is corporate greed, pure and simple. I've bought, flown, and
bi...@silverlink.net
In article <daveculp-250...@news2.dnai.com>,
dave...@bdt.com (Dave Culp) wrote:
> This is corporate greed, pure and simple. I've bought, flown, and
> prosletysed nothing but Flexifoil kites for 20 years. Unless I hear a
> meaningful retraction, alteration, or denial of the above, from Flexifoil
> International, I shall enter into yet another cool free market tool--the
> boycott.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Dave Culp
I agree. I was thinking about getting an 8 footer or two in the near
future. Unless Flexifoil apologizes, that's not going to happen.
Bill Rogers
bi...@silverlink.net
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Ian Newham
In article <5tp3fc$ge$1...@tug.com>, Andrew Beattie <gaf...@tug.com> writes
>Flexifoil International Ltd. <in...@flexifoil.co.uk> wrote:
>>It has recently come to light that there is a spanner in the kite works.
>>Andrew Beatti (spanner) is pretending to be a kite trader, pushing our and
>*zouch!*
Stating the obvious - Have you rang FIL yet to confirm that this is for
real? Fri evening, just before a bank holiday weekend would be a good
time to post a wind-up, you probably wouldn't get any reply from FIL
until tuesday.
It's one hell of a reaction for one sale. If it is for real, all they've
succeded in doing is alienating a _lot_ of potential customers. The next
time I think about buying one of their kites I'll bear in mind that
their prices are 'rigged'.
I hope flexifoil realise what a dumb move this post was.
Ian Newham mailto:i...@helen.demon.co.uk
http://www.helen.demon.co.uk
Peter Ulfheden
Flexifoil International Ltd. wrote:
> Dear rec.kites Reader,
>
> It has recently come to light that there is a spanner in the kite works.
> Andrew Beatti (spanner) is pretending to be a kite trader, pushing our and
Unless this posting is a forgery, it has convinced me that the people of
FlexiFoil have absolutely no clue who is doing what for the sport of
kiting. As such they are to be avoided. At least by me.
I'm not reading rec.kites as often as I used to do. I jump in
occasionally but notes with sadness that more and more posts are
concerned with comercial intrests. Now, this has escalated even further.
With the introduction of the posting from Flexifoil International the
comercial intrests has begun to ATTACK the common denominators that
CREATED rec.kites. Namely (in my view):
- Willingness to share
- Willingness to learn
As far as I can tell Andrew is the best living example a rec.kiter
practicing that. Rivaled possibly by Ron Reich
If you have something to tell Andrew regarding your business, please do
so, but keep it out of rec.kites! Andrew keeps his sharing/comercial
ratio to about a zillion. Yours is NIL!
I usually don't call for foul language, but this time my temper is pushed
beyond limits. So.... Flexifools international, take your posting and
shove it where the sun never shines, also take a few kites as well, I'm
sure there is ample room.
Peter
(Although being the National director for STACK Sweden I'm entitled to
a personal view)
--
[]--------------------------------------------------------[]
| Peter Ulfheden | pe...@hmab.se or |
| Amorinav. 3 | (Peter.U...@ki.ericsson.se)|
| S-191 44 Sollentuna | Home: +46 8 92 99 01 |
| SWEDEN | Fax: +46 8 35 04 29 |
| -------------------- | Office: +46 8 751 02 15 |
| ND for STACK Sweden | Mobile: +46 70 594 02 15 |
[]--------------------------------------------------------[]
Dave Culp
In article <3402D4...@syntegra.bt.co.uk>, Chris...@syntegra.bt.co.uk
wrote:
> Rec.Kites represents a very small percentage of kite flyers, and half
> the posters are commercial
and:
> Flexifoil make kites in order to make money
and:
> If I do....
>
> 1) Advertise for free (with COM header) on rec.kites MY price for
> SkyTigers (Trade plus 10 ukpounds profit). Posted twice a day :-)
.....snip...snip...
> 9) CJLS Ltd is the sole distributor for SkyTigers in the UK.
> All other traders have boycotted Flexifoil products and as
> I only sell Icky Hi-Tigers. The kite community in the UK
> is deprived of 4ft, 6ft, 8ft, 10ft, 12ft Flexifoils, Low aspect
> and carrington Tigers, Flexifoil buggys, Stranger, Matrix, etc.
> Aircraft, Jason Furness, National ParaKart Association, British
> Buggy Club and Berrow all lose Flexifoil Int. sponsorship.
Etc., etc.
Ok, fellow r.k'ers; Take Chris' post (he's a knowledgeable, dedicated
kite seller), then take Andrew Beattie's post, the one dated 25 Aug 1997
18:22:21 +0100 (likewise a knowledgeable, dedicated kite seller), and
place them side-by-side.
Now, just for the ones amongst us who *don't* sell kite gear, who actually
*buy* kites: Let's limit it to the ones knowledgeable enough (or foolish
enough) to lay out £6-700 at a pop for a kite/buggy set-up. Now, did we
find at least 10 of us? (Perhaps not, according to Chris). Let's take a
hypothetical 10 customers, at any rate.
*NOW TELL ME THIS:* Which kite dealer do *you* think will remain
standing, after the "free market" dust settles? You can guess my vote...
You might also be glimpsing the future of kite retailing...
Bfk
Before anyone suggest a boycott of a kite maker due to price fixing, let's
set the record straight. "Price fixing" runs rampant in the kite industry
like most other forms of business. If you have ever wondered why most
dealers sell a product within a few dollars of each other, you get the picture.
It should be obvious that all dealers do not have the same cost or
overhead so selling a product at a "fixed" or common price does suggest
some form of organized effort to control the street price of a product.
I am not saying this is right or wrong and in some cases it is illegal.
It happens and it is not restricted to kites.
The market place will automatically correct this. When we started in the
kite business, we offered an unheard 20% discount off "list price". Back
in the early 80's nobody sold kites below "suggested retail". In order to
protect their high margins, many kite shops organized an effort to put us
out of business. There was even an round table discussion during a kite
trade association meeting on "dealing with discounters". History should
document that the industry as a whole has migrated to a magical 20% off
list price as a standard pricing method for most high end sport kites.
Kite shops that did not adopt this rate either sell to "tourist" traffic
that does not know better or are out of business.
Today kites are priced using a variety of different methods. Some are
sold at full list price, some are priced at percentage off list and some
are priced at a fixed dollar amount over cost. Manufactures do excercise
some control on how kites are priced. This is accomplished by how they
allocate their products and distribution channels. This is no different
than most other consumer products. Ever wondered why Nintendo is sold at
almost the same exact price at Wal Mart, Toys R Us, Target, Best Buy, etc...?
The bottom line is if you don't like the price, don't buy it and if
everyone else feels the same way, the company will get the message. There
is no need to advocate a boycott. There are several kite makers that are
currently having a hard time pushing their overpriced wares regardless of
any "price fixing". (their name should be very well known to readers of
rec.kites)
The market place will also take care of "kite dealers". There have been
many dealers who have pushed the envelope of pricing and strayed from the
"norm". Those who discount too deeply without providing any service will
soon find that it is no longer worth staying in business. Those who offer
a high level of service will find that they will be able to sell kites
regardless of how they price them.
Experimenting with pricing structures, distribution, and sales methods has
helped this industry grow. BFK and that guy up in Berkley started from
the back of a car. Both of us discounted products when the rest of the
industry said "No Way". Today we are still in business while those who
complained are out of business.
In our case, several manufactures refused to sell us products but we
managed to get their products despite their refusal to sell to us. Today
we are among their biggest customers and they accept the fact that their
products will be discounted.
The market place will always prevail....
Hoy
"van dealer"
"authorized Flexifoil dealer"
"discount kite dealer"
"kitestore webmaster"
"and anything else you may want to call me"
BFK
http://www.kitestore.com - World's Largest Online Kite Catalog
John Tavolacci
>>Flexifoil International Ltd. <in...@flexifoil.co.uk> wrote:
>>>It has recently come to light that there is a spanner in the kite works.
>>>Andrew Beatti (spanner) is pretending to be a kite trader, pushing our and
>
O.K. So Joost had too much tea at tea time and got a little testy.
And, Andrew was selling out of his closet, and got some people upset.
Other people jump to conclusions, start calling people names and do stupid
things like calling for a boycott! How silly a boycott of Flexifoil would
be. Do you think that not buying your next Flexi will really hurt them? The
only people that would get hurt would be the small kite shops that had
nothing to do with this nonsense.
I for one would like to welcome Joost to rec.kites! He is one person that
can really contribute to this newsgroup.
So enough Joost, Flexi bashing!
Welcome Joost!!
John