Ordinary for Seibmacher

pool...@austarnet.com.au

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Jul 2, 2008, 7:51:30 AM7/2/08

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Hi all,
I am looking for a book I believe by Ottfried Neubecker which is an
ordinary based on seibmacher but I am ubable to remember the name, can
any one here help out?

Jeff

Turenne

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Jul 2, 2008, 2:46:08 PM7/2/08

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Hi. I've got Heraldry - Sources, Symbols and Meanings (1976); is that
it?

Others include:

'Wie finde ich ein Familienwappen'
'Kleine Wappenfibel'
'Deutsch und Franzosisch fur Heraliker'

Richard Lichten

davidappleton

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Jul 3, 2008, 10:15:14 AM7/3/08

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On Jul 2, 1:46 pm, Turenne <rick.lich...@virgin.net> wrote:
> Hi. I've got Heraldry - Sources, Symbols and Meanings (1976); is that
> it?

While that's a really good general heraldry book, it is most
definitely not an ordinary to Siebmacher.

David

Turenne

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Jul 3, 2008, 3:02:47 PM7/3/08

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You're right David, but the four books mentioned above were the only
ones I could think of written by Neubecker!

Richard

Derek Howard

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Jul 4, 2008, 3:58:49 AM7/4/08

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Jeff

The ordinary of the burger arms in Siebmacher (not including the
nobility) are in Ottfried Neubecker: "Grosses Wappen-Bilder-Lexikon,
Der bürgerlichen Geschlechter Deutschlands, Österreichs und der
Schweiz", pub. Batterburg Verlag, Augsburg, 1992, ISBN 3-89441-030-2).
If you need a specific look up I may be able to help.

Derek Howard

pool...@austarnet.com.au

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Jul 5, 2008, 10:19:02 PM7/5/08

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Thank you Derek, that is the book I was looking for, I am keeping an
eye out on ebay etc to purchase and wanted to make sure I was looking
for the right one, Neubecker seems to have been rather prolific in his
publishing.
Cheers
Jeff

Frhr.v.Recum

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Jul 6, 2008, 5:03:43 AM7/6/08

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1) Generally speaking there are no such ordinaries except some regional
attempts.

2) One of the problems is that there is no commonly accepted German
blazoning, every one of the big collectors used his own method.

3) As far as Siebmacher is concerned we have to be aware that there is
the "Old" and the "New Siebmacher" (OS, NS).
a) The OS(1605-1806) consisting of illustrations only has therefore no
original blazoning, organized partially by areas. Rietstap(RI) (and
Renesse) seems to have included a number of them and the first time ever
he blazoned them, of course in French, completely depending on the small
illustrations, which are not always correct and sometimes misleading
and difficult to define.
b) The NS(1854-1967) has illustrations and blazonings and is organized
regionally. Of this RI might have included volumes which appeared before
1884 (edited by Gritzner(GR), Heyer v.Rosenfeld and ??).
I have no idea whether RI used the GR blazoning for his French version
or just the illustrations.

4) I did as yet meticulously check Hanns Jäger-Sunstenau's General-Index
(GI) against RI, and I don't think anyone else did until today.
The OS appeared in 5 parts and 12 supplements, altogether some 19500
entries in the GI, of which about 7500 (38%) are missing in the RI and I
can't tell which method of selection RI used.
By the way the pecular "genealogical" sorting (B=P, D=T, ..) of the GI
makes it difficult for non-Germans to use.

Regards
FvR

jseg...@activ8.net.au

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Jul 7, 2008, 7:30:14 AM7/7/08

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Thanks all for this information. Is either of the seibmachers
available either as a book or on CD? If so where might one aquire a
copy and what would be a reasonable cost?
Cheers

Jeff

Zdenek Kucera

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Jul 7, 2008, 12:47:01 PM7/7/08

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Can be acquired here http://www.historie-heraldika.cz/Seznam_knih.html
(in EN).