7 cascade or 5-ball mills mess?
Ziyx
reading this group, it seems like most of the 7-ball jugglers here have
record runs of under 40 catches. If these are records, I assume the average
run would be under 20.
I'm at the point where my average 5-ball run is in the 60 catches range, and
my record is about 120 or so. I feel that complete mastery of 5 balls is
not too far away, and I'm wondering how I should invest my time and effort
henceforth. Should I go the normal numbers route, or instead work towards
the holy grail of juggling tricks: the 5-ball mills mess?
Truth be told, I like to impress people with juggling, but I've noticed that
most people can't tell when how many balls I'm juggling. When I juggle 4,
they think it's 3. When I do 5, they think it's 4, etc. And juggling
numbers inevitably leads to the question: Can you do x + 1 or x + 2? (where
"x" is the max number of objects you can juggle) This is annoying to me,
(and, I assume, especially annoying to those 7-ball jugglers who are asked
if they can do 9). It seems that most non-jugglers do not know the effort
that is put into juggling numbers. On the other hand, when I do 3-ball
mills mess or rubensteins's they are always slack-jawed.
Does anyone here know how long it takes to learn 5-ball mills mess? Will it
take a shorter amount of time to learn than 50 catches of the 7 cascade?
Which, in your opinion, would have a higher ratio of reward to hours spent
practicing?
~Ziyx
Martin
Ziyx wrote:
Should I go the normal numbers route, or instead work towards
> the holy grail of juggling tricks: the 5-ball mills mess?
And BTW: Can anybody give practice advices for the 5-ball mills mess?
> Truth be told, I like to impress people with juggling, but I've noticed
that
> most people can't tell when how many balls I'm juggling. When I juggle 4,
> they think it's 3. When I do 5, they think it's 4, etc. And juggling
> numbers inevitably leads to the question: Can you do x + 1 or x + 2?
(where
> "x" is the max number of objects you can juggle) This is annoying to me,
> (and, I assume, especially annoying to those 7-ball jugglers who are asked
> if they can do 9).
Non-jugglers wouldn't ask 7-Ball jugglers if they can do 9, but if they can
do 8, because they have no idea how to juggle (that's why they are all
non-jugglers).
>It seems that most non-jugglers do not know the effort
> that is put into juggling numbers.
Most non-jugglers do not know the effort that is put in any kind of
juggling. If you want to impress non-jugglers you have to show them tricks
a) they saw in circus ("Can you roll a ball over the head while juggling 7
chainsaws") b) that looks tricky (crossed arms, behind the back, over the
head,) c) that are juggled very fast, d) that looks aesthetical.
Martin
Martin is two inches taller than most, and seven inches taller than jani
Gunnar Andersson
On Sun, 18 Feb 2001, Ziyx wrote:
> Does anyone here know how long it takes to learn 5-ball mills
> mess? Will it take a shorter amount of time to learn than 50
> catches of the 7 cascade?
In my club I have seen the 5BMM being qualified barely a couple of
times, but there are several people capable of qualifying 7 balls and
two with PBs close to 100 catches.
Myself I've managed ~40 catches with 7 but have got nowhere with
5BMM. Even 4BMM is harder than the 5-ball cascade for me.
/ Gunnar
Colin E.
>OK, besides self pride, is it really worth it to work on 6 and 7?
> From
>reading this group, it seems like most of the 7-ball jugglers here have
>record runs of under 40 catches. If these are records, I assume the average
>run would be under 20.
Sounds about right.
>I'm at the point where my average 5-ball run is in the 60 catches range, and
>my record is about 120 or so. I feel that complete mastery of 5 balls is
>not too far away, and I'm wondering how I should invest my time and effort
>henceforth. Should I go the normal numbers route, or instead work towards
>the holy grail of juggling tricks: the 5-ball mills mess?
What do you class as complete mastery of 5-balls? IMO 120 catches
makes you a competent 5 ball juggler - but you are far from mastery -
sorry! There are a lot of other tricks that I think a 5 ball master
should be able to do - 5 high pirouettes for example, (my personal
holy grail)
>Truth be told, I like to impress people with juggling,
I only juggle for personal satisfaction. I never try to impress people
... or show off ... honest!
>but I've noticed that
>most people can't tell when how many balls I'm juggling. When I juggle 4,
>they think it's 3. When I do 5, they think it's 4, etc. And juggling
>numbers inevitably leads to the question: Can you do x + 1 or x + 2? (where
>"x" is the max number of objects you can juggle) This is annoying to me,
>(and, I assume, especially annoying to those 7-ball jugglers who are asked
>if they can do 9). It seems that most non-jugglers do not know the effort
>that is put into juggling numbers. On the other hand, when I do 3-ball
>mills mess or rubensteins's they are always slack-jawed.
I think this is something we have all encountered. Don't let it bother
you. If you want to impress the general public learn how to throw a
diabolo really high in the air.
>Does anyone here know how long it takes to learn 5-ball mills mess?
Too long
>Will it
>take a shorter amount of time to learn than 50 catches of the 7 cascade?
maybe .. maybe not.
>Which, in your opinion, would have a higher ratio of reward to hours spent
>practicing?
Considering that you are going to have to spend a hell of a lot of
time practicing to nail either of these tricks, I would suggest going
fo the one whichever is more enjoyable to practice!
>~Ziyx
>
regards,
Colin E.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Virtual Juggler:
http://www.fishsoft.co.uk/
Eric Bagai
"Martin" <Martin....@uni-duesseldorf.de> wrote:>
> Ziyx wrote:
> > . . . When I juggle 4,
> > they think it's 3. When I do 5, they think it's 4, etc. And
juggling
> > numbers inevitably leads to the question: Can you do x + 1 or x +
2?
> > (where
> > "x" is the max number of objects you can juggle) This is annoying
to me,
> > (and, I assume, especially annoying to those 7-ball jugglers who
are asked
> > if they can do 9).
>
> Non-jugglers wouldn't ask 7-Ball jugglers if they can do 9, but if
they can
> do 8, because they have no idea how to juggle (that's why they are
all
> non-jugglers).
This made me think of a possible response to such inquiries from
non-jugglers:
"How many is that?"
"Five."
"Can you do six?"
"No, I haven't paid for that many yet."
"What do you mean?'
"Well, I've only paid the dues for 4-, and 5-ball juggling.
Three-ball juggling is free, of course, which is why almost everybody
does it. I'm saving up to pay for 6-ball juggling, but it's a lot of
money and I'd rather have a car right now.
"You're kidding, right? You have to pay to juggle more balls?"
"That's right. It's a guild thing, like with magicians. To do a
certain number of balls or a really flashy trick you have to send
money to the IJA, and they send you back instructions and a license
saying you can't give the instructions to anyone else, just like
software."
"Well, could you, like, show me the trick for four?"
"I can _show_ you four, but I can't tell you the trick. And juggling
piracy is not a good idea. They send mimes after you. The IJA
doesn't screw around."
"So what's the address of this IJA?"
"That costs $5.00. I'm sorry, but I have to give most of it to them
anyway. Juggling isn't easy, you know?"
=Eric
(who will probably never do this, but thoroughly enjoys the idea of
it)
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
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Helmut Schulz
> OK, besides self pride, is it really worth it to work on 6 and 7? From
> reading this group, it seems like most of the 7-ball jugglers here have
> record runs of under 40 catches. If these are records, I assume the average
> run would be under 20.
>
> I'm at the point where my average 5-ball run is in the 60 catches range, and
> my record is about 120 or so. I feel that complete mastery of 5 balls is
> not too far away, and I'm wondering how I should invest my time and effort
> henceforth. Should I go the normal numbers route, or instead work towards
> the holy grail of juggling tricks: the 5-ball mills mess?
Ha!!!
5-ball mills mess the holy grail of juggling tricks???
I guessed that was 5-balls continuous back crosses, or, even better,
5-balls continuous front-to-back shoulder throws (I did never see that
one, btw., but believe it should be doable).
For my case, I had a strange idea about the relation of juggling n items
and doing n-2 continous back crosses. This is somehow coupled in my
mind. So, if I really go for 7, I expect to be at least able to qualify the
5-balls continuous back crosses pattern ...
In general, I believe it's not too bad to be proficient at a 'lower' numbers
level, before starting out for the next one (ok, that doesn't keep me from
fiddling
around with 6 balls and rings ;)
My hint: go for the 5-balls reverse cascade, before aiming for 7. It's nice to
watch as well, and it helps your 5-ball control. It's also surely an
easier-to-master
pattern than the Mills Mess, and as reverse cascade throws are part of MM,
maybe
something like a precondition (I only guess here - I can't do 5b MM).
Actually, there are lots and lots of things you could try first, and each of
those will help
you later, when you actually begin your efforts with 6 or 7.
Just do smaller steps - this usually is more pleasant, because it's easier to
succeed for
each of those.
In fact, you're probably not yet ready to go for the 'Holy grail' of juggling
(as I'm not),
whatever that may be (Gatto probably knows) ...
Fun and Happy Juggling!
Helmut aka greldinard
Greg Phillips
> 5-ball mills mess the holy grail of juggling tricks???
> I guessed that was 5-balls continuous back crosses, or, even better,
> 5-balls continuous front-to-back shoulder throws (I did never see that
> one, btw., but believe it should be doable).
Unless I was hallucinating, Steve Holditch was doing this at last year's
Waterloo fest. It's really pretty. (Five weeks and counting to this
year's fest.)
> In fact, you're probably not yet ready to go for the 'Holy grail' of juggling
> (as I'm not),
> whatever that may be (Gatto probably knows) ...
The gods keep moving the grail. You master seven club backcrosses with a
head bounce, walk into the sacred cave, and find that the grail now
lives behind the fourteen ring flash.
Greg
Ewan
> times, but there are several people capable of qualifying 7 balls and
> two with PBs close to 100 catches.
I'm certain it's because people don't pracice the 5BMM as much as 7. If you
did as much as you do for 7 you'd probably be able to do it. I recon it's
easier to learn than 7 but no-one does because you don't see it done much. 7
is always on visual offer at conventions because most people do it. Hence
people start learning that and find themselves on the numbers trail.
Corrections from someone who can do both patterns are appreciated of course,
as I'm still learning the 5BMM (and 7 for that matter). Anyway, the
suggestion still stands that it's because people practice 7 more that it is
easier and you see faster(fast results with 7 - now that would be nice..)
results..
I'm a 7-ish ball juggler but I gave up on 5BMM after getting to one
revolution in about three weeks of practice time. I'm going back to it
though, as after reading this I tried to put together a set of instructions
and failed, it's too complex to describe in words - at the mo. So I'm going
to learn it and then figure out how I did it and then explain it here..
Do you think that r.j will still be here in ten years?
:)
--
Ignor me please I crave attention - and white chocolate.
Ewano
--
<The contents of this post in no way reflect the opinions of the author>
Chris Sutton
do admit that non-jugglers like harder tricks .like mills mess, but that
isn't
why I juggle.
I think that the average juggler does not have the patience to practice
serious numbers for thousands of hours with a small reward of qualifying 9
or
flashing 10..etc. That is why the majority of jugglers are probably not
numbers jugglers. I do not juggle to show off, although that would be
cool...
I am not even sure I pursue numbers for self pride. I know that there are
not
many serious numbers jugglers out there today, and I would like to
contribute
to that group. I plan to go all the way assuming that I will have the
talent,
time, and most importantly, the motivation.
-Chris Sutton
>===== Original Message From "Ziyx" <ms...@stanford.edu> =====
>OK, besides self pride, is it really worth it to work on 6 and 7? From
>reading this group, it seems like most of the 7-ball jugglers here have
>record runs of under 40 catches. If these are records, I assume the average
>run would be under 20.
>
>I'm at the point where my average 5-ball run is in the 60 catches range, and
>my record is about 120 or so. I feel that complete mastery of 5 balls is
>not too far away, and I'm wondering how I should invest my time and effort
>henceforth. Should I go the normal numbers route, or instead work towards
>the holy grail of juggling tricks: the 5-ball mills mess?
>
>Truth be told, I like to impress people with juggling, but I've noticed that
>most people can't tell when how many balls I'm juggling. When I juggle 4,
>they think it's 3. When I do 5, they think it's 4, etc. And juggling
>numbers inevitably leads to the question: Can you do x + 1 or x + 2? (where
>"x" is the max number of objects you can juggle) This is annoying to me,
>(and, I assume, especially annoying to those 7-ball jugglers who are asked
>if they can do 9). It seems that most non-jugglers do not know the effort
>that is put into juggling numbers. On the other hand, when I do 3-ball
>mills mess or rubensteins's they are always slack-jawed.
>
>Does anyone here know how long it takes to learn 5-ball mills mess? Will it
>take a shorter amount of time to learn than 50 catches of the 7 cascade?
>
>Which, in your opinion, would have a higher ratio of reward to hours spent
>practicing?
>
>~Ziyx
>
Helmut Schulz
> Helmut Schulz wrote:
> > 5-ball mills mess the holy grail of juggling tricks???
> > I guessed that was 5-balls continuous back crosses, or, even better,
> > 5-balls continuous front-to-back shoulder throws (I did never see that
> > one, btw., but believe it should be doable).
>
> Unless I was hallucinating, Steve Holditch was doing this at last year's
> Waterloo fest. It's really pretty. (Five weeks and counting to this
> year's fest.)
I knew it was possible!
Anyone out there who does it with 7? ;)
> > In fact, you're probably not yet ready to go for the 'Holy grail' of juggling
> > (as I'm not),
> > whatever that may be (Gatto probably knows) ...
>
> The gods keep moving the grail. You master seven club backcrosses with a
> head bounce, walk into the sacred cave, and find that the grail now
> lives behind the fourteen ring flash.
>
> Greg
Oh, again, to be honest, I find 7 clubs back crosses much more impressive
than, say 15 rings flashed (of course, I did never see that one, but if I try
to visualize ...), even without the head bounce; ok, that's maybe
very specific to me ...
Happy Juggling,
Helmut
Ewan
news:3A914960...@thalion-graphics.de...
> Anyone out there who does it with 7? ;)
I'm not certain, but I think that Toby Walker can get it running(I've seen
him doing a very smooth 5 club mills for atleast a minute) and I'm pretty
sure that Ben Beaver can get a decent run of 7 ball mils.(Or is it up to 9
ball mills now Ben?)
Ewan
Ewan
> talent, time, and most importantly, the motivation.
There was i guy I knew for a year during my time at Uni. He came to the club
with a fairly decent 3 ball cascade with one or two tricks. He started to
learn at a phenominal rate and in about two months had learned an
unbelievable amount. including 4BMM and five ball cascade (don't think he
was limited to balls, he could club pass and was a mean devilsticker I
think). He then started on 7 balls. 6 months after he arrived at the club he
had 7 cracked (like 100+ catches most of the time in a low ceilinged room
11ft). Anyway, I asked him how he did this and he said he practiced for 5
hours a day - every day. He stopped juggling after 9 months and I have not
heard of or seen him since. He suffered a burnout I later found out. He had
gotten so far - so fast that he just wasn't interested anymore. I wonder if
I could find him now and get in touch with him. I remember he could eat like
three men and drink like four...
Only faster..
Will, you out there???
Henry Segerman
: Helmut Schulz <hel...@thalion-graphics.de> wrote in message
: news:3A914960...@thalion-graphics.de...
:> Anyone out there who does it with 7? ;)
: him doing a very smooth 5 club mills for atleast a minute) and I'm pretty
: sure that Ben Beaver can get a decent run of 7 ball mils.(Or is it up to 9
: ball mills now Ben?)
I dont think Ben has it solid. You can definitely see the pattern when he
tries it though. Bursts of 3 balls going alternately up each side.
--
,-. Henry Segerman
uewJa6aS hJuaH `-'
Scott
"Eric Bagai" <smi...@world.net> wrote in message
news:3a910...@goliath.newsfeeds.com...
stephen...@spammenot.edu
wrote:
>> Non-jugglers wouldn't ask 7-Ball jugglers if they can do 9, but if
>>they can do 8, because they have no idea how to juggle (that's
>>why they are all non-jugglers).
Non-jugglers can't tell how many you are doing, and my experience
is that they always guess high. I don' t know how many times I've
heard someone tell me about "this guy I saw" who was juggling
"8 or 9". In some cases, it was something on TV I saw, so
I *know* what he did - but that doesn't stop their imagination.
>This made me think of a possible response to such inquiries from
>non-jugglers:
Eric, I love this answer. I think you should use it.
--
Stephen Whitis
Email replies should go to...
scw120198 (at) whitis.com
Texas Juggling information available at www.whitis.com.
INNUENDO russ
tricks and moves that should be learnt are those that others like to watch. i
mean 5bmm is lovely but then again it's just 5 balls to the layman, where as 7
balls is well 7 balls. what more can u say?
russ
Thomas Löfqvist
spent
> practicing?
>
> ~Ziyx
>
>
I've never even tried 5BMM myslef but I suspect that unless you've got it
really smooth and liquid, you might get "Wow, 5 balls!" from non-jugglers.
I wanna cruise 7 but not for showing off. BTW, it seems I won't have to; all
I have to do is say "7 balls" (in an evasive manner because I'm not so good
at it yet) and people look at me like I've killed a dragon.
Thomas Löfqvist
Helmut Schulz
Oh, you misunderstood me. I meant 7b continuous front-back shoulder
throws (rh throws over left shoulder and vice versa, all in front-to-back
direction - are that reverse back crosses?), not 7b Mills ;)
I don't exactly know why people are that jinxed by MM ...
Helmut
Charles O Donoghue
>did as much as you do for 7 you'd probably be able to do it. I recon it's
>easier to learn than 7 but no-one does because you don't see it done much. 7
>is always on visual offer at conventions because most people do it. Hence
>people start learning that and find themselves on the numbers trail.
>
balls.
Is 5BMM easier than 7? I am not so sure. They both require a fair amount
of practice. Perhaps they are of similar difficulty.
Tips for 5BMM
Height is important and a very delicate trade off. Too low and the
pattern is fast and quickly collapses but the accuracy need not be
great.
Raise the pattern and the throws must be spot on (which is especially
tricky with the underhand throws) but it does slow the pattern.
This is the usual juggling trade off but seems accentuated by the Mess
pattern probably by the time the balls linger in the carries.
Timing is important. The balls must be evenly spaced at the start to
prevent an impossibly fast move later on. The heights of the throws must
be equal. This is tricky as there are 6 slightly different throws 3 from
the right and 3 from the left both over and underhand. I find the
underhand throws the problem; the throwing arc is short and it is
difficult to get the accuracy and especially the height.
When running smoothly the pattern is very similar to a reverse cascade 5
and this is probably the best practice pattern.
Often people say to throw them all into the middle but I find it works
best with two separate peaks as in a reverse cascade 5.
Good Luck.
--
Charles
JuggleArtist
them work more on tricks. Like you said, people don't care about how many you
can do, there more impressed by how much you can do with that particular
number.
But if, like me, you like juggling for your self, I'd say just do what ever
brings you the most fulfillment (for me that's numbers).
Jon.
JuggleArtist(at)juno(dot)com
stephen...@spammenot.edu
wrote:
You can't be serious. With only three balls, MM gets a heck of a
response. And you don't think it'll be impressive with five?
juggler
for some people, like Ewan's example, juggling isn't a challenge. I guess
once
he realized that it was just too easy he became uninterested.
-Scott
--
Check out my juggling home page: http://www.juggling.org/~scott.seltzer/
ICQ Number 7645629
>===== Original Message From "Ewan" <er.i.th...@no.spam.for.me.matey>
=====
Colin E.
I think the majority of us here juggle for the challenge. But I don't
believe this guy realized it was all too easy so gave up the
challenge. We all reach a point where progress becomes more difficult
- most people find progress becomes quite slow after they start
learning five balls. This guy just had a different level due to his
natural abilities - but sure enough his progress would have started
slowing down at some point and it would have become more challenging.
Maybe he stopped when it was no longer easy and it became challenging.
Regards,
Colin E.
(Who finds juggling very challenging!)
On Tue, 20 Feb 2001 01:50:56 -0500, juggler
<juggle...@MailAndNews.com> wrote:
>One of the main reasons that I enjoy juggling is that it is a challenge. But
>for some people, like Ewan's example, juggling isn't a challenge. I guess
>once
>he realized that it was just too easy he became uninterested.
>
>-Scott
>
>--
>Check out my juggling home page: http://www.juggling.org/~scott.seltzer/
>ICQ Number 7645629
>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Virtual Juggler:
http://www.fishsoft.co.uk/
Colin E.
>really smooth and liquid, you might get "Wow, 5 balls!" from non-jugglers.
Yuo should giove 5BMM a go. You will very quickly find that the only
way to do is 'smooth and liquid' or you just get collisions all over
the place. It is not a very forgiving pattern!
>I wanna cruise 7 but not for showing off. BTW, it seems I won't have to; all
>I have to do is say "7 balls" (in an evasive manner because I'm not so good
>at it yet) and people look at me like I've killed a dragon.
Really?! Thats one heck of a response. Try muttering '5 ball mills
mess' under your breath and see what reaction you get!
>
>Thomas Löfqvist
Regards,
Colin E.
Rob Stone
<994B76BC295327CA.40EE0A2C...@lp.airnews.net>,
stephen...@spamMeNot.edu wrote:
>On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 03:23:42 -0800, "Eric Bagai" <smi...@world.net>
>wrote:
>
snip
>>Non-jugglers can't tell how many you are doing, and my experience
>is that they always guess high. I don' t know how many times I've
>heard someone tell me about "this guy I saw" who was juggling
>"8 or 9". In some cases, it was something on TV I saw, so
>I *know* what he did - but that doesn't stop their imagination.
>
>>This made me think of a possible response to such inquiries from
>>non-jugglers:
>
>Eric, I love this answer. I think you should use it.
i think Eric should licence it, funniest thing ive read for ages
-- Rob.
.........................................................................
Rob Stone, Psychology, University of York, York, YO10 5DD. 01904 433161
remove NOSPAM to mail me
.......................................................................
Thomas Löfqvist
> way to do is 'smooth and liquid' or you just get collisions all over
> the place. It is not a very forgiving pattern!
Two tricks I want to get solid first are 4BMM and 5B reverse cascade.
>
> >I wanna cruise 7 but not for showing off. BTW, it seems I won't have to;
all
> >I have to do is say "7 balls" (in an evasive manner because I'm not so
good
> >at it yet) and people look at me like I've killed a dragon.
>
> Really?! Thats one heck of a response. Try muttering '5 ball mills
> mess' under your breath and see what reaction you get!
>
That's the response I get from non-jugglers. They usually have no idea what
MM is and little do they understand the difference between getting a few
cycles and being solid with 7. I tell them I have a long long way to go, so
they settle for "Ok he got 5 down so at least he's tamed a lion."
Thomas Löfqvist, on the trail to the land of dragons and other wonders
Todd Strong
on Date: Mon, Feb 19, 2001 3:23 AM
in Message-id: <3a910...@goliath.newsfeeds.com> wrote:
<<funny responses snipped>>
Isn't this what Dave Finnigan has been doing with the Certification
Requirements in "The Complete Juggler"?
I've always considered his program of sending him three dollars to receive a
pin for a certain skill set as brilliant. "Learn a new trick? Send me money."
is a wonderful slogan.
> They send mimes after you.
and you never hear them coming.
Todd Strong
sig. file is already preparing a massive campaign to ask jugglers to "send me
money."
Alan Morgan
Todd Strong <tast...@aol.comnospam> wrote:
>"Eric Bagai" smi...@world.net
>on Date: Mon, Feb 19, 2001 3:23 AM
>in Message-id: <3a910...@goliath.newsfeeds.com> wrote:
>
><<funny responses snipped>>
>
>Isn't this what Dave Finnigan has been doing with the Certification
>Requirements in "The Complete Juggler"?
>
>I've always considered his program of sending him three dollars to receive a
>pin for a certain skill set as brilliant. "Learn a new trick? Send me money."
>is a wonderful slogan.
I've qualified 9 balls and I think I'm still missing what I need to get the
three ball pin. I find this incredibly funny.
>> They send mimes after you.
>
>and you never hear them coming.
*snort*
Oh God, make it stop.
Alan
Cheesy Juggler
russ wrote:
>i have a question... as an aspiring pro juggler i believe that the kind of
>tricks and moves that should be learnt are those that others like to watch. i
>mean 5bmm is lovely but then again it's just 5 balls to the layman, where as 7
>balls is well 7 balls. what more can u say?
stephen wrote:
>You can't be serious. With only three balls, MM gets a heck of a
>response. And you don't think it'll be impressive with five?
russ replys:
well yeah 5bmm would look great, but what i was trying to say is that from an
audiences point of view 5 balls (what ever fancy pattern u can do with them) is
easier than 7, which in turn is easier than 9 etc etc. it's a simple logic but
then if an audience understood the finer points of juggling they wouldn't be
impressed at all.
russ
Michael Ferguson
(Alan Morgan) wrote:
>In article <20010220110206...@ng-ch1.aol.com>,
>Todd Strong <tast...@aol.comnospam> wrote:
>>"Eric Bagai" smi...@world.net
>>on Date: Mon, Feb 19, 2001 3:23 AM
>>in Message-id: <3a910...@goliath.newsfeeds.com> wrote:
>>
>><<funny responses snipped>>
>>
>>Isn't this what Dave Finnigan has been doing with the Certification
>>Requirements in "The Complete Juggler"?
>>
>>I've always considered his program of sending him three dollars to receive a
>>pin for a certain skill set as brilliant. "Learn a new trick? Send me money."
>>is a wonderful slogan.
>
>I've qualified 9 balls and I think I'm still missing what I need to get the
>three ball pin. I find this incredibly funny.
I bought my 5-club pin from Butterfingers a few years ago. They had a
whole box of Jugglebug pins that they were trying to unload. The thing
only cost me £2. I didn't even have to get my clubs out of my prop bag
or show anybody anything, all I had to do was hand over the two £1
coins. Now that's what I call 'certification'!
--
Michael Ferguson (a.k.a. Fergie),
A 5-club Juggler with the pin to prove it
Scott
Scott
5, and 7 ball cascades and 4 and 6 ball fountains would be darn short. And
that a routine of all the easy tricks would be, well, routine.
"INNUENDO russ" <innuen...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010219152158...@ng-mg1.aol.com...
Cheesy Juggler
the original q was what was best to learn 5bmm or 7 ball cascade?
can thinking from an audiences point of view they would rather see more objects
to finish as they don't know that 5bmm is difficult, they just see it as 5
balls. personnaly i love 3 ball tricks (i have over 100 to my name) and i'm
starting work on 4 ball patterns as well as the odd 5 ball pattern and 7
balls... i'm also working on 5 clubs!
russ
Chris Dunlop
news:994B76BC295327CA.40EE0A2C...@lp.airnews.net...
> Non-jugglers can't tell how many you are doing, and my experience
> is that they always guess high. I don' t know how many times I've
> heard someone tell me about "this guy I saw" who was juggling
> "8 or 9". In some cases, it was something on TV I saw, so
> I *know* what he did - but that doesn't stop their imagination.
Absolutely. A good friend of mine who plays piano on cruise ships swears
that the juggling duo on one of the ships pass 14 clubs. And under a 9 foot
ceiling. :-)
--
Chris Dunlop
MIS, ITCS, UEA, Norwich.
c.du...@uea.ac.uk
Mark Thomas
than a physical one. Assuming you can do 4BMM in a 'smooth and liquid'
style, then 5BMM is just the same with another ball. Obviously it's a lot
harder, but If you convince yourself that it's the 'holy grail' of juggling,
then you may struggle a bit, and give up, which would be a shame.
On the contrary, if you think of it as 4BMM but a bit higher and faster, you
should be able to cope with the pattern (obviously you'd need to do much
practice). I found that soon after trying this trick, I'd qualified it. I
haven't worked that much on it, and I'm up to about 20 catches.
But, I've spent possibly 100's of hours working on 7, yet I'm only at about
30 or so catches. I think 5BMM is probably the easier of the two tricks, as
learning 7 requires you to have additional strength (and a higher ceiling).
Despite this, if I had a choice of one or the other, I'd go for the 7 ball
cascade, as although the public may not appreciate it for what it is, It
feels great to run 7 balls. I'm not saying 5BMM isn't great, just 7 is
better.
Anyhow, my advice is work on both evenly, and let us know which one you
learn fastest.
Later,
Mark
јЄКА`АКЄј,ИИ,јЄКА`АКЄј,ИИ,јЄКА`АКЄј
juggl...@hotmail.com
http://www.diabolonet.co.uk/
КЄј,ИИ,јЄКА`АКЄј,ИИ,јЄКА`АКЄј,ИИ,јЄК
Alan Morgan
Yup. A friend of mine told me that they saw a great juggler in Vegas who
did some ludicrous number of objects. Fortunatly they remembered where
they had seen him and I realized that it was Anthony Gatto and proceeded to
describe his act in minute detail. Faced with this onslaught they admitted
that they must have been mistaken.
That is the only way I've found to win these arguments.
Alan
Dash
hi, I'm about the same stage you are with 5, and have been for far too
long!! About 2 months ago when I had my 5 ball runs at an average of 50-60,
I thought great! I'm nearly there with 5 balls! But since then I have kept
up the practise, and my average is now only up to 60-70. I need to figure
out what goes wrong around those numbers. I thought that I would soon be
able to get runs as long as I liked. Alas - it hasn't need the way
"Colin E." <webm...@fishsoft.co.uk.NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:3a8b22f3...@nntp.leeds.ac.uk...
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:46:32 -0800, "Ziyx" <ms...@stanford.edu> wrote:
> >OK, besides self pride, is it really worth it to work on 6 and 7?
> Yes.
>
> > From
> >reading this group, it seems like most of the 7-ball jugglers here have
> >record runs of under 40 catches. If these are records, I assume the
average
> >run would be under 20.
> Sounds about right.
>
> >I'm at the point where my average 5-ball run is in the 60 catches range,
and
> >my record is about 120 or so. I feel that complete mastery of 5 balls is
> >not too far away, and I'm wondering how I should invest my time and
effort
> >henceforth. Should I go the normal numbers route, or instead work
towards
> >the holy grail of juggling tricks: the 5-ball mills mess?
>
> What do you class as complete mastery of 5-balls? IMO 120 catches
> makes you a competent 5 ball juggler - but you are far from mastery -
> sorry! There are a lot of other tricks that I think a 5 ball master
> should be able to do - 5 high pirouettes for example, (my personal
> holy grail)
>
> >Truth be told, I like to impress people with juggling,
> I only juggle for personal satisfaction. I never try to impress people
> ... or show off ... honest!
>
> >but I've noticed that
> >most people can't tell when how many balls I'm juggling. When I juggle
4,
> >they think it's 3. When I do 5, they think it's 4, etc. And juggling
> >numbers inevitably leads to the question: Can you do x + 1 or x + 2?
(where
> >"x" is the max number of objects you can juggle) This is annoying to me,
> >(and, I assume, especially annoying to those 7-ball jugglers who are
asked
> >if they can do 9). It seems that most non-jugglers do not know the
effort
> >that is put into juggling numbers. On the other hand, when I do 3-ball
> >mills mess or rubensteins's they are always slack-jawed.
> I think this is something we have all encountered. Don't let it bother
> you. If you want to impress the general public learn how to throw a
> diabolo really high in the air.
>
> >Does anyone here know how long it takes to learn 5-ball mills mess?
> Too long
>
> >Will it
> >take a shorter amount of time to learn than 50 catches of the 7 cascade?
> maybe .. maybe not.
>
> >Which, in your opinion, would have a higher ratio of reward to hours
spent
> >practicing?
> Considering that you are going to have to spend a hell of a lot of
> time practicing to nail either of these tricks, I would suggest going
> fo the one whichever is more enjoyable to practice!
>
> >~Ziyx
> >
>
> regards,
Ola Löfberg
> than a physical one. Assuming you can do 4BMM in a 'smooth and liquid'
> style, then 5BMM is just the same with another ball. Obviously it's a lot
> harder, but If you convince yourself that it's the 'holy grail' of juggling,
/* Alot of good stuff I agree on, snipped out... */
> Anyhow, my advice is work on both evenly, and let us know which one you
> learn fastest.
I kinda have a little rule of thumb: You put in another ball, you get a
harder trick. Surely this rule may not be really useful on higher numbers,
can it be that 6/7 balls is the point where that rule stops to operate?
Even though the difficulty-level-difference between a hard 5b pattern
like MM and 7b casc. is smaller, 5bmm simply _have_ to be easier. I'm not
even sure it's harder than 6b. Maybe.
But 6bMM surely is harder than 7 casc., or? Anyone?
I worked 7 casc. for maybe 5 times longer than 5bmm and got almost same
PB's on'em both (53-44).
Psycological barries:
I think a lot of jugglers have read C.Dancey's Encyclopaedia that makes
the legend (the scary, holy grail) even stronger. But his description:
"Looks like Five balls run through a blender", isn't far from the truth
however.
I agree with "Ken the juggler": If you got a little 4bMM skill, try the 5.
(by the way, recently tried MM 5551 with four, got a couple of cycles,
maybe a good practice for 5bmm?)
/ Ola Löfberg
Eric Bagai
"Rob Stone" <r...@NOSPAM.psych.york.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> >Eric, I love this answer. I think you should use it.
>
> i think Eric should licence it, funniest thing ive read for ages
Hell, why not. Okay, what I said is hereby copyright (c) 2001 by Eric
Bagai, me, and all rights throughout the known and unknown universe
are reserved for my exclusive use, so there. Without relinquishing
any of these claimed rights, I hereby grant unlimited use of the
aforementioned line of bullshit to anyone who thinks they can get away
with it on any appropriate occasion, in return for a beer when you see
me.
May it become wildly popular and supply me with new friends and good
beer forever. Second one's on me.
=Eric
Ewan
> I'm nearly there with 5 balls! But since then I have kept
> up the practise, and my average is now only up to 60-70. I need to figure
> out what goes wrong around those numbers. I thought that I would soon be
> able to get runs as long as I liked. Alas - it hasn't need the way
You need to remember to breathe steadily and also you need to build your
overall upper body strength and stamina. I seem to remember that if you use
heavy balls for this you are likely to get tendon injuries, but if you
practice with weighted straps on your arms you don't get the shock strain of
catching a heavy ball..
Mind you, I'm just a fat bastard, you don't want to listen to me...
Ewano..
Rob Stone
<er.i.th...@no.spam.for.me.matey> wrote:
snip
>Mind you, I'm just a fat bastard, you don't want to listen to me...
two out of two correct.
>Ewano..
Ro Nagey
getting together and passing clubs. I'm outside of Hilo, up the Hamakua
Coast. Hilo or Waimea would be best...though I'd welcome an excuse to go
to Kona.
Mahalo nui loa,
Ro