plastic balls, again
Hydrophidian
plastic balls so, I'm now trying to find out more information on diy
plastic moulding at home and making my own plastic balls. I was
wondering if anyone here has had the same idea or, has tried this or,
would even have any advise for someone wanting to venture toward this
sort of project.
I am very determined to find a way to aquire large numbers of plastic
balls and if I can't find anyone to make them for me, I am prepared to
make them myself. I have contacted many ball manufacturers and they
all tell me that they don't make them like I want them, even though
they're product descriptions would suggest otherwise.
I'm looking for hollow plastic balls in 2.25",2.5",2.75",3.0",and
3.25", and in many colors. The ball should have a shell that is no
thinner than 1/8" but, no thicker than 1/4". I would prefer a ball
with a bit of flex to it but, that isn't really that important right
now. I am looking for a supplier to be able to provide regular orders
of 100+balls or the means to produce this many myself. I'm inbetween
jobs right now and if this project could take off, it would be my full
time job.
I've looked at different companies that sell stage balls in bulk but,
not for less than $5 per ball.
Thanks
-Rico
Little Paul
> I'm looking for hollow plastic balls in 2.25",2.5",2.75",3.0",and
> 3.25", and in many colors. The ball should have a shell that is no
> thinner than 1/8" but, no thicker than 1/4". I would prefer a ball
> with a bit of flex to it but, that isn't really that important right
> now. I am looking for a supplier to be able to provide regular orders
> of 100+balls or the means to produce this many myself. I'm inbetween
> jobs right now and if this project could take off, it would be my full
> time job.
To produce balls to that spec your self is going to involve investing
in something like a blow moulding machine, and appropriate molds. This
cost is likely to be sufficiently high that you'll need to make (and
sell) thousands, possibly tens or hundreds of thousands of balls to
make the cost back.
If you're between jobs, the only way you're going to raise the
cash you need is with a sizeable business start up loan. Draw up
a business plan, and go get some advice. I don't know about the
US, but in the UK there are loads of organisations you can approach
to help you get a new business off the ground - banks included - but
you'll have to jump in fully with both feet.
> I've looked at different companies that sell stage balls in bulk but,
> not for less than $5 per ball.
Stage balls do sound as though they'll have exactly the properties
you require. I think you'll find that the price *will* come down
below $5 if you buy in *bulk* - note that "100 balls" is nowhere
near *bulk*
Other avenues you may wish to explore:
- Toy manufacturers
- Sporting goods manufacturers
- Plastic molding companies
- Industrial engineering prototyping companies
The toy/sports manufacturers are probably the least uesful option
as if they don't already make what you want, they won't re-tool their
manufacturing plant to make it for you.
The plastic molding companies are probably a much better bet, but
you'll probably have to pay for the molds - which will be a significant
capital investment - but at least you won't have to pay for the
plant. Also, small production runs (eg 100 balls per mould) are
likely to be expensive.
If you go down that route, I'd suggest using a local firm as during
the tooling up phase it'll be much easier to get your hands on
a prototype and talk to them to refine it into what you're actually
after.
Remember, doing this stuff face to face is best, telephone is
second best, leaving it to email is likely to cause miscommunication
and expensive mistakes unless you're *very* specific about what
you want, can provide CAD drawings, and know enough about
plastics to be able to specify *exactly* the material you want.
I doubt that getting the balls manufactured for you will be any
cheaper than getting beard/dube/henrys to sell you stage balls
until you're dealing in the thousands, or tens of thousands of
balls.
Another option you might want to explore, is to prototype whatever
it is you want to make out of a stage ball, and then show it to
a couple of juggling manufacturers (carefully chosen, and with
legally binding NDA's if you feel that's needed) and ask them
if they're interested in helping you to bring the product to
market.
Whatever you do though, if you want it to take off and become
your major source of income, get some advice from the business world.
rec.jugglers (myself included) will always be willing to offer
advice, and we generally mean well, but we're not always the best
placed people to give advice on business or manufacturing. The
advice offered here is worth exactly what you paid for it.
Specific jugglers who you may want to talk to include:
Dave Spotlight (www.juggle-store.com)
Gregg (www.beard.co.uk)
Brian Dube (www.dube.com)
Davide (www.playjuggling.com)
The Raspyni Brothers (www.volcanoball.com)
The fisrt four are all retailers who also manufacture, they all
happen to produce moulded balls of one sort or another so should
be well aware of the options available to you.
The Raspyni's brought the volcano ball to the public and therefore
may be good people to ask about the process of bringing a new
product to market.
Lastly...
Good luck!
Seriously!
-Paul
Hydrophidian
I've found a couple of places that will work for the time being.
I am, as some of you may have guessed, going into the russian ball
business. I greatly prefer the russian style ball and know several
other people that like them as well but, there isn't really anyone
making them. I think that, if they were more available to try/buy
that, more people would use them. Vladik's page says that they're
available but, I've heard that they aren't taking orders anymore. SilX
are close but, not really the same thing.
I've made many russian style balls out of ball pit balls and they work
but, they're pretty much disposable. They fall apart if you leave them
in a hot car or ,god forbid, step on one. I've tried using wiffle
baseballs without holes and they're okay but, you have to wrap them in
colored tape to get colored balls. Tennis balls suck. racquetteballs
suck. I've tried almost everything and nothing that I've found can
compare to the visibility and durability of a good stage ball.
Like I said, I have found a couple of places that can provide me with
working prototypes. In time, I'd like to personalize them with a brand
name or logo but, for now, these will have to work. For anyone
interested, I'll be at the Fort Wayne Indiana juggling festival this
saturday (9/29/07) with a bunch of the new russians. I'll have orange,
red, and pink to try out. I may even be selling some. If I get enough
made, I may donate a set to the raffle.
Thanks for all of the advice, Paul. If anyone else has any ideas to
share, I'd love to hear them.
-Rico
lolpwn3d
I was at Wal-mart yesterday and they have the balls for a kids play hut
thing.(im not sure what its called but heres what it is
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4921746)
You can buy the balls for it separately, they were 100 balls for $9.99.
That makes them 10 cents a ball if this is what your looking for.
--
----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
Brian Fahs
"Hydrophidian" <hydrop...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1190890268.2...@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
So where do the Russians get them?
Nathan Otis
lolpwn3d wrote:
> I was at Wal-mart yesterday and they have the balls for a kids play hut
> thing.(im not sure what its called but heres what it is
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4921746)
>
> You can buy the balls for it separately, they were 100 balls for $9.99.
> That makes them 10 cents a ball if this is what your looking for.
Interesting. From the description, I pictured "ball-pit" balls, too. I
was going to jokingly suggest getting caught up on your vaccinations
(ball-pits are cess pools), going to a McDonalds, hopping in a stuffing
your pockets!
n.
TraxxasJedi
>
>
> I was at Wal-mart yesterday and they have the balls for a kids play hut
> thing.(im not sure what its called but heres what it is
> http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4921746)
>
> You can buy the balls for it separately, they were 100 balls for $9.99.
> That makes them 10 cents a ball if this is what your looking for.
>
>
>
Those balls are the ones that are "disposable". Rico made me a set, and
they're awesome to juggle, but if you do happen to step on one it will
either a. explode and be useless or b. "deflate" and be a deformed bit of
plastic with salt inside, which is a real pain to make usable again (yes,
I have done it). They have very thin walls (maybe 1/16 inch?), which is
why he specified 1/8-1/4 inch walls.
Dave Altman
> Those balls are the ones that are "disposable". Rico made me a set, and
> they're awesome to juggle, but if you do happen to step on one it will
> either a. explode and be useless or b. "deflate" and be a deformed bit of
> plastic with salt inside, which is a real pain to make usable again (yes,
> I have done it). They have very thin walls (maybe 1/16 inch?), which is
> why he specified 1/8-1/4 inch walls.
Reinventing the ball seems like reinventing the wheel. But, if the walls
are too thin, you could drill a small hole, which you need to do to fill
it anyway. Pour a liquid glue or plastic which will harden. Shake the ball
to get an even coating, then pour out any extra. Does this sound like it
would work?
Greg Phillips
> Reinventing the ball seems like reinventing the wheel. But, if the walls
> are too thin, you could drill a small hole, which you need to do to fill
> it anyway. Pour a liquid glue or plastic which will harden. Shake the ball
> to get an even coating, then pour out any extra. Does this sound like it
> would work?
Not likely. It would be extremely difficult to get the added liquid glue
or plastic uniform on the inside and it wouldn't likely bond well to
plastic wall itself---so it wouldn't actually make the ball any stronger.
You could experiment, but I wouldn't hold out much hope.
Greg
Drew_Ministry
>
> On 2007-09-27, Hydrophidian <hydrop...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> in something like a blow moulding machine, and appropriate molds.
Rotational moulding machine
It's Him
>
>
> To produce balls to that spec your self is going to involve investing
> in something like a blow moulding machine, and appropriate molds. This
> cost is likely to be sufficiently high that you'll need to make (and
> sell) thousands, possibly tens or hundreds of thousands of balls to
> make the cost back.
>
quoted £7000 for the mould. The cost of production of the plate itself was
less than £1 each. If you wish to do different size balls that means
several different moulds.
> Specific jugglers who you may want to talk to include:
>
> Dave Spotlight (www.juggle-store.com)
> Gregg (www.beard.co.uk)
Gregg gets some of his items produced in third world countries which have
cheaper labour costs and therefore can produce your mould for about half
the price of one in the UK.
> Brian Dube (www.dube.com)
> Davide (www.playjuggling.com)
> The Raspyni Brothers (www.volcanoball.com)
>
>> Lastly...
>
> Good luck!
>
> Seriously!
>
> -Paul
>
Seconded
Nigel
gantenbein
I found street hockey balls work reasonably well (and it looks like
jugglers have used sandfilled street hockey balls for decades). Granted
they don't come in many sizes and the walls are a tiny little bit too
thick which diminishes the 'russian ball effect'.
In case get started making and selling durable russians would you ship
overseas as well? Have you any idea about pricing yet? I'd be interested.
Good luck with your project!
Steffen
Drew_Ministry
>
> On 2007-09-27, Drew_Ministry <Dr...@ministryofmanipulation.com.nospam.com>
wrote:
> > Little Paul wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2007-09-27, Hydrophidian <hydrop...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> in something like a blow moulding machine, and appropriate molds.
> >
> > Rotational moulding machine
>
>
> -Paul
>
lol!!1!