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How We Used To Rec Dot Juggle

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luke burrage

Jul 7, 2001, 10:48:41 AM7/7/01
Hello, my name is William Williamson. Welcome to the new show, broadcasting
live direct to your computer via Channel RJ:

How We Used To Rec Dot Juggle

Rec.juggling has been on air for over 10 years now, longer than most of us have
even known how to switch a computer on. In this time, there have been hundreds
of thousands messages posted by jugglers and today, we are going to look at
some of those very messages!

The 10 messages picked today are all from this very day, July 7th. Each will be
shown and then our panel of juggling celebrities will add their comments and
discuss them live!

On with our first year of 1991.
There were only two messages posted on this day, here is the second:

Date: Sun, 07 Jul 91 14:01:05 EDT
From: "Erik Levin" <clxazzc@buacca>
Subject: diagnostics fix for Allen Knutson's site swap animator
To: jugglen@indycms

It was previosly noted that the diagnostics don't work on the site swap
animator as it was posted. To fix:

in function main:

replace lines:
patfin = argc - 1;
if (diagnos)
patst = 2;
if (diagnos)
patfin = argc - 1;

delete line: diagnos = 0;

the first block is about 25 lines into main, and the line to delete
is about 55 lines in.

This may look shakey to non-C programmers, but it is (fairly) common
practice. If you want to force diagnostics to a printer instead of
on top of the pattern, change the three printf lines near the bottom of
main (the ones that print diagnostics and error messages) from
'printf(' to 'fprintf(stdprn,' and change the putchar lines from
n');' to 'putc('
n',stdprn)' (there are also three of these)

Also: the reason the program won't print text on a hercules mono is that
DOS doesn't know about hercules graphics. To print the text you need to
use the Turbo function 'puttextxy'.... if anyone really cares enough to
want my modified version, (with a few other minor enhancements (?)), send
me a message and I'll get you a copy... I can't post it because I don't
have any way to upload from a micro other than 300 baud long distance.

Erik Levin clx...@buacca.BITNET "Striving to be mediocre"

Well, there you go. Let's welcome our first of our panellist, Colin E.

Hello, William.

Colin, what do you think of this comment?

Well, this is highly interesting. It's a look at the inner workings, and
faults, of Juggle, the very first siteswap simulator.

And you find that interesting?

Sure, this is the first of dozens of juggling simulators made by bored computer
programmers to distract bored jugglers. Of course, they have come a long way
from the little spots moving on a screen to the complex three dimensional,
multi person passing patterns you can view with today's simulators.

Um... fascinating. Ok, thanks Colin E. Let's move on to our next year.

From: (Alan Jaffray)
Organization: U.C. Berkeley Math. Department.
Date: 7 Jul 1992 00:27:21 GMT
Subject: Re: 4 4 1 siteswap

In article <>
(Duane Starcher) writes:
> This morning playing with the siteswap viewer I planned to put
>up the standard 4 1 1 and typoed 4 4 1 instead. Has anyone tried to
>learn this variation? It is simple in concept but maddening in the mind
>on screen. Maybe I will try this afternoon, but I wonder . . .

Yep, I learned this beast from Ron Graham himself, he used it as an
example of the power of siteswap notation -- 441 is the first pattern
discovered by siteswap that wasn't being done by jugglers before the
notation came about. It's a pretty cool pattern as a beginning-intermediate
type trick, but it doesn't seem to flow with the other 3-ball patterns I
do and so it's not too good as part of a routine. But I suspect I just need
to learn more patterns of that sort, I don't often use either vertical
throws *or* 1-height throws, but there are plenty of patterns that use them.

Just practice throwing the 4's up in rapid succession but *not*
simultaneously, then 441, then 441441, then keep it going as long as
possible. The timing of the 4's is the tricky part. But it's worthwile,
it's a nice pattern, and working on the precision of the 4's is a skill
needed for other tricks as well so it's not just wasted effort.

-- Alan

Ok, to discuss this one, let me introduce our next panellist. Considered by
most as the co-inventor of siteswaps, Boppo!


What do you find interesting about this discovery of the now very common
juggling trick known as 441?


Excuse me?

I found 441 back in 1971. These guys were way behind.

Oh.... anything else you want to say?


Right... well. Ok, let me ask another panellist... Donald Grant. What do you
find interesting about that message?

William, I'm a diabolist.

Ah.... Colin?


What do you think?

About what exactly?

About the discovery of.... no, forget it. Let's move on to 1993...

From: (Alan Morgan)
Organization: Electronics For Imaging Inc.
Date: 7 Jul 93 17:03:46 GMT
Subject: Re: numbers?

In article <> (Seth Pettie) writes:
>Could someone please tell me what numbers juggling is?

Juggling lots of objects. "Lots" varies tremendously with
who you are. I am a numbers juggler. Although I work on
tricks with 3 and 5 balls and 3 and 4 clubs I mostly try
to see how many objects I can do and for how long.

EFI agrees with me 100% on matters of fact. The above isn't and they don't.

I think the best person to discuss this one would be the original author and
long term Rec.juggler, Alan Morgan!

Hi William.

What do you find interesting about this post?

The .sig file. It's an early example of the humourous messages I've been adding
to my posts since posting to this newsgroup. Soon they would take on a life of
their own, interacting with other .sig files and even having their own

I thought you would say something about your numbers juggling.

Nothing is left to say about it.

Right... I guess not. What do you think of my hairstyle?

It's nice, William, but what has that got to do with anything?

The next clip wasn't quite ready to play, after your short answer. I was what
you call "padding".

Fair enough.


From: (J B Brolly)
Organization: University of Leeds, England
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 1994 13:28:25 GMT
Subject: 2 diabolo tricks

If anyone out there is having problems with tricks with two diabolos, try a
shorter string. Last night I used one about 1 foot shorter then I normally
use for one diabolo and I had a lot more success than normal (suicides out
of multiple round the worlds, exchange in a trap, loads of stuff) You seem
to get a lot more control with a shorter string.


Brendan Brolly
Physicist and Juggler
IRC in Polymer Science, Leeds

Anthony Gatto, welcome to the show.

Hi Bill.

Call me William.

Ok Bill.

Look, I don't call you Tony, do I?

Sorry, Willy.

Anthony, what do you think of the advice given for people learning two diabolos
in that message?

Ah, gee, I don't think I do diabolos.

What do you mean?

I'll ask my pop... DAD! DO I DO DIABOLOS?

No, Honey, you juggle.

I guess I don't do diabolo, Billy.

Ok... Colin?

Don't look at me, Donald is the expert.


Yes, this is very interesting advice. It also shows just how far the techniques
involved in diabolo....

I'm sorry, it's time to move on to the next... Anthony, could you sit down

I was just going to have a go at Donald's diabolos. They sure look fun.

Hoi, keep yee hands off! Those renegades arnee cheap y' knoow.

You can use some of mine, I have 5 in my bag in the dressing room.

Thanks Col.

Call me Colin E.

Hey, Anthony, you can't just leave! I want to ask you more questions later...
Oh, go then... Let's have the next year...

From: (Rob Stone)
Organization: Petawawa National Forestry Institute, Canadian Forestry Service
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 15:25:36 GMT
Subject: Re Most Balls

Message-Id: <v01510104ac23019236bc@[]>

this is something that the JIS should be definitive about, if we could
agree on the rules.

However I thought that a certain Mr A. Gatto had juggled 12 rings in
Germany last summer to an invited audience (it was resported in the ctach)
assume that meansd >=24 catches.


Rob Stone, Dept Psychology, University of York, York, YO1 5DD
Tel +44 1904 433161. FAX ...+44 1904 433189.

To discuss this I'd like to introduce Luke Burrage, maybe one of Scarborough's
finest juggling talents.

Hello William.

What do you think of this message?

I think it is amazing how little Rob Stone has changed. The spelling is just as
bad then as now. Check out the .sig file too, how much has that changed in 6

What about the reported juggling of 12 rings?

Well, that's old news.

I know it's old news, that is the whole point of this show, to discuss old

Why don't you just ask Anthony?

He's out the back playing with Colin E's diabolos.

I'll go and get him.

No, I was asking you about... oh, ok, just walk out. Um... Alan. As a numbers
juggler, what do you think about the possibility of someone juggling 12 rings?

I think someone will do it in 2006.

Right. And 14 rings?

I'll see it when I believe it.

Ok, lets move on to our next year... oh, Luke, please sit down again, we don't
want our panellists walking in and out like that...

Anthony is running 3 diabolos.

Please, no more lies Luke...

It's true! If you don't believe me, go look for yourself.

I'm trying to do a show here.

Suit yourself.


From: Bob Dobbs <>
Organization: I'm actually quite disorganized.
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:55:46 -0500
Subject: Re: pain!

Message-Id: <>

References: <4qp338$>

> In article <4qp338$>, says...
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> >
> > I know clubs are supposed to hurt your hands untill you learn to catch
> >them correctly, but i have been trying for a month and can't figure out
> >how to catch them without pain...
> >
> >

I had this problem too. It turned out that no matter what I did the
Juggle Bug clubs always hurt. I bought some Renegades instead. If
you're not using Juggle Bug clubs, and even if you are I have a few

If you spin the clubs fast and catch them near the end of the handle it
can really sting. Try spinning the clubs a little less vigorously and
cathching them somewaht close to the center of the club.

The angle of the catch is important. If I throw the clubs so that the
ones landing on the right are landing are pointing to the right it is
much easier for me to catch them without pain. The ideal, painless
catch for me looks like this. My hand is open, palm up and the handle
of the club lands either across my fingers. If the club lands across
the first joint it really smarts.
If all of your throws rotate in parallel planes (ie pointing straight
away from you) they are often very awkward to catch.

Hope I said something useful.
Richard "looking for a juggling partner at Notre Dame this summer" Hasty

Jason Garfield, what do you think about this?

What a fucking pussy.

Excuse me?

The wanker complaining about his fingers.

Look, you might not have realised but were are going out live here.

Who gives a shit? I juggle 8 bowling balls for breakfast, this fucker is
moaning about jugglebugs.

Jason, please...

Want to see PAIN? Want to see HURT? Check out my latest video, there you'll see


FUCK YEAH! See this scar on my cheek?

Um... yes, very nice...

I got this catching a samurai sword in my fucking MOUTH! Try that, then you can
complain about jugglefuckingbugs.



Thank you. Let's move on to 1997.

From: Jan-Fredrik Braseth <>
Organization: SN Internett
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 1997 20:15:27 +0200
Subject: Size of contact juggling balls

I've resently picked up contact juggling, and I wondered if a contact
juggling ball is supposed to be smaller, larger or the same size as a
normal ball. Which is easier for a beginner??


Micheal Moschen, what advice would you have given this young juggler?

I'm sorry, what is this contact juggling he mentions?

Hahaha, nice one.

Excuse me?

That joke, it was good.

I wasn't joking. Explain to me what contact juggling is.

It is where you roll a ball over your hands without throwing it. There have
been various claims that you yourself invented and popularised it.

Aha! You mean Dynamic Manipulation!

If that is what you want to call it...

So, you want me to give away all my secrets on the one thing that I created,
the one thing that I've spent years developing, the one thing that I earn money
by doing, just so this little kid can rip off my routine? I don't think so!

Oh. Right then, lets move over to Luke Burrage again.

Sorry, I don't do contact... er... dynamic manipulation with balls. Do you want
to see my non-spinning juggling club?

Not really, we are discussing contact...

Look, you just switch it on, wait for the gyro to take effect and throw it....
like so!

Careful with the studio lights...

This is the first model I made, I've had quite a few electric shocks off it.
Hey, Jason, you are into pain... catch!

FUCK ME! Don't make me jump like that.

Just press that red button to start it... no, it's meant to do that... oh!

Look, will you two stop playing with that stupid club... Jason? Jason? Did he
just get an electric shock?

Yup, and he's fainted too! What a wuss.

I think it's time for our next year... 1998

From: (Gaidjin)
Organization: AOL
Date: 7 Jul 1998 06:37:22 GMT
Subject: New To Juggling

Perhaps I should tack a rider to the above statement. I am trying to learn how
to juggle. Teaching myself actually (shortage of mentors in my town, as in,
none) Any hints?

Hello, Dave Finnegan.

Hi William.

I think you are the best qualified for this question. Any hints on learning to

Bend your knees and go for it.

Is that it?


Anything else?


Ok. Colin E. What do you have to say?

Colin E went out to watch Anthony.

Thanks Alan... well, on with the next year then... 1999

From: (Michael Ferguson)
Organization: dis-
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 22:39:15 GMT
Subject: Re: Changing the name of the IJA (Was: Apology)

>> not quite, there is no British juggling association or organization
>> or anything at all ! the only thing tyhat exists is the
>> convention and thats about it!
>Ah, but didn't we all get a slip of paper at a recent BJC (was it
>Nottingham?), which stated that the bearer was a member of the BJF (or
>somesuch) for a year from the date of the convention? Something to do with
>the legality of the convention and the Criminal Justice Act (a gathering
>of more than 4 people etc etc...)

Yeah, I got one too at the Nottingham BJC and I'm not even British. I
was going to make a big fuss about it and demand that they change the
name since it wasn't fair to us non-British members, but then someone
told me that the whole thing was just a ploy to get around some silly
regulation that would have prevented jugglers from buying beer on site
had we not been members of some such organization. So I said to myself,
"Dang, they're tricking the gov. so's we can get drunk. God save the
Queen then, I'll be British!" Later I got to thinking that if the IJA
were as dedicated to providing proper drink for the juggling masses at
their fests as the British are, then maybe I'd have a more charitable
outlook towards them. Maybe.

--Michael Ferguson (a.k.a. Fergie ;)

Unfortunately, Michael Ferguson wasn't availiable to discuss this with us
today, he's out bating bears. Instead we have Stephen Whitis. Hello.



Luke, what is Stephen doing?

I think he's sitting there with his finger in his ears.

Oh... right. Well, Donald, what do you think about that last message?

Drink, so close to many jugglers hearts, the lubricant of any juggling

Wise words there. Alan, what do you think of the IJA?

Alan has gone outside with Colin and Dave to watch Anthony.

For goodness sake, not him as well... where's Boppo?

Um... I'm not sure exactly.

Thanks Luke. What do you think of the IJA?

I'm indifferent.


Me too.

Right, thanks for your help. Lets have our last message, this one from last

From: (Andy)
Organization: AOL
Date: 07 Jul 2000 07:04:27 GMT
Subject: Re: I want to be famous

Well, I think the reason there are famous (outside the
field/industry/art/whatever) magicians and not jugglers is that magic is more
of a "I remember seeing a guy that did this once" or "I saw that magic guy on
tv" or "i remember having a magician at my birthday when I was 7" whereas
juggling is a "I tried learning to juggle, but couldn't do much" or "my best
friend in college used to juggle". It's a matter of the difference between a
public who knows a few scatterred magicians, almost all of whom are
professionals, and a public who knows lots of people who juggle as a hobby/side
interest. Thus juggling ends up being seen as a hobby and thing that that
really cool guy at school could do amd that is easily shared as opposed to
magic being something that very few people do and is very specialized and not
as openly taught from person to person. Juggling is something that someone
with a passing interest can pick up, magic isn't somethign usually taken up by
the curious.

Just my two cents,
Andy Leviss

Profound words on juggling there. To discuss this we have the originator of
this thread, Flamingdeath1.


Hi. I'd like to ask you a few questions. You said you wanted to be famous?

That's right.

Are you famous yet?


In what way do you...

FLAMINGDEATH? What a fucking shit name! You want to see BURNING? You want to
see DEATH?

Oh, Jason, you're awake again, please sit down.

I'm MAD, I'm MEAN and I'm seriously PISSED OFF!

Look, it's ok. We all knew that your tough image was all an act. Everyone has a
pain threshold they can bear, yours just happens to be 12 volts. Calm down

But who does this FUCKER think he is? FLAMINGDEATH? PAH!

I'm actually quite a good juggler....

I don't give a SHIT! Do you think you could stand being burnt?

Look, the name is just a stage name, the kangaroo kid isn't really a

You want to see PAIN? You want to see BURNING?

Jason, put that lighter down...


Oh, shit, someone get a fire extinguisher...

Donald, quick! Smother the flames with your kilt!


What did he do that for?

I think that's all the flames out...

Are we still live?

Is Jason still live?

Look, just put him in the recovery position, he's only got about, what, 80%

Hey, guys! Come and look at this, Anthony Gatto has got 5 diabolos going at
once.... what's that smell?

Not sure you want to know...

I'm sorry, that's all we have time for. Thanks for watching How We Used To Rec
Dot Juggle, I've been William Williamson, Goodnight!
email -
luke burrage's thing on the net -
the definitive juggling FAQ -


Jul 17, 2001, 3:41:06 PM7/17/01
Well done Luke. Made me laugh out loud.


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