Canadian Pilots Down American Top Guns
Doug Skrecky
A lone Canadian airforce team faced off against six America
contingents in the latest Top Gun competition. The Americans flew F-15C
Eagles, F-15E Strike Eagles and F-17 Fighting Falcons. The Canadians flew
aging econojets (F-18 Hornets). The winner was........
You guessed it: The highly skilled Canadians flew rings around the
Americans, beat the stuffing out of them and then blew them all out of the
sky! The General Daniel (Chappie) James Jr. Fighter Interceptor Team
Award trophy now resides at aptly named Cold Lake, Alberta. The best
individual score in aerial combat was earned by Captain Steve Nierlich,
who is as you will not be surprised to hear, a Canadian pilot. Cold Lake
now has the Top Gun award as well.
NATO currently has an agreement to train its fighter pilots at
Sheppard Air Force Base in Wichita Falls, Tex. NATO has recommended that
this agreement not be renewed and instead the business be given to Cold
Lake.
In the air it seems that it is Canadians who rule, eh?
Ghost in the Machine
Not to nitpick, but there is no such thing as a F-17. The Fighting
Falcon is a F-16. OTOH, I'm not surprised the F-15's lost to a F-18,
the F-15 was developed as an interceptor, and doesn't have the
dogfighting ability that a F-18 does. As to why the F-16 lost is still
a mystery, it should be able to turn and burn with the newer F-18.
BUT! If you REALLY want to compare "aging econojets", I read a
report where a Taiwanese colonel in a measely F-5 won the contest
against a red flag "aggresor" colonel flying a F-15D. But then again,
like I said earlier, different planes have different abilities, the
F-15 just isn't built to fool around in tight spaces, they shoot the
enemy down from a longer distance before the enemy can shoot
them down. Yes, it's that simple.
DickHead
Doug Skrecky wrote:
>
> A lone Canadian airforce team faced off against six America
> contingents in the latest Top Gun competition. The Americans flew F-15C
> Eagles, F-15E Strike Eagles and F-17 Fighting Falcons. The Canadians flew
> aging econojets (F-18 Hornets). The winner was........
> You guessed it: The highly skilled Canadians flew rings around the
> Americans, beat the stuffing out of them and then blew them all out of the
> sky! The General Daniel (Chappie) James Jr. Fighter Interceptor Team
> Award trophy now resides at aptly named Cold Lake, Alberta. The best
> individual score in aerial combat was earned by Captain Steve Nierlich,
> who is as you will not be surprised to hear, a Canadian pilot. Cold Lake
> now has the Top Gun award as well.
> NATO currently has an agreement to train its fighter pilots at
> Sheppard Air Force Base in Wichita Falls, Tex. NATO has recommended that
> this agreement not be renewed and instead the business be given to Cold
> Lake.
> In the air it seems that it is Canadians who rule, eh?
You really need to check your facts on this one bonehead!!!
There is no such thing as an F-17 fighting Falcon, it is the F-16
Falcon that the US Air force flies.
The F-18 is the US navy's topline fighter, it is no aging econo jet.
The F-20 was the econo jet, but no one bought it, nuf said.
Top Gun is a US Navy term and school, and there is not an award that
goes with that name. An award is given to the top pilot/rio pair
(F-14), pilot (F/A-18) of each top gun class, and there has not been a
top canadian to earn this distinction ever!!!
Get your facts straight before opening your slimy mouth.
Canadians rule only in their own mind, come out and play with the navy
and you will find the water cold and deep.
Boomer
Mark S.
Doug Skrecky wrote:
>
> A lone Canadian airforce team faced off against six America
> contingents in the latest Top Gun competition. The Americans flew F-15C
> Eagles, F-15E Strike Eagles and F-17 Fighting Falcons. The Canadians flew
> aging econojets (F-18 Hornets). The winner was........
> You guessed it: The highly skilled Canadians flew rings around the
> Americans, beat the stuffing out of them and then blew them all out of the
> sky! The General Daniel (Chappie) James Jr. Fighter Interceptor Team
> Award trophy now resides at aptly named Cold Lake, Alberta. The best
> individual score in aerial combat was earned by Captain Steve Nierlich,
> who is as you will not be surprised to hear, a Canadian pilot. Cold Lake
> now has the Top Gun award as well.
My Doug, what a small world. I never expected to see this on Rec.Humor, but
my brother was one of the chief engineers on the American team that built the
Top Gun station in Cold Lake back in 81 or 82. I'll send him a printout of
your post, I'm sure he'll get a kick out of reading it.
Mark S.
DickHead wrote:
>
> There is no such thing as an F-17 fighting Falcon, it is the F-16
> Falcon that the US Air force flies.
But do you have to B-17 years old to fly the F-16 Falcon?
Rick Pikul
In article <32895C...@USS.BOAT>, DickHead <Navy...@USS.BOAT> wrote:
{Clipped item about fighter competition, note that the Canadians flew
CF-18s, not F/A-18s.}
>
>You really need to check your facts on this one bonehead!!!
>
>There is no such thing as an F-17 fighting Falcon, it is the F-16
>Falcon that the US Air force flies.
That was most likey a typo.
>Top Gun is a US Navy term and school, and there is not an award that
>goes with that name. An award is given to the top pilot/rio pair
>(F-14), pilot (F/A-18) of each top gun class, and there has not been a
>top canadian to earn this distinction ever!!!
If you would care to check the press reports, it was being called the
'Top Gun' competition well before his post. IOW, don't blame him, blame the
reporters.
>
>Get your facts straight before opening your slimy mouth.
>
>Canadians rule only in their own mind, come out and play with the navy
>and you will find the water cold and deep.
Of course, that's why we kept putting your carriers at the bottom of
it. In NATO wargames RCN subs have 'sunk' _every_ US carrier at least once.
Phoenix, FALH
Dbear
Actually, Dickhead was right, the CF-18 that the Canadians fly and the
F/A-18 that the US Navy flies are both the same airframe built by
McDonald Douglas, they differ only in avionics, which do not effect
turning and burning capability. AND to say they are aging is kinda
misleading because they are still being built for both the US Navy and
the Canadians (the australians also fly this plane).
He also mentioned the F-15E, which is a strike aircraft, which means it
is primarily a bomber. Of course you can beat it in a dogfight.
Granted the Top Gun term is used in the press, but again, to say that
the Canadians have taken the Top Gun award home in addition to the Air
Force award is wrong. Dickhead was right again, there is no award.
AND your little statement about the pathetic little RCN subs, of course
they can in wargames, thats why they call them wargames. Do you
actually think they are going to make it past the Los Angeles Class subs
that defend the carriers? Why do think they have to put noisemakers on
them just to play with you.
Settle for taking home the trophy for an air force competition in a
friendly wargame and quit there, you would have to be insane to think
that the Canadian air force and navy could stand up against the US Navy.
And before you boast, check your source, if you haven't figured out by
now that the press misses the facts, then you have no business reading
that crap.
TBear
Bill Gross
Dbear <tom...@ix.netcom.con> wrote:
deletia
>AND your little statement about the pathetic little RCN subs, of course
>they can in wargames, thats why they call them wargames. Do you
>actually think they are going to make it past the Los Angeles Class subs
>that defend the carriers? Why do think they have to put noisemakers on
>them just to play with you.
more deletia
>TBear
<Foolishly stepping into this conversation> It has long been rumored
that one of the ground rules of all the US Navy's war games over the
past twenty or so years is that carriers can't be sunk. Even if
someone were agressive and smart enough to get into position to shot,
it wasn't allowed.
Unfathomable in method Undaunted in Defeat Unbearable in Victory
Rick Pikul
In article <328AA7...@ix.netcom.con>, Dbear <tom...@ix.netcom.con> wrote:
>Rick Pikul wrote:
>>
>> In article <32895C...@USS.BOAT>, DickHead <Navy...@USS.BOAT> wrote:
>>
>> {Clipped item about fighter competition, note that the Canadians
flew
>> CF-18s, not F/A-18s.}
>>
{Foomph...}
>> >Top Gun is a US Navy term and school, and there is not an award that
>> >goes with that name. An award is given to the top pilot/rio pair
>> >(F-14), pilot (F/A-18) of each top gun class, and there has not been a
>> >top canadian to earn this distinction ever!!!
>>
>> If you would care to check the press reports, it was being called
the
>> 'Top Gun' competition well before his post. IOW, don't blame him, blame
the
>> reporters.
>>
>> >
>> >Get your facts straight before opening your slimy mouth.
>> >
>> >Canadians rule only in their own mind, come out and play with the navy
>> >and you will find the water cold and deep.
>>
>> Of course, that's why we kept putting your carriers at the bottom
of
>> it. In NATO wargames RCN subs have 'sunk' _every_ US carrier at least
once.
>>
>> Phoenix, FALH
>
>Actually, Dickhead was right, the CF-18 that the Canadians fly and the
>F/A-18 that the US Navy flies are both the same airframe built by
>McDonald Douglas, they differ only in avionics, which do not effect
>turning and burning capability. AND to say they are aging is kinda
>misleading because they are still being built for both the US Navy and
>the Canadians (the australians also fly this plane).
I was nit-picking, that's why it was in the clip comment. And there
are some _slight_ differences that would affect a dogfight (depending upon
your views on aspect deception.)
>
>He also mentioned the F-15E, which is a strike aircraft, which means it
>is primarily a bomber. Of course you can beat it in a dogfight.
>
>Granted the Top Gun term is used in the press, but again, to say that
>the Canadians have taken the Top Gun award home in addition to the Air
>Force award is wrong. Dickhead was right again, there is no award.
I never said he was wrong, just not to blame the first poster.
>
>AND your little statement about the pathetic little RCN subs, of course
>they can in wargames, thats why they call them wargames. Do you
>actually think they are going to make it past the Los Angeles Class subs
>that defend the carriers? Why do think they have to put noisemakers on
>them just to play with you.
Hint: A sub running on batteries is much quieter than a nuclear boat,
since it has no reactor noises. There is a reason why we are able to launch
our 'attacks' from _within_ your carrier groups.
Of course, most of the US military has a low opinon of wargames, which
goes a long way in explaning why the US has such a bad win/loss ratio in NATO
wargames.
>Settle for taking home the trophy for an air force competition in a
>friendly wargame and quit there, you would have to be insane to think
>that the Canadian air force and navy could stand up against the US Navy.
>And before you boast, check your source, if you haven't figured out by
>now that the press misses the facts, then you have no business reading
>that crap.
Another hint: I wasn't the person who posted with incorrect info,
perhaps you should check your read articles.
And if you want open war, may I remind you that you Americans have
tries to invade Canada three times, failing miserably each time? (Of course I
have no illusions about total war with current force levels, note that my
comment was based on the engagment level.)
Phoenix, FALH
BILL WATTS
-=> Quoting Gaven Miller to All <=-
GM> Ray Steel (rst...@titan.com) wrote:
> Terri Allen wrote:
> > In New Zealand there is "Waikikamookow" (sp?)
GM> "Waikikamukau" is the correct spelling of this fictitious placename.
> Bollocks, there is no such place.
> Its just a made up name meant to mean the back of beyond.
> Similar to Ekatahuna (which actually is a town).
I always heard it as "Why kick a moo cow?"
JT Murphy
bgr...@iadfw.net (Bill Gross) wrote:
>Dbear <tom...@ix.netcom.con> wrote:
>deletia
>>AND your little statement about the pathetic little RCN subs, of course
>>they can in wargames, thats why they call them wargames. Do you
>>actually think they are going to make it past the Los Angeles Class subs
>>that defend the carriers? Why do think they have to put noisemakers on
>>them just to play with you.
>more deletia
>>TBear
><Foolishly stepping into this conversation> It has long been rumored
>that one of the ground rules of all the US Navy's war games over the
>past twenty or so years is that carriers can't be sunk. Even if
>someone were agressive and smart enough to get into position to shot,
>it wasn't allowed.
>Unfathomable in method Undaunted in Defeat Unbearable in Victory
.
All this is a tad off topic, but as it's started: is there any record
of any 'F-ing' American or Canadian fighters beating a British
Harrier jet ? 'Friendly fire' apart...
Jez.
---------
Tipton,
UK,
*bostin'*
---------
Hawkmoon
obe...@vcn.bc.ca (Doug Skrecky) wrote:
> A lone Canadian airforce team faced off against six America
> contingents in the latest Top Gun competition. The Americans flew F-15C
> Eagles, F-15E Strike Eagles and F-17 Fighting Falcons. The Canadians flew
> aging econojets (F-18 Hornets). The winner was........
> You guessed it: The highly skilled Canadians flew rings around the
> Americans, beat the stuffing out of them and then blew them all out of the
> sky! The General Daniel (Chappie) James Jr. Fighter Interceptor Team
> Award trophy now resides at aptly named Cold Lake, Alberta. The best
> individual score in aerial combat was earned by Captain Steve Nierlich,
> who is as you will not be surprised to hear, a Canadian pilot. Cold Lake
> now has the Top Gun award as well.
> NATO currently has an agreement to train its fighter pilots at
> Sheppard Air Force Base in Wichita Falls, Tex. NATO has recommended that
> this agreement not be renewed and instead the business be given to Cold
> Lake.
> In the air it seems that it is Canadians who rule, eh?
Please no more excuses. You lost that one. Accept it, get used to
it and drive on.
Btw, the Cf-18's are the older models. We don't have the resources or
money to keep updating like the US Navy.
It all comes down to the better pilot in the seat at the time.
esrf...@duke.edu
That's great, except how likely is it that Canada and the US will get
into another war? American pilots train to fight pilots of the
Russian-trained persuasion. The US-Canadian border is the longest
undefended frontier in the world.
I do find it odd that a nation that prides itself on being so peaceful
and benevolent would be proud that it produces fighter pilots better at
killing than the pilots of the mean, nasty US. Hey, if this little
tidbit (which I have yet to find independent confirmation of, BTW) helps
to assuage the well-documented Canadian inferiority complex, then let's
keep spreading it around.
Oh, since your pilots are so great, we probably could have used a few
more of them during the Gulf War. Exactly how many did Canada
contribute? This is not a snide question, just a simple query.
Joseph F Boyd
obe...@vcn.bc.ca (Doug Skrecky) wrote:
> A lone Canadian airforce team faced off against six America
> contingents in the latest Top Gun competition. The Americans flew F-15C
> Eagles, F-15E Strike Eagles and F-17 Fighting Falcons. The Canadians flew
> aging econojets (F-18 Hornets). The winner was........
> You guessed it: The highly skilled Canadians flew rings around the
> Americans, beat the stuffing out of them and then blew them all out of the
> sky! The General Daniel (Chappie) James Jr. Fighter Interceptor Team
> Award trophy now resides at aptly named Cold Lake, Alberta. The best
> individual score in aerial combat was earned by Captain Steve Nierlich,
> who is as you will not be surprised to hear, a Canadian pilot. Cold Lake
> now has the Top Gun award as well.
> NATO currently has an agreement to train its fighter pilots at
> Sheppard Air Force Base in Wichita Falls, Tex. NATO has recommended that
> this agreement not be renewed and instead the business be given to Cold
> Lake.
> In the air it seems that it is Canadians who rule, eh?
Also not one to nitpick, but I have my doubts.
#1 - "Top Gun" as poularized in the movie, and in real life, is a
training ground for US Navy/USMC pilots. I may be wrong, but the
Navy/Marines generally don't fly F-15s or F-16s, those are USAF craft.
If this is the case, these pilots were in relatively unfamiliar
aircraft.
#2 - Who cares!!! This is the rec.humor newsgroup dumbass!!!
Joe Boyd
jfb...@mindspring.com
http://www.Geocities.com/CapitolHill/4200/index.html
David Griffiths
esrf...@duke.edu wrote:
: That's great, except how likely is it that Canada and the US will get
: into another war? American pilots train to fight pilots of the
: Russian-trained persuasion. The US-Canadian border is the longest
: undefended frontier in the world.
They train to be the best they possibly can, not to compete against each
other in conflict. Look up War of 1812 history books to see what the
results are when that happens.
: I do find it odd that a nation that prides itself on being so peaceful
: and benevolent would be proud that it produces fighter pilots better at
: killing than the pilots of the mean, nasty US. Hey, if this little
: tidbit (which I have yet to find independent confirmation of, BTW) helps
: to assuage the well-documented Canadian inferiority complex, then let's
: keep spreading it around.
"Would that you have peace, prepare yourself first for war"
: Oh, since your pilots are so great, we probably could have used a few
: more of them during the Gulf War. Exactly how many did Canada
: contribute? This is not a snide question, just a simple query.
Touche. Our government is great at lecturing but slow in producing action.
Jason Rodger
i really have a hard time calling the Gulf War a "war". I mean when it
came right down to it it was the US protecting their oil and making a big
whoopla about it. It would seem to me that the only reasons americans
enter into war at this point is so their presidents want to improve their
sagging popularity. Rent the movie "Canadian Bacon" (directed by Mike
MOore) and see what i mean.
******************************************************************************
Jason Rodger - Carleton University
~Happiness is having a large, loving, caring, close knit family: in another
city~ - George Burns
Email: jcro...@chat.carleton.ca
Phone: 1 (613) 523-0722
******************************************************************************
jim.c...@gmail.com
> >
> > A lone Canadian airforce team faced off against six America
> > contingents in the latest Top Gun competition. The Americans flew F-15C
> > Eagles, F-15E Strike Eagles and F-17 Fighting Falcons. The Canadians flew
> > aging econojets (F-18 Hornets). The winner was........
> > You guessed it: The highly skilled Canadians flew rings around the
> > Americans, beat the stuffing out of them and then blew them all out of the
> > sky! The General Daniel (Chappie) James Jr. Fighter Interceptor Team
> > Award trophy now resides at aptly named Cold Lake, Alberta. The best
> > individual score in aerial combat was earned by Captain Steve Nierlich,
> > who is as you will not be surprised to hear, a Canadian pilot. Cold Lake
> > now has the Top Gun award as well.
> > NATO currently has an agreement to train its fighter pilots at
> > Sheppard Air Force Base in Wichita Falls, Tex. NATO has recommended that
> > this agreement not be renewed and instead the business be given to Cold
> > Lake.
> > In the air it seems that it is Canadians who rule, eh?
>
>
> There is no such thing as an F-17 fighting Falcon, it is the F-16
> Falcon that the US Air force flies.
>
> The F-20 was the econo jet, but no one bought it, nuf said.
>
> goes with that name. An award is given to the top pilot/rio pair
> (F-14), pilot (F/A-18) of each top gun class, and there has not been a
> top canadian to earn this distinction ever!!!
>
>
> Canadians rule only in their own mind, come out and play with the navy
> and you will find the water cold and deep.
>
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/522817/CANADIANS-WIN-TOP-GUN-CONTEST-2-UTAHNS-ARE-ON-THE-NO-2-TEAM.html
The Horny Goat
>> Canadians rule only in their own mind, come out and play with the navy
>> and you will find the water cold and deep.
>>
>> Boomer
>
>https://www.deseretnews.com/article/522817/CANADIANS-WIN-TOP-GUN-CONTEST-2-UTAHNS-ARE-ON-THE-NO-2-TEAM.html
a Utah publication too funny for words. After all Great Salt Lake has
never been known for it's naval coverage.
In the unlikely event that the lake ever needed protection I'm sure
they'd call on the USAF from Colorado rather than the USN from
California!