Deer Vision etc.
Thomas Fournier
ne...@interlog.com wrote:
>
> What is the latest info on deer's ability to see. Colors, night vision
> etc. Can a deer see colors or not? It used to be the consensus that
> deer were completely color blind. Now I'm hearing this may not be the
> case.
There was a great article in "Deer and Deer Hunting" that dealt with
this question several years ago. If anyone could dig up the reference,
I would love to have it. The upshot was that deer do have receptors in
their retinas that enable them to distinguish colours. However, these
receptors are not the same as ours, so they do not see colours the same
way we do.
For example, deer do not have receptors that are sensitive to red or
orange. In all likelyhood, therefore, they see red and orange as black
(no receptor -> no sensation -> perception of black). That would
explain why deer are not bothered by blaze orange; it is just like every
other black blob in the bush. If that blob moves, though . . .
Just as the deer's colour spectrum is abbreviated at the low/red end, it
is extended at the high/ violet end. This suggests that they are
sensitive to nuances of tone and shading right up into the low UV range.
Therefore, shades of brown that look completely natural to us may have a
completely artificial UV hue that is completely invisible to us.
Moral: camouflage is no substitute for keeping quiet, immobile, and
downwind.
Corollary: it is probably better to spend your money on something that
helps you keep still (like a good bum pad) than on the latest, greatest
camo.
> How about UV? Do I need to use some kind of UV killer on my
> hunting clothes or is this just some gimmick to get me to buy some
> spray I don't really need?
SNIP
True, deer are apparently sensitive to UV. However, the marketing for
UV killers is ridiculous because it touts the spray's ability to
eliminate fluorescence that is visible to us. IOW, it pretends to
combat deer's ability to see colours that are invisible to humans by
showing us how the spray eliminates a glow that is visible to humans.
The demonstration is completely irrelevant. Does the spray help? That
is hard to say because, by definition, UV blockers eliminate invisible
colours; the benefit is necessarily invisible to us. The spray may us
look like a dark, innocuous blob, or it may distort the colour the deer
perceive in our camouflage and give us a conspicuously artificial hue.
We can't tell if the spray makes us invisible or if it makes look
bizarrely violet or puce.
By the way, I have thought of a lifetime of research that would answer
questions like this. If anyone wants to send a check to "Thos's Game
Vision and Camo Research Institute", I can guarantee that in 35 years
they will have scientific criteria for selecting camo. Really. I have
a PhD in neuroscience, and all I need is a couple of million $.
I can't tell you if the spray helps or not. I can tell you that the
marketing is insultingly stupid. In the absence of any theoretical or
empirical assurance of effectiveness, the marketing is enough to
convince me not to bite.
Keep your stick on the ice,
Thos
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Sam Gaylord
ne...@interlog.com wrote:
: What is the latest info on deer's ability to see. Colors, night vision
: etc. Can a deer see colors or not? It used to be the consensus that
: deer were completely color blind. Now I'm hearing this may not be the
: hunting clothes or is this just some gimmick to get me to buy some
: spray I don't really need?
: What about scents. What kind of scents, if any are you people using?
: I'm using a bow to hunt for the first time this year, so I have to get
: much closer to my prey, than when I'm hunting with a rifle. I was
: thinking of using some raccoon scent for when I'm up in my
: treestand.(20ft high)
: I'm close enough to my hunting area that I'll be able to sleep at
: home. I plan on showering in the morning before heading into the bush.
: I got some of this scent free deodorant from the local health food
: store. It's a clear liquid, based on some salt crystal from Tiland.
: It's supposed to kill bacteria.
: Peter
I wear blaze orange from head to pantcuff, do not wash it with any UV
killer (my wife used Tide free), eat meat during deer season, do not
use any cover scents, and have had deer standing well within 10 yards of
me on more than one occasion. IMHO, most of the stuff you see for sale is
just hype, what matters is that you've got to learn not to move.
samg
a.k.a Sam Gaylord (sa...@cs.itc.hp.com)
Hewlett Packard/Colorado Springs
Michael Courtney
Controlling scent is much more important than sight. It really does not
matter what you look like as long as the deer don't see you move. And
20 feet high in a tree they probably won't even see you move unless
you make noise and attract their attention.
--
Michael Courtney, Ph. D.
mic...@amo.mit.edu
Bryan Kinkel
Thomas Fournier <drt...@istar.ca> wrote:
>ne...@interlog.com wrote:
>>
>> What is the latest info on deer's ability to see. Colors, night vision
>> etc. Can a deer see colors or not? It used to be the consensus that
>> deer were completely color blind. Now I'm hearing this may not be the
>> case.
>There was a great article in "Deer and Deer Hunting" that dealt with
>this question several years ago. If anyone could dig up the reference,
>I would love to have it. The upshot was that deer do have receptors in
>their retinas that enable them to distinguish colours. However, these
>receptors are not the same as ours, so they do not see colours the same
>way we do.
I have had several in-depth conversations with Charles Alsheimer, the
author of the 'Deer & Deer Hunting' article, as well as read several
research papers on the subject. Apparently deer have dichromatic
vision while humans have trichromatic vision. In essence, deer only
have receptors for blue and yellow, while humans have receptors for
blue, yellow and red. Thus deer do not see red as red, but as a shade
of grey.
[snip]
> That would
>explain why deer are not bothered by blaze orange; it is just like every
>other black blob in the bush. If that blob moves, though . . .
Actually deer can see some blaze orange since yellow is a component of
orange. Mr. Alsheimer--who spends hundreds of days a year in the
field as a wildlife photographer and researcher--recommends you use
blaze orange which is more on the red side. More importantly, and
something that hasn't been discussed much, is the refectivity of
different materials. Some materials refect more light than others.
Cotton, fleece and wool materials reflect the least light and should
be the material of choice for blaze orange garments. Most certainly
shy away from the cheap "plastic-like" orange vests.
As for the UV idea, yes deer (and many other mammals) can see UV
light--which allows them to "see" in the dark. But this ability is
most important to hunters mainly at first and last light. In broad
daylight, it is not much of an issue. Most new camo materials are now
printed with non-UV reflective dyes. As long as you don't wash these
clothes in detergents with "color brighteners" you'll be ok. Will the
"UV blocker" products cut down on reflected UV light for older clothes
which have been washed with color brighteners? Yes.
>Moral: camouflage is no substitute for keeping quiet, immobile, and
>downwind.
>Corollary: it is probably better to spend your money on something that
>helps you keep still (like a good bum pad) than on the latest, greatest
>camo.
Thomas is right on the money here. Movement is far more important
than what color clothes you are wearing. By remaining motionless, I
have on numerous occasions successfully remained unobserved by deer at
very close range while I was wearing blue jeans which had been washed
hundreds of times with color brighteners.
>By the way, I have thought of a lifetime of research that would answer
>questions like this. If anyone wants to send a check to "Thos's Game
>Vision and Camo Research Institute", I can guarantee that in 35 years
>they will have scientific criteria for selecting camo. Really. I have
>a PhD in neuroscience, and all I need is a couple of million $.
Sorry Thomas, but the research has already been conducted in 1992 at
the University of Georgia by Dr. Larry Marchinton and Dr. Karl Miller
(wildlife specialists), in association with Dr. Gerald Jacobs
(animal-vision specialist from UC Santa Barbara), and Dr. Jay Neitz
(vision scientist from the Medical College of Wisconsin in Milwaukee).
Bryan Kinkel
blki...@mindspring.com
Thomas Fournier
Bryan Kinkel wrote:
>
> Thomas Fournier <drt...@istar.ca> wrote:
> >By the way, I have thought of a lifetime of research that would answer
> >questions like this. If anyone wants to send a check to "Thos's Game
> >Vision and Camo Research Institute", I can guarantee that in 35 years
> >they will have scientific criteria for selecting camo. Really. I have
> >a PhD in neuroscience, and all I need is a couple of million $.
>
> Sorry Thomas, but the research has already been conducted in 1992 at
> the University of Georgia by Dr. Larry Marchinton and Dr. Karl Miller
> (wildlife specialists), in association with Dr. Gerald Jacobs
> (animal-vision specialist from UC Santa Barbara), and Dr. Jay Neitz
> (vision scientist from the Medical College of Wisconsin in Milwaukee).
That just means that the research has to be replicated. If I could not
find some shortcoming in their research that compelled further research,
then I would not be much of a scientist ;-) Thanks for the references.
Keep your stick on the ice,
Thos.