.30-30 vs .30-'06
Richard Chandler
I dunno where it came from, but somehow I grew up with the impression that
30-'06 was THE hunting cartridge. Now that I'm finally in a position to
start hunting (No longer living in New Jersey), my local shop has a really
sweet deal on a hardly-used .30-30 lever action (+140 rnds ammo, $299). I'm
torn, should I get the .30-30, or look for a .30-'06. I expect to hunt deer
in Va. (I have a beautiful .22 Long Walther bolt action with a set trigger
for popping squirrels).
Hey, I've never compared the two cartridges, but I understand they're
radically different. Educate me.
Sig addition: Until we have wolves roaming the streets, we'll need hunters
roaming the woods.
(Free to anyone who needs .sig material).
--
Out of 20,000 gun laws, only one has reduced crime: In Kennesaw, GA, people
are required to own one.
"Ride a motorcycle. Save Gas, Oil, Rubber, Steel, Aluminum, Parking Spaces,
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Rich Chandler, DoD #296
Mike Linan
In article <1991Oct14....@doug.cae.wisc.edu> mau...@intercon.com (Richard Chandler) writes:
>
>I dunno where it came from, but somehow I grew up with the impression that
>30-'06 was THE hunting cartridge. Now that I'm finally in a position to
>start hunting (No longer living in New Jersey), my local shop has a really
>sweet deal on a hardly-used .30-30 lever action (+140 rnds ammo, $299). I'm
>torn, should I get the .30-30, or look for a .30-'06. I expect to hunt deer
>in Va. (I have a beautiful .22 Long Walther bolt action with a set trigger
>for popping squirrels).
> Hey, I've never compared the two cartridges, but I understand they're
Howdy Rich. I won't be able to give you technical specifications like
muzzle velocity and feet per second (I'm sure someone will respond
with that info), but I started off with a Winchester model 94 .30-30
and found that if you are hunting in relatively close cover where you
aren't required to make shots over 150-200 yards the .30-30 is a fine
round to use. And with the open sights you should have no problem
keeping a group of three shots in a 1.5" circle at 100 yards with a
rest and within 3-4" group just standing. The problem and need for a
more powerful round arises when you're hunting open spaces where it is
more likely for you to have to take 200+ yard shots. But, as I said,
for tight woods you can't beat the .30-30 in my opinion.
Mike "Ol dead eye" Linan
John Moder
>I dunno where it came from, but somehow I grew up with the impression that
>30-'06 was THE hunting cartridge. Now that I'm finally in a position to
A 30-06 is a nice all around deer and larger game rifle. the 30-30 is
a bit smaller but will get the job done quite nice. The only thing i
dislike about the 30-30 is the fact that the one I own is a lever
action. I feel they are a bit too dangerous unless your sure you know
what your doing.
I seen a kid shoot his father in the back with one after he tripped and
fell on the hammer of the gun. This was about 100 yards behind our old
deer shack. It is not funny when you see an ambulance where we hunt. I
am just glad it was not one of our crew.
--
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N6813 Harrison RD. Hilbert, WI 54129 -- (414)989-1603 or (414)989-1610
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Eric J. Korpela
> The only thing i
>dislike about the 30-30 is the fact that the one I own is a lever
>action. I feel they are a bit too dangerous unless your sure you know
>what your doing.
I agree. The .30-30 Winchester also has a problem with a "false
safety" There is a hammer position which looks like a half cock
position but in which the gun will fire if the trigger is pulled. It
is especially evident on new guns, and the problem may disappear after
the mechanism gets worn. I got into the habit of testing the safety
every time (in a safe direction.) A fair fraction of the time the gun
would go off. I strongly recommend not buying a lever action rifle
made by Winchester.
/\ kor...@ssl.berkeley.edu Internet
/__\ rioch BKYAST::KORPELA 42215::KORPELA DecNet
/ \ of Chaos korpela%bkyast@ucbjade Bitnet
(_____________________ <aka Eric Korpela>
bspe...@mta.ca
My father owns a Model 86 30-30 Winchester, like the ones that John
Wayne uses in his westerns. As far as rifles go, it is by far my
favorite, and unlike yours, which is probably not working properly
it will now fire when the trigger is pulled with the hammer on half-
cock. Now this gun, I will agree is not much good when firing across
a field, but when you are in the woods, it is more than sufficient:
light, short and very reliable. So in defence of these rifles, I
would strongly recommend buying one of these rifles, because
they are good guns.
Jeff Ross
> In article <1991Oct18.0...@doug.cae.wisc.edu> jo...@edsi.plexus.COM (John Moder) writes:
> > The only thing i
> >dislike about the 30-30 is the fact that the one I own is a lever
> >action. I feel they are a bit too dangerous unless your sure you know
> >what your doing.
>
first off you shouldn't be out in the field with a loaded rifle,
handgun or shotgun hunting if you don't know what you are doing, you
could be a hazard not only to yourself but to everybody around you.
> I agree. The .30-30 Winchester also has a problem with a "false
> safety" There is a hammer position which looks like a half cock
> position but in which the gun will fire if the trigger is pulled. It
> is especially evident on new guns, and the problem may disappear after
> the mechanism gets worn. I got into the habit of testing the safety
> every time (in a safe direction.) A fair fraction of the time the gun
> would go off. I strongly recommend not buying a lever action rifle
> made by Winchester.
if you have a gun like what you just mentioned, I would suggest you take
it immediatly to a compitent gun smith, my guess is your talking about
the winchester model 94, unfortunatly, I don't have a model 94, but I
do have a model 55 which was based on the 94. it was made in 1927, I just
brought it into a gunsmith for some work with the trigger, (actually the
hammer) if I where to slam the lever home, the gun would go off, but
the halfcock worked fine, just a little unsettleing when I went out for
some target practice and the gun went off before I was ready (I didn't cock
the gun until it was pointed down range) I unloaded the remainder of the
shells and put the gun down until I could bring it to a gunsmith..
Jeff
--
--
.Sig??? you want a stinkin' .Sig???
Jeff Ross
201-299-1819 (home) je...@wisdom.bubble.org
fram...@skitzo.dseg.ti.com
>> The only thing i
>>dislike about the 30-30 is the fact that the one I own is a lever
>>action. I feel they are a bit too dangerous unless your sure you know
>>what your doing.
>
> I agree. The .30-30 Winchester also has a problem with a "false
> safety" There is a hammer position which looks like a half cock
> position but in which the gun will fire if the trigger is pulled. It
> is especially evident on new guns, and the problem may disappear after
> the mechanism gets worn. I got into the habit of testing the safety
> every time (in a safe direction.) A fair fraction of the time the gun
> would go off. I strongly recommend not buying a lever action rifle
> made by Winchester.
Just $0.02 here. There is one other option for the .30-30.
I handgun hunt with a .30-30. Although single shot, I do
have the option to use pointed bullets. Where we all know
that you "CAN'T" do that with a tubular magazine and live
to post about it. At least I wouldn't think!
Richard Chandler
Considering I kinda started this thread on rec.guns, I thought I
should toss in my few bits.
I finally got a used (barely) Marlin Model 336 Lever action in
.30-30. It is the most popular gun in Virginia for deer, and also
supposedly the best for the conditions in the Virginia forests and
mountains. The gun already had a Bushnell 4x scope mounted, plus a
lovely little hunk of ivory at the base of the pistol grip. The fit
and finish of the Marlin are really astounding. It's hard to tell
where the wood ends and the metal begins.
For a used gun, it had hardly been used at all. There wasn't a
single scratch or dent in the wood, and the blueing looks virginal.
the previous owner apparently injured his back and can't go hunting
any more.
I'm not going to mention what I paid for it, because I'm sure to get
e-mail saying "Why, you should have gone to Buckskin Bob's. He could
have set you up for $100 less". I'm happy with it, and it was only
$35 over what the shop was charging for a new one (Without a scope or
mounting).
Of course, the new Marlin model 336 has a crossbolt safety. I think
it was introduced in '88. At least according to the instructors at
the Hunter Safety course I just finished. Imagine my chagrin, as I
thought about my new purchase to hear the instructor declare two days
later that the Lever action is the most dangerous kind. (admittedly,
when the Half-cock is the only safety you have, having to pull the
trigger with a round in the chamber to engage it is less than safe).
I can't wait for my chance to get to the local range for their
sighting in days and see what this puppy can do.
--
If ONE patron at Luby's Cafeteria had been armed, dozens of people would be
alive and uninjured today. Support Open Carry laws.
Steve Pickett
>In article <1991Oct26.0...@doug.cae.wisc.edu>, korpela%stew.ssl.B...@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Eric J. Korpela) writes:
>> In article <1991Oct18.0...@doug.cae.wisc.edu> jo...@edsi.plexus.COM (John Moder) writes:
>>> The only thing i
>>>dislike about the 30-30 is the fact that the one I own is a lever
>>>action. I feel they are a bit too dangerous unless your sure you know
>>>what your doing.
>>
>> I agree. The .30-30 Winchester also has a problem with a "false
>> safety" There is a hammer position which looks like a half cock
>> position but in which the gun will fire if the trigger is pulled. It
>> is especially evident on new guns, and the problem may disappear after
>> the mechanism gets worn. I got into the habit of testing the safety
>> every time (in a safe direction.) A fair fraction of the time the gun
>> would go off. I strongly recommend not buying a lever action rifle
>> made by Winchester.
That shouldn't happen. The gun should've been taken to a gunsmith for
repair or a factory service center.
>
> Just $0.02 here. There is one other option for the .30-30.
> I handgun hunt with a .30-30. Although single shot, I do
> have the option to use pointed bullets. Where we all know
> that you "CAN'T" do that with a tubular magazine and live
> to post about it. At least I wouldn't think!
Other options are Marlin which is a lever action and the new models
come with a hammer block safety. There are several models which are
out of production but available at gun shows. Savage and Remington
produced several bolt action models in 30-30. Savage used to make
their model 99 in 30-30.
Just as an idea, whats wrong with 308? There are several lever actions
around chambered for 308. Brownings BLR's and Savage model 99. The 308
offers several advantages such as higher velocitys, larger variety of
bullet weights, box magazine rather than tube so pointed bullets are
not a problem, mild recoil and the 308 is only slightly less powerful
than the 30-06.
--Steve
Ron Morgan
I've had both calibers, and in my opinion the only reason to buy a
30-30 is either sentiment (oh, it's the "John Wayne" gun!") or a very,
very specialized need for a very short firearm to use for 25 yard
shots in very heavy brush.
Other than that, the 30-06 is to the 30-30 as a Ferrari is to a Model
T. A lot of people won't admit that, but it's true. You can go down to
K-Mart or Wal-Mart and buy a brand new Remington 700ADL 30-06 for
about $325, and have a rifle that can take anything on this continent,
and take deer-sized game out to 400 yards or more. The 30-30 was
originally developed as a short, lightweight gun to carry in a saddle
scabbard. It fires a slow, flat-nosed bullet with a rainbow
trajectory, and beyond 200 yards it's so weak you can practically hold
out your hand and catch the bullet.
I don't mean to belittle the 30-30, but comparing it to a caliber like
the -06 is just apples and oranges. Like I said, it's the Ferrari
compared to the Model T.
Ron Morgan
osm...@emx.utexas.edu
Brent Reeves
Ron Morgan (osm...@emx.utexas.edu) writes:
> Other than that, the 30-06 is to the 30-30 as a Ferrari is to a
> Model T. A lot of people won't admit that, but it's true. You can go down to
> K-Mart or Wal-Mart and buy a brand new Remington 700ADL 30-06 for
> about $325, and have a rifle that can take anything on this continent,
> and take deer-sized game out to 400 yards or more. The 30-30 was
> originally developed as a short, lightweight gun to carry in a saddle
> scabbard. It fires a slow, flat-nosed bullet with a rainbow
> trajectory, and beyond 200 yards it's so weak you can practically hold
> out your hand and catch the bullet.
>
> I don't mean to belittle the 30-30, but comparing it to a caliber like
> the -06 is just apples and oranges. Like I said, it's the Ferrari
> compared to the Model T.
I know one Model-T (30-30) shell whose path a week ago led it through
the right shoulder, between two ribs, through the heart, through a
rib, and out through the left shoulder of a 5pt Bull Elk at 80 yards.
I'd recommend against catching any "Model-T" by hand that happens to
be loose in the woods, even if it has already travelled 200 yards.
'Not arguing against the broad-sweeping generalization that a Model-T
should be used at short range, but against the broad-sweeping
generalization that a Model-T couldn't possibly have much power.
-brentr
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brent Neal Reeves bre...@cs.colorado.edu (303) 492-1218
Mark O'Shea
In article <1991Oct31.0...@doug.cae.wisc.edu> bre...@cs.colorado.edu (Brent Reeves) writes:
>
> I know one Model-T (30-30) shell whose path a week ago led it through
> the right shoulder, between two ribs, through the heart, through a
> rib, and out through the left shoulder of a 5pt Bull Elk at 80 yards.
> I'd recommend against catching any "Model-T" by hand that happens to
> be loose in the woods, even if it has already travelled 200 yards.
People have killed deer with .22 rimfires, but that doesn't mean a .22
rimfire is the appropriate caliber for deer hunting.
> 'Not arguing against the broad-sweeping generalization that a Model-T
> should be used at short range, but against the broad-sweeping
> generalization that a Model-T couldn't possibly have much power.
I would not count on a .30-30 killing that same elk at 200 yards.
--
Mark O'Shea
intelhf!xcaret!marko "A ship in a harbor is safe, but
ma...@xcaret.intel.com then...that's not what ships were
ma...@xcaret.hf.intel.com built for."
fram...@skitzo.dseg.ti.com
>
> In article <1991Oct31.0...@doug.cae.wisc.edu> bre...@cs.colorado.edu (Brent Reeves) writes:
>>
>> I know one Model-T (30-30) shell whose path a week ago led it through
>> the right shoulder, between two ribs, through the heart, through a
>> rib, and out through the left shoulder of a 5pt Bull Elk at 80 yards.
>> I'd recommend against catching any "Model-T" by hand that happens to
>> be loose in the woods, even if it has already travelled 200 yards.
> I would not count on a .30-30 killing that same elk at 200 yards.
With modern technology its getting alot harder to find the
"perfect cartridge".
I think that we all know in the backs of our minds what the
capabilities and limitions of various cartridges are.
If you read the magazines they will tell you that cartridges like
.30-30, .30-06........ are "adequate" and that they have proven
themselves during the past century. But then the writters begin
to confuse us by saying "adequate, but modern technology has
yielded more perfect cartridges".
Most of them being of their own conjure like the 7mm STW which
is another magazine wildcat among others. I have to say that
the reviews of these cartridges look very good.
But even though invention will continue and wonderful bounds will
be taken, the .30-30, .30-06, .223....... will always be here
and will always dominate the spectrums that they with many others
created.
Some cartidges like the .17 Rem, .220 swift, .244 ....... deserve
mention for what they are.
So I think the right choice does not always have to be the perfect
cartridge. In most cases.... just the adequate cartridge.
my opinions are my own.
$bry...@brandonu.ca
Hello.
I have just started following this debate between the 30-06 and 30-30,
so if I am repeating anything already rehashed, then please ingnore
this.
I have to agree hole-heartedly with the fellow who mentioned the 308.
One very nice calibre. 'Nuff sead.
But what about the 25-06. It seems to me that this is a very nice
calibre in the open. Granted, I wouldn't use it in the bush (there
I'd use something in the '30-calibre range) but in the open, I'm sure
it has more than enough power to kill a deer (not moose or elk, just
deer) from ANY range you can safely take a shot from (ie. without
wounding the animal). And it has a nice, flat trajectory. - Seems
ideal for deer.
Now in the bush hunting the moose or elk, I'd probably go to a larger
calibre than a 30-30 or 30-06. Most cases, this is all that you need.
But a friend of mine once took a head shot at a moose facing him. He
could hear the shot rebound off his skull. It just make the moose mad
at him. And I have heard of this happening to other hunters as well.
Because of that, I would go to something in the range of a 300-mag.
But for in the bush hunting moose or elk, I just use my 45-70 -
perfect for close shots in the bush.
Robert Bryce
bry...@brandonu.ca