Seeking diagnosis on bad shooting
ProfessorGunz
and actually paying for it. When I shoot my CZ-75 or a Polish P-64, I
can do a reasonable job of shooting the center out of the target.
(Okay, I probably use three times the ammo that you do to shoot the
center out, but I still get it done.)
When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
muzzle down and left at the last minute. It's not the sights - I
checked - it is clearly a problem with the jellyware and not the
hardware. I am not getting along with the trigger; the last bit of pull
to drop the firing pin moves my whole hand every dang time. Funny thing
is, I don't do that with an old Colt .357 that has a heavier
double-action trigger pull.
Selling the gun seems like admitting defeat. It's a nice little pistol,
and other people can shoot the <expletive participle deleted><expletive
eternal destination deleted> thing just fine. I'd like to use it as my
carry piece because of the magazine capacity, but if I can't hit
anything with it, there's not much point. Any suggestions short of
surgery to lock my wrist in place? Feel free to mock me; you can't do
it worse than the last target did.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Learn about rec.guns at http://www.recguns.net
Win a Fulton Armory "Classic" AR-15 with Black Hills Ammo
while supporting our RKBA. Details at http://www.myguns.net
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jim Casey
# I am not getting along with the trigger; the last bit of pull
# to drop the firing pin moves my whole hand every dang time.
Experiment with the placement of your finger on the trigger.
- Jim
nick hull
ProfessorGunz <mre...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
# When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
# the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
# muzzle down and left at the last minute. It's not the sights - I
# checked - it is clearly a problem with the jellyware and not the
# hardware. I am not getting along with the trigger; the last bit of pull
# to drop the firing pin moves my whole hand every dang time. Funny thing
# is, I don't do that with an old Colt .357 that has a heavier
# double-action trigger pull.
Try loading dummy rounds at random; when the gun goes "click" when you
expected BANG you will see the problem
Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/
kwa...@gmail.com
> ...
I have a similar problem shooting certain DA Handguns. Try shifting
your fingertip to one side or the other on the trigger, and see if
that helps. I know it sounds weird, but I've tried it and it works.
The other suggestion I have, which also worked for me, is to find a
Hogue grip sleeve, put it on, and see if your shots with the weapon
improve by rotating it in one direction or the other.
This way, it's not so much admitting defeat as changing how you
approach the problem.
Hope these help and happy shooting,
Kirk
Advocate54
# When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
# the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
# muzzle down and left at the last minute. It's not the sights - I
# checked - it is clearly a problem with the jellyware and not the
# hardware. I am not getting along with the trigger; the last bit of pull
# to drop the firing pin moves my whole hand every dang time. Funny thing
# is, I don't do that with an old Colt .357 that has a heavier
# double-action trigger pull.
#
It sounds to me as though you aren't positioning your trigger finger
correctly. I'd bet that rather than contacting the trigger with the pad of
your index finger, you are using the "joint".
Topp@Work
"ProfessorGunz" <mre...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fukep5$fn0$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# I figured I would post this and seek advice on usenet before going out
# and actually paying for it. When I shoot my CZ-75 or a Polish P-64, I
# can do a reasonable job of shooting the center out of the target.
# (Okay, I probably use three times the ammo that you do to shoot the
# center out, but I still get it done.)
#
# When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
# the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
# muzzle down and left at the last minute. It's not the sights - I
# checked - it is clearly a problem with the jellyware and not the
# hardware. I am not getting along with the trigger; the last bit of pull
# to drop the firing pin moves my whole hand every dang time. Funny thing
# is, I don't do that with an old Colt .357 that has a heavier
# double-action trigger pull.
You are anticipating the recoil.
Wayne
"ProfessorGunz" <mre...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fukep5$fn0$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# and actually paying for it. When I shoot my CZ-75 or a Polish P-64, I
# can do a reasonable job of shooting the center out of the target.
# (Okay, I probably use three times the ammo that you do to shoot the
# center out, but I still get it done.)
#
# When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
# the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
# muzzle down and left at the last minute. It's not the sights - I
# checked - it is clearly a problem with the jellyware and not the
# hardware. I am not getting along with the trigger; the last bit of pull
# to drop the firing pin moves my whole hand every dang time. Funny thing
# is, I don't do that with an old Colt .357 that has a heavier
# double-action trigger pull.
#
# and other people can shoot the <expletive participle deleted><expletive
# eternal destination deleted> thing just fine. I'd like to use it as my
# carry piece because of the magazine capacity, but if I can't hit
# anything with it, there's not much point. Any suggestions short of
# surgery to lock my wrist in place? Feel free to mock me; you can't do
# it worse than the last target did.
#
I'm interested in the responses you get, as your situation is exactly the
same that I have with a CZ and a Beretta. Both are dead on with the sights,
but the Beretta seems to always have one out of five that are off pattern,
low left. I can straighten out the Beretta groups with concentration, but I
don't know what the root cause is.
Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
# When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
# the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
# muzzle down and left at the last minute.
You may be placing the trigger finger wrong - try using only the last
segment of the finger, not the joint itself. Dry fire, concentrating
on pulling the trigger straight back.
Omelet
# I figured I would post this and seek advice on usenet before going out
# and actually paying for it. When I shoot my CZ-75 or a Polish P-64, I
# can do a reasonable job of shooting the center out of the target.
# (Okay, I probably use three times the ammo that you do to shoot the
# center out, but I still get it done.)
#
# When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
# the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
# muzzle down and left at the last minute. It's not the sights - I
# checked - it is clearly a problem with the jellyware and not the
# hardware. I am not getting along with the trigger; the last bit of pull
# to drop the firing pin moves my whole hand every dang time. Funny thing
# is, I don't do that with an old Colt .357 that has a heavier
# double-action trigger pull.
Some triggers seem to have a longer travel distance. This sometimes
caused me to shoot low to the right with my Taurus but I finally
overcame it. You may use a different grip than I do.
#
# Selling the gun seems like admitting defeat.
I feel your pain. <g>
# It's a nice little pistol,
# and other people can shoot the <expletive participle deleted><expletive
# eternal destination deleted> thing just fine. I'd like to use it as my
# carry piece because of the magazine capacity, but if I can't hit
# anything with it, there's not much point. Any suggestions short of
# surgery to lock my wrist in place? Feel free to mock me; you can't do
# it worse than the last target did.
Practice babe.
Practice.
Check here for a diagnostic target. Might help, can't hurt:
http://i25.tinypic.com/2uj3u3c.jpg
--
--
Peace! Om
"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a Bitch."
-- Jack Nicholson
gri...@texas.net
<mre...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
#I figured I would post this and seek advice on usenet before going out
#and actually paying for it. When I shoot my CZ-75 or a Polish P-64, I
#can do a reasonable job of shooting the center out of the target.
#(Okay, I probably use three times the ammo that you do to shoot the
#center out, but I still get it done.)
#
#When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
#the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
#muzzle down and left at the last minute. It's not the sights - I
Experiment with placing your finger deeper into the trigger guard so
that when the trigger breaks, your finger and the trigger come
straight back.
Assuming that you are right handed, if you are using the tip or pad of
your trigger finger to press the trigger, by the time you get it to
the break point there is probably significant pressure pushing to the
left. Then the trigger releases and your finger builds momentum and
more leftward pressure causing your shots to go left.
Shooters with large hands (like myself) need to place the
finger/trigger contact point where it will allow a straight pull to
the rear. Many instructors demand that folks use the first pad of the
finger because it is more "sensitive" That works fine for light single
action triggers and certain and hand and gun sizes.
On my 1911s, I can use the first pad of the finger. On my Glocks, I
need to use the first joint of the finger. On my J-frame snubby, I
have to use the second pad or even the second joint.
It's all a function of hand and finger length, gun size and the weight
and length of trigger pull.
Experiment and see what works for your finger and your gun.
Also, see if tightening up your support hand grip helps to keep from
shooting low left.
Gringop
DBP
> ...
Try spending some time dry firing the weapon. Watch what is happening
when you do. If you are flinching then you will see it. Use extended
dry firing practice to get the flinch out of your release. Also if
that doesn't work, take the gun to a gunsmith, there may something
going on inside.
Hope this helps
Dean
Doug White
#I figured I would post this and seek advice on usenet before going out
#and actually paying for it. When I shoot my CZ-75 or a Polish P-64, I
#can do a reasonable job of shooting the center out of the target.
#(Okay, I probably use three times the ammo that you do to shoot the
#center out, but I still get it done.)
#
#When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
#the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
#muzzle down and left at the last minute. It's not the sights - I
#checked - it is clearly a problem with the jellyware and not the
#hardware. I am not getting along with the trigger; the last bit of pull
#to drop the firing pin moves my whole hand every dang time. Funny thing
#is, I don't do that with an old Colt .357 that has a heavier
#double-action trigger pull.
#
#Selling the gun seems like admitting defeat. It's a nice little pistol,
#and other people can shoot the <expletive participle deleted><expletive
#eternal destination deleted> thing just fine. I'd like to use it as my
#carry piece because of the magazine capacity, but if I can't hit
#anything with it, there's not much point. Any suggestions short of
#surgery to lock my wrist in place? Feel free to mock me; you can't do
#it worse than the last target did.
Dry fire, dry fire, dry fire. If you can't squeeze the trigger without
disturbing the sights when it's empty, you aren't going to do any better
when it's loaded. The gun may be partly at fault, or at least not well
suited to your hand. Any combination of a poor trigger pull, poorly
fitting grips, or too long or short distance to the trigger can make it
harder to get a good steady squeeze without screwing up the sight
alignment.
Doug White
DougC
# When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
# the left like I'm jerking the trigger.
#�I am not getting along with the trigger; the last bit of pull
# to drop the firing pin moves my whole hand every dang time. �
That Taurus 111 Millenium with double-action-only trigger is not
supposed to be a target shooter. It is intended to be used for quick
draw self defense at close range. To practice with it, get life-size
silhouette target and put it within ten yards. Now jerk the trigger
in one continuous movement - real fast.
Doug Chandler
nord...@yahoo.com
# the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
# muzzle down and left at the last minute. It's not the sights - I
# checked - it is clearly a problem with the jellyware and not the
# hardware. I am not getting along with the trigger; the last bit of pull
# to drop the firing pin moves my whole hand every dang time.
#
# Any suggestions short of
# surgery to lock my wrist in place?
Admitting it's flight deck error is the first step on the road to
recovery (and you'd be surprised how many fellas never get that far).
Have a shooting buddy skip load it for you. Nothing reinforces
trigger discipline like a flinch not concealed by the recoil of the
shot. Slow down. Focus on the front sight with deadly ernestness
until the surprise break happens. You do all this with your other
pistols, you'll master this one too.
Gerald "Brick" Brickwood
"ProfessorGunz" <mre...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fukep5$fn0$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#I figured I would post this and seek advice on usenet before going out
# and actually paying for it. When I shoot my CZ-75 or a Polish P-64, I
# can do a reasonable job of shooting the center out of the target.
# (Okay, I probably use three times the ammo that you do to shoot the
# center out, but I still get it done.)
#
# When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
# the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
# muzzle down and left at the last minute. It's not the sights - I
# checked - it is clearly a problem with the jellyware and not the
# hardware. I am not getting along with the trigger; the last bit of pull
# to drop the firing pin moves my whole hand every dang time. Funny thing
# is, I don't do that with an old Colt .357 that has a heavier
# double-action trigger pull.
#
# and other people can shoot the <expletive participle deleted><expletive
# eternal destination deleted> thing just fine. I'd like to use it as my
# carry piece because of the magazine capacity, but if I can't hit
# anything with it, there's not much point. Any suggestions short of
# surgery to lock my wrist in place? Feel free to mock me; you can't do
# it worse than the last target did.
#
#
there are several shot analysis charts around most are a bullseye target
broken into sections where shots would fall for given errors, most are
pretty good. You will find one such at
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm
You will also find at the main page a link that takes you to the U.S. Army
Advanced Marksmanship Unit Pistol Marksmanship Manual. Reading it will help
you improve your marksmanship and don't be a bit concerned that it was
written for bullseye competitors. It explains the basics and the basics
apply to all shooting "styles" and disciplines and all pistols.
Hve fun!
Omelet
"Wayne" <mygarb...@verizon.net> wrote:
# "ProfessorGunz" <mre...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
# news:fukep5$fn0$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# #I figured I would post this and seek advice on usenet before going out
# # and actually paying for it. When I shoot my CZ-75 or a Polish P-64, I
# # can do a reasonable job of shooting the center out of the target.
# # (Okay, I probably use three times the ammo that you do to shoot the
# # center out, but I still get it done.)
# #
# # When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
# # the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
# # muzzle down and left at the last minute. It's not the sights - I
# # checked - it is clearly a problem with the jellyware and not the
# # hardware. I am not getting along with the trigger; the last bit of pull
# # to drop the firing pin moves my whole hand every dang time. Funny thing
# # is, I don't do that with an old Colt .357 that has a heavier
# # double-action trigger pull.
# #
# # Selling the gun seems like admitting defeat. It's a nice little pistol,
# # and other people can shoot the <expletive participle deleted><expletive
# # eternal destination deleted> thing just fine. I'd like to use it as my
# # carry piece because of the magazine capacity, but if I can't hit
# # anything with it, there's not much point. Any suggestions short of
# # surgery to lock my wrist in place? Feel free to mock me; you can't do
# # it worse than the last target did.
# #
# I'm interested in the responses you get, as your situation is exactly the
# same that I have with a CZ and a Beretta. Both are dead on with the sights,
# but the Beretta seems to always have one out of five that are off pattern,
# low left. I can straighten out the Beretta groups with concentration, but I
# don't know what the root cause is.
Flinching anticipating recoil.
I still do that sometimes. Drives me nuts.
--
--
Peace! Om
"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a Son of a Bitch."
-- Jack Nicholson
Bob Holtzman
#
# When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
# the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
# muzzle down and left at the last minute.
This is not, as some have suggested, flinching or anticipating recoil.
That would give a high right shot from "heeling" the gun. Try checking
the trigger for overtravel. If present, it would account for low left
impacts and is fairly easily fixed.
--
Bob Holtzman
"If you think you're getting free lunch,
check the price of the beer"
Robert Scott
"press."
Good shooting,
desmobob
J Buck
happening when you do. If you are flinching then you will see it.>
With a semi-automatic? The only way this will work is if someone loads
it w/o telling you if the magazine is actually full of ammo. Otherwise,
he will know the gun is empty, and will never flinch. Problem not
solved.
John
<bric...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
# "ProfessorGunz" <mre...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
#
# there are several shot analysis charts around most are a bullseye target
# pretty good. You will find one such athttp://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Thanks for the post.
Zomby...@cox.net
<bri...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
#
#"ProfessorGunz" <mre...@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
#news:fukep5$fn0$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
##I figured I would post this and seek advice on usenet before going out
## and actually paying for it. When I shoot my CZ-75 or a Polish P-64, I
## can do a reasonable job of shooting the center out of the target.
## (Okay, I probably use three times the ammo that you do to shoot the
## center out, but I still get it done.)
##
## When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
## the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
## muzzle down and left at the last minute. It's not the sights - I
## checked - it is clearly a problem with the jellyware and not the
## hardware. I am not getting along with the trigger; the last bit of pull
## to drop the firing pin moves my whole hand every dang time. Funny thing
## is, I don't do that with an old Colt .357 that has a heavier
## double-action trigger pull.
##
## Selling the gun seems like admitting defeat. It's a nice little pistol,
## and other people can shoot the <expletive participle deleted><expletive
## eternal destination deleted> thing just fine. I'd like to use it as my
## carry piece because of the magazine capacity, but if I can't hit
## anything with it, there's not much point. Any suggestions short of
## surgery to lock my wrist in place? Feel free to mock me; you can't do
## it worse than the last target did.
##
##
#there are several shot analysis charts around most are a bullseye target
#broken into sections where shots would fall for given errors, most are
#pretty good. You will find one such at
#http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm
#
#You will also find at the main page a link that takes you to the U.S. Army
#Advanced Marksmanship Unit Pistol Marksmanship Manual. Reading it will help
#you improve your marksmanship and don't be a bit concerned that it was
#written for bullseye competitors. It explains the basics and the basics
#apply to all shooting "styles" and disciplines and all pistols.
#
Gotta love Chapter Ten. Was it written by a preacher in the 50's?
--
"Before all else, be armed" -- Machiavelli
pro...@ca.rr.com
# I figured I would post this and seek advice on usenet before going out
# and actually paying for it. When I shoot my CZ-75 or a Polish P-64, I
# can do a reasonable job of shooting the center out of the target.
# (Okay, I probably use three times the ammo that you do to shoot the
# center out, but I still get it done.)
#
# When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
# the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
# muzzle down and left at the last minute. It's not the sights - I
# checked - it is clearly a problem with the jellyware and not the
# hardware. I am not getting along with the trigger; the last bit of pull
# to drop the firing pin moves my whole hand every dang time. Funny thing
# is, I don't do that with an old Colt .357 that has a heavier
# double-action trigger pull.
# ------Snip------
Feel free to mock me; you can't do
#
Hi Prof,
Psst! Your target is an inanimate object. It is incapable of
communication. It cannot mock you.
I can. (If it would make you feel better...)
I know everybody is telling you it is the trigger and how you pull it.
I doubt its the trigger. More likely, it is the grips on the gun
changing the way you pull the trigger. You already shoot straight
with your .357 as well as a couple of autos. You have demonstrated
your ability to go from gun to gun to gun and still shoot straight.
Except for this gun. Low and left consistantly? Might be the
trigger, sure. Could be the shape of the grips effecting the way you
use that trigger also. All it takes is a bad corner or a slight lift
on one segment of one of your fingers to cause you this problem. A
cramped grips on short guns don't make for easy accurate shooting. A
bad thumb-well angle will play merry hob with your trigger pull.
The fast solution is Kentucky Windage. Always shooting low and left?
Aim high and right.
Another route, which might save you the cost of a trigger job is a
trigger shoe. The trigger shoe itself might do the job by increased
surface area. Or you might have to build up (contour) the trigger
shoe on one side or another.
Hope this helps.
Trumpet
ProfessorGunz
over the next couple of weeks and will let you all know the results.
pro...@ca.rr.com wrote:
> ...
Topp@Work
"Bob Holtzman" <hol...@cox.com> wrote in message
news:fuoh0g$33p$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# On 2008-04-22, ProfessorGunz <mre...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
# #
# # When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
# # muzzle down and left at the last minute.
#
# This is not, as some have suggested, flinching or anticipating recoil.
# That would give a high right shot from "heeling" the gun. Try checking
# the trigger for overtravel. If present, it would account for low left
# impacts and is fairly easily fixed.
There are other methods of anticipation of recoil that DON'T involve healing
and
do not push the shot right....
Gunny_2007
"J Buck" <jbu...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:fupqjb$ihn$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# DBP wrote: <Try spending some time dry firing the weapon. Watch what is
# happening when you do. If you are flinching then you will see it.>
#
# With a semi-automatic? The only way this will work is if someone loads
# it w/o telling you if the magazine is actually full of ammo. Otherwise,
# he will know the gun is empty, and will never flinch. Problem not
# solved.
It is done with dummy rounds. Have a friend randomly mix the magazine load
with real cartridges and dummy cartridges. Then start shooting. A live
round will fire, cycle, and eventually load a dummy round. Then when you
press trigger, if you are flinching, it will be very obvious.
J Buck
# happening when you do. If you are flinching then you will see it.>
someone loads it w/o telling you if the magazine is actually full of
ammo. Otherwise, he will know the gun is empty, and will never flinch.
Problem not solved.>
Gunny_2007 wrote: <It is done with dummy rounds. Have a friend randomly
mix the magazine load with real cartridges and dummy cartridges. Then
start shooting. A live round will fire, cycle, and eventually load a
dummy round. Then when you press trigger, if you are flinching, it will
be very obvious.>
This method would still require that the first cartridge in the mag be
hot, though.
Ken
jerking, or
breaking your wrist down or relaxing too soon.
Hope this helps,
Ken
nick hull
"Topp@Work" <topp...@comcast.net> wrote:
# "Bob Holtzman" <hol...@cox.com> wrote in message
# news:fuoh0g$33p$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# # On 2008-04-22, ProfessorGunz <mre...@austin.rr.com> wrote:
# # #
# # # When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
# # # the left like I'm jerking the trigger. Whatever I do, I seem to move the
# # # muzzle down and left at the last minute.
# #
# # This is not, as some have suggested, flinching or anticipating recoil.
# # That would give a high right shot from "heeling" the gun. Try checking
# # the trigger for overtravel. If present, it would account for low left
# # impacts and is fairly easily fixed.
#
# There are other methods of anticipation of recoil that DON'T involve healing
# and
# do not push the shot right....
I personally witnessed a shooter flinching so bad that the shots hit the
ground 10' in front of him ;(
Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/
.
John Husvar
jbu...@webtv.net (J Buck) wrote:
# DBP wrote: <Try spending some time dry firing the weapon. Watch what is
# # happening when you do. If you are flinching then you will see it.>
#
# J Buck wrote: <With a semi-automatic? The only way this will work is if
# someone loads it w/o telling you if the magazine is actually full of
# ammo. Otherwise, he will know the gun is empty, and will never flinch.
# Problem not solved.>
#
# Gunny_2007 wrote: <It is done with dummy rounds. Have a friend randomly
# mix the magazine load with real cartridges and dummy cartridges. Then
# start shooting. A live round will fire, cycle, and eventually load a
# dummy round. Then when you press trigger, if you are flinching, it will
# be very obvious.>
#
# This method would still require that the first cartridge in the mag be
# hot, though.
Not necessarily, I'd think.
For practice, one could have another party load the magazine into the
pistol, rack the slide, and hand the pistol to the shooter, observing
all muzzle discipline, etc. of course.
That would preclude the shooter anticipating that the first round is
always hot.
To avoid feeding problems with the first round in a semi, make up some
dummy rounds and mark them clearly on the side of the brass so they're
not mistaken for live rounds.
The same thing works as easily with a revolver. The dummy round still
shows a case head and a bullet.
I do this kind of crap to myself once in a while to watch for flinch. My
son loads the mag or cylinder, hands me the gun. Can be very revealing,
especially when that first round is the dummy! (besides the one holding
the gun, that is.) DAMHIKT!
Offbreed
# Gunny_2007 wrote: <It is done with dummy rounds. Have a friend randomly
# mix the magazine load with real cartridges and dummy cartridges. Then
# start shooting. A live round will fire, cycle, and eventually load a
# dummy round. Then when you press trigger, if you are flinching, it will
# be very obvious.>
#
# hot, though.
Why?
Milkman
dominant. Check out which eye is dominant.
Milkman
"Ken" <k...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:fusbb3$h3q$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...
Windad
around the pistol - and experiment again with the placement of the finger on
the trigger.
"Jim Casey" <seam...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:functc$jmk$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
J Buck
J Buck wrote: <This method would still require that the first cartridge
in the mag be hot, though.>
Offbreed wrote: <Why?>
As the OP above wrote...'then start shooting. A live round will fire,
cycle, and eventually load a dummy round.'
There'll be no firing or cycling unless the first round in the mag is
hot.
Offbreed
# Offbreed wrote: <Why?>
#
# As the OP above wrote...'then start shooting. A live round will fire,
# cycle, and eventually load a dummy round.'
#
# There'll be no firing or cycling unless the first round in the mag is
# hot.
A live first round is necessary for the procedure described, but not for
the purpose described: Flawed trigger pull or flinch.
haraoi...@yahoo.com
# In article <fusba4$h3...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>,
# jbuc...@webtv.net (J Buck) wrote:
#
# # DBP wrote: <Try spending some time dry firing the weapon. Watch what is
#
# # # happening when you do. If you are flinching then you will see it.>
# # # J Buck wrote: <With a semi-automatic? The only way this will work is if
#
# # someone loads it w/o telling you if the magazine is actually full of
# # ammo. Otherwise, he will know the gun is empty, and will never flinch.
# # Problem not solved.>
# # # Gunny_2007 wrote: <It is done with dummy rounds. Have a friend randomly
#
# # mix the magazine load with real cartridges and dummy cartridges. Then
# # start shooting. A live round will fire, cycle, and eventually load a
# # dummy round. Then when you press trigger, if you are flinching, it will
# # be very obvious.>
# #
# # This method would still require that the first cartridge in the mag be
# # hot, though.
#
# Not necessarily, I'd think.
#
# For practice, one could have another party load the magazine into the
# pistol, rack the slide, and hand the pistol to the shooter, observing
# all muzzle discipline, etc. of course.
#
# That would preclude the shooter anticipating that the first round is
# always hot.
#
# To avoid feeding problems with the first round in a semi, make up some
# dummy rounds and mark them clearly on the side of the brass so they're
# not mistaken for live rounds.
#
# The same thing works as easily with a revolver. The dummy round still
# shows a case head and a bullet.
#
# I do this kind of crap to myself once in a while to watch for flinch. My
# son loads the mag or cylinder, hands me the gun. Can be very revealing,
# especially when that first round is the dummy! (besides the one holding
# the gun, that is.) DAMHIKT!
#
I reload a dummy cartridge and fill the primer pocket with silicon
caulk. I then load 4 live rounds and one dummy in the magazine. I do
that without looking at the magazine, by feel only. I NEVER know which
round is the dummy. Could be first, or any one. This will help you
sort out any flinching problem in short order.
pyotr filipivich
<jhu...@sbcglobal.net> wrote on Sat, 26 Apr 2008 11:35:51 +0000 (UTC)
in rec.guns :
=>
=For practice, one could have another party load the magazine into the
=pistol, rack the slide, and hand the pistol to the shooter, observing
=all muzzle discipline, etc. of course.
=
=That would preclude the shooter anticipating that the first round is
=always hot.
=
=To avoid feeding problems with the first round in a semi, make up
=some dummy rounds and mark them clearly on the side of the brass so
=they're not mistaken for live rounds.
Would it be a good idea to use brass with "used" primers? - so
there is that dimple in the bottom? Or no primer at all?
I don't reload, so I don't know the usual sequence, but if primers
go in first, and bullets last, a round with no primer, but a bullet
"should" be an obvious "bad" round.
Some how, I suspect that mixing snap caps in would be a
sub-optimal alternative.
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
The two oldest cliches in the book are "The Good Old Days were
better." and "After all, these are Modern TImes."
DougC
#�When I shoot my CZ-75 or a Polish P-64, I
# can do a reasonable job of shooting the center out of the target.
# (Okay, I probably use three times the ammo that you do to shoot the
# center out, but I still get it done.)
#
# When I shoot my Taurus 111 Millenium Pro, I _always_ shoot low and to
# the left like I'm jerking the trigger.
So why all this discussion about the fine points of detecting a
flinch? People with a flinch will do it with any gun.
If there is something about one particular gun that feels different
enough to throw it off, it's not a flinch. Is is something that can be
overcome by practice. Keep shooting until a change in grip or other
slight adjustment feels like an improvement. Keep shooting until the
holes appear where you wanted them. In the shooting sports, practice
really does make perfect.
Doug Chandler
Calif Bill
<haraoi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fv485c$dko$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
> ...
Since he does not have a flinch with his other pistol, I would look at the
mechanics of the one that shoots crooked. Maybe the trigger sear has a
slight burr and hangs up or drags extra at times. I would very carefully,
maybe with a scale pull the trigger and see if there is bind along the
travel. Do remember if it was a wheel gun or an auto, seems as if it was a
wheel gun. Maybe the cylinder indexes wrong at times. Just off enough to
shave just a little off the bullet as it enters the barrel.