Juggling and ADHD
Amanda Dalton
and students with post traumatic stress disorder. I taught them juggling
and they took to it like filings to a magnet. Does any one know of any
scientific, behavioral studies on juggling and ADHD kids?
Your Humble Servant,
Mandy
Julian Pittman
jupi...@vt.edu
Jay
Amanda Dalton wrote in message <37551F0A...@radix.net>...
Amanda Dalton
Mandy
MJMSONGS
reading your work. Please let me know if this can somehow happen...
Thanks!
Mark
mjms...@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/mjmsongs/index.htm
o
o
o o ==================================
O All .sigs are busy...One will be with you shortly.
\ / ===================================
#
/ )
Alan Mackenzie
> I have recently had a terrifically successful class for ADHD students
> and students with post traumatic stress disorder.
> Mandy
-- Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany)
Email: ayes...@emmyousee.deeeee; to decode, replace "aye" by 'a', "see"
by 'c', etc.
Jake Cooper
>What is ADHD? (Alan's dictionary hasn't definition!)
Alan-
It's Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder. The name describes the
disorder pretty thoroughly...
Jake Cooper
PS- I think I see a new competitor in Acrophobia...
Luca Vanin
to know something more about this theme. How can I do?
Thank You.
Luca
Julian Pittman ha scritto nel messaggio <7j3p0u$8cp$1...@solaris.cc.vt.edu>...
>I did a thesis on Juggling and ADHD .
>jupi...@vt.edu
>Jay
>
>
>Amanda Dalton wrote in message <37551F0A...@radix.net>...
>>I have recently had a terrifically successful class for ADHD students
Lorenzo Baronchelli
did you tought exactly? Which props did you use? What was the age of the
students?
Thanks in advance.
Bye.
Lorenzo Baronchelli
Amanda Dalton ha scritto nel messaggio <37551F0A...@radix.net>...
Amanda Dalton
Lorenzo Baronchelli wrote:
> Could you give us more information about the program of your classes. What
> did you tought exactly? Which props did you use? What was the age of the
> students?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Bye.
>
> Lorenzo Baronchelli
Ok, this isn't scientific, but this might be helpful. If anyone out there has
something more scientific on the subject, I'd appreciate hearing about it.
Also, I'd like to work with anyone who'd like to build some double blind
experiments or conduct studies of juglling and ADHD kids.
The class:
I taught a weekly 45 minute class in juggling for 7 weeks. I came in at the
request of a Producer/Director friend who received a grant to teach these
kids how to put on a variety show (songs, dance, short sketches, etc.) This
project was formed at a special school in my area which serves children, ages
13-18, with such severe behavior problems that they must be removed from the
traditional school system. Most of these children have been traumatized early
in life and their behavior is due to the effects of the trauma. Many have
"recently" diagnosed ADHD (ADHD which remained undiagnosed due to lack of
resources or family breakdown.) As a result, they do not receive the same
opportunities in the performing arts that others receive. My friend was
having a tremendous amount of trouble reaching the kids. She asked me to try
juggling with them to see if it would work for them. We arranged one session
and the success of it led to the additional sessions.
the class:
I gave a short talk where I outlined my expectations for appropriate behavior
with the props. (2 minutes) I clearly demonstrated that I expected the bean
bags to be thrown "up", not "at" others. Sticks for spinning plates were not
to be pointed at others. I also mentioned to the students that I knew exactly
how many items I had and would be counting them afterward. (This was to
prevent the sticky fingers thing that happens with these kids.)
I then took five minutes to show off and demontrate each object and the
correct way to use it. I had two teachers helping me with a group of
sixteen. They used any discipline when necessary. I was freed to simply
teach the class. The only time they looked to me for the discipline cue was
when I felt a prop was not being used appropriately (i.e. being thrown at
someone.) The children who did act out would be removed for a time out. (I
had only three removed during the seven weeks. This was unheared of at the
school.)
I taught them to use the following props right from day one: bean bags, devil
sticks, diabolo, clubs (for balancing at first, and then juggling), scarves,
and spinning plates.
Only a few of the girls took to the scarves. Most went straight to the
diabolo, spinning plates, and beanbags. One child took to the devil sticks.
Rather than teach everyone everything, I demonstrated the props and then let
them choose the ones that interested them. The teachers were a little nervous
about this approach, as they thought it might be too chaotic. ("Structure"
is the special ed mantra.) I explained that trying to teach them as a group
might be an uphill battle. Turned out that my instinct seemed right. Each
child experimented until he/she found an object that pleased. Four kids, two
of them the most problematic in the group, were juggling three balls in the
first session. The teachers were stunned. There were no discipline problems
in the first class. They asked me to return. By my return in the second
class I introduced the kids to rolla bolla, and all except three could perform
a three ball cascade. By the last class four of the kids became somewhat
proficient at the diabolo, and two kids learned to juggle five balls (which I
am struggling with to this day.)
The teachers theorized that the object oriented activity kept the children
focused on something else other than the others in the class and prevented
totally explosive interractions. The teachers claim that reading improved
with the group, but I have no way of knowing that for sure. All I know is
that I'm hooked on the possibilities. Any help and camments are most welcome.
Mandy
Amanda Dalton
Your humble servant,
Mandy
MJMSONGS
we're only able to attend Fri & Sat of the convention...
Very interesting post on the subject, BTW...
Thanks, O Aibohphobia is the fear of palindromes.
\ / ============================
#
/ )
KudzuRayS
hyperactive kids.
Once on a Boy Scout outing featuring events planned by a central committee, I
found myself with a bored group of kids and hours of free time. Most of the
kids weren't in my troop and so not strictly under my control (...as if the
kids in my Troop are all that controllable...). There were some dangerous
areas like a fast, rain-swollen stream nearby that was way too attractive to
the boys. .
I took out my prop bag and threw out some diabolos, flower sticks, and bean
bags and within minutes I had attracted everyone away from the stream and had
dozens of kids wanting to learn to juggle. After an hour I sat down to watch
the activities - there were lines formed to try the diabolos and flower sticks
and about 15 - 20 kids trying to juggle bean bags. A couple of kids even
improvised diabolo handsticks so they could pass diabolos back and forth.
Someone came up with some Frisbees that absorbed the rest of the group. The
juggling props and the Frisbees kept everone safely occupied for a couple of
hours.
After that I have hauled my prop bag around everywhere the Troop goes and
whenever we have free time I dump it out. I keep a big set of cheap juggling
props - mostly weighted tennis balls - that I don't mind getting dirty and
wouldn't care if they turn up missing. But I don't believe I've lost a single
prop after several years.
Now to the subject. Some of the kids in my troop are ADHD. Seriously so. A
couple you could diagnose within 5 minutes of meeting them. Some of the
Ritalin prescriptions their parents give me for weekend campouts are elephant
tranquilizer strength. I don't like dosing kids on campouts so if the parents
don't insist I don't medicate. I've found they do well on activities like
long hikes or bike rides but, not surprising, it's hard to hold their
attention on things like knot tying and compass reading. During free time
they're most likely to get into trouble. But the ADHD's are the first to come
running when I open the prop bag and the last to return the props.
As much as I hate to generalize, I've found that the ADHD boys have been
attracted to juggling like moths to a flame. It's a trend that's been too
consistent to ignore. I haven't had any that were particularly talented (...or
maybe it's the teacher's fault...) but, without exception, they're
enthusiastic and they put in the time to learn. It's been obvious enough that
other adult leaders have commented about it, sometimes with backhanded
compliments.
Once I left the kids for a bit and came back later to find a game of tag going
on with props being thrown wildly and a baseball game had started using my
clubs as bats. But all the ADHD kids were off to the side still toss juggling
- they were among the few that were behaving properly within the rather
lenient bounds I'd established.
For the last couple of years I've wondered about the connection between ADHD
and juggling. I don't know enough about ADHD to understand the connection, but
I've seen the attraction too frequently to dismiss it. For what it's worth....
Ray
"For something that has spread with all the forethought of kudzu, the Internet
isn't half bad."
- Newsweek, 2/27/95
JoWoShad
planning are the frontal lobes. These areas are thought to be underactive in
children with ADHD. In learning to juggle, demands will be placed on these
areas and therefore may be beneficial to children with ADHD.
Let's make it 4 pennies. A second portion of the neuropsych theory of ADHD is
that a lack of stimulation is caused by lower portions of the brain sych as the
recticular activating system over filtering incoming information. This leaves
people seeking greater stimulation though activity. If this is true, just as
video games do, juggling should offer a great deal of stimulation and therefore
allow the kids to stay focused while increasing there self-esteem through
mastery of a new skill.
Good Luck in conducting the research.
Amanda Dalton
JoWoShad wrote:
Maybe we should cross post this with newsgroups related to ADHD? The thread seems
to have sparked quite a bit of interest here.
Mandy
Steve Nagoski
Amanda Dalton wrote in message <3763B4C4...@radix.net>...
>
>Maybe we should cross post this with newsgroups related to ADHD? The
thread seems
>to have sparked quite a bit of interest here.
>
As an adult struggling with ADHD, and an avid juggler, I've found this
thread to be facinating, and would love to discuss it in a more topical
newsgroup. What other newsgroups are you referring to?
Amanda Dalton
Steve Nagoski wrote:
Darn, I went a looking through the news groups and couldn't find any. This
is ridiculous. Here's a disorder that (if it's correctly projected)
affects nearly a quarter of all males and a significant (if lesser) number
of females, and it doesn't have a news group. I even looked through the
sci.psychology.research group and couldn't find anything related to ADHD,
let alone any research on object-oriented activities (activities in which
one focuses on a task involving inanimate objects.)
I'm going to look through the web. There are plenty of support groups out
there. Maybe we can find something through those folks. help from others
wouldf be most appreciated. It seems there are many of us out here in the
same boat.
The more that I'm going through this, the more that I notice a lack of
research in general on working with ADHD kids. Everyone seems to look at
ritulin as a panacea. What do you do with these kids after you dope them
up? You still have to teach them. What if the disorder prevents (as is my
suspicion) the student from interfacing in the educational environment in a
traditional manner? It seems we should look for techniques that help these
folks.
I remember somewhere, perhaps several years ago, an article on the local
news about some research into using the Physio Balls (huge balls, mostly
rubber and inflated, used for physical therapy) in a class of ADHD kids. I
wish I could remember where I saw the piece and when. They discovered that
the kids could focus better on their studies when they were sitting on
these balls, than when they were sitting in traditional chairs. They
weren't sure why, but the act of trying to balance to stay on the ball
helped the kids to focus their minds on other activities. I wonder if this
could be a similar to the way juggling affected the kids with whom I
worked?
Any way, let me know if you guys find anything interesting.
Your Humble Servant,
Mandy
Amanda Dalton
better day for this discussion at the festival. How does friday 7/30,
between 5p-7p sound? We could bring in food or have the meeting at a local
eatery?
Your humble servant
Mandy
Amanda Dalton wrote:
> I'd like to plan an informal lunch or dinner time discussion of teaching
> Juggling to ADHD and other special needs students on the festival
> Saturday (7/31). Anyone interested?
>
> I'd like to just have a meeting where we can share ideas and
> techniques. If this sounds interesting, I can also see about finding
> some pros in the area of special ed to help.
>
> BTW are there any IJA Members who are special ed teachers? If so, could
> we get your input?
>
> Your Humble Servant,
>
> Mandy
Laura Green
In researching for a grad school paper this spring, ("The Benefits of
Juggling on Math Achievement"..purely conjecture!) I found that there are
no scientific studies of the benefits of juggling on students...in special
or regular education. All reported studies are annecdotal. Searching ERIC
turned up zero, and the files of JUGGLERS WORLD offered several articles
from teachers of how juggling boosted academic achievements and improved
behavior and self esteeme. WE KNOW IT HELPS!! But now we have to prove it.
In working with special ed students and juggling, I saw first hand how the
kids loved it, took to it, stuck with it!
For my students that were hyper, juggling was a real god send!
This area is just DYING for some serious, well funded, well documented
research!
Any doctorial candidates out there?
I have printed off the posting on ADHD and filed them for the future.
Thanks!!
I have pulled together much of the available information on "The Benefits of
Juggling..." if anyone needs it.
We should thread onto the ADHD net, like Mandy has suggested.
Have fun in Niagara!! Wish I could be there!
Love,
Laura Green
Laura Green
>>>
>> BTW are there any IJA Members who are special ed teachers? If so, could
>> we get your input?
>>
>> Your Humble Servant,
>>
>> Mandy
>
and wellness field. They may be of help and would be interested. They
usually come to the festivals. Dave Finnigan is also an excellent resource.
Sure wish I was coming!
Keep me posted!
Laura Miz Tilly Green
>
Scott Seltzer
>Lorenzo Baronchelli wrote:
>> Could you give us more information about the program of your classes.
What
>> did you tought exactly? Which props did you use? What was the age of the
>> students?
>
has
>something more scientific on the subject, I'd appreciate hearing about it.
>Also, I'd like to work with anyone who'd like to build some double blind
>experiments or conduct studies of juglling and ADHD kids.
>
>The class:
[snip of detailed class description]
Sounds very similar to any ordinary juggling workshop with kids. I've always
seen kids with the discipline problems especially wanting to throw balls at
each other.
How is your experience specific to ADHD? How was your approach different
than it would have been with regular kids? How was their response different
than regular kids?
-Scott
Check out my juggling home page: http://www.juggling.org/~scott.seltzer/
ICQ Number 7645629
Change "NoSpam" to "Juggler" to send email
ejb...@user2.teleport.com
>is ridiculous. Here's a disorder that (if it's correctly projected)
>affects nearly a quarter of all males and a significant (if lesser) number
>of females, and it doesn't have a news group.
I haven't been active in the field for a bit, but the main problem with
ADHD is that, although everybody recognizes it when they see it, we still
don't know what it is. The definitions in the Feds and state schools are
almost always legal. Those few that have medical definitions are so vague
as to cover anything that moves faster than you'd like it to. This means
that the local school psychologist or IHP team decides what it is and who
gets services for it. And that means that any given diagnosis of ADHD
isn't necessarily the same thing (or even seen as a problem) in the next
school district over.
The researcher most responsible for making the subject and the
classification known has said that if you tell him what percent of the
population you want covered, he can make a definition (and a set of
diagnostic tests) that will find exactly that proportion of wall-bouncers
among the rest of the normies. (It was Sam Kirk, and he said it much more
elegantly, but this is what he meant.)
Nonetheless, obvious ADHD kids are obvious.
Ritalin and its equivalents doesn't get ADHD kids dopey or addicted
because their brains don't react to it the way yours and mine do (or an
elephant's does). For them it isn't an upper, it is what makes them think
and behave more like you and I do and less like someone with ADHD.
Withholding an ADHD kid's ritalin can be the equivalent of giving him a
good snort of cocaine -- though it usually takes a week of withholding to
make a kid revert completely.
And yes, many ADHD and other disordered kids do respond remarkably to
juggling. The repetitive motion and the pattern of movement seems very
comforting to them. (Patterning comes to mind.) The major thing is to
not set them up for yet another failure. Again, The major thing is to not
set them up for yet another failure.
And no, juggling won't cure anything. But it will allow them to master a
skill and perform it for others and themselves. So they will enjoy it for
much the same reasons you do -- the difference is that they often have
fewer resources like this than we do that make them feel good.
Sorry I won't be in Niagara to join the group.
=Eric Bagai er...@foreworks.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Foreworks Publications -------------------------- Flaming Sparrow Press
(Systems in Special Education) -------------- (Variety and Circus Arts)
Box 82289, Portland OR 97282 -- (503) 653-2614 -- www.foreworks.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Amanda Dalton
Scott Seltzer wrote:
>
> Sounds very similar to any ordinary juggling workshop with kids. I've always
> seen kids with the discipline problems especially wanting to throw balls at
> each other.
>
> How is your experience specific to ADHD? How was your approach different
> than it would have been with regular kids? How was their response different
> than regular kids?
>
> -Scott
> Check out my juggling home page: http://www.juggling.org/~scott.seltzer/
> ICQ Number 7645629
>
> Change "NoSpam" to "Juggler" to send email
Admittedly, It was pretty much the same with a few exceptions.
The results were a little different which is why I was interested in other
peoples' experiences with this group. I was wondering, in my original posting,
if others had found that ADHD kids have a better than average response to the
juggling. I was also wondering if there had been any research on it. In this
class, more kids were doing a three ball cascade after the first class than I
had ever had before. I had more self directed improvement than I had before in
so called "normal kids classes". I had never seen kids just figure out how to
do five balls on their own without prompting. I'm struggling with five myself
so I know they didn't get it from me. Now this is all anecdotal on my part; I
wasn't thinking about tracking this, I was sitting back amazed.
My experiences with "normal kids" has been that they work better when I take
them through everything step by step. Less throwing of equipment at others that
way. More kids actually "get" the cascade, etc. Here, that was not going to
work. I was told that I had to give them my expectation for the proper use of
the equipment and the disciplinary consequences, but the teachers also told me
not to expect them to follow any rigorous step by step plan. And short! They
told me to keep everything short. The shorter the better.
Another piece of advice that I was given was to be firm from the start. The
expectations had to be outlined completely, and the very first infraction
required consequences, such as a time-out.
I've noticed with "normal" that, like adults, they gravitate to one kind of prop
over another. I thought that letting these ADHD kids explore, without very much
instruction, at first , was the best way to go. When they found something that
they wanted, either beanbags, or diabolo, or Rolla Bolla, then they came to me
on their own to ask how. I was just going with a gut feeling that it would be
better for them to ask me first, rather than my being another adult telling them
what to do. So, I demonstrated each item very quickly, kept the whole thing to
five minutes and then let them tear loose.
I had a much shorter period of time in which to work than I would with normal
kids. These ADHD kids, as a group, seem to have a forty five minute time frame
in which you can reach them before they explode. At least, that's what the
teachers there said. Phoenix Center (the name of the special school) gears
everything to a forty five minute time frame.
I had a very short period of time to get these kids ready for a performance. I
had been asked to work with these kids by a theatrical director/friend who was
given a grant to help these kids put on a variety show. This was my first
experience with ADHD/Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. So I pretty much had to
rely on my past experience with "normal kids". These kids are the hardest cases
in this particular school system. They set fires, have excessively violent
outbursts, and are unmanageable in a traditional classroom setting. This school
offers a higher staff to student ratio. The kids receive a lot of one on one
behavior management and therapy.
According to the teachers and to my friend, this was the only part of the
process in which the kids did not put up an active resistance. They were
rolling their eyes during the songs, ready to fight with each other during the
skits, destroying the costumes, and held cussing fits. The juggling turned into
something the kids enjoyed and it was held out to them as a reward for good
behavior at other times.
So that was some more of my experience. I really don't have anyway to back up
any of this stuff. I'm not even sure there is a way right now. I just thought
that I would see here if anyone else had a similar experience
--
Mandy Dalton
clown, actress, fun philosopher
________________________________________________________
(from John Townsen's _Clowns_)
"A clown is a poet who is also an orangutan."
--Anonymous
Amanda Dalton
ejb...@user2.teleport.com wrote:
> > . . .
> >is ridiculous. Here's a disorder that (if it's correctly projected)
> >affects nearly a quarter of all males and a significant (if lesser) number
> >of females, and it doesn't have a news group.
>
> I haven't been active in the field for a bit, but the main problem with
> ADHD is that, although everybody recognizes it when they see it, we still
> don't know what it is. The definitions in the Feds and state schools are
> almost always legal. Those few that have medical definitions are so vague
> as to cover anything that moves faster than you'd like it to. This means
> that the local school psychologist or IHP team decides what it is and who
> gets services for it. And that means that any given diagnosis of ADHD
> isn't necessarily the same thing (or even seen as a problem) in the next
> school district over.
Wow! That's an important point. Thanks for bringing it up. I suppose this is
part of the reason why the research into teaching techniques is sketchy at
best. If they (school systems, doctors, psychologists, and members of the
juvenile justice system) don't even know how to define it, then how are they
supposed to research it? Yet they are seperating these kids for behavioral
problems and are desperately looking for quick fix alternatives. Some in the
media criticize many schools, doctors, and parents for the over diagnoses of
ADHD. I agree with that criticismn some cases, but...
>
> Nonetheless, obvious ADHD kids are obvious.
There are certainly some kids who clearly have trouble with sitting, paying
attention, listening, and behaving appropriately well beyond their
developmental age. The group with whom I worked had these problems and others
to say the least.
> Ritalin and its equivalents doesn't get ADHD kids dopey or addicted
> because their brains don't react to it the way yours and mine do (or an
> elephant's does). For them it isn't an upper, it is what makes them think
> and behave more like you and I do and less like someone with ADHD.
> Withholding an ADHD kid's ritalin can be the equivalent of giving him a
> good snort of cocaine -- though it usually takes a week of withholding to
> make a kid revert completely.
Yes, I see your point. You're right to correct me there. I'm not a doctor,
but from what I've seen, Ritalin is a great maintenence medication for this
group.
Correct me please if I'm wrong, but Ritalin also seems to have peeks and
valleys during the time the med runs in the body. Sometimes the kids are
responding well, other times the respond less. It seems to me that these kids
carry behaviors with them while on the medication that they learned when off of
the med. They also could not learn to deal with their emotions appropriately
off of the med, consequently they "act out" even while they are on the med. I
guess I see a hole where some educational techniques are needed to complement
the use of the medication. Maybe this is where juggling, and other object
oriented activities, could serve these kids.
> And yes, many ADHD and other disordered kids do respond remarkably to
> juggling. The repetitive motion and the pattern of movement seems very
> comforting to them. (Patterning comes to mind.) The major thing is to
> not set them up for yet another failure. Again, The major thing is to not
> set them up for yet another failure.
AMEN. I think that juggling should be an exploratory process for these kids
and not one in which they are expected to have a particular outcome (i. e.
performance.) That was the double bind in which I found myself . My kids were
expected to do something for a show. Luckilly, they rose to the challenge.
> And no, juggling won't cure anything. But it will allow them to master a
> skill and perform it for others and themselves. So they will enjoy it for
> much the same reasons you do -- the difference is that they often have
> fewer resources like this than we do that make them feel good.
>
> Sorry I won't be in Niagara to join the group.
>
>> Foreworks Publications -------------------------- Flaming Sparrow Press
>> (Systems in Special Education) -------------- (Variety and Circus Arts)
>> Box 82289, Portland OR 97282 -- (503) 653-2614 -- www.foreworks.com
>>
I'm sorry too Eric! You seem to have a good deal of information about this!
Could you share some of your own experiences working with special needs kids
here? I could use the help, and judging from my e-mail, so could others.
Thanks
Amanda Dalton
Laura Green wrote:
> I am studying for my masters in secondary education (math).
> In researching for a grad school paper this spring, ("The Benefits of
> Juggling on Math Achievement"..purely conjecture!) I found that there are
> no scientific studies of the benefits of juggling on students...in special
> or regular education.
Man am I ever glad that you posted on this Laura! You just saved me an enormous
amount of head banging against huge walls. I am confident that if anyone was
capable of finding this info. it would be you, and that it would have been
posted by now.
> All reported studies are annecdotal. Searching ERIC
> turned up zero, and the files of JUGGLERS WORLD offered several articles
> from teachers of how juggling boosted academic achievements and improved
> behavior and self esteeme. WE KNOW IT HELPS!! But now we have to prove it.
> In working with special ed students and juggling, I saw first hand how the
> kids loved it, took to it, stuck with it!
> For my students that were hyper, juggling was a real god send!
So now I think that the big questions are...
What would studies or double blind experiments in Juggling and education
(special or otherwise) look like?
How do you design these studies?
How would a hypothesis be framed?
How do you select the groups to be studied?
And most of all...how do we get enough jugglers dedicated to juggling in
education to participate in a study? We would have to refine and define a
method of teaching juggling for the sake of a study, and some may find this too
restrictive. Then there's the issue of reporting one's results. We would need
professional oversight, and (yikes) funding.
It's a pretty daunting task for a bunch of folks who do this because we have
fun. No wonder it has not been done before. But I think that you're right. We
have to prove this. We have to put some energy into a demonstration of what we
know to be true from our experiences.
> I have printed off the posting on ADHD and filed them for the future.
> Thanks!!
>
> I have pulled together much of the available information on "The Benefits of
> Juggling..." if anyone needs it.
Yes! I will e-mail you for the info shortly. What about yourself as a
potential researcher Miss Tilly? You da woomannn.
Jake Cooper
Amanda Dalton wrote in message <377640CE...@radix.net>...
>
>Laura Green wrote:
>
>> I found that there are
>> no scientific studies of the benefits of juggling on students...in
special
>> or regular education.
>> WE KNOW IT HELPS!! But now we have to prove it.
>So now I think that the big questions are...
>
>What would studies or double blind experiments in Juggling and education
>(special or otherwise) look like?
I don't think there's such a thing as "placebolic" juggling (it's not just a
pill or syrup).
But that doesn't matter, we could compare the juggling students to the
non-jugglers.
>How do you design these studies?
Perhaps a teacher who teaches 2 classes would be willing to teach 1 class
juggling, and not the other. If the classes didn't know about the
experiment, then there shouldn't be any "I'm in the juggling class so the
teacher wants me to do better, so I will" thinking goin' on. I'm not sure
how the evidence would be taken, but maybe in the form of: number of minutes
it takes the class to pay attention after lunch or recess... number of
children that come to the teacher with problems from other kids in the
class... etc. Because I'm not a teacher and have never really witnessed the
effects of juggling on students, this whole paragraph is based on what I've
read in this thread. I'm just setting up the experiment how my chemistry
teacher would want me to (able to graph and put numbers on improvement, not
just to 'see' it).
>How would a hypothesis be framed?
I think we already have a hypothesis:
If students are taught juggling, then their (behavoir, self-esteem, ability
to concentrate, I don't know) improves.
Definitely worded differently, but I think that's the idea.
>How do you select the groups to be studied?
I think we'd have to just take what we can get (I have no idea how many
people are willing to help here). Anyone who's able to perform this
experiment... Hmmm, I don't really know.
>And most of all...how do we get enough jugglers dedicated to juggling in
>education to participate in a study? We would have to refine and define a
>method of teaching juggling for the sake of a study, and some may find this
too
>restrictive. Then there's the issue of reporting one's results. We would
need
>professional oversight, and (yikes) funding.
This is why I said we should just take what we can get. I'm certainly not
the person to answer this question. I'd be willing to take and sort
information, but I can't do the experiment.
>It's a pretty daunting task for a bunch of folks who do this because we
have
>fun. No wonder it has not been done before. But I think that you're
right. We
>have to prove this. We have to put some energy into a demonstration of
what we
>know to be true from our experiences.
How's this:
NYT Headline "Juggling improves _______"
# of Jugglers doubles for a quick fad, but many new jugglers keep it up
Some learn to pass clubs
Somebody in your area (finally) to pass clubs with!
That'll be my motivation! <grin>
>> I have pulled together much of the available information on "The Benefits
of
>> Juggling..." if anyone needs it.
Please! I'd love that.
Jake Cooper
c_thom...@my-deja.com
because of several symptoms including distractibility and a short
attention span. I also know that both sides of my body did not work in
perfect harmony (which is necessary for juggling). With the help of my
doctor I learned more about an FDA medicine which temporarily reduced
distractibility a little and increased attention span a little. The
medicine temporarily improved my ability to juggle a little (effected
the idea of bilateral (both sides of the body) gross/fine motor control
vs unilateral (one side of the body only) gross/fine motor control).
http://homepages.msn.com/RightWay/c_thomas_wild/
In article <7jiojn$irn$1...@fe1.cs.interbusiness.it>,
"Lorenzo Baronchelli" <lo...@mediacom.it> wrote:
> Could you give us more information about the program of your classes.
What
> did you tought exactly? Which props did you use? What was the age of
the
> students?
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Bye.
>
> Lorenzo Baronchelli
>
> Amanda Dalton ha scritto nel messaggio
<37551F0A...@radix.net>...
> >I have recently had a terrifically successful class for ADHD students
> >and students with post traumatic stress disorder. I taught them
juggling
> >and they took to it like filings to a magnet. Does any one know of
any
> >scientific, behavioral studies on juggling and ADHD kids?
> >
> >Your Humble Servant,
> >
> >Mandy
> >
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
c_thom...@my-deja.com
had extremely difficulty trying to juggle as a kid. With the help of
my doctor years later I learned more about a medicine which for me
temporarily gave me minor increased gross/fine motor control. What
happened to me is known to be quite rare (that is, for a medicine to
work in the ways it does for me).
In article <19990613021345...@ng-fb1.aol.com>,
jowo...@aol.com (JoWoShad) wrote:
> Just my 2 pennies on ADHD and juggling. The area of the brain used
>for complex planning are the frontal lobes.
...(Yes, the frontal lobes are associated with planning...but other
areas of the brain are known to be involved in ADHD including parts of
the right hemisphere...There is a wide variability present with
ADHD)... (mild, moderate, severe cases)...
These areas are thought to be underactive in
> children with ADHD. In learning to juggle, demands will be placed on
these
> areas and therefore may be beneficial to children with ADHD.
...With all due respect may I say that I personally enjoy watching a
juggler juggle and I personally enjoyed learning how to try to juggle
and that I'm sure teaching juggling will help some kids with ADHD...in
terms of enjoyment likely most...but some may, in my view, tend to
figure out they lack the full gift for juggling and may wonder why they
cannot perfect the movements perhaps along the lines of someone with a
mild form of cerebral palsy who wonders why their body does not work
perfectly...for a subpopulation within the ADHD syndrome, in my view,
this is a real consideration...that's my view...)...
> Let's make it 4 pennies. A second portion of the neuropsych theory
of ADHD is
> that a lack of stimulation is caused by lower portions of the brain
sych as the
> recticular activating system over filtering incoming information.
...(That is exactly correct. An FDA approved medicine, a special
caffeine compound, for me works better than Ritalin and caffeine is
known to effect the reticular formation of the brain stem which is
associated with part of the ability to pay attention easily: X-ref,
The Hyperactive Child by Domeena C. Renshaw, M.D.; original research
done by Anita Uhl Brothers, M.D., from Berkeley, California)...
This leaves
> people seeking greater stimulation though activity. If this is true,
just as
> video games do, juggling should offer a great deal of stimulation and
therefore
> allow the kids to stay focused while increasing there self-esteem
through
> mastery of a new skill.
...(Some kids with ADHD will master juggling which is wonderful...at
the same time there will be some kids with ADHD who will
not...again...with all due respect...perhaps a subpopulation close to
the notion of mild, mild cerebral palsy...ADHD today in 1999 is known
to be a physical, neurological challenge like Epilepsy (petit-mal,
absence, psychomotor, temporal lobe, complex partial), Tourette's,
Parkinson's, and Dyslexia. ADHD/ADD is a mild or greater lifelong
neurological challenge in my view. Some people may laugh at this but
in my view the movie Awakenings with Robin Williams (based on the book
by Oliver W. Sacks, M.D.) hints at the part of what ADHD is for some
people. The right medicine for a few (not all) can create a temporary,
large improvement in many areas. That is exactly what happened to me
years ago. > Good Luck in conducting the research.
ADHD resource: http://homepages.msn.com/RightWay/c_thomas_wild/
c_thom...@my-deja.com
alt.support.attn-deficit
Best wishes - C. Thomas Wild (an adult with mild ADHD)
http://homepages.msn.com/RightWay/c_thomas_wild/
>In article <3767034D...@radix.net>,
Amanda Dalton <kl...@radix.net> wrote:
>
>
> Steve Nagoski wrote:
>
> > Amanda Dalton wrote in message <3763B4C4...@radix.net>...
> > >
> > >Maybe we should cross post this with newsgroups related to ADHD?
The
> > thread seems
> > >to have sparked quite a bit of interest here.
> > >
> >
> > As an adult struggling with ADHD, and an avid juggler, I've found
this
> > thread to be facinating, and would love to discuss it in a more
topical
> > newsgroup. What other newsgroups are you referring to?
>
> Darn, I went a looking through the news groups and couldn't find
any. This
> is ridiculous. Here's a disorder that (if it's correctly projected)
> affects nearly a quarter of all males and a significant (if lesser)
number
c_thom...@my-deja.com
Sincerely, C. Thomas Wild (an adult with mild ADHD (unilateral vs
bilateral) who can temporarily juggle a little with the right
medicine; with no medicine, juggling is far more difficult/impossible)
In article <7k682a$e...@beast.connix.com>,
"Steve Nagoski" <NagoskiS...@aetna.com> wrote:
>
> Amanda Dalton wrote in message <3763B4C4...@radix.net>...
> >
> >Maybe we should cross post this with newsgroups related to ADHD? The
> thread seems
> >to have sparked quite a bit of interest here.
> >
>
> As an adult struggling with ADHD, and an avid juggler,
...(Good, you're an avid juggler, one of those within ADHD who can
juggle well...Yes, the ADHD population is quite varied (mild, moderate,
and severe) with some good jugglers and some not...)...(With all due
respect, keep on juggling...)...(It's fun to watch those with the gift
of juggling to use their special gifts)...
> I've found this
> thread to be facinating, and would love to discuss it in a more
topical
> newsgroup. What other newsgroups are you referring to?
>
>
c_thom...@my-deja.com
> >affects nearly a quarter of all males and a significant (if lesser)
number
> >of females, and it doesn't have a news group.
>
with
> ADHD is that, although everybody recognizes it when they see it, we
still
> don't know what it is. The definitions in the Feds and state schools
are
> almost always legal. Those few that have medical definitions are so
vague
> as to cover anything that moves faster than you'd like it to. This
means
> that the local school psychologist or IHP team decides what it is and
who
> gets services for it. And that means that any given diagnosis of ADHD
> isn't necessarily the same thing (or even seen as a problem) in the
next
> school district over.
>
> classification known has said that if you tell him what percent of the
> population you want covered, he can make a definition (and a set of
> diagnostic tests) that will find exactly that proportion of wall-
bouncers
> among the rest of the normies. (It was Sam Kirk, and he said it much
more
> elegantly, but this is what he meant.)
>
>
...(As an adult with mild ADHD, an FDA approved medicine, a special
caffeine compound works better for me than Ritalin in temporarily
reducing distractibility and increasing attention span. ADHD/ADD in
1999 is known to be a physical, neurological challenge like Epilepsy
(petit-mal, absence, psychomotor, temporal lobe, complex partial),
greater neurological challenge.)...(Caffeine for me works better than
Ritalin or Dexedrine: with caffeine I do not feel drugged...)...(It's
known that Ritalin works for some and caffeine and Dexedrine do not;
Dexedrine can work for some but not caffeine and Ritalin; and, so
on...There's a lot of variability with the ADHD syndrome)...(Some have
very mild symptoms where no medicine is needed; others look for the
right medicine and yet have not found one which works well for them
suggesting the need for more research so answers/partial answers can be
discovered to help meet their individual needs)...
doesn't get ADHD kids dopey or addicted
> because their brains don't react to it the way yours and mine do (or
an
> elephant's does). For them it isn't an upper, it is what makes them
think
> and behave more like you and I do and less like someone with ADHD.
> Withholding an ADHD kid's ritalin can be the equivalent of giving him
a
> good snort of cocaine -- though it usually takes a week of
withholding to
> make a kid revert completely.
>
> juggling. The repetitive motion and the pattern of movement seems
very
> comforting to them. (Patterning comes to mind.) The major thing is
to
> not set them up for yet another failure. Again, The major thing is
to not
> set them up for yet another failure.
>
master a
> skill and perform it for others and themselves. So they will enjoy
it for
> much the same reasons you do -- the difference is that they often have
> fewer resources like this than we do that make them feel good.
>
> Sorry I won't be in Niagara to join the group.
>
er...@foreworks.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> Foreworks Publications -------------------------- Flaming Sparrow
Press
> (Systems in Special Education) -------------- (Variety and Circus
Arts)
> Box 82289, Portland OR 97282 -- (503) 653-2614 --
www.foreworks.com
-
c_thom...@my-deja.com
medicine, a special caffeine compound, which works better for me than
Ritalin. Ritalin works better for most people with ADHD than
caffeine; caffeine can help a small subpopulation of those with paying
attention challenges. The caffeine medicine for me works only
temporarily. Medicines which contain caffeine are made by different
manufacturers with different ingredients/different grades of
caffeine/and so on. The longest a single medicine from one company
worked was 72 hours. The shortest a single medicine worked from
another company was 2 hours. One of the medicines that works well for
me tends to work about 4 hours (and subsequent doses do not work as
well). So your observation that medicines can have peaks and valleys
(aka a roller coaster effect) is correct in many cases. The shortest
time I have heard a medicine working is about 1 hour (where subsequent
doses did not help). That's part of the ADHD syndrome where there is a
great deal of variability (mild, moderate, and severe cases)...(where
medicines can vary in effectiveness from - 0 - (med doesn't work) to
good, better, and in a handful of cases quite striking - along the
lines of the improvements displayed in the movie Awakenings with Robin
Williams based on the book by Oliver W. Sacks, M.D.)...
c_thom...@my-deja.com
"Laura Green" <jugg...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> I am studying for my masters in secondary education (math).
> In researching for a grad school paper this spring, ("The Benefits of
there are
> no scientific studies of the benefits of juggling on students...in
special
Searching ERIC
> turned up zero, and the files of JUGGLERS WORLD offered several
articles
> from teachers of how juggling boosted academic achievements and
improved
prove it.
> In working with special ed students and juggling, I saw first hand
how the
> kids loved it, took to it, stuck with it!
> For my students that were hyper, juggling was a real god send!
>
> research!
> Any doctorial candidates out there?
>
> Thanks!!
>
Benefits of
> Juggling..." if anyone needs it.
who display the symptom of inattention (one of the ADHD symptoms) is
discussed in a number of books including Nerves In Collison by Walter
C. Alvarez, M.D.; A Remarkable Medicine Has Been Overlooked (Dilantin)
by Jack Dreyfus; How to Cure Hyperactivity (aka ADHD): A Blueprint
Involving Nutrition - More Than A Theory (1981) by Anita Uhl Brothers,
M.D. et al.; and, Awakenings by Oliver W. Sacks, M.D...which are
available through the national library system...
> We should thread onto the ADHD net, like Mandy has suggested.
>
> Have fun in Niagara!! Wish I could be there!
>
> Love,
> Laura Green
>
>
c_thom...@my-deja.com
Alan Mackenzie<no...@all.de> wrote:
> Amanda Dalton <kl...@radix.net> wrote:
> > I have recently had a terrifically successful class for ADHD
students
> > and students with post traumatic stress disorder.
...ADHD/ADD is the Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder syndrome,
the new name for hyperactivity (the primary symptom is inattention;
for many others there is also motor hyperactivity and sometimes
impulsivity). Hyperactivity (Hyperkinetic Syndrome of Childhood) used
to be known as Minimal Brain Dysfunction and prior to that Minimal
Brain Damage (before doctors realized a handful of medicines could help
some, not all, temporarily pay attention a little easier). The ADHD
syndrome has undergone a large number of renamings (recoinings) over
the past 50 years (approximately). In 1999 ADHD is known to be a
lifelong, mild, moderate, or severe neurological challenge as real as
Epilepsy (petit-mal, absence, psychomotor, temporal lobe, complex
generalization, the most effective treatment is one of the CNS
stimulants (which include caffeine, Ritalin, and Dexedrine). That
narrow class of medicines is associated most closely with the idea of
paying attention, concentration, gross/fine motor control, and memory.
>
> > Mandy
>
> -- Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany)
> Email: ayes...@emmyousee.deeeee; to decode, replace "aye"
by 'a', "see"
> by 'c', etc.
c_thom...@my-deja.com
Amanda Dalton <kl...@radix.net> wrote:
>
>
> Lorenzo Baronchelli wrote:
>
> > Could you give us more information about the program of your
classes. What
> > did you tought exactly? Which props did you use? What was the age
of the
> > students?
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Bye.
> >
> > Lorenzo Baronchelli
>
there has
> something more scientific on the subject, I'd appreciate hearing
about it.
> Also, I'd like to work with anyone who'd like to build some double
blind
> experiments or conduct studies of juglling and ADHD kids.
>
> The class:
>
to
able to learn how to juggle well but a subpopulation will not. The
subpopulation with ADHD classified as unilateral (one side of the body)
vs both sides (bilateral) may be able to juggle using the one hand/arm
which works best. My name is C. Thomas Wild, an adult with mild
unilateral ADHD who can juggle with one hand and arm better than the
other (except when using the right medicine when I can temporarily use
both hands and arms better). With all due respect, keep up your
juggling and juggling classes. You and all jugglers have a gift which
is fun to watch. Best wishes.
Andy
sufferer of ADD. One key thing to bear in mind when talking about any
activity, juggling or otherwise, in relation to a person with ADD is that
calling it an attention deficit is wrong. It's not strictly a deficit, but
actually more of an inconsistency. At times someone with ADD could be totally
distracted, unable to concentrate on any one activity for more than a few
seconds. Other times, they can become sort of hyper -focused. So it's quite
possible that someone with ADD could actually pick up juggling easier than
someone without, because, particularly if it's something that really interests
them, they can focus on it to the exclusion of everything around them.
For me, I think it's kind of been a progression from one end to the other in
regards to juggling. When I first tried learning (I'd guess anywhere between
age 7 and age 14 or so) I couldn't get more than four or five tosses with three
balls. I'd be throwing all over the place, and even after weeks of dedicated
trying I'd be having no luck while everyone around me had it easy. Once I did
learn, though, I often find times where I'm too focused on the juggling--I'm so
wrapped up in the pattern that shifting focus for even a moment causes me to
drop. With enough practice, concentration, and a little help from Ritalin, I'm
usually pretty good now, though, as long as I can keep my mind set on juggling
for long enough to get the balls in the air (that was a joke :o)
Wow, that was a lot of rambling, so I'll jet now, but glad to finally join the
newsgroup, and to see all the friendly helpful people here (I'm a long time
reader of alt.magic, and am always let down by the quality (or lack thereof) of
discussion there--this is a pleasant change!)
Thanks for listening,
Andy