I want to make a .357 mag bullseye load
Josh A. Grossman
I was thinking of going to a bullseye match and only taking only
revolvers...
My 617 for the .22 portion.
My 686 for the centerfire portion.
My 625 for the .45 cal portion.
I have lots of data and experience loading hot .357 mags with 158 gr
bullets, but I want to use 148 gr plated wadcutters (HBWC, or any
other wadcutter you recommend) and .357 cases.
I have several reloading manuals (Speer, Sierra, Hornady) and none
list any plated bullets, and I think only the Hornady even lists any
wadcutters...
Anyway anyone else out there ever done this?
If so, do you have any suggested loads...
JAG
[MODERATOR: And what fodder will you plan for the .45 portion? ]
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Josh A. Grossman
bullet into the case with a hammer!
Just kidding!!!
I haven't purchased 185gr .45 bullets yet, so I don't quite know, but
it will be a jacketed bullet, and there is plenty of loading data...
As far as bullets go, I was looking at the Remington 185gr match SWC.
I wanted the Sierra Truncated Cone 185gr tournament masters, but I
cant seem to find them.
As I will be shooting a revolver, I am not concerned about feeding
issues...
I am open to suggestions...
JAG
zxcvbob
Why plated wadcutters instead of lead?
I shoot 148 grain cast wadcutters using 2.5 grains of Hodgdon's
International. It works for me. :-)
Target shooters have been using 2.6 or 2.7 grains of Bullseye for
years. It's a classic load. With a plated bullet I might up that to
2.8 because of the added bore friction.
Is you 625 a .45 ACP or .45 Colt?
-Bob
nord...@yahoo.com
# bullets, but I want to use 148 gr plated wadcutters (HBWC, or any
# other wadcutter you recommend) and .357 cases.
#
# I have several reloading manuals (Speer, Sierra, Hornady) and none
# list any plated bullets, and I think only the Hornady even lists any
# wadcutters...
#
# Anyway anyone else out there ever done this?
#
# If so, do you have any suggested loads...
For best accuracy we always used the swaged HBWC and a light taper
crimp. If you need lead bullet data consult the powder manufacturers.
sta...@prolynx.com
A .38 HBLWC will do it, just use standard .38 data. 2.7 gr. of
Bullseye or there-abouts is the classic load for .38 Spl mid-range
target loads. Suitable projectiles can be had here:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=1601192625
Usual instructions, flush seat, slight roll crimp. Should get you
into the 700+ fps range. Other fast-burning powders can be used, 231,
700X, etc., with suitable charge weight changes, check the published
data first. If you want to be daring, try some Trail Boss. Have 100
loaded with that I haven't tried yet.
Plated bullets aren't needed, save them for hotter loads. If you get
leading from the above load, you've got something wrong. The
Remington bullets have sufficient lube on them to get the job done.
Stan
Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
# I have several reloading manuals (Speer, Sierra, Hornady) and none
# list any plated bullets, and I think only the Hornady even lists any
# wadcutters...
Many such loads are listed at http://data.hodgdon.com
Gerald "Brick" Brickwood
Why not just use factory .38 Special target ammo? That is, if you really
want to use the 686 for the
Centerfire match. You know that Centerfire is open to any caliber .32 and
larger and many
competitors shoot their cal. .45 pistols for the Centerfire match also,
right?
As a general rule load data for cast lead bullets can be used for plated
bullets. Check your Speer manual, it will list loads for lead 148 gr HB -WC
But if you really want to handload, a "standard" for the .38 Special is 2.8
grains of Bullseye behind a 148 gr. LHBWC. LDEWC can be pushed a little
harder, but don't go overboard. You want to stay with a velocity in the
750 - 800 fps range for accuracy and recovery (the rapid fire stage will
show you exactly what I mean). I don't know how this light a load will
react in the longer .357 mag cases, but if you're concerned about the excess
airspace and want to keep the powder back by the primer you can: 1) use a
light cardboard wad cut to the inside diameter of the case, 2) fill the air
space with dacron or kapok fiber (purchase from your local sewing supply
store) or 3) Try a product called Pufflon see: www.pufflon.com . Note I
have never used pufflon so please be the first to post your results and
impressions of the product here!
Gan...@news-1.mpls.iphouse.net
THe pressure is very low: you can use the same data for the 148 gr.
lead wadcutters, and for the 148 gr. plated wadcutters.
You will have to do some experimenting to find a load your revolver
'likes', of course
I think the hollow based, swaged lead 148 gr. wadcutters are likely to
give the best accuracy.
At the low velocity for these projectiles, I would think that leading
would be nearly nonexistent.
My ancient Hornady No II reloading manual gives loading data for 148 gr.
lead wadcutters. Velocities are as low as 700 FPS.
I use 158 gr. cast semiwadcutters and 38 Special loading data, in 357
magnum cases, for my 'target' and plinking loads for my 4" 686.
In the relatively heavy 686, they are very mild loads.
Using 148 full wadcutter load data would be even milder, I would bet.
sta...@prolynx.com
When I was looking for factory fodder for the M52, Winchester Super
Match was $32/box of 50, the only full wadcutter ammo around. A mite
steep considering a brick of 2000 Remington bullets is $120, a couple
of bricks of primers is about $46 and a pound of Bullseye runs $18. I
figure I can assemble mid-range loads for about a dime or so. Most
places don't carry anything other than the buck a round personal
defense ammo for snubbies in .38 Spl anymore. Used to be .38 was
about the cheapest centerfire pistol ammo on the shelf, not now.
Just got a full-wadcutter mold, I'll have to see how those compare
with the factory slugs.
Stan
Gerald "Brick" Brickwood
<sta...@prolynx.com> wrote in message news:iq27g1$dte$1...@news.albasani.net...
#
# When I was looking for factory fodder for the M52, Winchester Super
# Match was $32/box of 50, the only full wadcutter ammo around.
# snipped
# Just got a full-wadcutter mold, I'll have to see how those compare
# with the factory slugs.
Yeah ain't it a shame the ammo prices have gotten so high?!
For a one match experiment (90 rounds if he's going to shoot a full match)
buying 2 boxes of .38 Special Wadcutters
should not break anyone.
Not many guys around that shoot a Mosel 52 anymore. Might even be almost
time to put that one in a museum and replace it with a
..32 S&W Long like the Benelli M95. I think there you'd be pushing a (guess)
98 gr cast lead bullet with something like (guess) 1.7 grains of Bullseye.
Just think of your savings in metal and powder! Sheesh any lighter and it
would be primer activated!
sta...@prolynx.com
Well, that's if .38 Super Match can be found. We have Bass Pro,
Gander and Sportsman's here as well as a bunch of Dick's and Big
Fives, only one had full wadcutter loads. And don't even think of
wally world for such.
Most of those .32L wad guns are based on .22 LR platforms, just have
weight added to the bolt. A lot have alloy frames, too. I just
wonder about the longevity of them. .32 components are harder to find
than .38s. You can get them, but they're not cheap.
Stan
Josh A. Grossman
# Why plated wadcutters instead of lead?
#
# I shoot 148 grain cast wadcutters using 2.5 grains of Hodgdon's
# International. It works for me. :-)
#
# Target shooters have been using 2.6 or 2.7 grains of Bullseye for
# years. It's a classic load. With a plated bullet I might up that to
# 2.8 because of the added bore friction.
#
# Is you 625 a .45 ACP or .45 Colt?
My 625 is chambered for .45 ACP.
I also have a S&W 1917, but they wont let me use that for an EIC
match! (good thing too, it does not have adjustable sights!)
JAG
Josh A. Grossman
# A .38 HBLWC will do it, just use standard .38 data. 2.7 gr. of
# Bullseye or there-abouts is the classic load for .38 Spl mid-range
# target loads. Suitable projectiles can be had here:http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=1601192625
# Usual instructions, flush seat, slight roll crimp. Should get you
# into the 700+ fps range. Other fast-burning powders can be used, 231,
# 700X, etc., with suitable charge weight changes, check the published
# data first. If you want to be daring, try some Trail Boss. Have 100
# loaded with that I haven't tried yet.
#
# Plated bullets aren't needed, save them for hotter loads. If you get
# leading from the above load, you've got something wrong. The
# Remington bullets have sufficient lube on them to get the job done.
I was looking at buying those Remingtons. I just prefer plated
bullets, because I try to limit my lead exposure. I was looking at
getting these, http://www.berrysmfg.com/product-i14487-c13-g8-b0-p0-.38_Cal_148gr_HBWC.aspx
, which by the time you add what Midway wants for freight, are less
money...
JAG
Josh A. Grossman
I need an extra gun to clean that day ;)
I was thinking about freaking out my opponents and actually taking my
Desert Eagle in .44 mag or my 629 and I was going to use full power .
44 mag hunting loads...
JAG
Gerald "Brick" Brickwood
If you are speaking of EIC as being "Excellence in Competition" or a "leg"
match under U.S. CMP rules,
they won't let you use the 625 either since that is not nor has ever been a
U.S. standard issue Service Pistol.
The last I knew for sure only a M1911 series pistol in cal. .45 ACP or M9 in
cal. 9mm Parabellum were allowed under
CMP rules.
Check the rulebook to be sure! I'd hate to see you get to the match and
find out you can't compete!
john
"Target shooters have been using 2.6 or 2.7 grains of Bullseye for
Same load I've been using since the early 70's. 4.0 Bullseye with 200
lead gr wad cutter in your 625.
Gerald "Brick" Brickwood
They might laugh, but I doubt they'd be freaked out!
Don't forget a full match is 90 rounds total including 6 strings each of
timed fire (1 string is 5 rds in 20 secs) and rapid fire (1 string is 5 rds
in 10 secs) and 30 rds of slow fire (slow is 10 rds fired in 10 minutes).
If the Tournament you're attending is a 2700 to be fired in one day, the Leg
Match will usually be a separate event fired after the other matches are
completed so you'll need another 30 rounds.
Fatigue will be a definite factor overall and recovering between shots
during the timed & rapid fire portions will have a great effect on your
performance. There is no alibi allowed for insufficient time, shots not
fired are scored as misses, so if you finish a string with 2 shots remaining
you're minus 20 points.
Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
# I just prefer plated bullets, because I try to limit my lead exposure.
Lead exposure at an indoor range comes primarily from lead styphnate
primers and lead slugs splattering on the bullet trap/backstop. With
mild wadcutter loads there should be minimal lead rubbed off the
bullet as it travels down the barrel, so plated bullets probably won't
make much if any difference.
You might see some difference during the reloading process, but you
can ameliorate that by washing your hands and washing your clothing.
Chris Morton
#
#
#Why not just use factory .38 Special target ammo? That is, if you really
#want to use the 686 for the
#Centerfire match. You know that Centerfire is open to any caliber .32 and
#larger and many
#competitors shoot their cal. .45 pistols for the Centerfire match also,
#right?
I don't know about where he is, but I can't name a store in the Cleveland area
where I'm likely to find factory .38 Special mid-range target ammunition. It's
even less likely that I'd find some that wasn't going for .416 Rigby prices.
Besides, he clearly reloads. I don't know how he's fixed for supplies, but I've
got 5000+ .38 Special cases, plus a bunch of 148gr. DEWCs, HBWCs, and 158gr.
LSWCs. There's no way in the world I'd spend good money on factory .38s.
Josh A. Grossman
Here is what I did...
For my .357 loads I used Berry's plated 148 HBSWC, in new Top Brass
357 cases and loaded some with 3gr of Bullseye and some with 3.3 gr of
bullseye (just 50 of each to test the loads)
For my .45 I am using speer 185 gr SWC Match bullets in new Remington
Auto Rim cases with 4.1gr of Bullseye, but a friend of mine uses 3.8
gr, so I may try some with that...
Now I am just looking for some time to get to the range to test, sight
in, and practice...
BTW I feel I should be allowed to use my S&W 1917 .45acp revolver for
the EIC, but they wont let me use that.
Someday I will get a good "hardball" 1911 for the EIC matches. My
current 1911's are set up for combat sports, and don't meet the EIC
criteria, and I don't own a M9...
So I am just not shotting the EIC...
I will let you know how it goes, if I ever make it out to the range...
JAG
pcmacd
Consider Scott Solo 1000 for both your 45 and 38 SPL / 357 target
loads.
American Rifleman had an article on it 15 or 20 years ago. One of the
old farts at the range (I guess I'm about his age now) caught the
article (which I probably still have), and was tired of how messy
Bullseye is, so he compared results in a Ransom rest. The differences
were negligible, and man, is that stuff cleaner than Bullseye.
I've never looked back, and recommend it to all my friends. It's gone
through some formulation changes over the years. My powder is an
older lot/formulation, so you will need to work up with caution: 3.8
grains of Scott Solo 1000 in a 357 case with a 148 grain RCBS full
wadcutter bullet cast from range salvage with 2% tin and 3% antimony
(foundry type) added.
I put 15 rounds 25 yards downrange first time out with this load in my
Dan Wesson heavy barreled 357 Mag. On an NRA slow fire target --
eight rounds in the X ring, seven in the ten, offhand. There were
three cloverleafs. I had never done anything remotely like this with
my loose Colt Series 70 in 45 ACP. (I use Solo 1000 for those loads,
too.)
Don't get me wrong -- Bullseye is _THE_ classic load for this
application, and it is one of the older pistol powders. It does burn
very, very dirty though.
pc
Josh A. Grossman
I typically use Unique in .357 mag, and Winchester Super Field in .45
I am just using bullseye powder for this match.
The cleanest burning stuff I ever used in .45 was Winchester Super
Light, but it is no longer made.
I made a plea to Hodgdon (I think they make the Winchester branded
powders now) and asked them to make it again, but so far they haven't.
I wish I had purchased several 8 pound containers of the stuff before
it went away, but I did not know it was going away.
I will have to find this Scott Solo of which you speak and try it
out...
Thanks,
JAG