Ring juggling: pancake throws

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Beinn Muir

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Sep 2, 2004, 12:46:32 PM9/2/04
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I have been working on pancake throws with rings for the past few months and
I have been trying to make the throws perfectly spun and as consistent as
possible. I have found that I can hold onto the ring in many different
finger configurations and all give me a reasonable pancake spin but I was
wondering how others make the throw. Any preferences?

To get the ball rolling, the normal method I find myself using is with the
ring lying on my hand resting on where my knuckles meet the palm. My fingers
are slightly separated and the contact points with the ring feel like they
are my index finger and my ring finger (with maybe a bit of little finger
too). My thumb presses down on top but is tilted so that it is the side of
my thumb that is holding the ring, and it is slightly bent.

So the points I am interested in are:

Are the fingers spread or together?
Are they straight out or curled around the ring?
Where are the contact points with the ring?
How is the thumb positioned? Is it bent?

When a pancake throw goes wrong (when it goes wonky!) I am never sure
exactly why it went wrong... does anyone have any theories on how to problem
solve the throw?

Cheers,
Beinn...


Norbi

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Sep 2, 2004, 2:35:28 PM9/2/04
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I have my fingers straight and spread out, my main contact points are
index and little finger. not sure what my thumb does.
I am also not sure why it wobbles, but i think that contact of more than
2
fingers makes it spin wierd (becuase its not a completely flat surface
across the fingers). Thats my theory anyway. but i have my most solid
pancakes in 4 rings, so i am a bit wierd.

hope thats interesting at all.

norbi
www.norbithejuggler.co.uk

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Mitchos

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Sep 2, 2004, 5:15:42 PM9/2/04
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Norbi wrote:
> Thats my theory anyway. but i have my most solid pancakes in 4 rings, so i
> am a bit wierd.

I wouldn't say thats wierd at all; the rings spin on a horizontal axis,
which means that it is easier to throw them with this spin when throwing
as near to straight up as poss, ie in a 4 fountain its going to be easier
to keep the spin horizontal than in a crossing pattern.

M.

Beinn Muir

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Sep 2, 2004, 5:50:27 PM9/2/04
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> > Thats my theory anyway. but i have my most solid pancakes in 4 rings, so
i
> > am a bit wierd.
>
> I wouldn't say thats wierd at all; the rings spin on a horizontal axis,
> which means that it is easier to throw them with this spin when throwing
> as near to straight up as poss, ie in a 4 fountain its going to be easier
> to keep the spin horizontal than in a crossing pattern.
>

Would this not depend on how you make the crossing throw? If you make the
throw from the right to the left and you point the right hand towards the
left then the axis of rotation would still be horizontal, but it would no
longer be parallel to the vertical plane of the body.

This leads me to an interesting question -- when you throw pancakes do you
keep the spin axis running perfectly left-right, or do you tilt it? I would
say that I tilt it. This means that I make the throw a little like a club
throw.

Beinn...

Finding it difficult to describe the different planes and axes...!


Alan Mackenzie

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Sep 5, 2004, 4:11:45 AM9/5/04
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Beinn Muir <bm...@nospam4me.cam.ac.uk> wrote on Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:46:32
+0100:

> So the points I am interested in are:

[ .... ]

> When a pancake throw goes wrong (when it goes wonky!) I am never sure
> exactly why it went wrong...

Fundamental physics. It can be shown (and is actually shown in
university maths courses) that (almost) every rigid body has three
"principal axes" about which it can rotate: a long, a medium and a
short. Spinning the body about either the long or the short axis is
stable. About the medium axis, it's unstable, decidedly wonky. Try this
out with a cigar box (or a packet of butter).

An exception to this happens when the rigid body has rotational symmetry.
Then you have a short axis and a "plane of medium axes", as a ring has.
(Or it might be a long axis and a plane of medium axes, like a club.)
Rotation about the long/short axis (here the normal ring throw) is
stable. Rotation about a "medium axis in the plane" goes wonky.

> does anyone have any theories on how to problem solve the throw?

As I've just outlined above, it's impossible to throw a pancake cleanly.
It simply can't be done. ;-)

> Cheers,
> Beinn...

--
Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany)
Email: aa...@muuc.dee; to decode, wherever there is a repeated letter
(like "aa"), remove half of them (leaving, say, "a").

Dreamjuggler

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Sep 26, 2004, 6:45:13 AM9/26/04
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Hi Beinn

Have you seen my pancake video? I`m certainly not solid enough with the
throw, but it became much easier for me to learn SOLLID doubles with three
before I tried this trick with 4 (and 5).

Greetings from Switzerland

Reto

www.retothejuggler.ch video section

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