Walther PPK reliability
LISHacker
I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
Walther PPK's.
If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
Thanks in advance for the info.
Timothy Houser
lish...@aol.com (LISHacker) wrote:
#I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
#Walther PPK's.
#If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
#reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
#Thanks in advance for the info.
Wonderful guns for their calibur, and extremely accurate for their
size. Since you sound like you are merely taking a poll, I would like
to throw in my two cents worth since I have owned and/or shot several
Walthers down through the years.
My stainless Walther PPK/S (same gun as PPK with a longer grip) has
been 100% reliable for more rounds than I have kept count of (at least
1,000), including primarily WW Silvertips, WW SXT, Remiington RN, PMC
RN, and JHP reloads. I do not even recall if this gun jammed at all
when it was new over 10 years ago, but do know from my past experience
with others that they can take a couple of hundred rounds to get
beyond an occsional jam every now and then. I have always attributed
this to the tight tolerances of the Walthers more than anything else,
but their feed ramps are not of optimal design for hollowpoint
ammunition. However, all of mine have settled down to be completely
reliable with hollowpoints like the WW STHP, even if they started off
a bit erratic. These include German, French and, yes, even American
models, mostly in .380acp calibur,
Others have stated different experiences with the Walthers, but I
thought that you should have at least one positive comment before the
Walther distractors get started bragging on their Glocks, SIG's,
Kahr's and Makarov's, and maybe a Colt or two. I just really do not
understand why others have problems with the Walthers, unless of
course it isn't the Walthers causing the problem.
Tim Houser
ltl919
LISHacker wrote:
# I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
# Walther PPK's.
# If you own one. Please share your experience.
Note that the PPK user's manual states explicitly that the
pistol was designed to use .380ACP ammo with a 95 gr FMJ bullet and
that other bullet shapes and weights may not function reliably (the
pistol is, after all, a 1930's design).
On the whole, they are quite reliable, but i've seen some
finicky ones out of the box. With some shooting, they seem
to get more reliable. The gun does have a surprisingly sharp kick,
due to its straight blowback design - but its quite tolerable.
ra...@ih4ssd.ih.lucent.com
|I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
|If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
Walther PPK/S .380 Stainless: a relative's had failures to feed due
to sharp edge at the top of the feedramp. You can take care of this
problem with some abrasive cloth or #600 wet-and-dry sandpaper in
the wet mode.
Other areas that can benefit from polishing are the face of the slide
that contacts the base of the cartridge, underneath the slide that
contacts the round at the top of the magazine, the face of the hammer,
and the portion of the safety selector that contacts the hammer.
I've used the #600 sandpaper first on these surfaces (also, the chamber
mouth), followed by some grinding compound to get a ultra-consistent finish,
followed by some Simichrome polish with half a "Q-tip" cotton swab
chucked into the collet of a Dremel Moto-tool run at low speed. This
WILL yield a mirror finish to minimise friction...
Ken Huie
# I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
# Walther PPK's.
# If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
# reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
My PPK/S had 2-3 jams within the first 200 rounds, but has since settled
down. I usually shoot reloads, (from various sources) and it seems to be
pretty forgiving (I'm at about 1000 rnds now).
My biggest gripe is the sharp machined edges that can actually cut your
hand. (Out of ammo? Slice at the bad guy with the slide!)
I polished down the prickly bits with a few swipes with very fine grit
emery paper and that helped a lot - it hasn't drawn blood in a while now.
YMMV.
Ken
E.G. Clayton
lish...@aol.com (LISHacker) wrote:
#I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
#Walther PPK's.
#If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
#reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
#Thanks in advance for the info.
My PPK has been 100% reliable so far through several hundred rounds of
95 gr hardball, some of it factory, some of it my handloads. It has
fed a couple boxes each of Winchester Silvertips and Remington JHP's
without a failure. It does not like Federal Hydrashoks; the truncated
cone bullet tends to get stuck on the feed ramp. Even those feed most
of the time; I get about a 5-10% jamming rate with Hydrashoks. But I
have the impression that this gun will continue to be extremely reliable
with any round-shaped bullet.
Now, you only asked about reliability, but while I'm at it I will mention
that this is the only gun I own that actually makes my hand bleed when
I shoot it. There is a sharp corner on the backstrap that digs flesh
out of the web of my hand every time I fire. After 20 or 30 rounds
it forms a blister. On Tuesday I went to the range and thought I
could get away with wearing a glove, but came home with a big blister
anyway. The gun is not unpleasant to shoot for a few rounds, but for
any sort of extended practice, I have to tape up the web of my shooting
hand or wear thicker gloves.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ed Clayton
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
William Barwell
In article <5dd7rh$8...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, LISHacker <lish...@aol.com> wrote:
#I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
#Walther PPK's.
#If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
#reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
#
#Thanks in advance for the info.
#
#
Lots of stovepipes. Walthers have a reputation as being tight guns and
taking quite a bit of breaking in. Mine stove pipes UMC rounds quite
readily. Hotter loads work OK. But then, I have less than 200 rounds
through mine. I have been told some Walthers may take 500 - 600
rounds to loosen up enough to be reliable. Afterwards, they are very
reliable given adequate cleaning and lubrication.
Such is there reputation, as told to me by people I trust.
They are not guns to pick up out of the box and relied on for protection
without thoroughly being broken in.
Some Walthers do not like certain loads. Walthers have tight chambers,
and some loads like Silvertips have reputations as being often not totally
reliable in some guns. Aggressive hollowpoints like Silvertips
should be carefully checked out before trusting your gun with them for
self defense.
My PPK/S has digested several magazines of Magsafes quite well, though.
I find Fiocchi to be more reliable, probably because they are a bit hotter
than the usual fodder like UMC FMJ for practice.
Once a Walther is well broken in, and a good cartridge determined
that the gun likes, no other small pocket pistol is near as accurate as a
Walther though.
This is a long standing Walther tradition.
Mine is more accurate than I am.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
James Greenland
ltl919 wrote:
#
# LISHacker wrote:
# # I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
# # Walther PPK's.
# # If you own one. Please share your experience.
#
# Note that the PPK user's manual states explicitly that the
# pistol was designed to use .380ACP ammo with a 95 gr FMJ bullet and
# that other bullet shapes and weights may not function reliably (the
# pistol is, after all, a 1930's design).
#
# On the whole, they are quite reliable, but i've seen some
# finicky ones out of the box. With some shooting, they seem
# to get more reliable. The gun does have a surprisingly sharp kick,
# due to its straight blowback design - but its quite tolerable.
ASs me to the PPK fans. I have owned four and had exactly one jam.
That was with a brand new Stainless PPK/S. I polished the feed ramp
AND a burr on the slide rail and it never did it again. BTW I also
stone the sharp edges of the slide to reduce the "bite" but it never
goes away for me. They will aften misfeed the first round when the
slide is manually retracted. I think this is responsible for a lot of
bad reports. I just drop a round in the chamber, let the slide slam
forward, then insert the mag. Reloads from open slide are no problem.
LISHacker
Thanks for your reply. I do own a number of revolvers and semiautos
(Glocks, S/W, Colt, NAA, Ruger.....and the list keeps getting longer).
Some of these (specially my 9mm and .45 Glocks) are quite reliable but
feet they are to bulky or boxy to carry concealed. The PPK seems to be a
nice compact, easy to conceal package with enough power to do the job but
it is hard to decide if it reliable enough.
Why does this pistol seem to get more reliable with use? Do PPK owners
modify the feed ramp to enhance reliability? Are the German models better
than the US made models? Is it possible to get one in .32? ( I have had
trouble with other .380 and suspect that the shape of the .380 round
contributes to feed problems... but then again... what do I know?)
Thanks again for educating me on this subject.
Jose Hernandez in Sunrise, Fl
charles regan
My PPK has been 100% reliable since day 1 (about 6 years ago). I've
put every kind of bullet configuration imaginable through the thing.
It'll even feed empty cases! This thing is totally reliable. I
usually shoot 105 grain semi-wadcutters (the wadcutter design makes
for better holes on paper targets), which in many semi autos, would
just result in jams. Not the PPK. Reloads or factory ammo - no
problems whatsoever, with about 5000 rounds through it so far.
chuck
lish...@aol.com (LISHacker) wrote:
#I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
#Walther PPK's.
#If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
#reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
#Thanks in advance for the info.
Stephen Swartz
One Data Point:
I've had my PPK/S (american; early 1980's version) for thirteen years
or so and have put well over 1,000 rounds through it.
Silvertips, reloaded ball ammo, Cor-Bon's, Hydra-shocks, gun show
specials, etc. etc. etc.
1) absolutely zero failures to feed/chamber
2) never had a hangfire/misfire/failure to fire (even with the gun show
stuff of dubious parentage)
3) never had a jam, stovepipe or otherwise
HOWEVER
the most recent trip to the range (in November), with Hydra-shocks,
something "weird" started happening. At the end of the session (during
rounds 40-60), the HAMMER FAILED TO STAY COCKED on three occasions.
The action cycled, ejected the spent casing, and brought a fresh
cartridge into battery, but the hammer followed the slide forward to the
"double action" position.
I have no idea what may have caused this; aside from the fact that the
pistol hadn't been cleaned/lubricated for a while. I haven't had the
pistol to the range yet to figure it out.
Steve
In article <5dd7rh$8...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, lish...@aol.com (LISHacker) says:
#
#I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
#Walther PPK's.
#If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
#reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
#
#Thanks in advance for the info.
#
#
#
Za...@tiac.net
In article <5dd7rh$8...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, lish...@aol.com (LISHacker) wrote:
# I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
# Walther PPK's.
# If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
# reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
#
# Thanks in advance for the info.
I have an American made stainless PPK which has been my daily carry piece
for almost 9 years. Since I bought it slightly used, I can't say if it
ever had a feeding problem straight from the box, but I can say that its
been 100% reliable with the several thousand rounds I've run through it
since. This includes all types of factory ammo and my own reloads.
My father liked it so much that he decided to buy one for himself.
However, his hands are larger than mine so he bought the PPK/S because the
longer grip frame fit him better than that of the PPK.
First time out to the range with it was a major disappointment in terms of
feed reliability. We put 150 rounds through it that day, but couldn't get
through a single magazine full without a jam!
He took the gun back to the dealer for a refund, but was told he couldn't
do that, he could only send it back to Walther for warranty service.
So off to Walther it went. It was returned within 2 weeks with a note
stating that no problems were found and no repair work was performed?!
We then went back to the range and our results were no different than the
first time! He took it back to the dealer again with the same complaint.
The dealer seemed very puzzled by this and wanted to fire the gun himself
to be certain that a genuine problem existed. So the three of us went to
the range with it and it didn't take long for him to be convinced that
this thing didn't feed worth a darn.............
The dealer then offered to exchange the gun for another one. My father
took him up on the offer, but asked for a PPK like mine, NOT another
PPK/S. The dealer agreed, he made the exchange, then off to the range we
went with the new PPK.
It worked perfectly........... No problems whatsoever......... We even
tried to make it jam by limp-wristing, but it still worked
perfectly........... Then we swapped the slides between my old one and his
new one, and both guns worked perfectly.
The moral of the story? Who knows? The PPK's worked fine, the PPK/S
didn't. However, I've heard several stories that sounded shockingly
similar to this since then.............PPK = great gun...........PPK/S =
not so great gun............. YMMV :-)
........Scott........
Za...@tiac.net
"Don't be terrified, it's just a token of my extreme"
Frank Zappa - 1979
Steven Christian
Ken Huie wrote:
#
# # I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
# # Walther PPK's.
# # If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
# # reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
#
# My PPK/S had 2-3 jams within the first 200 rounds, but has since settled
# down. I usually shoot reloads, (from various sources) and it seems to be
# pretty forgiving (I'm at about 1000 rnds now).
#
# My biggest gripe is the sharp machined edges that can actually cut your
# hand. (Out of ammo? Slice at the bad guy with the slide!)
#
# I polished down the prickly bits with a few swipes with very fine grit
# emery paper and that helped a lot - it hasn't drawn blood in a while now.
# YMMV.
#
# Ken
Ken, thanks for the tip on the slide.
Steve :-{)
RAllenAL
Mine is very reliable. It has never cycled well by hand but this is more
of an annoyance than a serious problem.
Za...@tiac.net
In article <5de12h$b...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, ltl919 <ltl...@super.zippo.com> wrote:
# LISHacker wrote:
# # I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
# # Walther PPK's.
# # If you own one. Please share your experience.
#
# On the whole, they are quite reliable, but i've seen some
# finicky ones out of the box.
I've seen this too!
#The gun does have a surprisingly sharp kick,
# due to its straight blowback design - but its quite tolerable.
My hands are small so I've never experienced the dreaded "slide bite" with
my PPK, but the recoil gives me a very sharp sting in the palm, at least
with the stock plastic grips anyway.
I got some aftermarket custom rosewood grips at a gunshow which made a
HUGE difference in felt recoil! The gun is almost pleasant to shoot
now!......YMMV...
Frank Haynie
LISHacker wrote:
#
# I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
# If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
# reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
#
I've owned a stainless steel PPK, .380 ACP, for over ten years.
I have fired five or six hundred rounds of various types of factory
round nose and hollow points and don't recall ever having it jam!
It's one of those quality firearms that seems to improve with use.
Good Shooting!
Frank Haynie
NRA Endowment Member
Joseph Carra
lish...@aol.com (LISHacker) wrote:
#I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
#Walther PPK's.
#If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
#reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
#
#Thanks in advance for the info.
I've put about 1,500 rounds through my six-year old PPK American
stainless and it only bobbled with the Blazer aluminum-case stuff.
Didn't like that at all - averaged one jam per magazine for the
hundred rounds I fired.
Not a glitch with Hydra-Shock, Silvertip, Glaser, Mag-Safe and all
sorts of ball.
Viking
I have two family members that own PPK's (stainless) and they both use
nothing but JHP's, contrary to the manual warning. The did have some minor
finickiness when brand new but flawless performance after the first 50
rounds. My advice: buy one, take it to the range to get used to it, and
enjoy it. They are great guns. I would certainly make sure your defense
round functions reliably but like I said, it doesn't appear to be a problem
after your first box or two. Eric vik...@add-inc.com
James Greenland <jame...@netdirect.net> wrote in article
<5dfbqb$e...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# ltl919 wrote:
# #
# # LISHacker wrote:
# # # I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
# # # Walther PPK's.
Denes S. Varady, N3NV
In article <5dfbqb$e...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, jame...@netdirect.net says...
# I just drop a round in the chamber, let the slide slam
#forward, then insert the mag. Reloads from open slide are no problem.
#
How about the "chamber-loaded" indicator pin???
It WILL extend too far - it also can BREAK!
--
Denes S. Varady, N3NV
Gryffin
In article <5dfbtm$e...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, lish...@aol.com (LISHacker) wrote:
#> Why does this pistol seem to get more reliable with use?
In my experience, most well-made guns *do* get better with use. A quality
firearm should come from the factory *very* tightly fitted, and will need
some breaking in. During this breaking in period, the moving parts will
smooth out any high spots in the machining, and settle into proper
tolerance. Guns that start out seeming very smooth will often "break in" to
be loose and sloppy.
#> Do PPK owners
#> modify the feed ramp to enhance reliability?
Some do, but it's often not needed. The design has been around for 60 years
or so, must be a good reason ;{>
#> Are the German models better than the US made models?
That used to be the case, when Walther first began making them in the
States. Nowadays, from what I've seen and heard, they're about as well-made
on either side of the Atlantic.
#> Is it possible to get one in .32? ( I have had
#> trouble with other .380 and suspect that the shape of the .380 round
#> contributes to feed problems... but then again... what do I know?)
Yes, they're made in .32 Auto, but keep in mind that it's a less powerful round.
I don't think the *shape* of the round causes problems, really, it's more a
matter of it's length relative to its girth. It's a pretty short and stubby
round; but, then, so is the .45 ACP, and I've never heard anyone state that
the .45 was inherently hard to feed!
#>
#> Thanks again for educating me on this subject.
#>
#> Jose Hernandez in Sunrise, Fl
--
------------------------
Gryffin
gry...@gryffnet.com
"Never attribute to malice that which can
be adequately explained by stupidity."
LISHacker
Thank you all for taking the time to reply to my post. While some of you
have had
a good experience with this pistol, a number of you had a wide range of
problems which do raise a "warning" flag. It sounds as if the reliability
of this pistol is erratic (some seem to be 100% performers, while others
tend to be picky as to ammo). I wonder if this is due to poor MNF quality
control.
Some of you got your hands cut while shooting this piece and... this in
itself may get in the way of an effective self defense response.
So, while I really like the looks, the size and shape of this pistol... I
think I will continue to search the market for other alternatives. I am
familiar with the new
S/W .380 suggested but think this piece would self destruct in a hurry.
North American Arms just posted a picture of their new .32 mini pistol
("The Guardian" can be seen at the NAA web site) It does look good, but
it won't be out til next year. Then, again, the reliability question will
not be answered for quite some time. It is interesting that some models
such as the Glock, managed to establish a reputation for reliability in a
very short time while the reputation of the Walther PPK seems to be
somewhat questionable.
Once again, thanks for your reply and the info.
Jose in Sunrise, Florida
James Greenland
LISHacker wrote:
#
# Thank you all for taking the time to reply to my post. While some of you
# have had
# a good experience with this pistol, a number of you had a wide range of
# problems which do raise a "warning" flag. It sounds as if the reliability
# of this pistol is erratic (some seem to be 100% performers, while others
# tend to be picky as to ammo). I wonder if this is due to poor MNF quality
# control.
#
# Some of you got your hands cut while shooting this piece and... this in
# itself may get in the way of an effective self defense response.
#
# So, while I really like the looks, the size and shape of this pistol... I
# think I will continue to search the market for other alternatives. I am
# familiar with the new
# S/W .380 suggested but think this piece would self destruct in a hurry.
#
# North American Arms just posted a picture of their new .32 mini pistol
# ("The Guardian" can be seen at the NAA web site) It does look good, but
# it won't be out til next year. Then, again, the reliability question will
# not be answered for quite some time. It is interesting that some models
# such as the Glock, managed to establish a reputation for reliability in a
# very short time while the reputation of the Walther PPK seems to be
# somewhat questionable.
#
# Once again, thanks for your reply and the info.
#
# Jose in Sunrise, Florida
Jose. While I carry and like the WAlther, I gotta admit a guy should
have a gun he feels at ease with. The little Smith .380 is a distant
second to the PPK, however, no matter how you slice it. Have you looked
at the Sig 230? It is just a bit larger than the PPK and very well
made.
Can't resist saying that there are some guys on the group that can make
anything jam - even a 1911. I think they must be mag-slammers.
Heath Edwards
LISHacker wrote:
#
# I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
# If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
# reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
#
# Thanks in advance for the info.
I have a Walther PPK/S.
It functions 100% on everything I've shot so far.
I carry it in my Galco Ankle-Glove holster.
I carry it with Glaser Blue's.
and practice with 90gr hardball.
MIKE
On 9 Feb 1997 11:44:32 -0500, lish...@aol.com (LISHacker) wrote:
#such as the Glock, managed to establish a reputation for reliability in a
#very short time while the reputation of the Walther PPK seems to be
#somewhat questionable.
#
#Once again, thanks for your reply and the info.
#
#
#Jose in Sunrise, Florida
#
#
Jose why not look at the colt .380's
any discussion on these guns would help my future
shopping at tax return time .
just a thought
mike in fl. also!
ai...@bellsouth.net
BMWrdr
Dont like the walther ppk. Nice to look at. Lousy to shoot. Too many
sharp edges. Jams. Lousy trigger pull. Go for a little SW 5 shout in
alloy and stainless. Neat. Light. EZ. Reliable. I have not tried the
small Glocks, but I think they may have potential.
JMJ-Strider
LISHacker (lish...@aol.com) wrote:
: I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
: Walther PPK's.
They're very reliable till you take them "out of the box."
: If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
: reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
Actually, the one I owned only jammed about once in every 7
rounds. So it was about 86% reliable. I traded it on my first Beretta.
*****************
* Michael Jones *
* Hickory, NC *
*****************
--
E.G. Clayton
On 12 Feb 1997, JMJ-Strider wrote:
# Actually, the one I owned only jammed about once in every 7
# rounds. So it was about 86% reliable. I traded it on my first Beretta.
Whenever one hears such a story, it is worth looking closer and seeing
if ammunition choice was a factor. My PPK is as reliable as any other
of my autopistols, and from the other satisfied PPK owners I've heard
of, they seem never to have done anything special to their gun to make
it reliable (i.e., no 1911-style throat/polish jobs, etc.). But PPK's
have an admitted (clearly stated in the owner's manual) preference for
the 95 gr FMJ, and it stands to reason that they will feed a round-shaped
bullet more reliably. Mine has had *zero* failures with Winchester
Silvertips. It does have a problem with Federal Hydra-Shoks, and I
could probably reproduce your 1-in-7 experience if I simply took my
PPK to the range with a few boxes of Hydra-Shoks, then gave up on it.
This may not be what you did, but if your PPK jammed once in seven
shots with FMJ or other roundnosed bullets, I would be interested to
hear about it. Mine does not.
There are other guns available that are less finicky about their
bullets, but if you like the PPK, it can be a good carry gun with
the proper ammunition.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Heath
JMJ-Strider wrote:
#
# LISHacker (lish...@aol.com) wrote:
# : I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
# : Walther PPK's.
#
#
# : If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
# : reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
#
# rounds. So it was about 86% reliable. I traded it on my first Beretta.
# *****************
# * Michael Jones *
# * Hickory, NC *
# *****************
#
# --
What kind of ammo did you use?
I've had zero jams from about 200 rounds so far in my PPK/S stainless.
I used some Fiocchi 95gr hardball, and some American Eagle 90gr
hardball.
Hyrkania
If you read the owners manual this particular gun is made to shoot 95
grain hardball. Anything else and you take your chances. I have had
mine for almost six years and have had no jams after about the first
two boxes I put thru it.
On 12 Feb 1997 15:14:18 -0500, str...@mercury.interpath.com
(JMJ-Strider) wrote:
> ...
Rick Boylan
In <5dt8gv$f...@xring.cs.umd.edu> bmw...@aol.com (BMWrdr) writes:
#
#Dont like the walther ppk. Nice to look at. Lousy to shoot. Too
many
#sharp edges. Jams. Lousy trigger pull. Go for a little SW 5 shout
in
#alloy and stainless. Neat. Light. EZ. Reliable. I have not tried
the
#small Glocks, but I think they may have potential.
#
I don't agree. I have a german made PPK/S and it has never jammed or
failed to fire. It is my primary carry gun.
I load it with Hydrashock hollow points, and trust it with my life.
Point-of-aim/Point-of-impact
In <33060871...@news.dialnet.net> hyrk...@dialnet.net (Hyrkania)
writes:
#
#If you read the owners manual this particular gun is made to shoot 95
#grain hardball. Anything else and you take your chances. I have had
#mine for almost six years and have had no jams after about the first
#two boxes I put thru it.
#
#
#
#On 12 Feb 1997 15:14:18 -0500, str...@mercury.interpath.com
#(JMJ-Strider) wrote:
#
# > ...
#
#
I've had a PPK for a few years (since '94, I think?) and so has a
friend of mine. I don't recall having had any failures-to-feed, or if
I have, it may have been only a few--like you said, when it was quite
new. I was out at the range a few weeks ago and put about 100-150
rounds through it without a single malfunction, and I was very pleased.
Since my friend and I have each purchased a Glock in the time
between now and our purchase of the PPKs, we're more partial to the
Glocks for defense--after all, THEY ARE utterly reliable, and more
powerful, and are higher capacity... My friend's PPK had given him a
problem that mine didn't ever have: during firing, the manual
safety/decocker would start to...Idunno..."drip" down, and eventually
it would cause a problem in the middle of a magazine. What I mean is,
the safety lever would sort of shake itself loose from the "fire"
position, and if you stopped and looked at it after a few rounds, you'd
see it somewhere between "fire" and "safe." Weird problem, I know.
I'm not sure if that happened at our last trip to the range (the time I
spoke of, when my PPK was flawless), but I remember that he lightened
up on his disdain for the PPK, and we both left the range with renewed
confidence in our little Walthers.
On the aside, though, there have been two other problems to plague
my PPK. When I first got it, there was some sort of ill-fit with a
part inside it, related to the trigger. I'm no gunsmith, but I *was*
able to take the grips off and identify the problem. One of the
hook-like thingies that engage the sear from the trigger bar (I hope
I'm using the right terms) would sorta catch, and then *just* miss,
causing a sort of "empty" trigger pull. I took it to my local shop and
the guy who sold it to me, a very likeable, friendly, knowledgeable and
*honest* man named Joe at The Campsite took the pistol apart with me,
we looked at it, and he replaced the badly-fitting part and sent me
home with a perfectly functioning gun.
The other problem with the PPK is that I began to notice small
spots of rust on the frame and parts of the slide. Like a total IDIOT,
I did NOT look into possible ways to remove this rust, and instead took
very fine sandpaper and lightly rubbed the rusty spots, taking the rust
off but leaving a "brilloed" look on the finish of the gun. I now have
fine circular scratches in an otherwise fine pistol. Anyone know
anything about getting the "smoothness" restored to the finish that I
f***ed up? Please let me know. Thanks. Oh, and GO WITH GLOCK!
Azure
Timothy Houser
"E.G. Clayton" <cla...@rouge.phys.lsu.edu> wrote:
#On 12 Feb 1997, JMJ-Strider wrote:
## Actually, the one I owned only jammed about once in every 7
## rounds. So it was about 86% reliable. I traded it on my first Beretta.
#Whenever one hears such a story, it is worth looking closer and seeing
#if ammunition choice was a factor. My PPK is as reliable as any other
#of my autopistols, and from the other satisfied PPK owners I've heard
#of, they seem never to have done anything special to their gun to make
#it reliable (i.e., no 1911-style throat/polish jobs, etc.). But PPK's
#have an admitted (clearly stated in the owner's manual) preference for
#the 95 gr FMJ, and it stands to reason that they will feed a round-shaped
#bullet more reliably. Mine has had *zero* failures with Winchester
#Silvertips. It does have a problem with Federal Hydra-Shoks, and I
#could probably reproduce your 1-in-7 experience if I simply took my
#PPK to the range with a few boxes of Hydra-Shoks, then gave up on it.
#This may not be what you did, but if your PPK jammed once in seven
#shots with FMJ or other roundnosed bullets, I would be interested to
#hear about it. Mine does not.
#There are other guns available that are less finicky about their
#bullets, but if you like the PPK, it can be a good carry gun with
#the proper ammunition.
#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
#Ed Clayton
#Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Ditto. My experience exactly, although my stainless PPK/S hasn't run
across a round yet that it didn't like. Personally though, I like the
Silvertips, and that is what all six of my Walthers' mags are loaded
with as I type.
Good Shooting.
Tim Houseer
Knoxville, Tennessee
Tim Houser
Knoxville, Tennessee
Thaine Hepler
rbo...@ix.netcom.com (Rick Boylan) wrote:
#In <5dt8gv$f...@xring.cs.umd.edu> bmw...@aol.com (BMWrdr) writes:
##
##Dont like the walther ppk. Nice to look at. Lousy to shoot. Too
#many
##sharp edges. Jams. Lousy trigger pull. Go for a little SW 5 shout
#in
##alloy and stainless. Neat. Light. EZ. Reliable. I have not tried
#the
##small Glocks, but I think they may have potential.
##
#I don't agree. I have a german made PPK/S and it has never jammed or
#failed to fire. It is my primary carry gun.
#I load it with Hydrashock hollow points, and trust it with my life.
Get a real Walther, not a make believe and you won't be sorry. You
pay for what you get. This is still one hard to beat pistol. I've
carried a pre "68 German made since the late 60's and it has never let
me down. I've had no failures and now feed ith Hydrashocks for the
best in stopage. It may not be a Nine or .45 but I can have it and my
NAA 22 without a problem in concealment or carry and feel totaly
comfortable I can choose from some of the best, but these work!!.
Rember, any gun is bettter than no gun and another gun is faster than
the fastest reload. Secondly most of us will never have to use what
we carry, however the fact we carry and are proficient with what we
carry may make the difference. My PPK in it's Milt Sparks summer
special is a constant companion. Far longer than two wives, numerous
girlfriends and a dog or two..
Steven Christian
Timothy Houser wrote:
#
# "E.G. Clayton" <cla...@rouge.phys.lsu.edu> wrote:
#
#
# ## rounds. So it was about 86% reliable. I traded it on my first Beretta.
#
# #Whenever one hears such a story, it is worth looking closer and seeing
# #if ammunition choice was a factor. My PPK is as reliable as any other
# #of my autopistols, and from the other satisfied PPK owners I've heard
# #of, they seem never to have done anything special to their gun to make
# #it reliable (i.e., no 1911-style throat/polish jobs, etc.). But PPK's
# #have an admitted (clearly stated in the owner's manual) preference for
# #the 95 gr FMJ, and it stands to reason that they will feed a round-shaped
# #bullet more reliably. Mine has had *zero* failures with Winchester
# #Silvertips. It does have a problem with Federal Hydra-Shoks, and I
# #could probably reproduce your 1-in-7 experience if I simply took my
# #PPK to the range with a few boxes of Hydra-Shoks, then gave up on it.
# #This may not be what you did, but if your PPK jammed once in seven
# #shots with FMJ or other roundnosed bullets, I would be interested to
# #hear about it. Mine does not.
#
# #There are other guns available that are less finicky about their
# #bullets, but if you like the PPK, it can be a good carry gun with
# #the proper ammunition.
#
# #--------------------------------------------------------------------------
#
# #Ed Clayton
# #Baton Rouge, Louisiana
#
# Ditto. My experience exactly, although my stainless PPK/S hasn't run
# across a round yet that it didn't like. Personally though, I like the
# Silvertips, and that is what all six of my Walthers' mags are loaded
# with as I type.
#
# Good Shooting.
#
# Tim Houseer
# Knoxville, Tennessee
#
# Tim Houser
# Knoxville, Tennessee
I just this past weekend had the chance to run a couple of mags through
my new PPK. I shot Silvertips and the PPK cycled through them as smooth
as silk. I also ran a couple mags through in under 3 seconds/mag to
stress it and viola nothing but hits and cleans ejects. I really think
Mr. (Herr) Walther knew what he was doing! Just my 2 bits worth.
Steve . . .
HMS Lion
PPs and PPKs are available in .32 ACP - PPs in particular. I've seen
PPS/Ss advertised in .32, but they're rare - since the gun was made for
the American market, most of them are in .380, with .22LR next.
BTW, the trick to not getting sliced by the slide is to avoid a
high-thumb hold. Hold a Walther PP like a 1911, and it'll take your thumb
off. Hold it like a revolver being fired DA - with the thumb down - and a
Walther is as sweet as a kitten.
V/R:
Mike McDaniel
E.G. Clayton
On 20 Feb 1997, HMS Lion wrote:
# BTW, the trick to not getting sliced by the slide is to avoid a
# high-thumb hold. Hold a Walther PP like a 1911, and it'll take your thumb
# off. Hold it like a revolver being fired DA - with the thumb down - and a
# Walther is as sweet as a kitten.
The slide does not cut my hand. There is a sharp corner on the tang on
the frame, corresponding to the beavertail part of a 1911 grip safety,
that digs into the base of my thumb and draws blood after about 50-75
rounds (although I've been practicing with this gun a lot lately
and I'm starting to get a callus; I wonder if you can spot PPK shooters
in a crowd by looking for people with battered thumbs).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Point-of-aim/Point-of-impact
In <5elnhb$i...@xring.cs.umd.edu> "E.G. Clayton"
<cla...@rouge.phys.lsu.edu> writes:
#
#On 20 Feb 1997, HMS Lion wrote:
#
## high-thumb hold. Hold a Walther PP like a 1911, and it'll take your
thumb
## off. Hold it like a revolver being fired DA - with the thumb down -
and a
## Walther is as sweet as a kitten.
#
#The slide does not cut my hand. There is a sharp corner on the tang
on
#the frame, corresponding to the beavertail part of a 1911 grip safety,
#that digs into the base of my thumb and draws blood after about 50-75
#rounds (although I've been practicing with this gun a lot lately
#and I'm starting to get a callus; I wonder if you can spot PPK
shooters
#in a crowd by looking for people with battered thumbs).
#
#----------------------------------------------------------------------
----
#
#Ed Clayton
#Baton Rouge, Louisiana
#
#
I was wondering; ever notice how the trigger on a PPK can really
start to irritate your finger after about 50 rounds, too? I'd be
interested in whether there is a smooth-surfaced trigger available from
somewhere to replace the stock grooved trigger on my PPK.
Azure
Jonas Smith
the ppk has a reputation for problems. It is also an unsafe design.
If you like the lines of the gun buy a Sig P230.
It looks alot like the PPK but it is a much safer design, without feeding
problems.
Heath
E.G. Clayton wrote:
#
#
# # high-thumb hold. Hold a Walther PP like a 1911, and it'll take your thumb
# # off. Hold it like a revolver being fired DA - with the thumb down - and a
# # Walther is as sweet as a kitten.
#
# The slide does not cut my hand. There is a sharp corner on the tang on
# the frame, corresponding to the beavertail part of a 1911 grip safety,
# that digs into the base of my thumb and draws blood after about 50-75
# rounds (although I've been practicing with this gun a lot lately
# and I'm starting to get a callus; I wonder if you can spot PPK shooters
# in a crowd by looking for people with battered thumbs).
#
# ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
#
# Ed Clayton
# Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Geeze! I have not encountered any of those problems at all with my
PPK/S
Maybe my hand fits the gun better than yours.
I've never cut myself on the slide or anything.
Heath
Timothy Houser
"Jonas Smith" <jo...@onramp.net> wrote:
#the ppk has a reputation for problems. It is also an unsafe design.
#If you like the lines of the gun buy a Sig P230.
#It looks alot like the PPK but it is a much safer design, without feeding
#problems.
If you bother to read some of the preceding posts, you may come to
realize that there is somewhat of a better overall "reputation" for
the Walthers than the one which you attribute, especially by people
like myself who have actually used them.
As for the safety of Walthers, well you are quite simply mistaken, and
should save such comments for other forums where others are equally as
ignorant of these weapons as you obviously are.
SIG P230's are nice guns, but like everything else they are not
perfect, and are in fact inferior to Walthers in some respects, which
may occur to you should ever you actually compare them.
Tim Houser
James Greenland
Jonas Smith wrote:
#
# the ppk has a reputation for problems. It is also an unsafe design.
# If you like the lines of the gun buy a Sig P230.
# It looks alot like the PPK but it is a much safer design, without feeding
# problems.
I'm sorry, but I gotta speak up. Reputation with who? Unsafe? How?
It is just as "safe" as the person behind it and it is every bit as
reliable as any autoloader, which is to say as reliable as the ammo it
is fed. People who are always having jams remind me of the gut
bellyachin about chopping wood with a dull axe. If its dull, sharpen
it. If it jams, fix it.
Jim Greenland
NRA Life Member
E.G. Clayton
On 25 Feb 1997, Heath wrote:
# E.G. Clayton wrote:
# # The slide does not cut my hand. There is a sharp corner on the tang on
# # the frame, corresponding to the beavertail part of a 1911 grip safety,
# # that digs into the base of my thumb and draws blood after about 50-75
# # rounds (although I've been practicing with this gun a lot lately
# # and I'm starting to get a callus; I wonder if you can spot PPK shooters
# # in a crowd by looking for people with battered thumbs).
# Geeze! I have not encountered any of those problems at all with my
# PPK/S
#
# Maybe my hand fits the gun better than yours.
# I've never cut myself on the slide or anything.
The blister forms where the web between my thumb and forefinger
meets the second knuckle of the thumb. It comes from the left corner
of the tang on the frame. I've never handled a PPK/S, so I don't know
how that would fit my hand. I cannot say that I find this feature of
my PPK endearing, but it is not bothersome when shooting a just few
magazines, only during extended practice, when I can tape that spot
and avoid it. I have noticed that my other pistols pound the same
spot a bit, but it is only noticeable once the PPK has softened it
up first. And I am not kidding about the callus. I've been shooting
the PPK once a week lately, and my thumb is getting progressively tougher.
I hope to be able to practice without band-aids before hot weather arrives
and I start carrying this gun.
Jonas Smith
James Greenland wrote:
#
# #
# # the ppk has a reputation for problems. It is also an unsafe design.
# # It looks alot like the PPK but it is a much safer design, without feeding
# # problems.
# I'm sorry, but I gotta speak up. Reputation with who? Unsafe? How?
# It is just as "safe" as the person behind it and it is every bit as
# reliable as any autoloader, which is to say as reliable as the ammo it
# is fed. People who are always having jams remind me of the gut
# bellyachin about chopping wood with a dull axe. If its dull, sharpen
# it. If it jams, fix it.
#
# Jim Greenland
# NRA Life Member
the ppk is not as safe design when compared to modern designs.
It was designed in the 30's with no firing pin block. Also, when the
manual saftey is off the hammer rests on the firing pin, which can
discharge if dropped.
If you compare that to a Sig P230, with a firing pin block and a hammer
at rest resessed from the blocked firing pin. That is a critical
difference.
also the PPK was designed to feed the only available 1930's ammo,
military hardball. It has not been redesigned to feed anything else.
As for abything is as safe as the person behind it... I don't think
your 1980 ford Pinto station wagon is as safe as a 1997 volvo. But a
good driver can overcome an unsafe design, and a careful shooter can
overcome an unsafe design. However, I have seen many guns dropped at
guns shows, on the range and in the field as a police officer. I
perfer to consider design safety, not just luck.
As for if it jams fix it.... I dont care how hard you press on the
pedel of a Yugo, it ain't going 150 miles an hour,and I don't know a
good enough mechanic to change that. If a gun is designed for 1930's
ball ammo it may or may not be easy to fix it to handle today's modern
defense loads. I know my 1911 can be modified to handle hollow points,
but i don't know about the PPK.
There are lots of authors who agree with this, and some who don't.
Like everything in this world, if you can stack the cards in your
favor....stack them, if you know the PPK has shortcommings, why not get
something better.
There is nothing wrong with a PPK, there is nothing wrong with a Yugo,
or a Pinto....But there are lots of other better choices.
ebae...@hospvd.ch
# If you bother to read some of the preceding posts, you may come to
# realize that there is somewhat of a better overall "reputation" for
# the Walthers than the one which you attribute, especially by people
# like myself who have actually used them.
I know two experienced PPK/S users. Both required a ramp polising in
order for their guns to feed reliably hollowpoint ammo, especially
the HydraShok.
I did hear that, with time (i.e. decades), some components of the
deckocking mechanism tend to break. A gun older than ten years (and
regularly used) may take profit of a yearly revision.
# SIG P230's are nice guns, but like everything else they are not
# perfect, and are in fact inferior to Walthers in some respects, which
# may occur to you should ever you actually compare them.
In which respects? I did compare several times my personal P-230
Stainless with the PPK/S of my friends. Althoug the PPK/S is an
excellent personal defense pistol, whose quality is close to the
one of the P-230, I did never find any aspect in which my P-230
SL is inferior to the PPK/S. My friends like it a lot too.
I noticed that my P-230 SL digests the Hydrashok without a hiccup
out of the box. I noticed a grip which is a lot better. I noticed
a better accuracy. Its trigger is gorgeous out of the box. It has
excellent sights. Finally It is as concealable as the PPK/S.
Emmanuel Baechler
Chemin du Stade 4
1007 Lausanne
Switzerland
Timothy Houser
ebae...@hospvd.ch wrote:
#I know two experienced PPK/S users. Both required a ramp polising in
#order for their guns to feed reliably hollowpoint ammo, especially
#the HydraShok.
I have not tried HydraShoks. Both of my present Walthers (and the
other .380ACP I had before these) feed Winchester Western Silvertip
Hollowpoints as well as JHP gunshow reloads 100%, with no
modification. My stainless PPK/S has over 1,0000 rounds through it,
without any misfeeds whatsoever. The blued Manhurin has no problems
with the Silvertips, but hasn't been shot over a couple of hundred
times.
#I did hear that, with time (i.e. decades), some components of the
#deckocking mechanism tend to break. A gun older than ten years (and
#regularly used) may take profit of a yearly revision.
Anything will break over time. My oldest Walther is starting it's
second decade without any problems so far. The alloy framed SIG's
haven't been around for enough "decades" to see what will break on
them yet, although I doubt they are immune from wear and tear.
#In which respects? I did compare several times my personal P-230
#Stainless with the PPK/S of my friends. Althoug the PPK/S is an
#excellent personal defense pistol, whose quality is close to the
#one of the P-230, I did never find any aspect in which my P-230
#SL is inferior to the PPK/S. My friends like it a lot too.
Both the Walther PPK and PPK/S are smaller dimensionally than the SIG
P230. The Walthers have a barrel mounted to the frame, and tend to be
a little more accurate for their size, but not of any real
significance for defensive use. Of no importance to me, but some to
others, the Walthers have a positve safety in addition to the
decocking lever. Finally, although the double action trigger pull on
the Walthers tend to be heavier, it isn't as "mushy" as the SIG P230,
and the single action trigger is typically very good straight out of
the box. For what it's worth, my friends like my Walthers. My wife,
on the other hand, likes the SIG P230 because the recoil spring is a
lighter, making it a little easier to manipulate the slide. However,
she has no problems firing the Walther rather well.
#I noticed that my P-230 SL digests the Hydrashok without a hiccup
#out of the box. I noticed a grip which is a lot better. I noticed
#a better accuracy. Its trigger is gorgeous out of the box. It has
#excellent sights. Finally It is as concealable as the PPK/S.
I disagree that the grip is better. It is compareable to the PPK/S
and PP, but the grip panels tend to loosen on the SIG P230. With
quality aftermarket grips like Pachymar and Hogue, the PPK/S and SIG
P230 are apples to apples. The PPK has a different (and less
comfortable) grip frame and plastic wraparound grips, but that is a
tradeoff for its more desireable size. The SIG P230 is larger overall
than either the PPK or PPK/S, and accordingly less concealable. Size
is a very important characteristic in weapons of this calibur,
everything else being equal.
The PPK/S model may be a configuration more peculiar to the United
States market, and in all fairness you may not have experience with
that model. It is basically a PPK on a PP grip frame. Since the SIG
is of Swiss design, you may understandably have some extra pride in
its origin. My comparison of the Walther PP series to the SIG P230
ends with the conclusion that they are both very fine (if not the
"best") weapons for their calibur, and of high quality. A choice
between them is more a matter of personal preference than objective
factors. I have carried Walthers for a long time before the Sig P230
was introduced, so I like their familiarity and handling
characteristics. However, I do like the SIG's lighter weight for a
carry gun, and the passive firing pin block, and the fact that Hogue
makes their nice rubber wraparound grips for them (and not yet for the
Walthers). I cannot agree based on experience that the SIG P230's are
always going to be more reliable than the Walthers, as my Walthers
have always been reliable, and I suspect that some SIG's have had
their problems on occassion.
Look a little closer, and you might "notice" some of the little
differences that I have mentioned. Whether or not they prove to be
important to you, well again that has everything to do with your
personal preference, not the quality of the guns.
Tim Houser
United States
E.G. Clayton
On 27 Feb 1997 ebae...@hospvd.ch wrote:
# I know two experienced PPK/S users. Both required a ramp polising in
# order for their guns to feed reliably hollowpoint ammo, especially
# the HydraShok.
The .380 Hydra-Shok has a truncated-cone bullet. Choosing a hollowpoint
with a more rounded bullet shape assists feeding in a PPK, and it seems
that many of us are able to find one that works without any feedramp
work. The Winchester Silvertip works well for me.
# I noticed that my P-230 SL digests the Hydrashok without a hiccup
# out of the box. I noticed a grip which is a lot better. I noticed
# a better accuracy. Its trigger is gorgeous out of the box. It has
# excellent sights. Finally It is as concealable as the PPK/S.
But it is not as concealable as the PPK. I looked at the P230 when
I was buying my .380, and liked it a lot. Nice handling characteristics,
light weight, even cheaper than a PPK. I bought the PPK because it
is significantly shorter in the grip and slimmer overall than the
P230.
As for accuracy, I never fired the P230, but the PPK is accurate enough
for a pocket pistol. I don't really care what kind of groups it shoots
from a machine rest.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
J. Edward Banasik
Emmanuel's posting has brought up an interesting point. Most if not all of
the PPK and PPK/S sold here in the USA are manufactured (under a license of
Carl Walther Waffenfabrik, Ulm/Do.) in the USA by Interarms of Alexandria,
Virginia. I would guess that there are several other licensed manufactures
of the "Walther" around the world. Could the quality of the firearm be
different from some sources? Maybe there are some design differences also.
My point is, that my .380 PPK/S has performed flawlessly as long as I don't
let the recoil rotate the barrel upward very much. No ramp polishing has
been required. My standard load is the Remington Golden Saber. [This is a
wicked hollow point!]
As for the safety..... Rotating the safety lever blocks the hammer from
reaching the firing pin. By the way, this isn't a "decocker" in the sense
of a SIG design. The SIG lets you slowly release the hammer. In the
Walther, the safety trips the hammer and lets it hit on the firing pin
blocker. USING THE SAFETY LEVER AS A "DECOCKER" IS NOT RECOMMENDED!
Letting the hammer fall on the firing pin blocker, will in time, break the
blocker and, I suspect, will cause the gun to fire. [You will see a
similar warning in the booklet from Interarms.] The best way to decock and
put the safety on is to: 1) point the gun in a safe direction 2) securely
place thumb on the hammer 3) pull and hold trigger 4) slowly let the hammer
down 5) THEN TURN SAFETY LEVER.
I guess that because it is a "Walther" doesn't always make it a great gun.
Just like doctors and attorneys, there are great ones and there are very
poor ones. I would trade any of my other guns before I would give up my
PPK/S.
Jerry Banasik
ebae...@hospvd.ch wrote in article <5f4b34$h...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# # If you bother to read some of the preceding posts, you may come to
# # realize that there is somewhat of a better overall "reputation" for
# # the Walthers than the one which you attribute, especially by people
# # like myself who have actually used them.
#
# I know two experienced PPK/S users. Both required a ramp polising in
# order for their guns to feed reliably hollowpoint ammo, especially
# the HydraShok.
#
# I did hear that, with time (i.e. decades), some components of the
# deckocking mechanism tend to break. A gun older than ten years (and
# regularly used) may take profit of a yearly revision.
#
# # SIG P230's are nice guns, but like everything else they are not
# # perfect, and are in fact inferior to Walthers in some respects, which
# # may occur to you should ever you actually compare them.
#
# In which respects? I did compare several times my personal P-230
# Stainless with the PPK/S of my friends. Althoug the PPK/S is an
# excellent personal defense pistol, whose quality is close to the
# one of the P-230, I did never find any aspect in which my P-230
# SL is inferior to the PPK/S. My friends like it a lot too.
#
# I noticed that my P-230 SL digests the Hydrashok without a hiccup
# out of the box. I noticed a grip which is a lot better. I noticed
# a better accuracy. Its trigger is gorgeous out of the box. It has
# excellent sights. Finally It is as concealable as the PPK/S.
#
# Emmanuel Baechler
# Chemin du Stade 4
# 1007 Lausanne
# Switzerland
#
#
James Greenland
Jonas Smith wrote:
> ...
You keep right on relying on firing pin locks and such. Probably it is
for the best.
Steve Geller
I had problems with my PPK/S jamming also. Usualy every 4th round or so
would jam.
Another thing i came across that occasionaly after firing 3 rounds in
succession . .the safety would flip down enough to prevent the gun from
firing.
Not a good thing in my book.
But to end my story, the damn slide cut me the other day so i went right
to the local sports shop and traded it in on an H&K USP .45
I am very satisfied with the USP.. my first clip of 10 at 20 yards I got a
grouping of 2 inches with 2 stray shots.. still within 4 inches.
All i have to do now is find a cood CC holster.
KYRIEELLIS
On Date: 27 Feb 1997 10:20:05, jo...@onramp.net (Jonas Smith) wrote:
#the ppk is not as safe design when compared to modern designs.
With all due respect, this is nonsense.
#It was designed in the 30's with no firing pin block.
This is true, and irrelevant from a stand point of safety. One wonders
if the poster can name a single current production revolver which has a
passive firing pin block. IMHO, the PPK doesn't *have* a passive firing
pin block because it doesn't *need* one.
#Also, when the manual saftey is off the hammer rests on the firing pin,
#which can discharge if dropped.
This is false. When the hammer is down and the manual safety is off,
the hammer is prevented from contacting the firing pin by the same type of
hammer block found on current production S&W revolvers.
#If you compare that to a Sig P230, with a firing pin block and a hammer
#at rest resessed from the blocked firing pin. That is a critical
#difference.
Sorry, but zero difference. The same goal is accomplished via different
means.
#also the PPK was designed to feed the only available 1930's ammo,
#military hardball. It has not been redesigned to feed anything else.
One wonders how the poster knows this to be the case? How many Walther
engineers do you suppose he has discussed this with?
< offensive comparison of Pinto and Volvo snipped>
#However, I have seen many guns dropped at guns shows, on the range
#and in the field as a police officer. I perfer to consider design
safety,
#not just luck.
I concur. But it would be a good idea to base that consideration on
knowledge rather than rumor.
< irrelevant comment about Yugo snipped>
#If a gun is designed for 1930's ball ammo it may or may not be easy to
#fix it to handle today's modern defense loads. I know my 1911 can be
#modified to handle hollow points, but i don't know about the PPK.
And therein lies the problem with this post. If the poster were better
acquainted with the Walther his opinion would likely be quite different.
#There are lots of authors who agree with this, and some who don't.
Partially true. A more accurate statement would be "There are some
authors who agree with this, and some who don't."
#Like everything in this world, if you can stack the cards in your
#favor....stack them, if you know the PPK has shortcommings, why not
#get something better.
I don't know of *any* firearm which is without shortcomings of some
kind. Neither the P230 or the PPK are exceptions to this and we each get
to choose the firearm best meets our needs. That this poster has chosen to
denigrate a firearm about which he knows very little (and most of that is
wrong) is unfortunate.
Regards,
Kyrie
ebae...@hospvd.ch
# #It was designed in the 30's with no firing pin block.
# This is true, and irrelevant from a stand point of safety. One wonders
# if the poster can name a single current production revolver which has a
# passive firing pin block. IMHO, the PPK doesn't *have* a passive firing
# pin block because it doesn't *need* one.
ALL decent revolvers have an equivalent mechanism. The two most popular
are the "Iver Jonhson" and the "rebounding hammer". The first one is
favored by Colt and by Ruger, while S&W uses the second one. I don't
know
which one is used by Taurus and Rossi.
The "Iver jonhson" system uses a separate firing pin and a transfer bar.
As long as the hammer is not fully cocked, the position of the transfer
bar is such that the gun cannot fire. The rebounding hammer forces a
partial
backward motion of the hammer when the shooter releases the trigger.
# #also the PPK was designed to feed the only available 1930's ammo,
# #military hardball. It has not been redesigned to feed anything else.
# One wonders how the poster knows this to be the case? How many Walther
# engineers do you suppose he has discussed this with?
It is a matter of fact that the PPK was designed in Germany during the
early
thirties. It is another matter of fact that, at that time hollowpoint
ammo
did not exist in Germany.
It is also another matter of fact that the PPK had be designed in a
country
where truely private firearms R&D did never exist. Compagnies like
Walther
did always design and produce with the police or the army as their
primary
market. Both Walther and Manurhin did produce guns for european police
units
which did never consider the use of hollowpoint ammo. So I definitely
doubt
that a design change, especially at the level of the ramp, did ever
happen
in this domain.
KYRIE...@aol.com
#> #also the PPK was designed to feed the only available 1930's ammo,
#> #military hardball. It has not been redesigned to feed anything else.
#> One wonders how the poster knows this to be the case? How many
#>Walther engineers do you suppose he has discussed this with?
#It is a matter of fact that the PPK was designed in Germany during the
#early thirties.
True.
# It is another matter of fact that, at that time hollowpoint ammo
#did not exist in Germany.
With respect, look again. Hollow point, soft point, and even cup point
pistol ammunition had been developed and sold in Germany as early as
shortly after the turn of the century.
#It is also another matter of fact that the PPK had be designed in a
#country where truely private firearms R&D did never exist.
As Walther, Mauser, and a host of other companies were privately
owned and operated your meaning is a bit obscure.
# Compagnies like Walther did always design and produce with the
#police or the army as their primary market.
Please remember that "primary" is not a synonym for "exclusive".
Walther was, and is, a firm dedicated to showing a profit. They catered
to the civilian market as well as the military one. Consider that Walther
continued limited commercial production and sale
of the Walther HP right up to almost the end of WWII.
#Both Walther and Manurhin did produce guns for european police
#units which did never consider the use of hollowpoint ammo.
And both produced firearms for the commercial market as well. With
respect, I think you are giving more significance to the impact of having
the military as a large customer than it warrants. In post WWII Europe
both Manurhin, and later Walther, were selling in a global marketplace
where civilian purchases were a significant factor in showing a profit.
#So I definitely doubt that a design change, especially at the level of the
#ramp, did ever happen in this domain.
You are certainly as welcome to your opinion as I am to mine. What I
took exception to was the previous poster's similar statement, when he
made that statement as a statement of fact, rather than opinion.
In any event, the question as to whether the Walther line of pistols
were redesigned for the use of hollow/soft point bullets begs the
question. For this issue to carry any weight would first require the
demonstration that the PPK or PP have difficulty feeding hollow/soft
point ammunition. It has been my experience that they will all feed most
kinds of jacketed hollow point ammunition.
While on this topic, let me share with you a recent experience I had at
the range. I was shooting next to a fellow who had just bought one of the
American produced .380 ACP PPKs and he was having a devil of a time
with feeding problems. He could not get through a six round magazine
w/o stopping to clear some kind of a problem.
At the time, I was shooting a Walther PP in .22 LR and a Manurhin PP
in .32 ACP. This other shooter noticed what I was shooting, and asked
for my opinion. I gave him a box of FMJ .380. He had the same
problems with the FMJ ammunition as with the JHPs. At that point I
asked if I could try and he surrendered his shooting point to me.
I fired two magazines (12 rounds) of FMJ w/o problems of any kind. I
also fired two magazines each of Federal 90 grain JHP's, and
Remington Golden something-or-other without any problems. The owner
reclaimed his PPK and tried again, with the same problems he had
before. FWIW, this is not the first time I've had this experience. It
appears that the PPK is not for everyone, just as the Glock is not for
everyone (my 82 year old mother cannot fire two consecutive rounds
from my Glock M19 w/o a failure to feed).
Based on my experience, attributing the problems encountered by
some shooters with JHP ammunition in their PPKs to a design problem
with the PPK is simply not supported by the facts. If there were a design
problem of this kind, then *everybody* would be having problems - and
that is simply not the case.
Regards,
Kyrie
E.G. Clayton
On 3 Mar 1997 ebae...@hospvd.ch wrote:
# # #It was designed in the 30's with no firing pin block.
# # This is true, and irrelevant from a stand point of safety. One wonders
# # if the poster can name a single current production revolver which has a
# # passive firing pin block. IMHO, the PPK doesn't *have* a passive firing
# # pin block because it doesn't *need* one.
#
# ALL decent revolvers have an equivalent mechanism. The two most popular
# are the "Iver Jonhson" and the "rebounding hammer". The first one is
# favored by Colt and by Ruger, while S&W uses the second one. I don't
# know
# which one is used by Taurus and Rossi.
I think his point is that these revolvers do not have a passive firing
pin block to prevent the firing pin inertia from discharging a cartridge
if the weapon is dropped. I'm not sure how the S&W system works, but
the Colt/Ruger transfer bar, while preventing a blow to the hammer from
discharging the gun when the trigger is not pulled, does nothing to
restrain the firing pin when it slams forward under its own inertia.
This does not make these guns unsafe; such an inertial discharge
is extremely rare and unlikely and requires several improbable things
all to happen at once. Hence the PPK lacking such a feature is not
a very compelling indictment that the design is "unsafe". If you're
worried about firing pin inertia discharging either a PPK or a revolver
with a transfer bar, then all you have to do is avoid dropping the
gun straight down from a great height onto a steel or concrete deck;
and if this does happen, the gun will fire straight into the ground.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen Swartz
Ed:
I'd like to second your well-made points but carry the argument even
further!
Regarding the "inertia of the firing pin" having enough momentum to
touch off a primer, IIRC this topic was discussed several months ago.
I don't remember the math exactly; but someone calculated the velocity
required of a firearm hitting directly nose-first in order for an
*unrestrained* (no spring) firing pin to detonate a primer.
What I do remember is that the velocity needed was substantially
higher than what would be achieved under any "normal" conditions.
I don't remember all the details, but I think the calculations assumed
the pistol being dropped nose-first from a height of 6 feet.
In other words, using the mass of a "typical" firing pin, and assuming
the pin is "free floating" (no spring), and assuming a typical primer/
cartridge
"there just ain't no way"
that dropping a firearm would result in the cartridge going off as a result
of firing pin inertia *alone*.
When you add the resistance of a spring, it makes the inertia thing even
less likely.
Unless, mebbe, the firearm were dropped from the observation deck of the
Empire State Building.
Now, lots of other stuff can happen to make the gun go off, but firing
pin inertia isn't one of them.
Steve
In article <5fhhpq$k...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, "E.G. Clayton" <cla...@rouge.phys.lsu.edu> says:
#
#On 3 Mar 1997 ebae...@hospvd.ch wrote:
#
## # #It was designed in the 30's with no firing pin block.
## # This is true, and irrelevant from a stand point of safety. One wonders
## # if the poster can name a single current production revolver which has a
## # passive firing pin block. IMHO, the PPK doesn't *have* a passive firing
## # pin block because it doesn't *need* one.
##
## ALL decent revolvers have an equivalent mechanism. The two most popular
## are the "Iver Jonhson" and the "rebounding hammer". The first one is
## favored by Colt and by Ruger, while S&W uses the second one. I don't
## know
## which one is used by Taurus and Rossi.
#
#I think his point is that these revolvers do not have a passive firing
#pin block to prevent the firing pin inertia from discharging a cartridge
#if the weapon is dropped. I'm not sure how the S&W system works, but
#the Colt/Ruger transfer bar, while preventing a blow to the hammer from
#discharging the gun when the trigger is not pulled, does nothing to
#restrain the firing pin when it slams forward under its own inertia.
#This does not make these guns unsafe; such an inertial discharge
#is extremely rare and unlikely and requires several improbable things
#all to happen at once. Hence the PPK lacking such a feature is not
#a very compelling indictment that the design is "unsafe". If you're
#worried about firing pin inertia discharging either a PPK or a revolver
#with a transfer bar, then all you have to do is avoid dropping the
#gun straight down from a great height onto a steel or concrete deck;
#and if this does happen, the gun will fire straight into the ground.
#
#---------------------------------------------------------------------------
#
#Ed Clayton
#Baton Rouge, Louisiana
#
#
#
Barry E. Henley
Jonas Smith wrote:
# the ppk is not as safe design when compared to modern designs.
#
# It was designed in the 30's with no firing pin block. Also, when the
# manual saftey is off the hammer rests on the firing pin, which can
# discharge if dropped.
My 1980's vintage PPK/S locks the firing pin in place when the safety is
on. I have the slide in my hand as I write this. It can't move forward.
I think you are misinformed.
--
b...@mindspring.com
Barry E. Henley - Riverdale, GA - USA
http://www.mindspring.com/~beh
E.G. Clayton
swar...@pilot.msu.edu (Stephen Swartz) wrote:
[snip]
# In other words, using the mass of a "typical" firing pin, and assuming
# the pin is "free floating" (no spring), and assuming a typical primer/
# cartridge
#
# "there just ain't no way"
#
# that dropping a firearm would result in the cartridge going off as a
# result
# of firing pin inertia *alone*.
Yes, I agree completely, although there are variables involved, such as
the sensitivity of the primer. As usual, Jeff Cooper has something to say
on this subject, and says it better than I can:
"In classes back at Orange Gunsite, I used to point out that how
much drop is necessary to fire a 1911-type pistol depends upon
four variables -
1. the composition of the primer compound,
2. the strength of the primer metal,
3. the condition of the firing-pin return-spring, and
4. the cleanliness of the firing-pin channel.
If all these variables are stacked in one direction you could
probably fire the piece by dropping it no more than 3 feet. If
they are all stacked in the other direction you could drop a
piece out of an airplane without its firing, even if it lands
straight muzzle-down. The point is it simply does not matter
whether it does or not. To arrange to have some passerby standing
directly underneath the weapon when it is dropped from high enough
onto a very rigid surface, which is also fragile enough to permit
a bullet to penetrate it, is going to take more organization than
we have time for."
...which is why I do not fear for my safety due to my PPK's lack of a
passive firing pin block. (I might also add that I am not the least
bit grateful to Colt for adding this useless feature to their Series 80
.45's.) Of course, my first line of defense against an inertial discharge
is that I have no plans of dropping my pistol!
E.G. Clayton
"J. Edward Banasik" <cybe...@wt.net> wrote:
# In the
# Walther, the safety trips the hammer and lets it hit on the firing pin
# blocker. USING THE SAFETY LEVER AS A "DECOCKER" IS NOT RECOMMENDED!
#
# Letting the hammer fall on the firing pin blocker, will in time, break the
# blocker and, I suspect, will cause the gun to fire. [You will see a
# similar warning in the booklet from Interarms.] The best way to decock and
# put the safety on is to: 1) point the gun in a safe direction 2) securely
# place thumb on the hammer 3) pull and hold trigger 4) slowly let the hammer
# down 5) THEN TURN SAFETY LEVER.
I guess I agree with (1) and (2), that's about it. This method will work
fine if you are careful, but since the firing pin block is there, why not
take advantage of it? If you are worried about it breaking, then hold
the hammer securely while you engage the safety. Then let the hammer down
slowly while the safety is on. Then there is no impact on the block, yet
it is in place to shield the firing pin should your thumb slip.
I agree that you should never rely entirely on any decocking device; any
pistol with a decocker should always be pointed in a safe direction while
decocking.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
LORIKIRK
I just bought a Walther PPK/S .380
ACP and was wondering if you might give me some info...
I've read a bit on the ng about it not being very powerful. If I use
Federal hollow points, is it an adequate defense weapon? Should I have
bought a 9mm Para?
Also, I'm having some trouble with the slide. It's incredibly stiff,
making it hard to pull all the way back at times, which results in the
cartridge entering the chamber incorrectly. Will this loosen up? I'm
already thinking of using gloves for target practice. The magazine is
also tight and after I've loaded 5 rounds, it's a struggle to get any more
in. I'm worried that too much pressure will damage the integrity of the
magazine, the cartridge I'm loading or the one that's loaded on top.
Any other tips? I really appreciate your help. Thanks. Lori
Chris Meissen
On 6 Mar 1997 09:46:18 -0500, "Barry E. Henley" <b...@mindspring.com>
wrote:
#Jonas Smith wrote:
## the ppk is not as safe design when compared to modern designs.
## It was designed in the 30's with no firing pin block. Also, when the
## manual saftey is off the hammer rests on the firing pin, which can
## discharge if dropped.
#
#
#My 1980's vintage PPK/S locks the firing pin in place when the safety is
#on. I have the slide in my hand as I write this. It can't move forward.
#I think you are misinformed.
I too, as I write, have my PPK/S slide next to me for reference. The
firing pin has a ball near the rear with a total diameter approx.
twice that of the firing pin itself. The safety pivot has a cutout to
allow passage of that enlarged portion of the firing pin only when the
safety is in the "FIRE" position and a reduced diameter section to
retain that part of the firing pin in the SAFE position. The firing
pin cannot move if the safety is ON. Furthermore, the safety
tumbler/pivot extends beyond the end of the firing pin by a few
millimeters to prevent any contact between hammer and pin while the
safety is on. Furthermore again, there is a block as part of the
trigger mechanism that blocks the hammer from moving foreward and
hitting the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled regardless of the
safety position. Add to this the excellent visible/tactile loaded
chamber indicator and this has to be one of the safest, most foolproof
firearms ever designed, 1930 vintage or not.
I would also like to add that it's one of the most reliable firearms
I've ever owned. It's reliably fired everything I've ever tried to
feed it without jamming, except . . . one young lady I allowed to
shoot it held it with a V-E-R-Y limp, bent wrist and it would jam
every time for her simply because she didn't offer enough resistance
for the slide to recoil fully. That is no reflection upon the gun as
no semi-auto can function if the frame is allowed to recoil with the
slide.
William Barwell
In article <5ft66k$i...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, LORIKIRK <lori...@aol.com> wrote:
# I just bought a Walther PPK/S .380
#ACP and was wondering if you might give me some info...
#
#I've read a bit on the ng about it not being very powerful. If I use
#Federal hollow points, is it an adequate defense weapon? Should I have
#bought a 9mm Para?
9mm is a definitely more powerful and adequate round.
.380 is still acceptable, but you have to realize it
is limited and if you ever have to use it, that you will have to make sure
you place your bullets where they count.
Not all .380 ammo is the same either.
For better stopping power use Federal JHP or Cor-bon JHP+ or Triton JHP +P
loads. Magsafes are another good possibility.
This will give you 'one shot stops' of about 70%.
#
#Also, I'm having some trouble with the slide. It's incredibly stiff,
#making it hard to pull all the way back at times, which results in the
#cartridge entering the chamber incorrectly. Will this loosen up?
No. The Walther is a blowback design and relies on a stiff recoil spring
to work properly. To work it properly takes practice, if you aren't
exactly brawny. The trick is to grasp the slide firmly and pull back and
release quickly. Almost jerking the slide back rather than pulling.
I'm
#already thinking of using gloves for target practice. The magazine is
#also tight and after I've loaded 5 rounds, it's a struggle to get any more
#in. I'm worried that too much pressure will damage the integrity of the
#magazine, the cartridge I'm loading or the one that's loaded on top.
#
#Any other tips? I really appreciate your help. Thanks. Lori
#
#
Walthers are a bit tight from the factory, but will loosen up
with use. Fiocchi makes a hotter ammo that's good for practice
with Walthers.
Once you get a Walther well broken in and get used to it's
stiff slide, there is no more accurate small pocket pistol.
That is the .380 Walther PPK/S strong point.
Pope Charles
SubGenius Pope Of Houston
Slack!
a31565...@gmail.com
# I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
# Walther PPK's.
# If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
# reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
I've had a Walther PPK - - .380 for 28 years - - even had the factory re-work it as a
Law Enforcement Back-up pistol. Never - - EVER - - got it right - - the feed ramp - -
is the worst - - too much rise - - w/ a full clip - - one in the tube - - it is a
single shot pistol - - jams every time. Don't bet your life on James Bond - - - as much
as I love the movies - - the gun could have been a better choice - - - LIKE ANY GUN.
Sorry Walther - - The PPK .380 is a SHIT GUN . Beautiful - - Loved the movies - - but
not anyone's best best effort.
a31565...@gmail.com
# I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
# Walther PPK's.
# If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
# reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
shot - - than rely on the PPK. SUPER UNRELIABLE - - - sorry 3 re-works by qualified
gunsmiths and the factory - - - full clip - - still fires one shot - - then jams
- - - do NOT - - bet your LIFE - - on this pistol - - - even the company says they
- - " WELL - - I GUESS WE MISSED A LOADING RAMP PROBLEM" - -- what - - - missed a
loading ramp problem - - - I wouldn't carry this anywhere. Sorry Walther - - GREAT
name - - SHITTY PISTOL AND NO OFFERS TO FIX .
Pavel Svinchnik
# lish...@aol.com (LISHacker) wrote:
#
# #I am trying to get information on the "out of the box" reliability of
# #Walther PPK's.
# #If you own one. Please share your experience. Did you have feed
# #reliability problems with it or was it totally reliable.
#
# #Thanks in advance for the info.
#
#
# Wonderful guns for their calibur, and extremely accurate for their
# size. Since you sound like you are merely taking a poll, I would like
# to throw in my two cents worth since I have owned and/or shot several
# Walthers down through the years.
#
# My stainless Walther PPK/S (same gun as PPK with a longer grip) has
# been 100% reliable for more rounds than I have kept count of (at least
# 1,000), including primarily WW Silvertips, WW SXT, Remiington RN, PMC
# RN, and JHP reloads. I do not even recall if this gun jammed at all
# when it was new over 10 years ago, but do know from my past experience
# with others that they can take a couple of hundred rounds to get
# beyond an occsional jam every now and then. I have always attributed
# this to the tight tolerances of the Walthers more than anything else,
# but their feed ramps are not of optimal design for hollowpoint
# ammunition. However, all of mine have settled down to be completely
# reliable with hollowpoints like the WW STHP, even if they started off
# a bit erratic. These include German, French and, yes, even American
# models, mostly in .380acp calibur,
#
# Others have stated different experiences with the Walthers, but I
# thought that you should have at least one positive comment before the
# Walther distractors get started bragging on their Glocks, SIG's,
# Kahr's and Makarov's, and maybe a Colt or two. I just really do not
# understand why others have problems with the Walthers, unless of
# course it isn't the Walthers causing the problem.
My wife bought a .380 Bersa years before we were married. She rarely shot it,
so when we took it to the range it had some feed problems. Our gunsmith polished
off a burr and now it works very reliably.
Paul