Juggler, not a clown !

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Stormx

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Apr 29, 2003, 9:41:35 PM4/29/03
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Hi !!

i do not know whether this also happens regulary to you, but when i tell
my friends about my juggling hobbie, they ask me if a am (or want to be)a
CLOWN...??????

Of course, i have nothing against clowns, but in my case, i am attracted
just to juggling, and not to disguise myself to play a clown!! So, that
confussion bothers me a little.

Why do you think there is such association between juggling and clowns,
when both activities are completely different? (tough can be combined,
naturally...). Probably because both are classical circus activities, who
knows...

Juan

----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----

Stu Carter

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Apr 30, 2003, 4:57:30 AM4/30/03
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On 30 Apr 2003, Stormx wrote:

> Why do you think there is such association between juggling and clowns,
> when both activities are completely different? (tough can be combined,
> naturally...). Probably because both are classical circus activities, who
> knows...

Bad jugglers wear a silly costume to hide their lack of talent.*
When I did work for a local entertainer, I used to add a premium to my fee
if he wanted me to dress in a silly costume. The premium was around 400%
of my normal fee. He never made me dress up :o)


*(Controversial sweeping statement, but often true)


Cheers,

Stu


bob dilworth

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Apr 30, 2003, 5:33:24 AM4/30/03
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"Stu Carter" <s...@mini.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.03043...@george.mini.demon.co.uk...

> Bad jugglers wear a silly costume to hide their lack of talent.*

I take exception to this. I am a bad juggler almost void of talent and have
never worn a silly costume. :-)

Bob


Little Paul

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Apr 30, 2003, 7:26:12 AM4/30/03
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Stormx wrote:

> i do not know whether this also happens regulary to you, but when i tell
> my friends about my juggling hobbie, they ask me if a am (or want to be)a
> CLOWN...??????

Doesn't happen to me. But then I'm not a juggler. At least, I
certainly don't go round telling people I am...

> i have nothing against clowns,

You should do, they're evil.

Apart from Ouchy the clown, who in my opinion is the best thing since
the thing that was best thing since sliced bread. (What's so great
about sliced bread anyway? I mean, sure, it's better than whole bread
but not as good as cheese...)

> So, that confussion bothers me a little.

I'd be bothered two if people thought I was a scary freak with bad hair
and a car that falls apart on cue... (hang on.... Hmmm....)

> Why do you think there is such association between juggling and clowns,

The public are stupid. Just accept that and be thankful they didn't
think you were a mime artist.

> when both activities are completely different?

They're not though. They both happen at the circus. Therefore they are
the same activity. As far as Joe Public is concerned, you probably keep
elephants in your back garden.

-Paul

Marco

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Apr 30, 2003, 8:22:04 AM4/30/03
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> i do not know whether this also happens regulary to you, but when i tell
> my friends about my juggling hobbie, they ask me if a am (or want to be)a
> CLOWN...??????

I've the same problem in Italy. A lot of parents say: "hey junior, watch
here the clown!".
Marco


JJuggle

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Apr 30, 2003, 8:03:39 AM4/30/03
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Stormx wrote:

> Why do you think there is such association between juggling and clowns,
> when both activities are completely different?

This is obviously Bob Dylan's fault for indelibly linking the two in 'Like
a Rolling Stone':

You never turned around to see the frowns
On the jugglers and the clowns when they all did tricks for you.

Prior to this it never occured to anyone, I don't believe, that clowning
and juggling could be related.

Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ
- Last of the Dogmato-Revisionists

Greg Phillips

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Apr 30, 2003, 8:50:17 AM4/30/03
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Marco wrote:
> I've the same problem in Italy. A lot of parents say: "hey junior, watch
> here the clown!".

Cool! How do you say that in Italian, just in case I ever visit with my
kids?

Greg

Scott Kurland

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Apr 30, 2003, 9:26:26 AM4/30/03
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<aol> ME2ME2ME2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</aol>

That's kind of fun, in a sick, twisted evil way. I wonder how much a WebTV
costs....

--
"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
-- Seneca


J Craggs

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Apr 29, 2003, 12:22:28 PM4/29/03
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On 30 Apr 2003 12:03:39 GMT, jsn...@aol.com.nospam
(JJuggle) wrote:

>Stormx wrote:
>
>> Why do you think there is such association between juggling and clowns,
>> when both activities are completely different?
>
>This is obviously Bob Dylan's fault for indelibly linking the two in 'Like
>a Rolling Stone':
>
> You never turned around to see the frowns
> On the jugglers and the clowns when they all did tricks for you.

Absolutely, Bob Dylan has a lot to answer
for... I'm still looking for the fabled 'highway of
diamonds with nobody on it', it would be the perfect
place to really thrash (test) a new motorbike. But if
I do find it the weather's bound to be awful. I just
know 'a hard rain's gonna fall...".

Gyppo (feeling 'lyrical')

John Craggs - Writer - Adult Tutor - Storyteller
and All-Round Rogue
Need a laugh? Then subscribe to the free Monday Silly Digest:
mail to: gyp...@ntlworld.com With 'MSD SUB' as subject.

Little Paul

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Apr 30, 2003, 9:31:05 AM4/30/03
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Scott Kurland wrote:
> That's kind of fun, in a sick, twisted evil way. I wonder how much a WebTV
> costs....

I don't know, but you could ask the 10 or so webtv users that have
looked at www.trickswithhats.org over the last month...

-Paul
www.trickswithhats.org - Now with added new stuff

JJuggle

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Apr 30, 2003, 9:42:35 AM4/30/03
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J Craggs wrote:

> Absolutely, Bob Dylan has a lot to answer
> for... I'm still looking for the fabled 'highway of
> diamonds with nobody on it', it would be the perfect
> place to really thrash (test) a new motorbike.

Very likely you've already found it but once there fail to recognize it as
it then becomes a highway of diamonds with one person on it. Open your
eyes man!

juggler133

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Apr 30, 2003, 9:47:20 AM4/30/03
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> Apart from Ouchy the clown, who in my opinion is the best thing since
> the thing that was best thing since sliced bread. (What's so great
> about sliced bread anyway? I mean, sure, it's better than whole bread
> but not as good as cheese...)

I can't testify for Ouchy, but I will certainly buy your comment about
cheese. I believe if cheese were to face sliced bread, or any bread for
that matter, in any contest whatsoever (taste, texture, number of uses,
street fighting, chess, etc.) cheese would win. The only exception
naturally being, The "Which tastes more like bread" contest, in which
cheese still comes close.

J Craggs

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Apr 30, 2003, 11:59:15 AM4/30/03
to
On 30 Apr 2003 13:42:35 GMT, jsn...@aol.com.nospam
(JJuggle) wrote:

>J Craggs wrote:
>
>> Absolutely, Bob Dylan has a lot to answer
>> for... I'm still looking for the fabled 'highway of
>> diamonds with nobody on it', it would be the perfect
>> place to really thrash (test) a new motorbike.
>
>Very likely you've already found it but once there fail to recognize it as
>it then becomes a highway of diamonds with one person on it. Open your
>eyes man!
>
>Raphael Lasar

Damn! All these years spent in search of the
unattainable... Grasshopper bows to the wisdom of the
Master ;-)

Gyppo

Viveca

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Apr 30, 2003, 12:00:20 PM4/30/03
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"Stu Carter" <s...@mini.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.03043...@george.mini.demon.co.uk...

> Bad jugglers wear a silly costume to hide their lack of talent.*

That's true of clowns too. Clowns are funny. People in gaudy costumes who
squeak are just scary.

Viveca


Alan Morgan

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Apr 30, 2003, 12:43:03 PM4/30/03
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In article <3eafc688$1$46130$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,

Greg Phillips <greg.p...@juggler.net.nospam> wrote:
>Marco wrote:
>> I've the same problem in Italy. A lot of parents say: "hey junior, watch
>> here the clown!".
>
>Cool! How do you say that in Italian, just in case I ever visit with my
>kids?

Pretty much the same way. Italian is just English with the arms waved
around a lot.

Alan
--
Defendit numerus

Marco

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Apr 30, 2003, 1:51:37 PM4/30/03
to

>
> Cool! How do you say that in Italian, just in case I ever visit with my
> kids?
>

Clown in italian is "clown" or "pagliaccio".


Liam

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Apr 30, 2003, 2:07:00 PM4/30/03
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In article <3eafd3e8$0$46129$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,
juggl...@unicyclist.com.nospam (juggler133) wrote:

Yeah, but toasted cheese doesn't go well with baked beans.

Liam

Liam

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Apr 30, 2003, 2:07:00 PM4/30/03
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In article <3eaf29ce$0$46130$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,
juan...@hotmail.com.nospam (Stormx) wrote:

Same here - I get really annoyed about that. I tell them that some clowns
juggle, but no jugglers are clowns, if you see what I mean. They call the
juggling club I go to "clown school" and they reckon that because I go to
Clown School, I get 10% off all circus tickets, or something like that!

I say let them have their fun, then show them some videos of Gatto or
other professionals and ask them whether they look like clowns.

Liam

Little Paul

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Apr 30, 2003, 2:32:28 PM4/30/03
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Liam wrote:
> Yeah, but toasted cheese doesn't go well with baked beans.

Erm, what planet are you from? I suggest you get yourself to a grill
and make yourself some cheese on toast. Then heat some baked beans up
and pour them all over the toasted cheese.

Cheesybeans on toast is far superior to it's non cheese related cousin.

For extra flavour, add a small knob of butter (real butter mind, none
of that low fat "i can't beleive it's not full of chemicals" substitue
stuff..) and a large quantity of freshly ground black pepper to the
beans.

perfik.

-Paul

Adria M Moskowitz

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Apr 30, 2003, 2:42:55 PM4/30/03
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Digression ....

When I was a child, I hated clowns. They were miscolored, their
bodies were out of proportion and they flailed scarily in one's face.
They liked to inflict pain on others and laughed at it and, what was
worse, encouraged others to laugh at this person's pain! It was
horrible and cruel.

I learned the history of clowns, and that made it even worse! People
cutting their children's faces (and other body parts) with knives in
order to be able to sell them to a rich person. And that rich person
being allowed to legally abuse them! Just aweful!

As an adult I learned the history of juggling and how respected it has
been throughout the centuries. In my opinion, anyone who confuses the
two should be severely beaten.

Danny Colyer

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Apr 30, 2003, 3:28:00 PM4/30/03
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Little Paul wrote:
> Cheesybeans on toast is far superior to it's non cheese related
> cousin.

Beat me to it (but then you do seem to check rj every 5 minutes
throughout the day, while I only check every couple of hours during the
evening ;-) )

> For extra flavour, add a small knob of butter (real butter mind, none
> of that low fat "i can't beleive it's not full of chemicals" substitue
> stuff..) and a large quantity of freshly ground black pepper to the
> beans.

A dash of Worcestershire Sauce instead of the pepper works very well, I
find. Then for a special treat top off the lot with a couple of poached
eggs.

--
Danny Colyer (remove safety to reply) ( http://www.juggler.net/danny )
Recumbent cycle page: http://www.speedy5.freeserve.co.uk/recumbents/
"He who dares not offend cannot be honest." - Thomas Paine


Scott Kurland

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Apr 30, 2003, 3:37:35 PM4/30/03
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Little Paul wrote:
> Liam wrote:
>> Yeah, but toasted cheese doesn't go well with baked beans.
>
> Erm, what planet are you from? I suggest you get yourself to a grill
> and make yourself some cheese on toast. Then heat some baked beans up
> and pour them all over the toasted cheese.

I think his point was the cheese wouldn't work nearly as well with baked
beans without the sliced bread. ;-)


>
> Cheesybeans on toast is far superior to it's non cheese related
> cousin.
>

> For extra flavor, add a small knob of butter (real butter mind, none
> of that low fat "i can't believe it's not full of chemicals" substitute


> stuff..) and a large quantity of freshly ground black pepper to the
> beans.
>

> perfect.
>
> -Paul

Scott Kurland

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Apr 30, 2003, 3:38:56 PM4/30/03
to
Adria M Moskowitz wrote:
> Digression ....
>
> When I was a child, I hated clowns. They were discolored, their

> bodies were out of proportion and they flailed scarily in one's face.
> They liked to inflict pain on others and laughed at it and, what was
> worse, encouraged others to laugh at this person's pain! It was
> horrible and cruel.
>
> I learned the history of clowns, and that made it even worse! People
> cutting their children's faces (and other body parts) with knives in
> order to be able to sell them to a rich person. And that rich person
> being allowed to legally abuse them! Just awful!

>
> As an adult I learned the history of juggling and how respected it has
> been throughout the centuries. In my opinion, anyone who confuses the
> two should be severely beaten.

If you were feeling really cranky, you could cut their faces and other body
parts with knives and sell and/or abuse them....

Scott Kurland

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Apr 30, 2003, 3:40:06 PM4/30/03
to
Danny Colyer wrote:
> Little Paul wrote:
>> Cheesybeans on toast is far superior to it's non cheese related
>> cousin.
>
> Beat me to it (but then you do seem to check rj every 5 minutes
> throughout the day, while I only check every couple of hours during
> the evening ;-) )
>
>> For extra flavor, add a small knob of butter (real butter mind, none
>> of that low fat "i can't believe it's not full of chemicals"
>> substitute stuff..) and a large quantity of freshly ground black

>> pepper to the beans.
>
> A dash of Worcestershire Sauce instead of the pepper works very well,
> I find. Then for a special treat top off the lot with a couple of
> poached eggs.

Thanks, guys.

Daniel Mitchell

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Apr 30, 2003, 5:21:52 PM4/30/03
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Little Paul <l...@juggler.net> wrote in news:3EB016BA...@juggler.net:

> Erm, what planet are you from? I suggest you get yourself to a grill
> and make yourself some cheese on toast. Then heat some baked beans up
> and pour them all over the toasted cheese.

Better still is to take beans, put in bowl, slice cheese, put on top of
beans, microwave the lot for 3 minutes or so, and the cheese goes all nice
and stringy and stirs into the beans much more interestingly. Then pour
over toast. (and, of _course_, black pepper, yup)

-- (bendy) dan

Scott Kurland

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Apr 30, 2003, 5:48:23 PM4/30/03
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> -- (bendy) Dan

Black beans with jalapenos, pepper jack cheese, a spoonful of 99% (it's a
habanero thing*, do not try this at home)... yeah, sounds like an early
dinner to me. Thanks again, guys.

--
"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
-- Seneca

* Calido Traders Habanero paste, no kidding. It used to wear the three red
kite feathers - champion of champions, death in the guise of, ha, food - but
some of the new contenders are stronger than pure habanero puree - capsaicin
extract, pepper spray for food. Chileheads are insane.
http://calido-indiana.com/ws/1105.html if you want to try it.


Roger W. C. Hansen

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Apr 30, 2003, 5:29:56 PM4/30/03
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In Article <3eaf29ce$0$46130$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,

juan...@hotmail.com.nospam (Stormx) wrote:
>Hi !!
>
>i do not know whether this also happens regulary to you, but when i tell
>my friends about my juggling hobbie, they ask me if a am (or want to be)a
>CLOWN...??????
>
>Of course, i have nothing against clowns, but in my case, i am attracted
>just to juggling, and not to disguise myself to play a clown!! So, that
>confussion bothers me a little.
>
>Why do you think there is such association between juggling and clowns,
>when both activities are completely different? (tough can be combined,
>naturally...). Probably because both are classical circus activities, who
>knows...
>
>Juan
>

First of all, I would like to say that this thread illustrates
much of what is wrong with rec.juggling today. One post which is
at least tentatively related to juggling generated by my count so
far 25 posts. Nearly all of these responces are totally unrelated
to juggling. With this in mind, I will try to set an example. I
will try to respond in a manner related to the question and reflecting,
hopefully, some relevance to juggling.

Nearly every juggler will be asked if he is a clown
eventually. There are two ways of interpreting the question. One
interpretation is "Do you dress or perform as a stereotypical clown?" This
stereotype would involve heavy and exagerated face paint with a
costume as far past riduculous as possible. Another way to consider
the question would be "Do you engage in physical comedy?" or
"Do you Clown around?" Many jugglers who perform do things
that qualify as physical comedy and might be called clowning in
the behavioral sense. When this is well done, it can be very entertaining.
Unfortunately, many clown have obsessed on the face paint and
costume at the expense of the physical comedy. This has resulted
in... shall we generously say, a lot of mediocre clowns. There are
a lot of clowns out there that are all paint and costume and no
clowning. When someone asks if I am a clown, I have to decide what they
mean. If I think they are trying to fit me into the pigeon hole of the
clown stereotype, I say no. In the rare case, when I think they are
asking about physical comedy, I might say yes.

My advise to young jugglers would be to learn what you can about
physical comedy and entertaining from good clowns. Feel free to incorporate
physical comedy into your juggling as needed, but avoid the
stereotype. The best clowns I have seen recently are the clowns on
the Cirque du Soleil Drallion tape. (This is an excellent tape with
Victor Kee's Juggling and acrobatics prominently featured.)
Guess what? They do not dress like sterotypical clowns. You actually
have to watch them for a while to figure out that they are the clowns.
Even the good clowns are abandoning the stereotype.


Greg Phillips

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Apr 30, 2003, 7:50:57 PM4/30/03
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No, no --- the whole thing. "Hey junior, watch here the clown!"

Greg

Viveca

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Apr 30, 2003, 8:24:14 PM4/30/03
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"Roger W. C. Hansen" <han...@src.wisc.edu> wrote in message
news:hansen.14...@news.doit.wisc.edu...

> In Article <3eaf29ce$0$46130$bed6...@news.gradwell.net>,
> juan...@hotmail.com.nospam (Stormx) wrote:
> >Hi !!
> >
> >i do not know whether this also happens regulary to you, but when i tell
> >my friends about my juggling hobbie, they ask me if a am (or want to be)a
> >CLOWN...??????
> >
><snip> >

> First of all, I would like to say that this thread illustrates
> much of what is wrong with rec.juggling today.

And I thought you were going to say that what's wrong here is that people
with non-juggling friends are apparently allowed to post.

Viveca
V
5


jugglingwonder

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Apr 30, 2003, 8:34:55 PM4/30/03
to

With my limited spanish 1 knowledge, i have to say my most hated word is
"payaso," meaning clown. During easter break i went to mexico for a
missions trip. During a break I juggled a little and a tiny kid, i'm sure
he's a decent fellow, deep... deep down inside, yet... he comes up and
says, "payaso, payaso!" and i say no! no soy un payaso! then i stop.
As a sidenote, I think that jugglers should just expect the uncultured and
uneducated world to keep asking us these same repetitive questions, such
as, "are you a clown?" (insert shudder), "are you in the circus or
something?" (insert sigh), and the most famous one, "Can you eat an apple
and juggle at the SAME TIME?" (insert scream of terror).
It builds a kind of extreme patience; if we can handle that, we can take
anything.

Stephen Bent

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Apr 30, 2003, 9:12:09 PM4/30/03
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"Liam" <joeb...@hotmail.fake.com> wrote

> I say let them have their fun, then show them some videos of Gatto or
> other professionals and ask them whether they look like clowns.

Gatto? I'm thinking more along the lines of Garfield.

-Stephen


Stephen Bent

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Apr 30, 2003, 9:13:02 PM4/30/03
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"Marco" <theoran...@NOSPAMlibero.it> wrote

> Clown in italian is "clown" or "pagliaccio".

Really? There's a great pizza place where I live called "Pagliacci's". Is there a connection? If I juggle, can I
get free pizza?

-Stephen


Charlie

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May 1, 2003, 4:43:43 AM5/1/03
to
On Wed, 30 Apr 03 21:29:56 GMT, han...@src.wisc.edu (Roger W. C.
Hansen) wrote:

>> First of all, I would like to say that this thread illustrates
>much of what is wrong with rec.juggling today.

I agree and suggest the reintroduction of compulsory army training
would sort these people out. I have reported all participants to the
Usenet Police. Thankyou Roger for your sensible words and for failing
to be distracted by cheese, beans, worcestershire sauce (that's
pronounced 'worcester') or even Marmite, which previous posters failed
to mention.

Charlie

bob dilworth

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May 1, 2003, 5:25:03 AM5/1/03
to

"Charlie" <charlie...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8cn1bvk1q09dkfhkf...@4ax.com...

> Thankyou Roger for your sensible words and for failing
> to be distracted by cheese, beans, worcestershire sauce (that's
> pronounced 'worcester') or even Marmite, which previous posters failed
> to mention.

And for any non-english speakers, worcester is pronounced wuster.

Bob


Little Paul

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May 1, 2003, 6:01:41 AM5/1/03
to
Charlie wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Apr 03 21:29:56 GMT, han...@src.wisc.edu (Roger W. C.
> Hansen) wrote:
>
>>> First of all, I would like to say that this thread illustrates
>>> much of what is wrong with rec.juggling today.
>
> I agree

May I refer the right honourable gentlemen to the archives. I think
on closer inspection you'll find the word "today" to be completely
redundant.

RJ has certainly been like this the 7 or so years I've been reading
it...

A quick search of the archives reveals 154 matches for "toast" so it's
actually quite a popular subject here. (By comparison a search for
"slack rope" turns up 153 hits, which in my book makes toast more
juggling related than standing on a bit of string...)

The first mention of toast on rec.juggling is in relation to weight loss
and is at *least* as tenuously linked to juggling as clowning is.

http://www.jugglingdb.com/news/article.php?id=%3C1992Jul27....@m2xenix.psg.com%3E

for the thread in question from back in 1992.

> and suggest the reintroduction of compulsory army training
> would sort these people out. I have reported all participants to the
> Usenet Police.

They'll never find me...

*adjusts his tinfoil hat*

> Thankyou Roger for your sensible words and for failing
> to be distracted by cheese, beans, worcestershire sauce (that's
> pronounced 'worcester') or even Marmite, which previous posters failed
> to mention.

Well, the marmite was implied. What fool would make cheese on toast
without marmite?

-Paul

Little Paul

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May 1, 2003, 6:15:22 AM5/1/03
to
Danny Colyer wrote:
> Beat me to it (but then you do seem to check rj every 5 minutes
> throughout the day, while I only check every couple of hours during the
> evening ;-) )

The joys of having an nntp feed at work... (And yes, I do use it for
work related stuff too :-)

Mind you, it does mean if it's the weekend, or i'm on holiday, I miss
out on loads of stuff...

> A dash of Worcestershire Sauce instead of the pepper works very well,

True.

> Then for a special treat top off the lot with a couple of poached
> eggs.

Done properly in a saucepan mind... none of this microwaving nonsense.

-Paul

Charlie

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May 1, 2003, 6:33:52 AM5/1/03
to
On Thu, 1 May 2003 10:01:41 GMT, Little Paul <l...@juggler.net> wrote:

>> Thankyou Roger for your sensible words and for failing
>> to be distracted by cheese, beans, worcestershire sauce (that's
>> pronounced 'worcester') or even Marmite, which previous posters failed
>> to mention.
>
>Well, the marmite was implied. What fool would make cheese on toast
>without marmite?

Ah, and I forgot to mention the small sprinkling of chili powder, and
a dusting of fresh basil. A meal fit for a king!

Charlie

JJuggle

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May 1, 2003, 8:24:45 AM5/1/03
to

Is this how Americans will behave in, say 2075 or so, after the fall of
the American Empire (read: United States of America Empire) when all we
are left with is our feeling of superiority without the actual superiority?

;)

Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ
- Last of the Dogmato-Revisionists

Richard Moorman

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May 1, 2003, 10:30:32 AM5/1/03
to
han...@src.wisc.edu (Roger W. C. Hansen) wrote in message news:<hansen.14...@news.doit.wisc.edu>...

>
> Even the good clowns are abandoning the stereotype.

What, those pretentious French wankers who think they're better than
the rest of us because they project talent, style, grace, wit, pathos,
elegance and intelligence to the wonderment of the crowd, while we sit
giggling at Ouchy's web page?

Bastards!

Sincerely yours,
Wrapping Myself in the Flag and Bellowing Bombastic Piety

Scott Seltzer

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May 1, 2003, 2:47:59 PM5/1/03
to
Raphael Lasar wrote:
> Is this how Americans will behave in, say 2075 or so, after the fall of
> the American Empire (read: United States of America Empire) when all we
> are left with is our feeling of superiority without the actual superiority?

I thought that this was hilarious!

But then I thought about something I have noticed and have been meaning to
write about for a long time: Until a few years ago, the best juggling web
sites were American (JIS, Boppo, JAG, Andrew Conway, Nathan Hoover, etc.)
but none of those have changed significantly in the past few years (or
have disappeared). And the best sites (IJDb, Luke's Thing, LAP,
trickswithhats, and others) are from the UK...

And let's look at jugglers. Yeah, Gatto and Garfield are still American.
But Boppo and Sarafian seem to have been replaced by Burrage, Beever, and
Bone. Toby Walker and probably others seems to be representing the UK
pretty well, too.

Someone in the know could probably go on with items such as: conventions,
performers, juggling shops, etc.

-Scott

Danny Colyer

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May 1, 2003, 4:17:19 PM5/1/03
to
Roger W. C. Hansen complained:

> First of all, I would like to say that this thread illustrates
> much of what is wrong with rec.juggling today. One post which is
> at least tentatively related to juggling ...

Ahem. I would point out that my first post referred to eggs, which are
*always* relevant to juggling.

Danny Colyer

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May 1, 2003, 4:21:22 PM5/1/03
to
Little Paul wrote:
> RJ has certainly been like this the 7 or so years I've been reading
> it...

I don't remember it being quite so wibbly when I first started reading
it 10 years ago. But once "How do I improve my 5 ball pattern" and "How
do I do 4 ball MM" have been done to death, one's attention turns to
slightly less obviously juggling related matters. Like "What's the best
food to eat at conventions, beans with toast or beans with cheese?".
And convention catering matters are important to all jugglers.

Also, of course, a decay into irrelevancy was more or less inevitable
once LP started posting :-P

Danny Colyer

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May 1, 2003, 4:24:01 PM5/1/03
to
I suggested:

> > Then for a special treat top off the lot with a couple of poached
> > eggs.

leading LP to comment:


> Done properly in a saucepan mind... none of this microwaving nonsense.

I respectfully disagree. I find that my microwave egg poacher produces
far superior results to doing it the old-fashioned way (although it's a
bugger to wash up, and is only in 2 parts so could be used for poi but
not for juggling).

Boiled eggs are another matter, though. Microwaved boiled eggs are
'orrible. But I did have 2 microwave egg boilers, in 2 parts each, so
they were at least juggleable.

JJuggle

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May 1, 2003, 7:05:46 PM5/1/03
to

Scott,

I think this only goes to my point. Afterall, while we Americans are busy
empire building what are they busy doing? Well take a look, tagging along
and building juggling websites with stuff about parasols and interviews
with French women!

Raphael Lasar
Matawan, NJ
- Last of the Dogmato-Revisionists

----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----

Stephen Bent

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May 2, 2003, 12:26:33 AM5/2/03
to

"Scott Seltzer" <sc...@juggler.net.nospam> wrote in message news:3eb16bdf$0$46129$bed6...@news.gradwell.net...

> And let's look at jugglers. Yeah, Gatto and Garfield are still American.
> But Boppo and Sarafian seem to have been replaced by Burrage, Beever, and
> Bone. Toby Walker and probably others seems to be representing the UK
> pretty well, too.

How could you not mention Vova and Olga? On the other hand, the Flying K's are from the US, and they are by far
the coolest jugglers anywhere, any time.

-Stephen


Jay Linn

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May 2, 2003, 5:19:31 AM5/2/03
to
"JJuggle" <jsn...@aol.com.nospam> wrote in message
news:3eb1a84a$0$46131$bed6...@news.gradwell.net...

<snip>

> I think this only goes to my point. Afterall, while we Americans are busy
> empire building what are they busy doing?

Where once the Old World trod, the New will surely follow. Great
Britain has considerable experience of building, and then losing, an empire.
An older, wiser nation now prefers only to build a dynasty of great
jugglers.

Scott's remark about the renaissance of British juggling is right on
the money, isn't it? Although r.j enjoys the company of many great talents
from all over Europe and beyond, it's the UK that seems to be the hothouse
of over-achievers at the moment. Of course, if you were to ask a Brit why
this is, you might well be told that it is a product of our defiantly
amateur attitudes to the process of learning to juggle - few Brits seem to
contribute to the frequent r.j threads about the minutiae of practice
regimens, for example.

But I'm not sure that attitudes here are entirely responsible. The
recent BJC got roughly 800 registrations [1], yet just ten years ago, BJCs
were generating something like 2,000+ registrations [2], and consequently
today's juggling scene in the UK enjoys the benefit of having distilled the
best talent from a larger pool over the last few years.

What I find particularly curious is the astonishing talent of some
people who don't seem to try particularly hard : Luke Burrage is a very fine
talent, but I'm not sure he is a true great, despite his eye-boggling
achievements. My gut feeling is that Luke has raised the bar several
notches, but soon someone truly great will come along and show us all that
Luke was just dabbling. Ben Beever's achievements at the highest numbers,
and his fantastic practical and theoretical grasp of site swap, are all the
more amazing when you consider that he is strictly an amateur who, as I
understand it, rarely ever performs, and then generally before his peers.
And Toby Walker seemingly enjoyed a nurturing juggling environment
throughout his youth, but that alone cannot account for his precocious
brilliance.

Which leaves me only one conclusion - it's the beer. Cheers!

[1] I don't really remember the figure, but I think that is a near enough
estimate.
[2] Again, I don't really know, but I believe this number to be there or
thereabouts. Perhaps mini can furnish some data.

--
Jay Linn

Musings. Actual facts may vary.


mini mansell

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May 2, 2003, 5:38:51 AM5/2/03
to
> [2] Again, I don't really know, but I believe this number to be there
or
> thereabouts. Perhaps mini can furnish some data.
>
> --
> Jay Linn
>


coventry was the largest ever BJC, yup numbers where over 2000.

The uk, at that time though was going through a Juggling Craze.

i actually had my first ever paying juggling gig back then. working in a
local chemists displaying "more balls then most" juggling balls

Jay Linn

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May 2, 2003, 5:44:00 AM5/2/03
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"mini mansell" <mi...@juggler.net> wrote in message
news:M0rsa.1409$LQ2....@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net...

<snip>

> i actually had my first ever paying juggling gig back then. working in a
> local chemists displaying "more balls then most" juggling balls

Arghhh!!!

<runs screaming in shame>

I did that gig, too, at f*cking Boots in f*cking Leicester, three
Saturdays in a row, just before Christmas. I think they paid about GBP40 a
day. Tightwads.

--
Jay Linn

The Chiefs of Staff have issued a new deck of cards.
Mötörhead have run for the hills.


Little Paul

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May 2, 2003, 5:48:36 AM5/2/03
to
Jay Linn wrote:

> What I find particularly curious is the astonishing talent of some
> people who don't seem to try particularly hard : Luke Burrage is a very fine
> talent, but I'm not sure he is a true great, despite his eye-boggling
> achievements.

He probably has the potential to be great if he took it "seriously" but
we wouldn't want that now would we...

> Ben Beever's achievements at the highest numbers,
> and his fantastic practical and theoretical grasp of site swap, are all the
> more amazing when you consider that he is strictly an amateur who, as I
> understand it, rarely ever performs, and then generally before his peers.

Perhaps his acheivements are *because* he doesn't perform and therefore
isn't constrained by thoughts of "what's commercial" which no doubt
limits the ammount of time available to work on this stuff.

*shrugs* I don't know, and to be honest... I couldn't care less.

> And Toby Walker seemingly enjoyed a nurturing juggling environment
> throughout his youth, but that alone cannot account for his precocious
> brilliance.

Isn't Luke Wilson (of http://lukaluka.com/eoccj/ fame) also a Brit?
He's a bit good too... and certainly one of the most creative performers
I can think of.

We Rock!

> Which leaves me only one conclusion - it's the beer. Cheers!