bounce juggling in juggling simulators.

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vincent

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Dec 11, 2003, 7:55:58 PM12/11/03
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Greetings all,


I am writing to ask you what you think of the following suggestion
regarding the representation of bounce juggling in juggling simulators.

More and more juggling software simulates patterns with bouncing balls
but at the moment the simulations lack realism and I think some
improvements could be made.
At present, the simulations are strange because the programmers (I think)
are making a distinction only between the different kinds of THROW.

I remember that "Jongl" supports bouncing patterns and even features like
double bounces and you can mix lift and forced throws with throws in the
air.
"Juggle lab " too.
"Joepass" also supports bouncing and it has features like moving while
juggling(e.g. pirouettes etc.).

I don't think any of them supports hyperlift or hyperforce because not a
lot of
jugglers are aware of this or use it in real life.
Maybe this is not a good excuse because not many jugglers
do 7 chainsaws behind the back in real life but "Jongl" is
still able to show it. Perhaps then force catches are not as sexy as
chainsaws...


---------------------------------------------------------------------
There are 2 ways to THROW a ball:

1.a lift bounce
2.and a forced bounce.

("passif" throw and "actif" throw in french)

In Joepass, the 2 versions are built into the software with
just a litlle "b" or "bb" after a throw: it's magic!
(Thank you mister "oui oui" :-) )

---------------------------------------------------------------------
But there are also 2 differents ways to CATCH a ball:

1.catching a ball when it's on the way down-I call this a lift catch
(after reaching the highest point of its trajectory)
(passif catch in french)
2.catching a ball directly when it's on the way up - I call this a forced
catch
(actif catch in french )

---------------------------------------------------------------------

There are four different throw/catch combinations:

1. lift throw and lift catch (known as Hyperlift)
2. lift throw and forced catch (known as lift)
3. forced throw and lift catch (known as force)
4. forced throw and forced catch (known as hyperforce)

For the notation, you are of course free to do as you wish :-)

---------------------------------------------------------------------
All this is to see if there is a way of improving the realism of
simulators so that they more accurately reproduce the different
rhythms created by the different throws and catches.

Of course it would be really great if we could also hear the sound
of the ball hitting the floor!
If all this could be incorporated into juggling simulators
the effect would be amazing!

There is a part about the different kinds of throws and catches
in "Bouncing in Paris" - the scene where I'm alone in front of
the glass pyramid at the Louvre museum. It is towards the end of the film,
in the "educational" part, and there are titles in the corners of the
frame detailing the type of pattern (lift, force, hyperlift and hyperforce)
with 3 to 5 balls.

I will appreciate your comments and thoughts on this matter.


Vincent

(Merci beaucoup à Monsieur Steve G,I.O et S.G )


----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----

The Void

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Dec 11, 2003, 8:14:10 PM12/11/03
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vincent wrote:

> 1. lift throw and lift catch (known as Hyperlift)

I would have thought that as this is the simplest (easiest?) way of doing
bounce juggling, it
doesn't make sense to prefix it with "Hyper". I'd say this one should be
called just "Lift".

> 2. lift throw and forced catch (known as lift)

...which would mean this has to have another name. Hyper doesn't seem
right to me, as it
suggests doing something the same way, but *more so*. I.E. - when i first
read "hyperlift", i
imagined a much higher lift throw than a 'normal' lift throw. Similarly, i
imagined 'hyperforce' as a
more forceful force bounce (I.E. -it would rebound higher).
The 'passif/actif' nomenclature made sense to me, but then that starts to
make the notation look
a bit daft.

Any more thoughts on this, anyone?

The Void

Jack Boyce

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Dec 12, 2003, 12:34:46 PM12/12/03
to
vincent wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
>
> I am writing to ask you what you think of the following suggestion
> regarding the representation of bounce juggling in juggling simulators.
> [snip]

> There are four different throw/catch combinations:
>
> 1. lift throw and lift catch (known as Hyperlift)
> 2. lift throw and forced catch (known as lift)
> 3. forced throw and lift catch (known as force)
> 4. forced throw and forced catch (known as hyperforce)
>
>

I'm a developer for the Juggling Lab simulator. These changes would be
pretty easy to add -- really figuring out the math is the biggest part.
I'd also like to add support for multiple bounces, which is not in
Juggling Lab today.

Sounds would also be easy to incorporate, but I lack the relevant audio
samples (ball hitting floor, ball hitting hand). I don't have access to
recording/sampling equipment. Is there anybody with such equipment who
could volunteer to sample a range of such sounds?

Jack

Jeff Clark

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Dec 12, 2003, 1:15:50 PM12/12/03
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> I don't think any of them supports hyperlift or hyperforce because not a
> lot of jugglers are aware of this or use it in real life.

I have to agree with this, I'm a fairly serious bouncer, and have never
heard the terminology used.

> There are 2 ways to THROW a ball:
>
> 1.a lift bounce
> 2.and a forced bounce.
>
> ("passif" throw and "actif" throw in french)
>
> In Joepass, the 2 versions are built into the software with
> just a litlle "b" or "bb" after a throw: it's magic!
> (Thank you mister "oui oui" :-) )
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> But there are also 2 differents ways to CATCH a ball:
>
> 1.catching a ball when it's on the way down-I call this a lift catch
> (after reaching the highest point of its trajectory)
> (passif catch in french)
> 2.catching a ball directly when it's on the way up - I call this a forced
> catch
> (actif catch in french )
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are four different throw/catch combinations:
>
> 1. lift throw and lift catch (known as Hyperlift)
> 2. lift throw and forced catch (known as lift)
> 3. forced throw and lift catch (known as force)
> 4. forced throw and forced catch (known as hyperforce)
>
> For the notation, you are of course free to do as you wish :-)

I remember this section in Bouncing In Paris, but I just thought of it as
a random demonstration.

> Of course it would be really great if we could also hear the sound
> of the ball hitting the floor!
> If all this could be incorporated into juggling simulators
> the effect would be amazing!

Agreed.



> There is a part about the different kinds of throws and catches
> in "Bouncing in Paris" - the scene where I'm alone in front of
> the glass pyramid at the Louvre museum. It is towards the end of the film,
> in the "educational" part, and there are titles in the corners of the
> frame detailing the type of pattern (lift, force, hyperlift and hyperforce)
> with 3 to 5 balls.

Yeah, thats the one.

I don't have any control over computer programming at all, so I can't
really
help you on this, but i think they are great ideas.

I'm just a little curious about some of your records. In BIP, you do 58
catches of a seven ball force bounce. What is your personal best for this
trick? Also, can you hyperforce 7 balls?

Thanks Vincent, I love your juggling, absolutely brilliant.

Jeff

Luke Burrage

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Dec 12, 2003, 7:12:07 PM12/12/03
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> There are four different throw/catch combinations:
>
> 1. lift throw and lift catch (known as Hyperlift)
> 2. lift throw and forced catch (known as lift)
> 3. forced throw and lift catch (known as force)
> 4. forced throw and forced catch (known as hyperforce)

So what do you call the throws and catches when I force bounce 7 beanbags
off a ceiling? I'm doing forced upwards throws and forced downward
catches... a reverse hyperforce?

Luke Burrage

Jack Boyce

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Dec 12, 2003, 8:47:15 PM12/12/03
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Luke Burrage wrote:
>
> [snip] ... a reverse hyperforce?
>

If Yoda were a professional wrestler, that would be the move he would do.

Jack

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