243/06 WILDCAT RIFLE
Darrell Udelhoven
bullets the 243/06 Wildcat Rifle has the qualities I like. I had it
built way back in the 1960's. I also have a 722 Remington in 243
Winchester caliber.
I like the new 55 grain Nosler bullets in the standard .243 rifle. The
recoil is minimal..
Does anyone out there own a 243/06 Wildcat rifle? Have you shot deer,
coyotes, and fox with it?
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rutledge
>
> I love the .243 caliber for varmints and deer and with the heavier
> bullets the 243/06 Wildcat Rifle has the qualities I like. I had it
> built way back in the 1960's. I also have a 722 Remington in 243
> Winchester caliber.
>
> I like the new 55 grain Nosler bullets in the standard .243 rifle. The
> recoil is minimal..
>
> Does anyone out there own a 243/06 Wildcat rifle? Have you shot deer,
> coyotes, and fox with it?
Darrell -
if you don't mind, I'd like more information about your .243/06 rifle.
I'm buying a .25-'06 to possibly, eventually convert in that direction.
I've played around with most all of the popular .22 cal and .25 caliber
cartridges, but I have only minimal experience with the 6mms, though I
like what I've seen so far.
Load info? Chronograph results? Case life? Barrel life? Info on the
rifle ... barrel maker, gunsmith who did the work, type of stock,
trigger, etc ... all would be most interesting to me.
Thanks!
Tom
JCBDC
I ordered one from a gunsmith in Wisconsin Rapids, WI and he died before he
could finish the gun. I have shot one and it was great. I use a .270 for deer
and bigger and a 22-250 for varmits but have always thought about the 243/06
would be better.
Joe Birdwell
Vince Y., NRA Life, NC
<udar...@pcii.net> wrote:
>I love the .243 caliber for varmints and deer and with the heavier
>bullets the 243/06 Wildcat Rifle has the qualities I like. I had it
>built way back in the 1960's. I also have a 722 Remington in 243
>Winchester caliber.
>
Why bother with the hassle of custom dies and forming brass. You just
need a .240 Weatherby.
>I like the new 55 grain Nosler bullets in the standard .243 rifle. The
>recoil is minimal..
>
>Does anyone out there own a 243/06 Wildcat rifle? Have you shot deer,
>coyotes, and fox with it?
>
IMHO, what you propose is WAY TOO MUCH rifle for a coyote of fox.
Unless of course you WANT to blow the hide to smithereens.
And since the idea is to call them in CLOSE, why do you need such a
cannon?
The coyotes I've seen and shot at were all under 100 yards. Most
under 50.
I thought my .223 was too much. I've been considering a .17 just for
varmints.
For an all-round rifle, I think what you already have (standard .243)
is ideal.
Scotty
>
> I love the .243 caliber for varmints and deer and with the heavier
> bullets the 243/06 Wildcat Rifle has the qualities I like. I had it
> built way back in the 1960's. I also have a 722 Remington in 243
> Winchester caliber.
>
> recoil is minimal..
>
> Does anyone out there own a 243/06 Wildcat rifle? Have you shot deer,
> coyotes, and fox with it?
>
> groups.
>
One of my friends has a 24-06, he doesn't call it a 243-06, he calls
it a 6-06
Therew is nothing wrong with the 24-06, they are awsome.
I used to be a big fan of 300 magnum and up powerhosues... power
power power..
even I a old weightlifter 6'3 and 240 lbs.. all this recoil adds up on
you... sure you can handle it, but it will ruin your shooting, can you
say "flinch"..
Still have my M70 .300 win mag with simmons 6-18x40mm AO. I put some
rubber weights on the end of the bbl, groups went from avg of 1.1 to 0.8
(cuts the vibrations down in sportr weight bbls)..
I decided I wanted smaller caliber. Now the .222, 222 magnum, 223,
22-250, 224 weatherby, 220 swift are great.. have some good knockdown
power ... they are accurate at 100-300 yrs like nothing else... But
400-500 yards the .22's are CRAP, the small bullets do not hold up good
past 400 yrs (now don't get me wrong my friends 220 swift has gotten 1
inch at 400 3 shot groups ( but this isn't normal for .22 and his
doesn't hold this very often, and he has TONS of time into it), but his
25's always do better over 300 yrs on avg..
In my mind, nothing beats the 24's and 25's, any smaller, and they
have no accurcy over 300-400 yard, and not much knockdown power at those
ranes either, even on Coyotes.
My Ruger M77 Hvy Varmit (Stainless matt) BBL in 26" tube, in 25-06 is
hard to beat, a just slightly too much recoil for ultimate accurcy...
but add some lead to the stock, and it's better, I glass beded
it...smoothed the crown... shot 20 rnds, forming brass, each time I
cleaned it good... broke in well... I've gotten 1.7 inchs at 400 yrs on
a PORTABLE bench rest. 0.19 inch 3 shots at 100 .
I shoot Sierra 75 HP's with H4350 ... (been 4 yrs since I last loaded
it forget charge)... the 85 Nosler BT's got the best..
all my brass is weighed, turned down 30-06's (thicker neck), turned
necks, pocked uniforms, neck sized, bench rest seaters..
Let me sy a 24. probbaly would have suited me better... they kick
less.. although the 24-06 would have more kick than a .243 .. a little
more speed..
The .244 or 6mm Remington is a GOOD choice, not as powerful as the
24-06, slightly more than the .243 win... and much more knockdown on
bigger game than the dinky .22's
Did you know the .243 is carried by more guids on big game than .30's,
did you know the .243 and .220 swift have a better recrod of one shot
kills on deer than the 30-06 and .300 magnums.. WHY or HOW you might
ask...
it's not the power, but bullet placments, many 30 caliber owners
"FLINCH"..
The .243's and 6mm's are best.... the 25-06 would be can be better,
but you HAVE to ass weight to an already hvt bbl gun
what about the 224 weatherby or 257 WQeatherby... JUNK them..
fro one, they are sporter weight... small tubes vibrate too much for
best accurcy...
better to place a 3300 fps round into the heart than a 3700 fps round
into the thighs..
and moe important, is the Magnums have BELT.. BESTs are not very
uniform in size, so weighing the brass doesn't give you a practcle
internal volume messurment. unless you have a ton of brass and money to
fire test each rnd 10 time to avg the velocitiy.
magnum require alot of powder, alot of powder need alot of weight ..
factory rifles are not 30 lbs like custom ones that get good results
are..
the 400 Rigbly case is the best you can get for 30's, same as the .378
and .460, but no belt
also the 24-284 is a good wildcat... holds as much powder as a
24-06, is a little fatter, and shoter... fits a short action.. shorter
fatter cases are said to be more accurate.. but even though the -06
cases are long, they somehow are ones that are just inheritly accurate
by chance of luck..
I know several 25 cal rifles in 25-06 and one in .257 Robert that get
2 icnhs all day at 400 yrds from a sound bench with 5 shots, sometimes
going down to under an inch at 400 yrds.. mine is one of them, although
not the best of them.
Love those 24 and 25's
Scott
Jim Derichsweiler
it has plenty of capacity, old PO Ackley would say that it is overbore.
Jim
Darrell Udelhoven wrote:
>
> Great post Scott,
>
> I didn't know the guides were that high on the .243's. Bullet placement is the
> key.
>
> I believe there would be a market for a 24 caliber belt less magnum. I like
> the idea of a 24 cal. magnum that would fit the shorter action! The heavier
> high [.430] ballistic coefficient [Speer] .243 boat tail bullets should do
> well out to 500.
>
> My page below is a little extreme but I did it for fun. Click on the "Web
> Ballistics Input Page," near the bottom.
>
> http://www.pcii.net/~udarrell/leadingrunninggamerifle.html
>
> I believe the .243 mags should have a 1 in 12 twist for the lighter weight
> bullets. I'm not even going to try the 55 grain bullet in my 1 in 10 twist,
> 24/06. My standard .243 with 1 in 10, 22" barrel seems to do okay with the 55
> grain bullets. But I haven't given it a decent test yet.
Darrell Udelhoven
> What's wrong with the 6mm-284? Rebated case may be finicky feeding, but
> it has plenty of capacity, old PO Ackley would say that it is overbore.
> Jim
I agree! My 6mm/06 was built back in the 1960's and I using cheap
military 30/06 cases.
I would have preferred a shorter action cartridge, but it was very
accurate back when I could hold and shoot well in the 1960's and 70's. It
would shoot 3 shot jagged holes at 100 yards. I didn't measure the groups,
but I knew that was as good as I could hold!
Lutz Möller
>
> Jim Derichsweiler wrote:
>
> > What's wrong with the 6mm-284? Rebated case may be finicky feeding, but
> > it has plenty of capacity, old PO Ackley would say that it is overbore.
> > Jim
>
> I agree! My 6mm/06 was built back in the 1960's and I using cheap
> military 30/06 cases.
>
> I would have preferred a shorter action cartridge, but it was very
> accurate back when I could hold and shoot well in the 1960's and 70's. It
> would shoot 3 shot jagged holes at 100 yards. I didn't measure the groups,
> but I knew that was as good as I could hold!
The wonderful commercial cartridge, equivalent to the 6mm-06 is the 6 x
62 Frères.
Info from Günther Fréres, Lissweg 12, 76327 Pfinztal, +49.7240.7428
Lutz
--
mailto:l.mo...@snafu.de
http://www.snafu.de/~l.moeller/
Tom Rutledge
>
> What's wrong with the 6mm-284? Rebated case may be finicky feeding, but
> it has plenty of capacity, old PO Ackley would say that it is overbore.
> Jim
In principle, I'd agree. In application, there's a problem.
Winchester has quit producing the parent .284 case and the supply of
.284 cases has pretty well dried up. Norma, I think, is planning to
produce brass, and if they do, it'll probably be very high quality ...
with a price to match ... more than double the cost of WW cases.
.25-'06 cases are comparatively cheap and easy to find.
Unless something dramatic happens to increase the supply and decrease
the cost of .284 brass, I'd probably look at a shortened belted case of
the same capacity first ... lotta work, but at least there's a brass
supply.
Tom
David J. McBride
news:37C56F...@sou.edu...
|
| . . . .I'd probably look at a shortened belted case of the same capacity
first ... lotta work, but at least there's a brass supply.
Tom:
Perhaps I missed something earlier in this thread but I am curious as to
why a belted case? I thought current trends were away from belted cases,
ala Lazzeroni or Rick Jamison's wildcats.
--
David J. McBride
Houston, Texas
Tom Rutledge
>
> Tom Rutledge <rutl...@sou.edu> wrote in message
> news:37C56F...@sou.edu...
> |
> | . . . .I'd probably look at a shortened belted case of the same capacity
> first ... lotta work, but at least there's a brass supply.
>
> Tom:
> Perhaps I missed something earlier in this thread but I am curious as to
> why a belted case? I thought current trends were away from belted cases,
> ala Lazzeroni or Rick Jamison's wildcats.
Granted, that seems to be the trend. I wouldn't put too much on that.
The discussion was about how to get "more" from a 6mm cartridge.
Someone offered the 6mmX.284 as an option.
The problem is brass availablity and cost since Winchester quit
producing the parent .284 case. Availability is not such a problem with
Lazzeroni cases, but cost is, particularly with only a single supplier.
About $2 per empty case, at least for 7.82 Warbird. (My bro in law has
one.) .404 Jeffery brass is similarly expensive everywhere I've seen
it. That's in the ballpark with .338 Lapua!! Ouch. Weatherby brass is
also available for the .240, but at roughly $1 per case.
My suggestion is, there are two basic cases readily available with more
capacity than the .308 or 7x57 (thinking parent to .243 and 6mm rem)
which are reasonably priced. '06, and "short" H&H, represented by
.25-'06 and 7mm mag. Cost, in bulk, runs from $.30 to $.45 per case,
making these much more palatable to someone who wants/needs to have 500
or more cases on hand for bulk varminting or paper punching.
I don't think there's a LOT of purpose for a 6mm on a 2.5" belted case,
but certainly you could push the shoulder back and shorten the neck,
probably coming out with something like the old 6.5 Rem Mag case, necked
to 6mm. That is a bit of work, so it depends on how you figure your
time into the picture. For some it is extra fun, for some it is extra
cost.
The easy solution for that level of performance, though, is a simple
6mm-'06.
It will be interesting in the future to see whether the Remington
"Ultra" case "makes it" commercially. It could be the solution to the
"need" for relatively inexpensive, larger diameter, beltless cases.
Truth is, though, there's no reason to avoid belted cases. It's
strictly a fad. I don't think I've ever loaded one to headspace
anywhere but the shoulder. While the belt isn't needed, it isn't a
problem, either. It's just ... there.
Tom
David J. McBride
availability and/or the cost of cases; and everything you say is spot-on.
But, I know that for me (and I suspect for you and most of the people
that frequent the lists as well), if I'm going to go to the time, trouble,
and expense of putting together a wildcat-chambered custom or semi-custom
rig I'm not going to let the cost of brass sway my cartridge decision. Just
guessing 50 or 60 cents per case for Norma .284 WIN brass seems like a
bargain when compared to some of the other cartridge options you've touched
on. Then again I don't foresee needing 500 rounds (don't do prairie dogs)
for *any* of the rigs I load for. Doesn't mean someone else won't want mass
quantities. I've only got 102 Norma cases (0.54 each) fireformed for the
.280 Ackley and expect those to last me eight or ten years.
I've given up just about every other hobby (read vice) I ever had to
concentrate [what little time I have] on accuracy shooting (poor student)
and hunting (fair). I spent more than $800 in the last year for two
barrels, not to mention glass, rings, mounts, components, range time . . . .
I'm certainly not telling you anything you don't already know. And I'm
going the cheap route. You know, too, that one can spend way, way lots
more.
If it's a 6mm wildcat, I could see doing a 6/.284. I feel safe in
saying that every year or two somebody, somewhere will make a "special run"
of .284 brass. Then again, why not just a 6mm Remington Ackley. My friend
in Austin is cranking out 4000+ with the 55 grain Ballistic Tip. How much
more velocity could the 6/.284 do anyway?
--
David J. McBride
Houston, Texas
Tom Rutledge <rutl...@sou.edu> wrote in message
news:37C6A3...@sou.edu...
| The discussion was about how to get "more" from a 6mm cartridge.
| Someone offered the 6mmX.284 as an option.
|
| The problem is brass availablity and cost since Winchester quit
| producing the parent .284 case. Availability is not such a problem with
| Lazzeroni cases, but cost is, particularly with only a single supplier.
| About $2 per empty case, at least for 7.82 Warbird. (My bro in law has
| one.) .404 Jeffery brass is similarly expensive everywhere I've seen
| it. That's in the ballpark with .338 Lapua!! Ouch. Weatherby brass is
| also available for the .240, but at roughly $1 per case.
|
| My suggestion is, there are two basic cases readily available with more
| capacity than the .308 or 7x57 (thinking parent to .243 and 6mm rem)
| which are reasonably priced. '06, and "short" H&H, represented by
| .25-'06 and 7mm mag. Cost, in bulk, runs from $.30 to $.45 per case,
| making these much more palatable to someone who wants/needs to have 500
| or more cases on hand for bulk varminting or paper punching.
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Tom Rutledge
the 6mm improved gives. One reason might be, again, case availability.
At least one of my die-hard 6mm-shootin' friends is leaning towards some
other cartridge since he can't find new WW-headstamped 6mm brass. (I
suggested WW +P .257 Roberts, neck turned.)
On the other hand, if you already have a long action, what the heck ...
why NOT go with a 6mm-'06 if you're gonna wildcat? It isn't like more
speed is a bad thing if you have the discipline not to overheat a
barrel.
Think about this ... 6mm, 1-12" twist will handle bullets to 90 grains
and 1-14" twist will handle 70 grain bullets, perhaps a fuzz heavier.
You start talking about .220 Swift speeds, higher BC so better retained
velocity, with bullets heavy enough to really fling some chunks when
they get there. Surely, you give up some barrel life, but then ... I
have a FINE .223 for the close stuff and the fast 'n' furious shooting.
Tom
Tom Poulin
Have you seen any loads for
6mm-284 using IMR 7828?
Tom