Origin of fucker
R 6061 Mr Lee/Chaudhry
michael thomas fassbender
>
>ORIGIN OF THE WORD FUCK
>
>
> I came across a possible non-explicit origin for the word
>*fucker*. While researching the term *pettifogger* (an unscrupulous
>lawyer) in the _Oxford English Dictionary_, I found some interring
>material under the term *Fogger*
I have some *serious* doubts about this. The current form
of the German word is ficken (ich ficke, du fickst, er/sie/es fickt,
usw. usf.). Technically, the noun form would be Ficker, but I have
no knowledge of its use in German.
According to my German Etymological Dictionary (_Duden
Herkunftswoerterbuch_), Ficken entered the German language probably
in the 16th century or so, and is a form of an archaic term for
"to rub". This strikes me as more plausible than a relation to
the Fugger family.
Even this, however, strikes me as far too recent an origin
for the term. The German "ficken", the English "fuck" and the
French cognate (unsure of the spelling, but in usage it is pronounced
"fou toi") are all too evidently similar to make coincidence a likely
conclusion. Given the very simple nature of the root obscenities,
it seems fair to trace many of them to the Indo-European root language
itself (I am personally aware of several cognates appearing in
English, German and Russian, at least). I'd guess that "fuck" entered
English through the Anglo-Saxon, but that's just a guess.
Does anyone have more information?
Jeff Cunningham
> Does anyone have more information?
From the book "Mother Tongue" by Bill Bryson:
"Fuck", it has been suggested, may have sprung from the Latin
"futuo", the French "foutre" or the German "ficken", all of which have
the same meaning. According to Montagu the word first appears in print
in 1503 in a poem by the Scottish poet William Dunbar. Although "fuck"
has been around for centuries, possibly millennia, for a long period it
fell out of general use. Before 1503, the vulgar word for sex was to
"swive".
end of quote.
-Jeff.
Archie Ballantine
> >ORIGIN OF THE WORD FUCK
> Does anyone have more information?
The Dutch verb 'fokken' means to breed.
For example, "Hij fokt konijnen" means he breeds rabbits.
** Standard disclaimer about the opinions being mine and nobody elses
Archie Ballantine balla...@nl101.ittpub.nl
ITT Gouden Gids BV "Trust me, I'm a Scotsman
Amsterdam, Holland and a socialist."
** Standard disclaimer about the opinions being mine and nobody elses
Jeff Raihanan
: > >ORIGIN OF THE WORD FUCK
: > Does anyone have more information?
: The Dutch verb 'fokken' means to breed.
The way I heard it, it comes from old England when people were
arrested for copulation in a "public place". The charge, For
Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. I heard this way before Van Halen's
album, so I'm not making this up. Really.
Bill Evans
Jeff Raihanan (jef...@agora.rdrop.com) made the following noteworthy contribution
to the highly esteemed collected works of rec.humor:
: The charge, For
: Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. I heard this way before Van Halen's
: album, so I'm not making this up. Really.
Legends, urban or otherwise, are never made up. They're just
taken as authentic and passed on.
-- Captain Nitpick
Larry Latouf
In an interview with Sammy Hagar, he said that the researched where
the term FUCK originated...and that is how the came up with For Unlawful
Carnal Knowledge.
--
-------------------------
Lawrence A. Latouf
lato...@gdls.com
-------------------------
michael thomas fassbender
>In article <Cr8o...@agora.rdrop.com>, jef...@agora.rdrop.com (Jeff Raihanan) writes:
>>
>> : The Dutch verb 'fokken' means to breed.
>>
>> The way I heard it, it comes from old England when people were
>> arrested for copulation in a "public place". The charge, For
>> Unlawful Carnal Knowledge. I heard this way before Van Halen's
>> album, so I'm not making this up. Really.
>
>In an interview with Sammy Hagar, he said that the researched where
>the term FUCK originated...and that is how the came up with For Unlawful
>Carnal Knowledge.
>
Look.
Van Halen is not a scholarly source.
Someone here mentioned a citation of the word being used in the
English language around 1503. I'd greatly appreciate it if
that individual, or someone else with similar information,
could forward it to me.
But please, can we get beyond Van Halen, 17th Century Puritans
and urban legend acronyms? I've gotten way too much private
mail with that garbage already.
Jeff Cunningham
mfas...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu (michael thomas fassbender) writes:
> Someone here mentioned a citation of the word being used in the
> English language around 1503. I'd greatly appreciate it if
> that individual, or someone else with similar information,
> could forward it to me.
The reference is in "The Anatomy of Swearing" by Ashley Mantagu, New
York, Collier Books, 1967
According to Montagu the word first appears in print in 1503 in a poem
by the Scottish poet William Dunbar. I read this in the book "Mother
Tongue" by Bill Bryson, William Morrow & Co. Bryson lists the Montagu
book as a reference.
-Jeff.
Bill Evans
Larry Latouf (lato...@gdls.com) made the following noteworthy contribution
to the highly esteemed collected works of rec.humor:
: the term FUCK originated...and that is how the came up with For Unlawful
: Carnal Knowledge.
Why didn't they use a dictionary as one of their research tools?
-- Captain Nitpick
Tim Nemec
a quote from the American Heritage Dictionary, Deluxe edition:
---------Start of quoted material----------------------------
WORD HISTORY: The obscenity fuck is a very old word, first recorded in English
in the 15th century. Age has not dimmed its shock value, even though it is seen
in print much more often now than in the past. Its first known occurrence, in a
poem entitled Flen flyys written sometime before 1500, is in code, illustrating
the unacceptability of the word even then. The poem, composed in a mixture of
Latin and English, satirizes the Carmelite friars of Cambridge, England, with
the title taken from the first words of the poem, Flen, flyys, and freris, that
is, fleas, flies, and friars. The line that contains fuck reads Non sunt in
coeli, quia gxddbov xxkxzt pg ifmk. The Latin words Non sunt in coeli, quia
mean they [the friars] are not in heaven, since. The code gxddbov xxkxzt pg
ifmk is easily broken by simply writing the preceding letter in the alphabet.
As we decode, we must watch for differences in the alphabet and in spelling
between then and now. For g write f; for x, v (used for u and v); d, c; b, a;
o, n; v, t; xx, vv (which equals w); k, i; x, v; z, y; t, s; p, o; g, f; i, h;
f, e; m, l; and for k, i. This yields fvccant [a fake Latin form] vvivys of
heli. The whole thus reads in translation: They are not in heaven because they
fuck wives of Ely [a town near Cambridge].
--------End of quoted material ------------
alt.folklore.urban has also addresed this issue, specifically debunking
the "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" origin. I think they even have
a FAQ on it at rtfm.mit.edu
Peter Cox
: > >ORIGIN OF THE WORD FUCK
: > Does anyone have more information?
: The Dutch verb 'fokken' means to breed.
I had heard that it came from the expression "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge"
--
Cheers,
Peter
St Ives
: Archie Ballantine (balla...@nl101.ittpub.nl) wrote:
: : > >ORIGIN OF THE WORD FUCK
: : > Does anyone have more information?
: : The Dutch verb 'fokken' means to breed.
: I had heard that it came from the expression "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge"
I had heard Fornication Under the Crown of the King...
whavens on BIX
David R Hassel
It's not an acronym, but derived from an ancient Saxon word for 'to
breed'. I think it is similar to the Dutch verb above. That's what
we've come up with when we've had the discussion before.
Dave
Bill Evans
St Ives (sti...@gate.net) made the following noteworthy contribution
to the highly esteemed collected works of rec.humor:
I had heard "Fornication under the Consent of the King", but none
of these "Fornication..." explanations are accurate.
-- Captain Nitpick
Lyle Davis
In Elizabethan times (i.e. the time of Shakespeare,
which is whence most dirty words originate), there were a whole
bunch of laws prohibiting people from having sex with each
other. Most of these were anti-prostitution laws, but we all
know how uptight those 16th-century Engish blokes were about
people having a good time with one another. And so, each night,
the bobbies (or the earlier version of the British police) would
go around and round up all the people having illicit intercourse
with one another and lock them up in jail for the night.
Now of course, even back then, you had to keep books and
make lots of red tape (they just didn't have printers or
photocopiers, so their red tape couldn't be mass-produced). So
every person who was brought into the station house had to be
listed, along with the "crime" that he or she committed. And
all those blokes who had had naughty wonka-wonka relations were
listed as being brought in "for unlawful carnal knowledge."
Now human beings, like most vertebrates, have a tendency
to fornicate no matter what the prudes tell them. So the loads
of "for unlawful carnal knowledge"-ers became pretty heavy from
night to night. For this reason, the bookkeepers began to
abbreviate their entry as "f.**k." Eventually, the periods were
dropped and the word entered the vernacular as a mono- syllable.
Soon after, it became a full-fledged verb, with past tenses and
participles and gerunds and the whole works.
And now everybody seems to be having a f***ing miserable
time of it.
----
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daffy!
the Dutch/AngloSaxzon theme =) in first person singular (he she it) it would
be congugated as "fickt" in present day. I also know that it is used today
just as we use the verb "fuck" ie. "Er war ein guter Ficker" means that 'He
was a goo d fuck" and "Sie fickt ihn." ('she fucks him')
BTW: my German isn't the greatest, but I hope that this helps.
Dory
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Christ van Willegen
>be congugated as "fickt" in present day. I also know that it is used today
>just as we use the verb "fuck" ie. "Er war ein guter Ficker" means that 'He
>was a goo d fuck" and "Sie fickt ihn." ('she fucks him')
A story my girlfriend told me (so if it's joke, it's original (by her)!)
She was on vacation in Germany, with another family. The other family
had a girl, named "Fieke" (Dutch name, pronounced as German 'Ficken').
One day, the little girl was lost, so they shouted all over the camping
place: "Fieke, Fieke!".... Imagine walking around, shouting "Fuck,
Fuck..."
> BTW: my German isn't the greatest, but I hope that this helps.
Yup, it sure did!
Christ van Willegen