How to pronounce "Mills'"
GLF00
"Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is Mills,
not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
--
----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
fakoriginal
>
> I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is Mills,
> not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
>
No. Say what you see.
fak - biting lip
charliejuggler
> I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is Mills,
> not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
>
possessive proper nouns should be avoided when the noun ends in a 'zz'
sound, as this makes the word harder to say. An example might be "Moses'
son" or "Jesus' bicycle".
C
Peter Bone
>
> I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is Mills,
> not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
>
No. Other examples of this are 'Gatto multiplex' and 'Fosbury Flop'.
Pete
AliTheJuggler
>
> I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is Mills,
> not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
>
apostrophe ;)
mills'
Guy G
>
> I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is Mills,
> not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
No, because it isn't Mills' Mess, it's Mills Mess.
Guy
ErikAberg
>
> I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is Mills,
> not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
>
I spoke to Karl-Heinz Ziethen about this trick and he says Bela Kremo did
it already in the 30ies, so
maybe it shouldn´t even be called Mills Mess in the first place?
Draitube
>
> I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is Mills,
> not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
>
I personally am quite intrigued at this question.
Surely it will be Milzez Mess?
I mean I understand it's written like Mills' (because mills ends with "s")
but when you pronounce it, I think
you still say Milzez :S
Jason
Sondre Øverby
Then again, if it is "The Mess of Mills" and not "The Mess that belongs to
Mills" then it's "Mills Mess".
fakoriginal
Arguments about whether it Mills is possessive or not [1) aside, why would
you pronounce more letters than are there? I've heard of silent letters in
words [2], but never invisible ones.
fak - staggered
[1] Check out how Steve Mills describes it on his website, and he should
know.
[1] In English.
charliejuggler
C
charliejuggler
C
The Void
> > I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> > "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is Mills,
> > not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
No.
> I spoke to Karl-Heinz Ziethen about this trick and he says Bela Kremo did
> it already in the 30ies, so
> maybe it shouldn´t even be called Mills Mess in the first place?
It isn't called that in the *first* place. I've been told it was known as
Utter Confusion before it was Mills
Mess.
The Void
................
But then again, he thought the whole "books on frisbees" thing was
hilarious.....
fakoriginal
that one and one made two?
fak - spotting twins.
[1] note the spelling, it is not "Math"
jgl smltr v0
>
> I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is Mills,
> not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
>
Just say "the trick in which both arms cross n uncross n things"
sounds better
Guy G
>
> Draitube wrote:
> >
> > GLF00 wrote:
> > >
> > > I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> > > "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is
Mills,
> > > not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
> > >
> >
> > I personally am quite intrigued at this question.
> >
> > Surely it will be Milzez Mess?
> >
> > I mean I understand it's written like Mills' (because mills ends with "s")
> > but when you pronounce it, I think
> > you still say Milzez :S
> >
> > Jason
> >
>
> Arguments about whether it Mills is possessive or not [1) aside, why would
> you pronounce more letters than are there? I've heard of silent letters in
> words [2], but never invisible ones.
>
> fak - staggered
Like this?
f
a
k
Guy - getting coat.
Guy G
IJDb.
Guy - Disappointed with whitespace issues
ChaseMartin
>
> I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is Mills,
> not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
>
I say Mills' the same way as Mill's, so it works for me
GLF00
>
>
> Arguments about whether it Mills is possessive or not [1) aside, why would
> you pronounce more letters than are there? I've heard of silent letters in
> words [2], but never invisible ones.
>
Good point about checking his website, I did, and he calls it "Mills
Mess", not "Mills' Mess".
But to answer your question about "invisible letters", English grammar
dictates that to indicate possession you add an apostrophe and an s. So
if I had invented the mess I could have called it "Flanagan's Mess". But
I'm pretty sure that English grammar also says that when you have a
word/name ending in s (such as Mills) you show it in writing by just
putting an apostrophe at the end (Mills') but you pronounce it with an
extra "ez" sound, therefore "Milzez".
Jay Linn
<glenluk...@gmail.com.nospam.com> wrote:
> Good point about checking his website, I did, and he calls it "Mills
> Mess", not "Mills' Mess".
Indeed.
> But to answer your question about "invisible letters", English grammar
> dictates that to indicate possession you add an apostrophe and an s.
I would argue that English grammar makes a habit of not dictating much at
all, what with English being a living, evolving language that is extremely
good at adapting to ever changing use and patterns of language.
I would also argue (as you do in the next paragraph) that the dictate you
mention is somewhat undermined by the possessive being indicated by a
solitary apostrophe on occasions.
> So
> if I had invented the mess I could have called it "Flanagan's Mess". But
> I'm pretty sure that English grammar also says that when you have a
> word/name ending in s (such as Mills) you show it in writing by just
> putting an apostrophe at the end (Mills') but you pronounce it with an
> extra "ez" sound, therefore "Milzez".
Mills Mess - the mess named after Mills.
Mills' Mess - the mess belonging to Mills, where there is just one Mills.
Mill's Mess - the mess belonging to Mill.
Mills's Mess - the mess belonging to the collective group of more than
one lot of Mills.
--
Jay Linn
How the Hell did I get sucked into this? Again!
fakoriginal
That's something I've never seen in English grammar. If it's Mills' then
I'd pronounce that the same as Mills or Mill's. Where are you getting
extra letters from to pronounce an additional "es"?
fak
Little Paul
>
> That's something I've never seen in English grammar. If it's Mills' then
> I'd pronounce that the same as Mills or Mill's. Where are you getting
> extra letters from to pronounce an additional "es"?
America.
-Paul
--
paulseward.com - a photo a day for 2008
100jugglers.org - 100 pieces of signed juggling promotional material
Sondre Øverby
>
> On 2008-08-19, fakoriginal <f...@juggler.net.nospam.com> wrote:
> >
> > That's something I've never seen in English grammar. If it's Mills' then
> > I'd pronounce that the same as Mills or Mill's. Where are you getting
> > extra letters from to pronounce an additional "es"?
>
> America.
>
> -Paul
What, aren't those in Oxford English too? Are you serious?
IveGotBalls
> I say Mills' the same way as Mill's, so it works for me
>
but it isn't...
/ben/ who is just laughing at the whole arument
Tim from Leeds
You could click on the Fixed Font link at the top of the message if you
want to roll around in the aisles in hysterics without leaving IJDb.
Tim
ErikAberg
>
> ErikAberg wrote:
> > > I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> > > "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is
Mills,
> > > not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
no I didn´t write that, GLF00 did.
Doyen Dean
I still don't understand why such a beautiful and flowing pattern could be
called such names as 'mess' and 'confusion'. When I first learned it I
thought I must be doing something wrong because it felt so SMOOTH, not at
all like a mess. It's still my favorite 3 ball pattern :)
Viveca
the possessive of singular nouns
ending in "s," one considers (drumroll) pronunciation, and when it is
awkward to pronounce an additional
"ez" sound, one doesn't add the "s" after the apostrophe. A very rare case
of an English rule that follows
exactly what is easiest and makes perhaps the most sense.
One reference is here:
http://www.englishrules.com/writing/2005/possessive-form-of-singular-
nouns-ending-with-s.php
When I teach it, I add the corollary that when deciding how to pronounce
such a word, you can just read
it the way it's written, therefore: Mills' Mess is two syllables total,
nice and neat.
Viveca
Sondre Øverby
Where can I read it from other than the IJDB?
Draitube
What I thought
Jay Linn
<sondre_...@sjonglering.com.nospam.com> wrote:
> Where can I read it from other than the IJDB?
Through Google news - http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.juggling/topics
Through a newsreader such as Outlook Express, Thunderbird, Mozilla, Opera.
Through a web based newsfeed -
http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=newsfeeds&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
(or http://tinyurl.com/6435r9 for the line wrap challenged) might have
some links but I can't be bothered to look.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroups probably has some helpful
background, too.
Personally I use Opera, after having persevered with Thunderbird for a
few years and then tired of it's bugs and instability. Opera is not as
fully featured as Tbird, but it's fast and convenient, which is Opera in a
nutshell really.
--
Jay Linn
Reality "is very well known to have a liberal bias" - Conservapedia, The
Trustworthy Encyclopedia.
TK
> Where can I read it from other than the IJDB?
>
>
Use news.motzarella.org - it is free, contains most newsgroups, and
filters a fair amount of spam.
HTH
--
TK
http://wejuggle2.com/
Still Having a Ball
lutkus
> I'm pretty sure that English grammar also says that when you have a
> word/name ending in s (such as Mills) you show it in writing by just
> putting an apostrophe at the end (Mills') but you pronounce it with an
> extra "ez" sound, therefore "Milzez".
If you are really interested in how this works, perhaps you should look up
the rules of grammar about which you are merely "pretty sure".
In the particular case of making a singular word ending in s possessive,
either adding ' alone, or 's are acceptable. The general deciding factor
in which you should use is pronounciation. Thus, one would expect Mills'
to sound like Mills, while Mills's would sound like Millses.
(Of course, since the trick is called "Mills Mess", without any
apostrophe, this would seem to be a moot point.)
For more information on apostrophe usage, this might be a good place to
start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe#Singular_nouns_ending_with_an_.22s.22_or_.22z.22_sound
--
Jeff
lutkus
> Just say "the trick in which both arms cross n uncross n things"
> sounds better
Oh, you mean Boston Mess?
Scott Seltzer
>
> jgl smltr v0 wrote:
> > Just say "the trick in which both arms cross n uncross n things"
> > sounds better
>
> Oh, you mean Boston Mess?
No, Both have the arms cross n uncross but the Boston mess doesn't have
the n things.
-Scott
krista
>
> I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is Mills,
> not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
>
Mills' Mess.
millsmess
it, a group of jugglers in Los Angeles at the 1976 IJA convention
named it after I performed it. I stumbled into it and never knew how
to teach it until much later. I did not even know how strongly it had
caught on until Purchase NY convention. I do feel very fortunate to
have a pattern that is so popular with my name on it.
Just thought I should give some input.
Steve Mills
On Aug 19, 10:51 am, glenlukejugg...@gmail.com.nospam.com (GLF00)
wrote:
> I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is Mills,
> not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
>
> --
> ----== posted viawww.jugglingdb.com==----
Viveca
>
> When I teach it, I add the corollary that when deciding how to pronounce
> such a word, you can just read
> it the way it's written, therefore: Mills' Mess is two syllables total,
> nice and neat.
>
pronounced the same dadblamit.
theOgre
>
> I was thinking, everyone I've heard talk about Mills' Mess says the word
> "Mills'" like "Milz" (including myself). But since Steve's name is Mills,
> not Mill, shouldn't the we pronounce it like "Milzez Mess"?
>
perhaps you should look at it as "The Mills Mess"
as just a name rather than a possession.
ian smith
a surname like 'Pearsons'.... when it becomes a possesive pronoun (etc)
then there is no need to add an extra "ziz"