3-ball shower harder than 5-ball cascade?!?
Ziyx
to 50 or so throws on a relatively consistant basis, yet I still can't do
the friggin' 3-ball shower!
I can get the pattern going for about 8 seconds or so, but then the balls
seem to synchronize (i.e. each hand throws at the same time) and I end up
dropping. The pattern always feels awkward, and I don't seem to have much
control. I am fluent in the main 3-ball patterns such as mills mess,
rubenstein's, etc. I just can't seem to get the timing right on the shower.
Does anyone else here have trouble with showers? Could it be that getting a
solid, real 3-ball shower is harder than a regular 5-ball cascade?
~Ziyx
7jug...@my-deja.com
"Ziyx" <ms...@stanford.edu> wrote:
>I just can't seem to get the timing right on the
shower. <snip>
Well, what do you mean by "right"? If you mean getting the pattern to
run as a 51 with an even rhythm, I'd say *that* isn't right. I juggle 5
shower in both directions using pretty much synchronous throws. Same
with 4. With 3, you may find a somewhat different timing, but you
certainly don't have to have an even tempo: 1-2-1-2-1-2... You can have:
12--12---12--- or something else. I don't know what your throwing
mechanics are like, esp with the 'shuttling' hand, but that may be
something that needs work.
> Could it be that
getting a> solid, real 3-ball shower is harder than a regular 5-ball
cascade?
No.
Chris Julian
7juggleratfcmail.com
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
chris_...@my-deja.com
of up
> to 50 or so throws on a relatively consistant basis, yet I still
can't do
> the friggin' 3-ball shower!
That seems wierd since 5 ball cascade will never be slower than a 3
ball shower. Make sure you have the basic idea down, by doing a 2 ball
shower. It seems like you have the idea since you can juggle it for 8
seconds or so. if the pattern is syncronizing, then it is too fast for
your hands maybe, try throwing a lot higher.
-Chris Sutton
Ziyx
see other people doing it, it has a more staggered rhythm.
"Ziyx" <ms...@stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:95sg7t$o74$1...@nntp.Stanford.EDU...
Loh Koah Fong
both hands at the same time.
1) First, 2b in the master hand, say RH. One in LH.
2) You throw 1st two balls from RH up to 5b height one after the other
quickly.
3) When the 1st ball is on the way down, toss the LH ball to the RH by
zipping it horizontally across. I used to angle it a bit such that my LH
is higher than RH - try that if it helps.
4) and you just carry on ...
You can try the steps (1) to (3) and then stop to get the rhythm. Then
go for one more throw and so on. I am sure you will get it in no time.
Other variations:
Throw the 1st 2 balls higher to, say 7b height. Then pass the 3rd ball
under a raised leg or behind the back. Can even try doing that
continuously.
I also tried alternating between a shower and false shower. The change
in speed seem to be quite interesting.
Cheers!
koah fong
--
Juggling: http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/kfloh/juggling.htm
Singapore Jugglers : http://www.juggling.org/~singapore
Spam@inter.net Masque
colin_d...@my-deja.com
"Ziyx" <ms...@stanford.edu> wrote:
> My main problem is that I throw with both hands at the same time.
> When I see other people doing it, it has a more staggered rhythm.
There is considerable confusion and difference of opinion about
the shower, 3 ball or otherwise. There are those who claim that
the one true 3-shower is synchronous (SiteSwap (4x,2x)) while
others claim that the one true 3-shower is completely, utterly
and perfectly asynchronous (SiteSwap 51). Many perform something
somewhere in between, something like (4.3x,1.7x), whatever that
may mean, giving a real gallop feel.
I personally perform both the 3-shower and the 4-shower as close
to perfectly asynchronously as most people can hear. It's damn
near 51 and 71 respectively. (and my 2-shower is 31 too). I can
never get a clean, clear, good-looking (4x,2x) and have stopped
bothering. For me, in order of difficulty, I have the following:
(right hand throws given first)
31
13
3
51
15
4
71
5
6
17
Your mileage can, may and probably will vary.
cdw
--
\\// ko ze'u jmive gi'e snada
Dave Gaskell
the anticlockwise shower (which I learned only after I could do the
clockwise), I cannot throw simultaneously. My thoughts on it are that once
you get comfortable with the pattern, you get nearer and nearer to
synchronous. Thats my experience of it anyway, but others may differ.
Dave
--
Director - Media Tainment Ltd.
Author of Media Circus - the juggling tutor
www.thejugglingtutor.com
Ziyx <ms...@stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:95sn90$r3t$1...@nntp.Stanford.EDU...
Richard Beauregard
of my 5 ball level. My assesment of the problem is that for every 100
minutes of 5 ball cascade practice I spend about 30 seconds trying the
shower!! Is your Practice ratio similar? I am sure this is why I am
weak on the shower!
Ziyx
If you added up all the time I've practiced showers, it would probably be
about 6 hours, as compared to over 400 hours easily on 5.
"Richard Beauregard" <bea...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21104-3A...@storefull-251.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Scott
five. I can fountain four a few different ways.
But I picked up Mill's Mess last Saturday at the Austin Jugglefest. And I
still can't shower, it just doesn't happen. Very frustrating. It's NOT
lack of practice - I learned Mill's Mess in a few hours and I've put
significantly more than that into failing to shower.
"Ziyx" <ms...@stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:96341f$ak9$1...@nntp.Stanford.EDU...
Andy
> I was just thinking of posting a similar problem, not that I can cascade
> five. I can fountain four a few different ways.
>
> But I picked up Mill's Mess last Saturday at the Austin Jugglefest. And I
> still can't shower, it just doesn't happen. Very frustrating. It's NOT
> lack of practice - I learned Mill's Mess in a few hours and I've put
> significantly more than that into failing to shower.
Mill's Mess is a reverse cascade, with funny arm movements. The shower is a
whole other category of trick, the siteswap for the mess is 3, for a shower
its 51 (of course the symchronous shower is different). One hand is
throwing to 5 ball height the other is just passing the ball across. This
is what made the trick difficult for me, it is asymetrical and requires one
hand to consistenly and accuratley throw much higher than the other. It
took me a great deal of work to get, but I found showering left and right
to help a lot with 5
--
Nope I'm not giving out my address
TobusRex
down..but frankly the half-shower or reverse cascade is far more appealing
to me anyway. Aesthetically the shower is not very impressive IMO....a
non-juggler doesn't know it's harder than the simple cascade.
"Ziyx" <ms...@stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:95sg7t$o74$1...@nntp.Stanford.EDU...
Martin
Tobus wrote: The shower is an ugly pattern anyway....I still haven't been
able to get it
> down....Aesthetically the shower is not very impressive IMO.
- No comment.
>...a non-juggler doesn't know it's harder than the simple cascade.
A non-juggler doesn't even know, that you are normally juggling a cascade as
a basis. When you are performing in front of non-jugglers you don't have to
think in categories like hard and simple. For them a yo-yo (nice trick!)
could be as impressive as a "backcross reverse - backcross " _ it's a
question of a good or a bad performance.
Martin
Martin is two inches taller than most
tcu...@bangor.ac.uk
I couldnt do the shower for a while till I stumbled across this
accidentally. The thing is I might be wrong...
Anyway, juggle a cascade then throw 'one over the top' and carry on
throwing 'over the top'. But like I said I might be wrong.
___ ___
Cheers, /\ \ /\__\ /\__\
/::\ \ /:/ _/_ /:/ /
/:/\:\ \ /:/ /\__\ /:/ /
_____/:/ /\:\ \ /:/ /:/ _/_ /::\ / ___
/::::::/ / \:\__\ /:/ /:/ /\__\ /:/\:\ \/\__\
\:\~~\~~ \/__/ \:\/:/ /:/ / \/__\:\/:/ /
\:\ \ \::/ /:/ / \::/ /
\:\ \ \:\/:/ / /:/ /
\:\__\ \::/ / /:/ /
\/__/ \/__/ \/__/
Scott
trouble in either direction. Basically you do reverse cascade with one hand
and cascade with the other.
Thanks anyway.
Scott
<tcu...@bangor.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:3A87F43D...@bangor.ac.uk...
Scott
And yeah, I agree whole-heartedly, it IS ugly for a juggling pattern. I
want to be able to do it anyway. Don't know why....
As for non-jugglers, showmanship impresses them, and I don't have any. I
just like juggling....
My nephew's first words to me were "Do four." When I'm practicing outside
with X objects, the first question the non-juggling passerby asks is, "Can
you do X+1? X+2?" My huskies are my best audience, though if I juggle
tennis balls I get tackled and robbed.
Maybe I should give up on showering for a while and work on cascading five
instead - do weird 3-ball stuff like Burke's Barrage and Rubinstein's
Revenge to feed my ego and learn five-ball to impress everyone who's read
Juggling For the Complete Klutz and knows that 5 balls is the black belt of
juggling... oooooh....
Here's a bit of ego-boo - there are plenty of Austin Juggling Club members
who are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than me - cascade 7, flash 8, pass 5
clubs, et cetera. But I'm the 8th member to do Mill's Mess... maybe I
should focus on what I'm good at, whatever that is. Because, frankly, in
any reasonably fair ranking of the club's jugglers, I'm not eighth, or close
to eighth, or close to small multiples of eighth. But I was
fourth-from-last to drop at the Jugglefest coin juggling competition.....
"TobusRex" <Wilso...@edu.net> wrote in message
news:2FKh6.1392$kG2.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Binoculars
practice 5 a lot my four ball juggling and showerng 3 and half showering 4
feel akward. The rhythm is so different form five because it is asymetric
whereas 5 is symetic. Perhaps you should try and vary the height of your
shower. Some people prefer to do it high and slow other fast and low. With
the four ball half shower I noticed that things go better if I do it
slightly faster and don't make the arcs to high. With the three ball shower
I noticed that doing it fast and low is easier than doing high. Errors with
high throws are magnified and therefore more difficult to correct. But
basically I think it is a matter of preference. Once you master about a 100
throws left and right with the three ball shower. The box and giraffe are
two really cool tricks that make showering a lot more fun.
The box is basically changing a shower form right to left. This is done
every throw. With the giraffe you hold one hand high, in the air, kind of
like the statue of liberty. You continually throw balls to the hand in the
air. The hand in the air drops the ball just after it catches it. Basically
it is a shower with one arm straight up.
Andy Lewis
TobusRex <Wilso...@edu.net> wrote:
> The shower is an ugly pattern anyway....I still haven't been able to get it
> down..but frankly the half-shower or reverse cascade is far more appealing
> to me anyway. Aesthetically the shower is not very impressive IMO....a
> non-juggler doesn't know it's harder than the simple cascade.
>
>
Beg to differ.
The shower can be a very nice looking pattern - like all tricks, it's
down to how you do it. The reason why it's so hard to learn (imho) is
simply because there are no shortcuts to learning it - no ways of
breaking it down & practicing small sections of it (unlike most other
tricks that I know)
Visually speaking, the difference between a cascade and a shower is
quite dramatic. The difference between a cascade and a half shower is
far less so.
It is also well worth learning. There are many many tricks that make
use of shower throws, eg the box (another one that can look amazing or
crap, depending on how you do it), shower extensions to Mills' Mess -
the list is pretty endless...
Andy
Andy Lewis
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I couldnt do the shower for a while till I stumbled across this
> accidentally. The thing is I might be wrong...
>
> Anyway, juggle a cascade then throw 'one over the top' and carry on
> throwing 'over the top'. But like I said I might be wrong.
>
Nope :-)
You've just described a half-shower.
Andy
Dave Gaskell
I agree with all but one statement of your response. I think you can break
down the shower and learn the two ball exchange, without a third ball. Once
you can pass a ball from one hand to the other (horizontally) at the same
time as doing a cascade throw from the catching hand, you are ready to add
the third ball. This two ball exchange is the same for the 4 ball shower as
well, so really it is the crux of all shower patterns (IMHO of course :-) )
Dave
Director - Media Tainment Ltd.
Author of Media Circus - the juggling tutor
www.thejugglingtutor.com
Andy Lewis <ajl...@puresoftware.removethis.co.uk> wrote in message
news:140220011317304423%ajl...@puresoftware.removethis.co.uk...
Willem-Jan Monsuwe
)> down..but frankly the half-shower or reverse cascade is far more appealing
)> to me anyway. Aesthetically the shower is not very impressive IMO....a
)> non-juggler doesn't know it's harder than the simple cascade.
)>
)>
)Beg to differ.
)
)The shower can be a very nice looking pattern - like all tricks, it's
)down to how you do it. The reason why it's so hard to learn (imho) is
)simply because there are no shortcuts to learning it - no ways of
)breaking it down & practicing small sections of it (unlike most other
)tricks that I know)
)
)Visually speaking, the difference between a cascade and a shower is
)quite dramatic. The difference between a cascade and a half shower is
)far less so.
)
)It is also well worth learning. There are many many tricks that make
)use of shower throws, eg the box (another one that can look amazing or
)crap, depending on how you do it), shower extensions to Mills' Mess -
)the list is pretty endless...
Could you name a few more of this list ? I'm researching shower patterns
and tricks at the moment, but I didn't get much farther than the box, and
7131. P.S. 7131 should look pretty cool once I get it down.
Oh, and I can shower 4, but I still can't cascade 5. I practise both
roughly equally long. Is that normal ? (I even qualified 4-b shower from
the offhand once, and I only qualified 5-b cascade twice yet.)
SaSW,
--
Willem (at stack dot nl)
Disclaimer: I am in no way responsible for any of the statements
made in the above text. For all I know I might be
drugged or something..
No I'm not paranoid. You all think I'm paranoid, don't you !
#EOT
Todd Strong
topic?
Thank you.
What are your thoughts on passing the "one" in a shower?
Should the hands be level with each other?
Should the hand passing the ball be slightly higher than the receiving hand?
Should the passing hand be lower?
Might the number of objects being showered change the relative heights of the
hands?
Once met a juggler who could shower five balls, but couldn't cascade five. He
told me that it was important (for him) that the hand passing the ball over
should be higher than the receiving hand.
thanks, Todd Strong
my sig. file can post two more headers than yours.
Dave Gaskell
I then throw the ball from my left hand (like a cascade throw) at the same
time as the ball from my right (horizontally). The fact that my left hand
was lower means that by the time I have released the ball, my left hand is
in the correct position to catch the horizontal ball and all I need to do is
turn my palm inwards. I do the same two ball exchange for the four ball
shower. I haven't worked on five ball shower yet, but would still expect to
do the same two ball exchange.
Dave
Director - Media Tainment Ltd.
Author of Media Circus - the juggling tutor
www.thejugglingtutor.com
Todd Strong <tast...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20010216103045...@ng-md1.aol.com...
Jake Cooper
related
> topic?
Hijack away.
> Should the hand passing the ball be slightly higher than the receiving
hand?
Absolutely. First of all, it means you can pass with less force. You don't
have to chuck the ball across so it travels a horizontal path. Just give it
aslight push and it will fall into the other hand. Second, it means the
ball will be traveling almost vertically when it reaches the recieving hand.
This makes it easier for the recieving hand to catch it and prepare for the
next throw. Third, the recieving hand will already be at it's lowest point
(relative to your body) so you have room to accelerate it upwards to throw a
nice and high arc.
> Might the number of objects being showered change the relative heights of
the
> hands?
Yes. I think the more balls showered, the lower the recieving hand should
be. The first reason is that you need the extra room to accelerate your
throwing hand (since the balls are being thrown so highly), and the second
reason is that the ball has more airtime. In general, the more airtime each
ball has, the slower the pattern can be.
> thanks, Todd Strong
HTH,
Jake Cooper
Dani
wrote:
>What are your thoughts on passing the "one" in a shower?
>Should the hand passing the ball be slightly higher than the receiving hand?
I find this easier
>Should the hands be level with each other?
But this other is, i think, nicer to see. So when I can do the former
with a number of items, I try to level my hands as much as I can.
Of course, for the perfect pattern, they _should_ be level, and the
ones-throwing hand _should_ throw downwards.
To juggle the beautiful cartoon pattern, I mean. But I have still to
work out a couple details of this pattern.First, how can I make the
downwards thrown ball come up again and second how can it then pass
_through_ my hand. If you have any hints...
dani