How long did it take you to learn Mills Mess?
Alex
Is it common to spend more time learning Mills Mess than other 3 ball tricks?
BTW I am relatively new at juggling. I've been juggling for about 2-3 month.
Thanks,
Alex
Dave Tayleur
I think it depends how well prepared you are for it, i only started
learning when i had my tennis and under arm tennis fairly solid, think it
took a few days for me to be able to do the pattern at that point, and a
month or two more to get happy with the balls following each other.
My brother on the other hand (much less enthusiastic juggler than i) has
taken a good few months of practice, and can just about get two rounds of
it, but he did not solidify his under arm tennis and over the top throws
first, also he put in far less time over the period he was learning it.
Dave
--
----== posted via www.jugglingdb.com ==----
Urbanjuggler
just the matter in which you learn it. There are good tutorials on the
net, and also the explanation in the Encyclopedia of ball juggling helped
a lot of people.
A link to a tutorial
http://www.toddstrong.com/balljuggling/millmess_steve.htm
The animations aren't that clear, but it's a good explanation
The Wildcat juggler site doesn't seem to work now but I learned it from
there. Just type in "mills' mess tutorial" on google and you will find a
lot of help.
I asked a juggler once to help me with mills' mess and he said:" I can't
really help you, but one day you will just wake up and be able to do it"
(and it happened)
Good luck with it
Hope it helps
Urban
--
brotherhuw
as it was at a juggling club) and then hours and hours if not weeks of
running it to get it smooth and nice feeling. Its a time in trick. One
things I found very helpful was to run it with two balls for a long time
in order to get the motion into my mind and muscle memory. That worked for
me, on the other hand my brother hated it as a technique when I was
teaching him, so its a bit of a whatever works. It does help to visualise
the pattern though.
Good luck, it feels fantastic when you get there so its worth the time!
Cheers
Huw
Peter Dashwood
properly for a couple of months, and it took me forever, most of the
summer holiday, so a good 3 months, and even then I wasn't sure it was
correct.
Now it is the pattern I am most comfortable with, records being 10+mins
with 3 ball, 1 min with 4 ball and around 30 catches 5 ball.
Keep at it, it will come, but it takes forever. If you can find someone to
help you, tell you the throw order catch order etc then it will help you
immensely.
Nicoll
to do a Windmill one way, and then the other. Whatever it was, it wasn't
mills mess.
Someone told me it involved being able to throw a ball in an inverse
cascade with the hands crossed over, so I practised that; inverse cascade
with hands crossed over. Then, the following week, someone at Jacksons
lane broke it down for me into three separate throws. It took about an
hour to get that sorted, but I had the basic idea by the end of the
evening. Took a week or so to be able to run it consistently.
The hardest part was actually seeing what was going in - I was quite
baffled for some time!
Aidan
I learned from Charlie Dancey's book and it took me a week to learn. It
was probably five or six months later that I relised that the under the
arm throws have to be thrown back towards the middle to make the balls
follow eac other.
I have taught some people to do it in under half an hour.
I think it depends what other tricks you know when you come to learn Mills
Mess and also how you learn it. There are some tricks like Rubenstein's
Revenge that took me *muc* longer to learn, three or four months to get
anywhere with it.
Aidan.
qrk
Think it took me 1.5 weeks. Then, it just happened. I found this site
helpful:
http://didier.arlabosse.free.fr/balles/english/debmills.html
I'm sure you will find other tricks that take longer to learn than MM.
---
Mark
NERD
Took about a week I think. I had been juggling for about a month. Mills
Mess was one of the first tricks I learn. This was because it said in
the encyclopedia of ball juggling that it was the cream de la crop (or
something similar (I cant be bothered to look it up(yes it's in the book
shelf))) of three ball juggling patterns. And one that EVERYBODY wanted
to learn. The tricks I knew from before was over the top, under the
hand, and one up - two up. I just did it like it said in the book;
started with learning the hand movement. I did those hand movement
excerecise (ispell just wont give me the proper spelling!! AARRRRG) in
the book for a whole day!! Then I just went on to do it. Cold start,
three first catches on way (i just let the under the hand throw drop (so
i could concentrate on getting the throws right and be sure my hands
were where they were supposed to)) and then a new cold start with three
throws the other way. I think I concentrated on getting the under the
hand throw just right up and down in the beginning and not into the
middle. I found that to be easier, but it's not as good looking. If you
learn it this way (like said in the book) then it's real easy! You learn
three perfect throws both ways; after you have done three perfect
throws, then you just execute your three perfect throws the other way!!
I did practice quite a lot though! But mills mess is actually really
easy if you just get your head around it.
Tim Peterson
> I didn't really understand what was going on at first; I was just trying
> to do a Windmill one way, and then the other. Whatever it was, it wasn't
> mills mess.
>
> Someone told me it involved being able to throw a ball in an inverse
> cascade with the hands crossed over, so I practised that; inverse cascade
> with hands crossed over. Then, the following week, someone at Jacksons
> lane broke it down for me into three separate throws. It took about an
> hour to get that sorted, but I had the basic idea by the end of the
> evening. Took a week or so to be able to run it consistently.
>
> The hardest part was actually seeing what was going in - I was quite
> baffled for some time!
Same here -- I got the impression from Wikipedia that it was a false
shower/windmill in both directions, as well as involving a reverse cascade
with arms crossed. That didn't seem to be getting me anywhere, so I
decided to learn it properly. I found a step-by-step YouTube video earlier
this week and followed it. I got up to 2 rounds or so last night, after
3-4 hours practice total.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1NmNTlWRCU
I've only been juggling any more than a 3-ball cascade for the past two
months, thanks to the fact that I'm currently taking Jeff Peden's juggling
class at RIT.
--Tim
raybot
Without putting a whole lot of time into practicing it, I'd say it took me
a month or two to learn it. That is only because for the first few weeks,
I could do three throws and catches perfectly, but then I would try to
continue it in a completely wrong fashion. Then, at Cornell Fest '06, I
just got it all of a sudden. Once you realize how it works, it's pretty
easy, and simply a matter a of getting the throws where they need to go,
just like when you were learning three ball cascade. Good luck with
everything!
- Ray, who's trying to learn 4b mills by thinking about it once everyday,
and maybe juggling it for 10 minutes. hardly a good plan.
brynbobaggins
trick, linking into lots of other tricks. I still dont totally understand
the pattern although I can run it for ages- don't try when you're learning
it, just follow the steps from a tutorial (www.kingscascade.com has a good
one)
Jason Garfield seems to think that you shouldn't learn it, personally I
think that says a lot about him. If you want to impress girls and make
pretty patterns with glowballs you cant go wrong with mills mess!
ErinStephens
teaching me. :)
Erin
--
Frogzone1
I learned it in about a week sitting for ages juggling against the
wall, and probably far too fast. I spent a long time on it per day and
then it started to click. I must admit I'm not usually that dedicated
to learning a trick, but someone told me it would be impossible to
learn in a week, which is clearly not true as so many people on here
seem to have managed! :)
Eleanor
Nicoll
How long did it take you learn 534?
Being the bird of little juggling-brain that I am, I've been strugging
with it for months. I keep visualising it, running it slowly in my head,
and have been practicing 504, 531, and 45123, but with four balls I can't
go beyond flashing '5345'. Nargh!
You people with actual juggling *talent* just make me cry inside a little
(much as I love to watch), but I take comfort in being good at other
things. I wouldn't hate you unless you could draw a better portrait than
me in five minutes.
ErinStephens
>
> ErinStephens wrote:
> How long did it take you learn 534?
>
For some reason I didn't learn that one til way late - and was able to run
it right away. Got 4 rounds of it with clubs on the first try. :) Now
it's one of my favorite club patterns to experiment with...such a fun
pattern!
But as for drawing a portrait...yeah...I couldn't do a portrait that
actually resembled a real person if my life depended on it. So good work
on that one! I'm jealous.
Adam Rowney
>
> ErinStephens wrote:
> How long did it take you learn 534?
>
> Being the bird of little juggling-brain that I am, I've been strugging
> with it for months. I keep visualising it, running it slowly in my head,
> and have been practicing 504, 531, and 45123, but with four balls I can't
> go beyond flashing '5345'. Nargh!
I hear doing 53 (both ways) helps, and also doing 4 ball tennis helped me
to do it.
When i learnt it, i just thought about it, and realised what it was (after
doing lots of 4 ball tennis that day), and just tried it, and it fell into
place, much to my joy (I guess i was lucky). Although, i struggled to get
it to run "properly" for a while, as i had (and still have) a problem with
the right heights with the 3's and 4's).
NERD
First of all. Stop f...... top posting!
Second: if you learn 53 both ways and 53444 and still can't do it, then
your 3 is too high. Yes, most likely that is the problem. If you can see
the 3 well, then it's too high. Almost everybody has this problem in the
beginning.
Adam Rowney
>
> Less than 5 minutes. I got plenty of "I Hate You"s from them boy jugglers
> teaching me. :)
>
> Erin
I hate you...
:)
Adam Rowney
> - Ray, who's trying to learn 4b mills by thinking about it once everyday,
> and maybe juggling it for 10 minutes. hardly a good plan.
Wow! You have the same plan as me! Do you get really angry and throw your
juggling balls into the sofa as well :)
*grrrr*
Stallie
>
> Less than 5 minutes. I got plenty of "I Hate You"s from them boy jugglers
> teaching me. :)
>
> Erin
>
Yep me too lol!
I had a couple of other tricks down before though like reverse cascade
with arms crossed.
I was actually very drunk on a night out when some juggling tramp appeared
and showed me what he clamed to be mils mess and i didn't believe him cos
it seemed so simple when he explained it. Next day with a hurendous
hangover I tried to learn "his" trick and got it in about 5 mins then when
I actually checked on the web what a mills mess was I jumped for joy [1]
when I realised I had actually learned mils mess!
Stallie
[1] - I didn't actually jump around much. I felt like shit!! [2]
[2] - Never used footnotes like this before. I think I like it :-D
jugglerguy
> The Wildcat juggler site doesn't seem to work now but I learned it from
> there.
>
As far as I know, Wildcat Jugglers has been working all the time. Here's
the link to Mills Mess:
http://homepage.mac.com/abramr/juggling/tutorial/category/tricks/millsmess.html
Rob
Mangatang
>
> Nicoll skrev:
> > ErinStephens wrote:
> > How long did it take you learn 534?
> >
> > Being the bird of little juggling-brain that I am, I've been strugging
> > with it for months. I keep visualising it, running it slowly in my head,
> > and have been practicing 504, 531, and 45123, but with four balls I can't
> > go beyond flashing '5345'. Nargh!
> >
> > You people with actual juggling *talent* just make me cry inside a little
> > (much as I love to watch), but I take comfort in being good at other
> > things. I wouldn't hate you unless you could draw a better portrait than
> > me in five minutes.
> >
How about middle posting? I must have the same problem (3 too high in
534), because my pattern turns into a sync pattern after three or four
rounds.
> >
> >
> >> Less than 5 minutes. I got plenty of "I Hate You"s from them boy jugglers
> >> teaching me. :)
> >>
> >> Erin
> >>
> >> Alex wrote:
> >>> I've been learning Mills Mess for almost two weeks now and can barely
make
> > a
> >> single round.
> >>> Is it common to spend more time learning Mills Mess than other 3 ball
> > tricks?
> >>> BTW I am relatively new at juggling. I've been juggling for about 2-3
> > month.
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Alex
> >>>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> First of all. Stop f...... top posting!
>
> Second: if you learn 53 both ways and 53444 and still can't do it, then
> your 3 is too high. Yes, most likely that is the problem. If you can see
> the 3 well, then it's too high. Almost everybody has this problem in the
> beginning.
>
>
--
Chiok
> Took about a week I think. I had been juggling for about a month. Mills
> Mess was one of the first tricks I learn. This was because it said in
> the encyclopedia of ball juggling that it was the cream de la crop (or
> something similar (I cant be bothered to look it up(yes it's in the book
> shelf))) of three ball juggling patterns. And one that EVERYBODY wanted
> to learn.
Yep, that's what I thought too when I read it from the book. To be worth
my salt, I should know Mills Mess. However the most annoying thing about
learning it was knowing how to start it. Very few videos show people
starting 3b mills mess.
> Cold start,
> three first catches on way (i just let the under the hand throw drop (so
> i could concentrate on getting the throws right and be sure my hands
> were where they were supposed to)) and then a new cold start with three
> throws the other way. I think I concentrated on getting the under the
> hand throw just right up and down in the beginning and not into the
> middle. I found that to be easier, but it's not as good looking. If you
> learn it this way (like said in the book) then it's real easy! You learn
> three perfect throws both ways; after you have done three perfect
> throws, then you just execute your three perfect throws the other way!!
This is exactly how I learnt and how I teach people to do it. Cross your
arms, do three throws and then stop so that the other hand is on top
holding two balls. Then do it in the opposite direction. Always stop
after three throws so that you make sure you're able to do that before
trying to do 6 throws.
Once you get the idea, smoothing out the pattern can take quite a bit
longer before you have something that swings and flows with your hips.
Peter Dashwood
Intriguing, I teach people one ball, 2 balls, 3 balls. Start with the ball
on the top (first to be thrown), then add the second one, and just do it
with 2 balls for ages, then fit in the 3rd one underneath. This method
seems to work, although there can be trouble fitting the 3rd ball in, but
I just demonstrate it slow, exaggerating the 3rd ball a lot.
Have you tried this. Does anybody know which method is better?
Pete - Anticipating having to teach an entire club this trick come next
academic year.
millsmess
Steve Mills
It's Him
>
> I do not remember.
>
> Steve Mills
>
>
The best post on this subject!
Nigel
Who hasn't a clue how long it took him to learn the trick and doesn't
care. Everybody learns different tricks at different rates and it makes a
big difference when in you learning curve you first meet a trick and
whether someone has really taught you it or you have just seen someone do
it.
Urbanjuggler
Harm1
>
> I've been learning Mills Mess for almost two weeks now and can barely make a
single round.
> Is it common to spend more time learning Mills Mess than other 3 ball tricks?
>
> BTW I am relatively new at juggling. I've been juggling for about 2-3 month.
>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
>
It took me about 10 minutes to grasp it, then about 30 minutes to get
comfortable with it. 4 ball mills mess took me a few hours, 5 ball mills
mess a little more then a week, will start working seriously on 6 ball
sometime soon. The reason why I learned realy fast is that I had a lot of
tricks with the repsective number of balls down, and then some with a
number above it. For 3 ball mills mess I had a lot of 3 ball tricks and
some 4 ball tricks realy solid.
Mills mess is a relatively advanced trick so I suggest you take the time
you put into it to learn lot's of other 3 ball and maybe 4 ball (tricks).
Your mills mess will come to you much faster that way. If you want to
learn mills mess these are some patterns that will help you.
reverse cascade: this is absolutely crucial. Matt Hall once told me to not
start working on mills mess with any number before you get more then 100
catches of the reverse cascade or fountain with that number. I believe he
was right.
underarm throws: if your right arm makes the underarm throw, don't move
your left arm towards your right arm but keep it where you normaly have
it. underarm throws in reverse cascade help a lot too. Work on both hands.
crossed armed reverse cascade: learn it both ways (right arm on top, left
arm on top. There's no need to have it solid, but it's nice to be able to
do about 15-20 catches everytime
As you might have noticed, the above 3 patterns all use one of the throws
you use in mills mess. Over the top throw, under arm throw, over arm throw
(when your arms are crossed the upper hand throws).
Once you learned these, get back to mills mess.
For a lot of people the mill helps a lot too. Like every trick you learn:
do it both ways. I advice you to learn the above three tricks before you
start working on mill or mills mess though.
Hope this'll prove helpful
Harm
Unicycle Tone
smooth-ish...
MBorel
Mark Adams
> I've been learning Mills Mess for almost two weeks now and can barely
> make a single round.
> Is it common to spend more time learning Mills Mess than other 3 ball
> tricks?
>
> BTW I am relatively new at juggling. I've been juggling for about 2-3
> month.
>
> Thanks,
> Alex
About two weeks. Actually, once I finally figured out what the pattern
was, thanks largely to folks here, it was a matter of a few hours to
juggle it roughly. I documented it in a series of messages in this
newsgroup under the subject "Newbie Update...."
I'm still working on making it pretty, but I don't juggle much these days.
Maybe it would make a good summer project.
--
Mark E. Adams, 2004 -- drop the "dot" to email me.
http://adamslan.shyper.com -*- Mandriva User# 263042
CONSIDER: ===========---------,,,,,,,,,............. . . . . .
"I'd love to go out with you, but I want to spend more time with my
blender."
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
raybot
>
> raybot wrote:
>
> > - Ray, who's trying to learn 4b mills by thinking about it once everyday,
> > and maybe juggling it for 10 minutes. hardly a good plan.
>
> Wow! You have the same plan as me! Do you get really angry and throw your
> juggling balls into the sofa as well :)
>
> *grrrr*
>
actually, I usually just lose one ball in some corner of my room that I
never knew existed before, and then have to stop because of a lack of
equipment.
NERD
Lol that sure is something I can relate to.
Adam Rowney
That mysterious 5th corner in a building with 4 walls, something im sure
many jugglers are well aquainted with ;)
Petahpie
>
> I've been learning Mills Mess for almost two weeks now and can barely make a
single round.
> Is it common to spend more time learning Mills Mess than other 3 ball tricks?
>
> BTW I am relatively new at juggling. I've been juggling for about 2-3 month.
>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
>
I learned it last night in about 3-4 hours. one thing that helped me was
to think that there is only one important ball. Ok, at the start when you
have 2 in your right and 1 in your left, the first one you throw from your
right is the important one. it tells you when to recross your hands. just
after you throw it the first time, your right hand goes to the bottom of
the left, the second time it goes back on top, etc. I just practiced with
the one ball for a bit. get a feel for what its like throwing from the
right, uncrossing your arms, recrossing, and catching with the left.
reuben
>
> I've been learning Mills Mess for almost two weeks now and can barely make a
single round.
> Is it common to spend more time learning Mills Mess than other 3 ball tricks?
>
> BTW I am relatively new at juggling. I've been juggling for about 2-3 month.
>
> Thanks,
> Alex
>
ages until I managed to actually make it look any good. The motion of the
hands is important.