Almost a definition
Alan Mackenzie
Juggling is an activity usually performed by a person standing on the
floor (a,b) for fun (c) consisting of the skillful (d) manipulation by
his/her muscles, either directly or indirectly through inert instruments
(e) of objects (f) moving under the influence of gravity (g).
NOTES
(a) This doesn't rule out animals or robots as jugglers.
(b) Juggling on a unicycle is juggling. But the riding of a unicycle, of
itself, or piloting a glider are respectively acrobatics and
aeronautics.
(c) either the juggler's or an audience's. Club swinging is juggling,
(it's purely for fun) but swinging a baton to conduct traffic or an
orchestra isn't ;-)
(d) No need to precisely state how skillful. Throwing and catching a
single ball wouldn't be juggling for a cricketer, but would for a
three year old child. A three ball cascade always counts as skillful
here.
(e) Devil sticking and Diaboloing and yoyoing (sp??), yes; (I disagree
with Martin Frost here!) Playing pinball, no!
(f) The manipulation of _people_ is acrobatics, that of _animals_ is
abuse!
(g) Solving a Rubik cube can be done in zero gravity, or even on a
computer. A computer simulation of juggling, on the other hand, is
just a simulation.
This definition doesn't _quite_ work. I don't think kite flying is
juggling, yet it conforms to the above definition. I can't work out how
to exclude it.
And just before anyone starts digging the archives, I freely admit I
scorned the idea of such a definition a wee while back. Now let's have
it!
--
Alan Mackenzie (Munich, Germany)
Email: ayes...@emmyousee.deeeee; to decode, replace "aye" by 'a', "see"
by 'c', etc.
Cubby
Alan Mackenzie<no...@all.de> wrote:
> Try this for size:
<snip juggling definition>
>
> This definition doesn't _quite_ work. I don't think kite flying is
> juggling, yet it conforms to the above definition. I can't work out
how
> to exclude it.
Don't exclude kite flying, call it contact juggling ;-) I've seen five
stunt kites being manuplated by a single individual to do showers and
fountains.
I'm just a newbie to this group and I'm sure it's been debated in the
past, (no flames please) but for the life of me I don't see how club
swinging, in itself, counts. It can be done in zero gravity.
Also wouldn't bounce balls in zero gravity be considered juggling?
-Cubby
--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--
---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.---
Jerry Carson
Juggling is the art of doind what doesn't need to be done in the
most diffcult manner possible. :-)
More seriously, (but still not very) how about "Juggling is manipulating
more unconnected items than body parts used to manipulate said items"
Unfortunately this rules out diabolos unless you're doing two or more, or
only using one hand.
Jerry Carson
Alan Mackenzie <no...@all.de> wrote in <ijb9h7...@acm.acm>:
> This definition doesn't _quite_ work. I don't think kite flying is
> juggling, yet it conforms to the above definition. I can't work out
> how
> to exclude it.
>
Jay Linn
Alan Mackenzie wrote in message ...
>Try this for size:
>
>Juggling is.....
<snipped the blah>
When I'm running workshops, I often come across the problem of kids who
simply refuse to make things difficult for themselves. It is vrey common for
kids to come up to me saying "look mister, I can juggle", who will then
proceed to shower two balls. I have now started telling such cases that for
a juggle to be 'proper', it must involve more objects than hands, which is
of course easily demonstrable with two in one hand and the regular cascade.
I don't believe that this has made one iota of difference to any of my kids,
but I think its not a bad definition of toss juggling.
Jay.
Chris Emerson
Jerry Carson <jerry...@ameritech.net> wrote:
> I still like this one:
>
> Juggling is the art of doind what doesn't need to be done in the
> most diffcult manner possible. :-)
But "not juggling" is one of the most difficult things to do that I've
found - does that make it juggling? :-)
> More seriously, (but still not very) how about "Juggling is manipulating
> more unconnected items than body parts used to manipulate said items"
> Unfortunately this rules out diabolos unless you're doing two or more, or
> only using one hand.
Also rules out bouncing a ball on your head, which I'd call juggling.
Chris
--
Chris Emerson, obsessed Cambridge juggler
E-mail: ceme...@chiark.greenend.org.uk
Web page: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~cemerson/
Mr A.R.Moran
>simply refuse to make things difficult for themselves. It is vrey common for
>kids to come up to me saying "look mister, I can juggle", who will then
>proceed to shower two balls. I have now started telling such cases that for
>a juggle to be 'proper', it must involve more objects than hands, which is
>of course easily demonstrable with two in one hand and the regular cascade.
>I don't believe that this has made one iota of difference to any of my kids,
>but I think its not a bad definition of toss juggling.
I used to just tell them not to bother me unless they could do 2
with one hand behind their back (only the 2 ballers who were being
disruptive), that provoked a few interesting reactions :>
I must admit that there may not be a complete definition of
juggling available (at least not one you'd want to use)
--
Mr A.R.Moran | Natrual stupidty, the ruling factor of my job
Jack Boyce
ceme...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Chris Emerson) wrote:
> Also rules out bouncing a ball on your head, which I'd call juggling.
Unless there are 21 other people standing around, in which case it's
soccer (or football for those of you who can actually play it).
I think an unbiased outside observer would define juggling as the art of
picking things up off the ground, since that is what we spend the majority
of our time doing.
More seriously (I mean it), it seems as though juggling is one thing which
must be defined by describing the intent, rather than the action itself.
To juggle is to manipulate something for the primary purpose of visual
effect.
Jack Boyce
Scott Seltzer
>More seriously (I mean it), it seems as though juggling is one thing which
>must be defined by describing the intent, rather than the action itself.
>To juggle is to manipulate something for the primary purpose of visual
>effect.
>
>Jack Boyce
I liked this definition based on intent for much of the weekend but I've
come to reject it. There is the problem of a cascade that isn't intended. A
simple example is tossing some balls in the air so a child can't get them.
The primary purpose is to keep the balls away from an obnoxious kid, but I'm
undeniably juggling a cascade.
I guess the name of the thread is "Almost..." so I'll shut up now.
-Scott
Check out my juggling home page: http://www.juggling.org/~scott.seltzer/
ICQ Number 7645629
Change "NoSpam" to "Juggler" to send email
Jack Boyce
<NoS...@ligatureltd.com> wrote:
> Jack Boyce wrote in message ...
> >More seriously (I mean it), it seems as though juggling is one thing which
> >must be defined by describing the intent, rather than the action itself.
> >To juggle is to manipulate something for the primary purpose of visual
> >effect.
>
> I liked this definition based on intent for much of the weekend but I've
> come to reject it. There is the problem of a cascade that isn't intended. A
> simple example is tossing some balls in the air so a child can't get them.
> The primary purpose is to keep the balls away from an obnoxious kid, but I'm
> undeniably juggling a cascade.
Other examples in the same vein would be combat, or joggling, or that
volleyball-like game. Obviously the intent is to snuff out your
opponents. Are these juggling? One might call them sports of their own
(and not juggling per se). While I could linger for pages on the
philosophical underpinnings of joggling, how about:
Take two:
To juggle is to perform a physical act of object manipulation, created for
the primary purpose of visual effect.
Your mean little keep-away game would be juggling by this definition (as
would joggling, regrettably) since in the cascade you are performing an
act which was originally created for the purpose of visual effect, even
though you aren't using it in that way. This definition treats juggling
as an immutable property of an action, but brings in the matter of intent.
I suppose someone won't like this one either. I just have one question
for you people: why can't you all just agree with me for once?
Jack Boyce
JAG
">" in article <jboyce-1605...@agate.berkeley.edu> dated Sun,
16 May 1999 13:07:37 -0700
>I suppose someone won't like this one either. I just have one question
>for you people: why can't you all just agree with me for once?
Ok, we agree that someone won't like that one either.
...JAG
Tr...@email.fake
Jerry Carson <jerry...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>More seriously, (but still not very) how about "Juggling is manipulating
>more unconnected items than body parts used to manipulate said items"
>Unfortunately this rules out diabolos unless you're doing two or more, or
>only using one hand.
And I believe it rules out patterns like 501.
Trog Woolley
(A Croweater languishing in Pommie Land)
Isis Astarte Diana Hecate Demeter Kali Inanna
Martin Frost me at stanford edu
> Take two:
>
> To juggle is to perform a physical act of object manipulation, created for
> the primary purpose of visual effect.
Then painting (e.g., painting a portrait of someone) would be juggling. (;-(
Jay Linn
Tr...@email.fake wrote in message <374135ed.6183442@externalXnews>...
.sig file
Jay Linn
Oops! A bit too quick on the send button. Must stop operating Outlook with
the joy stick.
.sig file copyright Sarah Jewell, by any chance?
Jay.
Tr...@email.fake
>>Isis Astarte Diana Hecate Demeter Kali Inanna
>>
>
>Oops! A bit too quick on the send button. Must stop operating Outlook with
>the joy stick.
>
>.sig file copyright Sarah Jewell, by any chance?
It's the wytches chant by Inkubus Sukkubus.
null...@earthling.net
Way too complicated Alan! I have a much better definition:
- What we do at the club on Wednesday nights.
This has the benefits of including clubs, balls, diabolos,
rings, unicycle, tea drinking, throwing things at each other's
heads, standing in the kitchen gossiping and
pushing people off snakeboards.
--
============================ G.S.Sinclair ====
==="If I have two beans, and then I add two more
beans, what do I have?"========================
Alan Mackenzie
You (null...@earthling.net) wrote:
> Way too complicated Alan! I have a much better definition:
> - What we do at the club on Wednesday nights.
Not quite right: What _you_ do at the club on Wednesday nights, or
what _I_ _used_ to do at the club on Wednesday nights. ;-(
> This has the benefits of including clubs, balls, diabolos,
> rings, .....
Who, as a matter of interest?
> .... unicycle, tea drinking, throwing things at each other's
> heads, standing in the kitchen gossiping and
> pushing people off snakeboards.
To say nothing of regular gladiators!
> ==="If I have two beans, and then I add two more
> beans, what do I have?"========================
Six beans! Ha!
All the best to all the best in G!