Costco's concealed carry ban
CSM
response, if any, when I receive one.
To: Mark Cawsey
Ecommerce Customer Service Manager
Costco Stores, Inc.
Fm: Charles S. Marks
Former Costco Customer
Re: Costco's position regarding licensed concealed carrying of firearms on
your premises.
Mark,
I have read your response to several posters on the rec.guns group that has
been posted on the internet and have to say that I'm disappointed in
Costco's obviously negative position regarding citizens who enjoy the
benefits of the second amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
I am sure that you realize that by banning the concealed carry of firearms
on your premises that you are doing nothing to deter crime nor to make the
shopping experience safer for your patrons. In fact, exactly the opposite is
true. I suggest that you look up the news story regarding the horrible
murder of several people in a Kileen, Texas Luby's Cafeteria, including the
parents of a future state senator. She possessed a handgun and knew how to
use it but was forced to leave it in her car because licensed concealed
carry did not exist in Texas at that time.
I am sure that the Luby's management thought their patrons would be safe and
have an enjoyable dining experience that day. Unfortunately that must have
been all that they thought about because they gave no consideration at all
about what to do in case a rejected lover, armed with a high capacity
handgun, came into their restaurant and started shooting people
indiscriminately.
Your policy regarding concealed carry is ridiculously naive at best and a
prime example of the head-in-the-sand approach to problem solving in the
first degree. You are in fact advertising to any illegally gun toting punks
that you are offering a safe, unarmed hunting ground for them to prey on.
Your policy doesn't restrict this type of person from your premises at all
since they won't be obeying any of the myriad of gun laws already on the
books. Have you ever wondered why all of the "unbalanced" perpertrators of
multiple shootings/killings choose to go off the deep end and commit their
crimes in schools, hospitals, office buildings, and churches?
Could it be because they know very well that these fit the profile of near
perfect victim centers? There is a very low likelyhood that there will be
any armed resistance to their deeds because these are places where concealed
carry is prohibited either by statute or posting by the owner. We either
have to disarm and leave a loaded firearm in our car where it can easily be
stolen, or risk criminal sanction for entering your store with our weapon on
our persons. By posting against concealed carry, you are restricting
concientious citizens who have had to pass a written as well as a practical
examination, administered by licensed instructors. Further, we can owe no
back taxes, fines or child support. We cannot have a criminal background or
be under any type of restraining order. We must pay a substantial fee and be
fingerprinted and photographed. We must also go through this process every 4
years just to show the system that our making it through the last time
wasn't a fluke. In short, good citizens and able to prove it repeatedly.
Your policy will immediately deter a concealed license holder because to be
caught inside your facility with a weapon would be a criminal offense,
resulting in prosecution. Not for a crime against Costco mind you, but for
violating the statute on criminal trespass because you have seen fit to
exclude over 223,000 Texas CCL holders.
Now, perhaps you and your management weren't aware of all of this when you
formulated this short-sighted policy. Perhaps you were too. In any event, I
won't be gracing any of your stores with my presence and my credit card
until this policy is changed. I don't have any expectation that this will
cause you to file for Chapter 11 under our bankruptcy laws, but at the end
of each fiscal year, your bottom line will be a little smaller than it could
be simply because I refuse to do business with a company that treats good
citizens as criminals and throws their doors open to any punk who wants to
break the law. I fully intend to influence as many of my friends, family and
co-workers as possible to avoid your stores as well.
Respectfully,
Charles S. Marks
-----------------------------------------------------------
Learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
Scott French
Great letter! I also sent an email to Costco. Not as eloquent as yours.
None the less, I will be taking my business to Sam's Club instead of Costco.
Scott
Ronald Bloom
Evan R.
news:ast08g$ck1$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# Unfortunately that must have
# been all that they thought about because they gave no
consideration at all
# about what to do in case a rejected lover, armed with a high
capacity
# handgun, came into their restaurant and started shooting people
# indiscriminately.
Overall, it sounds like a great letter, Charles. I hope you get
a "real" response, and not just a form letter.
I would, however, like to object to your above quoted reference
to a "high capacity handgun." I seems as if you've
(unintentionally?) fallen into the liberal line of thinking here.
What relevance does the hangun's ammunition storage capacity have
to your argument? If anything, you are implying that "high
capacity" pistols are somehow inherently more dangerous than
other types of pistols, or that such pistols are, or perhaps
should be, illegal. Surely that's not what you meant to say, was
it? Either way, I fear that you may have taken two steps forward
and one step back in the fight for our 2nd Amendment rights.
--
***************************
* Evan M. Richardson
* emri...@gmx.net
***************************
AAMoy
taking FULL responsibility for your safety. If anything ever happens, it is
survivors SUE the pants off COSTCO time!
David Rackley
their
# response, if any, when I receive one.
I guess I got further than most since I didn't get a form letter.
# Dear Mr. Rackley,
#
# Thank you for e-mailing costco.com.
#
# Your comments are very important to us and we appreciate
# your communication on this matter. Your e-mail suggestion
# has been forwarded to our executives for their review.
#
# Thank you,
#
# Anna Johnston
# Costco Wholesale Corporation
# custome...@costco.com
#
#
# -----Original Message-----
# From: IMCReply
# Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 3:57 PM
# To: Anna Johnston
# Subject: Warehouse Questions or Suggestions [APZ20021129000014573236586]
#
#
# Note this message was submitted through the Costco Online web site
# customer suggestion page on November 29, 2002 at 3:38:14 PM.
# =========================================================
# Comment/Suggestion/Request/Question Text:
#
# Regarding the 'No Trespass' sign (Texas Penal Code 30.60) posted
# for Texas concealed handgun licensees on your Costco on SH249/FM1960 in
# NW Houston. I am sure you are aware that the only legal purpose for
# this sign is to prevent people licensed by the State of Texas from
# entering your store with a concealed weapon. It of course, gives no one
# illegally carrying, or bent on violence, a moments pause.
#
# I would like to request that you reconsider your decision to prohibit
# licensed individuals from carrying concealed weapons in your store.
# First, I would like to point out that according the Texas DPS, over 1%
# of the population of Texas is currently licensed by the State of Texas
# to carry a concealed handgun. That figure works out higher if you were
# to only consider the adult population, that is those who spend money in
# stores. These are people who have been shopping in your store for years
# and whom you pass by every day unknowingly.
#
# Second, we licensed handgun permit holders are a select group. We are
# generally affluent people, and have been fingerprinted, photographed,
# and have passed criminal background checks similar to being hired by the
# police. Furthermore, we are in good standing with the State of Texas
# and not delinquent on any child support, etc. This sounds like the type
# of people you want shopping in your stores.
#
# Third, you may be assuming legal liability for any licensed holder who
# is injured in the legal sense, or 3rd party whom the license holder
# otherwise would have protected, from an act of violence on your
# property. Consider that the State of Texas has enacted these laws for
# the good of the people. By asserting your rights as the property owner,
# you are denying someone who took positive measures to protect themselves
# from violence, from a means to protecting themselves while on your
# property. I argue that you have now assumed a legal duty to protect.
#
# Lastly, gun owners are a very cohesive group. You only have to look at
# the NRA and our local Texas TSRA organizations to see that. Word will
# quickly get out via the web and news groups, and that word will be that
# Costco is hostile to gun owners. You will loose business and with the
# web being what it is, you will loose business everywhere. Texas is one
# state where you do not wish to alienate gun owners.
#
# I ask that you please reconsider your decision. By taking positive
# action and publicizing it, Costco can recapture what business you have
# lost to date and make friends with just about half the households in the
# State.
#
# Regards,
# David Rackley
John T Haller
JH
"David Rackley" <davidr...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:asvasq$o5r$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...
CSM
I like your prose and consider it superior to mine. Wish that I had put my
thought in such an organized manner. I have to admit that I was in an
advanced state of pistivity when I wrote to them. Not good.
Chuck Marks
"David Rackley" <davidr...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:asvasq$o5r$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# "CSM" <csm...@cx-rr.net> wrote in message
# news:ast08g$ck1$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# # I thought that I would weigh in with my 2 cents to Costco. I will post
# their
# # response, if any, when I receive one.
#
# I guess I got further than most since I didn't get a form letter.
#
# # Dear Mr. Rackley,
# #
# # Thank you for e-mailing costco.com.
# #
(snip)
wwanman
# I thought that I would weigh in with my 2 cents to Costco. I will post
their
# response, if any, when I receive one.
#
Good letter Charles.
I chose to write the CEO, James D. Sinegal at 999 Lake Drive, Issaquah, WA
98027 via snail mail. I didn't want some low-level Customer Service manager
round filing my complaint. I'll also post his response here should I get a
reply.
As for everyone else reading this, whichever we individually choose to do,
we all should do something.
Regards,
Dave
David C. Heinsohn
behind it after the first time someone leaves a gun in a car, and is
unable to defend themselves, their family, and friends and is sued into
oblivion. Unfortunately that is what it's going to take to get the
insurance companies on our side. If a company refuses to allow for self
defense and then does not provide adequate defense THEY are liable for
all damages. It may take several efforts but eventually it will work.
David Heinsohn
Ronald Bloom wrote:
# I am willing to bet their insurance company is behind this.
#
--
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand
ready to
do violence on their behalf......George Orwell.
mik...@hoplite.org
# Charles,
# Great letter! I also sent an email to Costco. Not as eloquent as yours.
# None the less, I will be taking my business to Sam's Club instead of Costco.
I just completed and sent mine.
--
Michael P. Brininstool mik...@hoplite.org
Guess Who?
allow customers to be armed, Costco is then 100% liable for their
safety. Where does such a foolish notion come from?
Don't go in Costco, if you think it's too dangerous to be there
unarmed. Shoppers are not under the "custody" of Costco, like jail
inmates!
People get socked up at sporting events frequently, and nobody "sues
the pants off" the sports stadium, or team owners.
The only way anyone could collect any damages, from an assault at
Costco, is if the attacker was an employee!
I doubt a "boycott" will do any good. CCW holders are too small a
group, for Costco to worry about losing much business from
them.........
If you don't like Costco's policy, go to someplace else where you do.
I've never been in a Costco, yet have somehow, managed to have a
"normal" (sic) life. I expect others can do the same.......
Don