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Eminent Elizabethans II:27th Baron Mowbray 1953-2021
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Louis Epstein
Feb 15, 2021, 6:13:58 AM2/15/21
to
Another entry in my decades-long series of "Eminent Elizabethans II",
persons achieving notability in the realms of,in lives entirely
within the reign of,Queen Elizabeth II.The most recent was Dame
Georgina Mace last September.
Edward William Stephen Stourton,27th Baron Mowbray,28th Baron Segrave,
and 24th Baron Stourton,born April 17th 1953,died January 30th 2021
according to the Yorkshire Post and others.His three baronies were
created in 1283,1295,and 1448 respectively...he had succeeded in
2006.
The family arms are a quarterly of six,noting their royal
descent and their being heirs general of England's Premier Dukes
(Norfolk) and Earls(Shrewsbury) though those titles descend by
heirs male:
1st Stourton (their own male line)
2nd Howard (Dukes of Norfolk)
3rd Mowbray
4th Segrave
5th Plantagenet (for Thomas of Brotherton,son of Edward I)
6th Talbot (Earls of Shrewsbury)
(The last four feature lions,also the dexter supporter).
When I remarked,decades ago,on the arms on rec.heraldry it
was noted that a diamond lozenge as borne by women by some
rules would utterly fail to do the devices justice...
I hope the new 28th/29th/25th Baron (who turned 29 in December...
the late peer had run the family estates,or what remains,since age 30)
has a son,as right now his four elder sisters would be his
co-heiresses if he remains childless.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
persons achieving notability in the realms of,in lives entirely
within the reign of,Queen Elizabeth II.The most recent was Dame
Georgina Mace last September.
Edward William Stephen Stourton,27th Baron Mowbray,28th Baron Segrave,
and 24th Baron Stourton,born April 17th 1953,died January 30th 2021
according to the Yorkshire Post and others.His three baronies were
created in 1283,1295,and 1448 respectively...he had succeeded in
2006.
The family arms are a quarterly of six,noting their royal
descent and their being heirs general of England's Premier Dukes
(Norfolk) and Earls(Shrewsbury) though those titles descend by
heirs male:
1st Stourton (their own male line)
2nd Howard (Dukes of Norfolk)
3rd Mowbray
4th Segrave
5th Plantagenet (for Thomas of Brotherton,son of Edward I)
6th Talbot (Earls of Shrewsbury)
(The last four feature lions,also the dexter supporter).
When I remarked,decades ago,on the arms on rec.heraldry it
was noted that a diamond lozenge as borne by women by some
rules would utterly fail to do the devices justice...
I hope the new 28th/29th/25th Baron (who turned 29 in December...
the late peer had run the family estates,or what remains,since age 30)
has a son,as right now his four elder sisters would be his
co-heiresses if he remains childless.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Peter Howarth
Feb 23, 2021, 4:06:19 AM2/23/21
to
On Monday, 15 February 2021 at 11:13:58 UTC, Louis Epstein wrote:
>When I remarked,decades ago,on the arms on rec.heraldry it
>was noted that a diamond lozenge as borne by women by some
>rules would utterly fail to do the devices justice...
>I hope the new 28th/29th/25th Baron (who turned 29 in December...
>the late peer had run the family estates,or what remains,since age 30)
>has a son,as right now his four elder sisters would be his
>co-heiresses if he remains childless.
That raises an interesting question. Given that the Royal Family has now accepted that gender is irrelevant in dealing with succession to the throne, when will the College of Arms accept that gender is irrelevant in the display of arms? Why do we still distinguish between male and female versions? The old canard about women not carrying a shield is completely out of date. Women in the armed forces are now being deployed on the front line alongside men. And they wear the same uniform. Shouldn't we get rid of all this sexism in heraldry?
>When I remarked,decades ago,on the arms on rec.heraldry it
>was noted that a diamond lozenge as borne by women by some
>rules would utterly fail to do the devices justice...
>I hope the new 28th/29th/25th Baron (who turned 29 in December...
>the late peer had run the family estates,or what remains,since age 30)
>has a son,as right now his four elder sisters would be his
>co-heiresses if he remains childless.
Whilst we wait for the heralds to do something useful, perhaps one way round is to display all arms on a rectangular banner, which artistically is a much more convenient shape than either a shield or a lozenge, especially if the arms are quartered.
Peter Howarth
Louis Epstein
Mar 22, 2021, 9:58:23 PM3/22/21
to
Peter Howarth <pgrho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, 15 February 2021 at 11:13:58 UTC, Louis Epstein wrote:
>>When I remarked,decades ago,on the arms on rec.heraldry it
>>was noted that a diamond lozenge as borne by women by some
>>rules would utterly fail to do the devices justice...
>>I hope the new 28th/29th/25th Baron (who turned 29 in December...
>>the late peer had run the family estates,or what remains,since age 30)
>>has a son,as right now his four elder sisters would be his
>>co-heiresses if he remains childless.
>
> That raises an interesting question. Given that the Royal Family has now accepted
> that gender is irrelevant in dealing with succession to the throne, when will the
> College of Arms accept that gender is irrelevant in the display of arms? Why do we
> still distinguish between male and female versions? The old canard about women not
> carrying a shield is completely out of date. Women in the armed forces are now
> being deployed on the front line alongside men. And they wear the same uniform.
> Shouldn't we get rid of all this sexism in heraldry?
Prejudice and identity are two different things,of course.
> On Monday, 15 February 2021 at 11:13:58 UTC, Louis Epstein wrote:
>>When I remarked,decades ago,on the arms on rec.heraldry it
>>was noted that a diamond lozenge as borne by women by some
>>rules would utterly fail to do the devices justice...
>>I hope the new 28th/29th/25th Baron (who turned 29 in December...
>>the late peer had run the family estates,or what remains,since age 30)
>>has a son,as right now his four elder sisters would be his
>>co-heiresses if he remains childless.
>
> That raises an interesting question. Given that the Royal Family has now accepted
> that gender is irrelevant in dealing with succession to the throne, when will the
> College of Arms accept that gender is irrelevant in the display of arms? Why do we
> still distinguish between male and female versions? The old canard about women not
> carrying a shield is completely out of date. Women in the armed forces are now
> being deployed on the front line alongside men. And they wear the same uniform.
> Shouldn't we get rid of all this sexism in heraldry?
I know that the distinctive differencing marks for the first,second,etc. sons
on arms go back centuries...the Canadian heralds came up with marks for the
first,second,etc. daughters to also be used but I don't know if they have
ever caught on anywhere else.
> Whilst we wait for the heralds to do something useful, perhaps one way round is to
> display all arms on a rectangular banner, which artistically is a much more
> convenient shape than either a shield or a lozenge, especially if the arms are
> quartered.
Louis Epstein
Mar 24, 2021, 6:41:21 PM3/24/21
to
In alt.talk.royalty Louis Epstein <l...@top.put.com> wrote:
> Another entry in my decades-long series of "Eminent Elizabethans II",
> persons achieving notability in the realms of,in lives entirely
> within the reign of,Queen Elizabeth II.The most recent was Dame
> Georgina Mace last September.
I supppose the Marquess of Bute would also qualify though I'm not
> Another entry in my decades-long series of "Eminent Elizabethans II",
> persons achieving notability in the realms of,in lives entirely
> within the reign of,Queen Elizabeth II.The most recent was Dame
> Georgina Mace last September.
going to start a new thread for him.(But every day the pool of
persons born after February 6th 1952,and their death rate,increases).
3ARwun
Apr 6, 2021, 7:27:16 AM4/6/21
to
On Monday, March 22, 2021 at 8:58:23 PM UTC-5, Louis Epstein wrote:
> Peter Howarth <pgrho...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I know that the distinctive differencing marks for the first,second,etc. sons
> on arms go back centuries...the Canadian heralds came up with marks for the
> first,second,etc. daughters to also be used but I don't know if they have
> ever caught on anywhere else.
probably not, since the first, second son, thing is barely a th8ng itself... The Canadian authority even invented "Bronze" or Copper as a third metal, alongside Argent & OR, which I rather liked.
> I know that the distinctive differencing marks for the first,second,etc. sons
> on arms go back centuries...the Canadian heralds came up with marks for the
> first,second,etc. daughters to also be used but I don't know if they have
> ever caught on anywhere else.
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