6 month old GSP swimming question

[TD]

I am doing some water conditioning of my 6 month old GSP.

She's been in the water about 10 to 15 times now. She appears to love
the water, playing and jumping in and swimming in circles for minutes
at a time.

When she swims, she sticks her front paws out of the water and
splashes. Most of the time, she snaps at the splashing water with her
mouth as if it's a game, trying to catch the splashes. Even when not
snapping at the water, she brings her whole paw out of the water. It
does not look very effecient.

My questions is this:

Is that a puppy/inexperience thing that she will grow out of ?

I'm a little worried that if she keeps swimming like that, she'll
develop a bad habit and it will stay with her.

If you think it's a puppy thing, how long should I let it go on?

If I should try to stop it, any suggestions on how?

Thanks, TD

[Ken McDaniel]

TD,
My 16 month old Lab just started the very same thing a few weeks ago. He
never did this before I started to work him on lining to pile in water. He
won't do it when he retrieves marks however. I have just started "swim-by"
and he has just about quit the antics, but may still try it once in a while.
He even rolled completely over like an otter yesterday when I whistle
stopped him.
Since your dog is still young, I doubt you have a real concern. Hopefully we
will both get some advise from more experienced trainers.
Try getting the pup exited and see if she forgets about this while fetching
a mark.

Ken Mc

[TD]

Thanks Ken.

I hope an expert helps too.

The last time we went out, I tossed a small plastic bottle in front of
her (a favorite chew item) as she was returning to shore. She did
momentarily keep her paws down but just to get it. She splashed before
and after.

Land retrieving is not her favorite thing so I do it very little at
this point. About one throw per day. Maybe the water will help keep
it interesting.

I guess I'm lucky so far. She finds quail, points and picks it up
after the shot. I can tell, though, she wants to keep it instead of
coming back to me. A few times I ran across her field of view after
she picked up the bird and she came but she is wise to that now.

Anyway, I'm off the topic. Good luck with the Lab.

TD

[Ken McDaniel]

TD, I think you mentioned a problem that may become way more serious than
the swimming issue. While I am new to retrievers, I have trained and hunted
Brittanys since before "versatile" became cool, :-). I never trained my
Britts for water, because I didn't duck hunt, and a water retrieve was a
rare event. I suppose I was fortunate, when game did fall in the water, they
always retrieved without hesitation. Force fetch/retrieve is often (or at
least it used to be) a hard pill for pointing dog people to swallow, and
sometimes it's a tough ordeal, but it is well worth the pain. Your GSP
should be soon if not already past teething, and it would be a good time of
year to do the force fetch training. If you take your time and do it right,
it will be something that you will always be very glad you did.
I fear that if you let the "not returning to you" go too long, if may get
much worse.

[TD]

Thanks again Ken. Maybe it will be just you and me talking :-)

I will not let the keep away games continue much longer. Like you say,
we pointer people focus on other things first. At least this pointer
person does.

This is my first pointer and the first dog I've ever trained to hunt.
I read a bunch of books, picked out a system that sounded good to me
(Larry Mueller) and have had more luck than I ever thought possible.

Since she is young, having a lot of fun and, so far, willing to please,
I'll keep focusing on what she likes to do and keep working on positive
ways to get her to bring things back.

Your post actually made me retry something that I put away for a month
or two. The almight hotdog treat. There is nothing she won't do for a
chunk of hotdog. In the past when I tried "bring something to me =
treat for you", she lost all focus and only kept looking for more
treats so I put it away. Today, however, she did refocus and actually
brought back a goose toy and Air Kong 5+ times all the way to my feet.
If it continues to work, I'll slowly remove the treats from the
equation and see what happens.

If things don't go my way, like you say, force fetch training is likely
to work.

Now, if she could only swim....

[Ken McDaniel]

Good luck TD! Another book you may want to try is the NAVHDA training book.
I think they go a little over board for what most people want in a pointing
gun dog on some things, but have a lot of sound basic principals. The
training table in there is the best thing since sliced bread in my book. If
you having been using one, as the old commercial says, "try it, you'll like
it! :-)

I'm betting that if you continue to work her in the water - your/her problem
will go away. :-)

[Larka Smallwood]

Have you taken the dogs out on a "play date" with other dogs who swim
better? I had 2 adult black labs when I allowed my husband to "rescue" a 4
month old yellow lab (a couple of yuppies had it and the wife was on the way
to the pound with him after he shredded some lawn chair cushions)

This dog had just started the adolescent growth spurt and by the time we
introduced him to deep water, he had lost all his puppy fat. That is the way
that he swam...splash, splash, splash...and his butt kept sinking...

I started taking him swimming every day with a friend and her young adult
lab in a tank by the house...we just played fetch a little with sticks and
let the older lab "teach" the younger one, so to speak...

It may be that your dog just needs more exposure to the water and and
experienced dog to copy from in a non-stress way.

Larka

-----Original Message-----
From: Gun Dog discussion list [mailto:GUND...@listserv.tamu.edu] On Behalf
Of TD

Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 11:18 AM
To: GUND...@listserv.tamu.edu

[Jim Seidl]

I'm not very computer savvy, so I hope this gets to you, TD:

The simple answer is: she's a young dog. They develop at different paces
and have different aptitudes. Sounds like you have a pup that enjoys the
water. In my opinion, perhaps the worst thing that handlers can do is
over-analyze and over-train young dogs. If she enjoys the water now, and
you've chose a regimen for training, stay the course. Someone else
mentioned the NAVHDA green book, which I think is an excellent resource for
someone training a versatile dog.

For what it's worth, I had a GSP that I picked up at 18 months. She would
not enter the water, despite coaxing (with waders) on a hot day, after a
run, etc. I released a duck in front of her and she instantly became a
water dog--planed out and chased. This dog later became a, "bobber."
Meaning one that would do a tip-up to catch a duck clinging to underwater
vegetation. The best waterfowl dog I've had--and I've raised and trained a
variety of breeds and several GSP/DKs.

Keep the e-collar and your patience in check. She'll come around. Enjoy
that she enjoys it.

Jim

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