BRNO BBK/ZKK action
SMicha6551
There used to be a rifle by BRNO, called the BBK-602, as well as a Korean copy
called the ZKK. They were large magnum actions. Dose anyone know of one for
sale, rifle or action only. Thanks!
Steven Michaels
NRA Life Member
P. A. Harrington
smich...@aol.com (SMicha6551) wrote:
#There used to be a rifle by BRNO, called the BBK-602, as well as a Korean copy
#called the ZKK. They were large magnum actions. Dose anyone know of one for
#sale, rifle or action only. Thanks!
#
#Steven Michaels
#NRA Life Member
#
Actually, there used to be a rifle from Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ),
headquartered in Brno, Czech Republic called the ZKK (Brno is the name
of a town, not an arms manufacturer). The ZKK came in 3 models, the
600, 601, and 602. All were bolt actions in European style hunting
configuration (schnabel forends and droopy, wide buttstocks). The
action is an updated Mauser action with a non-rotating claw extractor.
It has built in scope mounts, a la Ruger, except that they accept
regular Weaver style rings. Lock time is nothing spectacular, but
their triggers were delightful!
The ZKK600 was a medium length action which would accept cartridges up
to 3.15 inches OAL, and case head of 0.472. Generally, the box mag
would hold 5 cartridges, except for the 10.75x68, which limited
capacity to 4. Other cartridges the 600 was chambered in were 30-06,
7x57, 9.3x62, 8x57, 8x64, and 270 Win.
The ZKK601 was the short action version. It would take cartridges up
to 2.76 inches long and case heads up to 0.472 inches. Chamberings
included 222 Rem Mag, 222 Rem, 243 Win, and 308 Win. The mag would
hold 6 each of the 222s and 5 of the 243 & 308.
The ZKK602 was the magnum length action. It will take cartridges up
to 3.75 inches with a head diameter of 0.552 inches or less. Its big
enough to hold 5 of the traditional "dangerous game" magnum
cartridges, which include 375 H&H Mag, 358 Norma Mag, and 458 Win Mag.
The ZKK602 comes with a three leaf express sight.
ZKKs are classy guns. They were made of Czeck Poldi steel. The one
complaint I have (other than stock design which is easily remedied) is
that they have the stock screwed to the barrel about 6 inches forward
of the recoil lug. I feel like this limits the accuracy potential.
The BBKs were the Korean copies. to the best of my knowledge BBKs
were only actions and were never assembled as complete rifles.
I could be wrong about that.
..P
Please remove the ".ns." in my email address. My hope is that
it cuts down on the spam in my reader.
KYRIEELLIS
In article <6kn8in$c...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, harr...@mind.ns.spring.com (P.=
A.
Harrington) writes:
#Actually, there used to be a rifle from Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ),
#headquartered in Brno, Czech Republic called the ZKK (Brno is the name
#of a town, not an arms manufacturer).=20
<snip>
Actually <smile>, the Brno marked rifles were made by Ceskoslovenska
Zbrojovka of Brno rather than Cesk=E1 Zbrojovka (which is located in Uher=
sky
Brod). The Models ZKM, ZKK, and ZKB were manufactured by Cesk=E1 Zbrojovk=
a.
Cesk=E1 Zbrojovka has a net site at http://www.czub.cz - I don't know =
if
Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka still exists.
Kyrie
P. A. Harrington
kyrie...@aol.com (KYRIEELLIS) wrote:
#In article <6kn8in$c...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, harr...@mind.ns.spring.com (P.=
# A.
#Harrington) writes:
#
##Actually, there used to be a rifle from Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ),
##headquartered in Brno, Czech Republic called the ZKK (Brno is the name
##of a town, not an arms manufacturer).=20
# <snip>
#
# Actually <smile>, the Brno marked rifles were made by Ceskoslovenska
#Zbrojovka of Brno rather than Cesk=E1 Zbrojovka (which is located in Uher=
#sky
#Brod). The Models ZKM, ZKK, and ZKB were manufactured by Cesk=E1 Zbrojovk=
#a.
#
# Cesk=E1 Zbrojovka has a net site at http://www.czub.cz - I don't know =
#if
#Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka still exists.
#
#Kyrie
#
Actually <wider smile> The Brno "trademark" is also still in use by
Ceska Zbrojovka. I happened to be at a gun show just this weekend and
examined a brand new CZ 22 RF. "BRNO" was prominently printed on its
box.
Consider that the Czech Republic has disassociated itself with
Slovenia. It would be natural to assume that CZ would drop the
"slovenska" portion of its name. They are the same company,
reorganized.
KYRIEELLIS
In article <6kv9fm$2...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, harr...@mind.ns.spring.com (P. A.
Harrington) writes:
# Actually <wider smile> The Brno "trademark" is also still in use by
#Ceska Zbrojovka. I happened to be at a gun show just this weekend and
#examined a brand new CZ 22 RF. "BRNO" was prominently printed on its
#box.
Interesting! The box mine came in had no mention of Brno. I really wonder
what, if anything, is going on at Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka. I was not able to
find them in a directory of Czech businesses and have heard nothing about them
for several years.
#Consider that the Czech Republic has disassociated itself with
#Slovenia. It would be natural to assume that CZ would drop the
#"slovenska" portion of its name. They are the same company,
#reorganized.
I'm not sure just what you mean.. Are you saying Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka
and Ceska Zbrojovka are the same company or that "CZ" is the trademark of
Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka? If so, I can say neither of these is true :-)
Kyrie
Stanislav Vlcek
A small correction. Czech Republic has never disassociated itself from
Slovenia since it never has been part of or asossociated with
Czechoslovakia.
Slovenia is situated or was a part of what once was Yugoslavia.
I suspect that you ment Slovakia. This is a common error.
Regards, Stan.
On 1 Jun 1998, P. A. Harrington wrote:
# ....
# Consider that the Czech Republic has disassociated itself with
# Slovenia. It would be natural to assume that CZ would drop the
# "slovenska" portion of its name. They are the same company,
# reorganized.
#
# ..P
# Please remove the ".ns." in my email address. My hope is that
# it cuts down on the spam in my reader.
#
#
#
P. A. Harrington
kyrie...@aol.com (KYRIEELLIS) wrote:
# Interesting! The box mine came in had no mention of Brno. I really wonder
#what, if anything, is going on at Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka. I was not able to
#find them in a directory of Czech businesses and have heard nothing about them
#for several years.
The box that this rifle came in was not rectangular, but rather a
form-fitting pentagonal shape. It was green on white, xcept for the
prominent BRNO in red. Inside was a ZKM 452. The interesting thing
about it was that it had a threaded muzzle.
#
# I'm not sure just what you mean.. Are you saying Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka
#and Ceska Zbrojovka are the same company or that "CZ" is the trademark of
#Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka? If so, I can say neither of these is true :-)
I'm sorry. I'm speaking from second hand information. The exchange
student from Prague that lived with friends of mine claimed her uncle
worked for CZ in Uhersky Brod. According to her, Ceskoslovenska
Zbrojovka was the state-owned arms factory under the communist regime.
After the fall of communism, most industries were privatized. The
current CZ, Ceska Zbrojovka, was the natural outgrowth of that
privatization. I just assumed that she knew what she was talking
about, especially since it made sense.
As a child, I shot a Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka 177 cal spring piston
air rifle that has the CZ logo in a circle (same as the one on the
motorcycles) on the cylinder along with Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka over
it and Brno underneath. It's broken now (I wore it out after 12K+
rounds). If I could get parts, I would restore it. The seals were
made of oiled leather. It was the envy of the neighborhood due to its
accuracy and power.
I never owned a CZ motorcycle. I would have liked to. There is a CZ
motorcycle web page, though.
..P
Please remove the ".ns." in my email address. My hope is that
Bert Hyman
In article <6kv9fm$2...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, harr...@mind.ns.spring.com (P. A. Harrington) wrote:
#
#Actually <wider smile> The Brno "trademark" is also still in use by
#Ceska Zbrojovka. I happened to be at a gun show just this weekend and
#examined a brand new CZ 22 RF. "BRNO" was prominently printed on its
#box.
I bought a new CZ-452 ZKM via CZ-USA last October (no Brno on it or the box
anywhere) and had a short chat with ->somebody<- there who said that when the
country broke up, the Czechoslovakian government arms industry was sold off
piecemeal and the piece they got is called Ceska Zbrojovka, in Uhersky Brod.
Somebody else bought the piece that has the rights to use the Brno
appellation. Of course, he could have been blowing smoke :-).
--
The opinions expressed here are the opinions of the author and do not
represent the opinions of those who hold other opinions.
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN be...@yuck.net
P. A. Harrington
Stanislav Vlcek <vlc...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
#
#A small correction. Czech Republic has never disassociated itself from
#Slovenia since it never has been part of or asossociated with
#Czechoslovakia.
#
#Slovenia is situated or was a part of what once was Yugoslavia.
#I suspect that you ment Slovakia. This is a common error.
#
#Regards, Stan.
#
#On 1 Jun 1998, P. A. Harrington wrote:
#
## ....
Mea Culpa. I did mean Slovakia.
spos...@hotmail.com
#
# #In article <6kn8in$c...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, harr...@mind.ns.spring.com (P.=
# # A.
# #Harrington) writes:
# #
# ##Actually, there used to be a rifle from Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ),
# ##of a town, not an arms manufacturer).=20
# # <snip>
# #
# # Actually <smile>, the Brno marked rifles were made by Ceskoslovenska
# #sky
# #Brod). The Models ZKM, ZKK, and ZKB were manufactured by Cesk=E1 Zbrojovk=
# #a.
# ## #if
# #Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka still exists.
# #
# #Kyrie
# #
#
# Actually <wider smile> The Brno "trademark" is also still in use by
# Ceska Zbrojovka. I happened to be at a gun show just this weekend and
# examined a brand new CZ 22 RF. "BRNO" was prominently printed on its
# box.
#
# Consider that the Czech Republic has disassociated itself with
# Slovenia. It would be natural to assume that CZ would drop the
# "slovenska" portion of its name. They are the same company,
# reorganized.
#
never associated. Do you even know where Slovenia is? It's in the Alps.
You're thinking about the Slovak Republik (aka Slovakia).
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
George Samaras
You've got it backwards: Brno made the ZKK-602. The BBK-02 was a
Korean-manufactured copy of a Mauser magnum action imported by a fellow named
Bauska. I'll look around for more info.
SMicha6551 wrote:
# There used to be a rifle by BRNO, called the BBK-602, as well as a Korean copy
# called the ZKK. They were large magnum actions. Dose anyone know of one for
# sale, rifle or action only. Thanks!
KYRIEELLIS
A bit of the history of Ceska Zbrojovka, Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka, and Ceska
Zavody Motocyklove for anyone interested :-)
Ceska Zbrojovka
The company we know today as Ceska Zbrojovka was founded in 1919 in Pilsin,
as the Jihoceska Zbrojovka (South Bohemian Arms Factory). It moved in 1921 to a
new factory in Strakonice, and in 1922 it merged with the Hubertus Factory and
changed its name to Ceska Zbrojovka (Bohemian Arms Factory). Its trademark is
"CZ", where the "Z" is inside the loop of the "C" and the "C" is in a circle.
Ceska Zbrojovka was the sole supplier of handguns to the Czech military from
1926 to 1954. Among the military pistols produced by Ceska Zbrojovka are the
Vz-24, V-27, Vz-36/45, Vz-38, Vz-50 & Vz-70, and the Vz-52. (Note: "Vz" is the
abbreviation for "Vzor", or "Model").
Ceska Zbrojovka was preparing to move to Uhersky Brod in 1939 when Germany
invaded Czechoslovakia and seized the factory. During WWII, Ceska Zbrojovka
remained at in Strakonice and continued to make pistols for the Third Reich.
Germany used a number of Czech Vz-24's, Vz-27's (as the "Pistole Modell 27")
and Vz-38's (as the model "P.39(t)"). Pistols made during the Occupation can be
found marked "Bohmische Waffenfabrik A. G. Prag". Ceska Zbrojovka also produced
parts for the Walther P.38, and such parts will have the code "fnh" and the
Waffenamt "WaA 76". Ceska Zbrojovka was considered for production of the P.38
during WWII, but whether they actually produced any complete pistols is a
matter of dispute. This subject is clouded by the post-war (1946) production of
some P.38's by Ceska Zbrojovka using parts and salvaged pistols.
In 1955 Ceska Zbrojovka finally moved to Uhersky Brod and the Strakonice
factory was turned over to the Ceska Zavody Motocyklove to produce motorcycles.
Today, Ceska Zbrojovka is still in operation and produces pistols such as the
Vz-75, Vz-82, and Vz83 and sub-machineguns like the Vz-61 (Scorpion) and the
Vz-83. It now also appears to produce sporting rifles, and has a net site at
http://www.czub.cz
Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka
Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka was founded in 1918 in the city of Brno. Its
trademark was the letter "Z", inside a rifled bore. This trademark originally
belonged to the Praga Zbrojovka whose assets were purchased by Ceskoslovenska
Zbrojovka in 1926. As Ceska Zbrojovka had the "lock" on Czech military pistol
contracts, Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka was the supplier of long arms to the Czech
military. Probably the most well known rifle produced by Ceskoslovenska
Zbrojovka is the Vz-24. Following the Great War, Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka
competed successfully against all comers and Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka rifles
were purchased by a number of other countries.
Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka was also occupied during WWII, and produced rifles
for the Third Reich under the manufacturer's code "dot". One little known fact
is the British BREN light machinegun is a Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka design, and
was produced by the Royal Arms factory in England under license from
Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka.
Following the Second World War, Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka produced few arms -
it began the manufacture of information and communications devices. In 1989, it
was restructured and reorganized. The change reached a head in 1995 when it
emerged as Zbrojovka Brno (a joint stock company) and resumed larger scale
production of sporting rifles and shotguns. Which brings us to the second
trademark of the reformed Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka - "ZB".
That's the story as far as I know it. Ceska Zbrojovka is alive and well, has
an internet site, and is trying to open an office here in the States. I've
heard nothing about or from Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka (or Zbrojovka Brno) for
some time and do not know their status at present. Hope I have not bored anyone
to tears...
Kyrie
Bert Hyman
#form-fitting pentagonal shape. It was green on white, xcept for the
#prominent BRNO in red. Inside was a ZKM 452. The interesting thing
#about it was that it had a threaded muzzle.
Gee, I wonder if there's such a thing as a "gray market" imported firearm,
just like with cameras? CZ-USA said they only import the CZ 452 ZKM Lux. The
one you've got isn't supposed to be imported by them, but is mentioned on CZ's
Web site (http://www.czub.cz/Rimfirer.htm) It says:
"On special order these rifles are supplied with a magazine holding 10
cartridges or as the case may be, with a single cartridge adapter and with the
barrel outfitted with a muzzle thread to accept the Still, or Parker-Hale
sound moderators."
There's probably not much market in the US for .22 rifles equipped for
suppressors :-).
Jonathan M. Spencer
In article <6l3lkm$e...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, P. A. Harrington
<harr...@mind.ns.spring.com> writes
#The box that this rifle came in was not rectangular, but rather a
#form-fitting pentagonal shape. It was green on white, xcept for the
#prominent BRNO in red. Inside was a ZKM 452. The interesting thing
#about it was that it had a threaded muzzle.
That may be either a refurbished gun, or a new gun, intended for the UK
market. (I can dig out the details of how to tell the difference.) We
expect our sporting .22s to be threaded ready for a sound moderator. So
your gun was probably intended for us. :-)
## I'm not sure just what you mean.. Are you saying Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka
##and Ceska Zbrojovka are the same company or that "CZ" is the trademark of
##Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka? If so, I can say neither of these is true :-)
[snip]
My Brno was made during the communist era and is marked "Made in
Czechoslovakia" and BRNO Arms Mod. 2-E". The new CZs are the same gun,
but marked "Made in the Czech Republic". The UK importer for Brno has
always been Edgar Brothers in Macclesfield. Their current advert shows
a rifle the same as mine and proclaims "CZ Ceska Zbrojovka" and is says,
"Popularly known as the Brno bolt action, the CZ 452 ....".
--Jonathan
Jonathan Spencer -- forensic firearms examiner
Keith Borer Consultants
Mountjoy Research Centre, Durham, England, DH1 3UR
tel: +44 191 386 6107 fax: +44 191 383 0686
P. A. Harrington
spos...@hotmail.com wrote:
#What the hell are you talking about? Slovenia and the Czech Republic were
#never associated. Do you even know where Slovenia is? It's in the Alps.
#You're thinking about the Slovak Republik (aka Slovakia).
#
This was already addressed in a previous post in this thread. It was
a slip on my part.
Jonathan M. Spencer
In article <6l7vpq$p...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, KYRIEELLIS
<kyrie...@aol.com> writes
#A bit of the history of Ceska Zbrojovka, Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka, and Ceska
#Zavody Motocyklove for anyone interested :-)
and interesting reading it makes, too.
# Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka was also occupied during WWII, and produced rifles
#for the Third Reich under the manufacturer's code "dot". One little known fact
#is the British BREN light machinegun is a Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka design, and
#was produced by the Royal Arms factory in England under license from
#Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka.
Whether it is 'little known' or 'well known' depends upon whom you ask.
:-) It's history was well known amongst the British armed forces who
use it, and the .308 variant. The name BREN was derived from the first
two names of the towns where it was designed and made: BR from Brno and
EN from Enfield Lock.
#Hope I have not bored anyone
#to tears...
On the contrary, thank you for making the effort.
hashemi....@gmail.com
# There used to be a rifle by BRNO, called the BBK-602, as well as a Korean copy
# called the ZKK. They were large magnum actions. Dose anyone know of one for
# sale, rifle or action only. Thanks!
# Steven Michaels
# NRA Life Member
in Iran in the hands of private individuals. Some converted and some in the
original military configuration and all have the marking Z and BRNO. These rifles
were the standard Army issue of Iranian Army until the late 50s and all are in the
original 7.92 caliber Mauser. some were actually made here. For some reason when
Iranians say Brno they mean both the rifle and also the caliber 7.92. So far as
I know even in the Czech republic guns with the Z marking are called Brno. Nobody
cares where they were produced. That is true even with the cz guns. One final thought.
Any cars bearing the the brand RR are called Rolls Royce and no one cares if they
are not produced in the original factory by Germans.
lotter...@gmail.com
# smich...@aol.com (SMicha6551) wrote:
#
# #There used to be a rifle by BRNO, called the BBK-602, as well as a Korean copy
# #called the ZKK. They were large magnum actions. Dose anyone know of one for
# #sale, rifle or action only. Thanks!
# #
# #Steven Michaels
# #NRA Life Member
# #
# Actually, there used to be a rifle from Ceska Zbrojovka (CZ),
# headquartered in Brno, Czech Republic called the ZKK (Brno is the name
# of a town, not an arms manufacturer). The ZKK came in 3 models, the
# 600, 601, and 602. All were bolt actions in European style hunting
# configuration (schnabel forends and droopy, wide buttstocks). The
# action is an updated Mauser action with a non-rotating claw extractor.
# It has built in scope mounts, a la Ruger, except that they accept
# regular Weaver style rings. Lock time is nothing spectacular, but
# their triggers were delightful!
#
# The ZKK600 was a medium length action which would accept cartridges up
# to 3.15 inches OAL, and case head of 0.472. Generally, the box mag
# would hold 5 cartridges, except for the 10.75x68, which limited
# capacity to 4. Other cartridges the 600 was chambered in were 30-06,
# 7x57, 9.3x62, 8x57, 8x64, and 270 Win.
#
# The ZKK601 was the short action version. It would take cartridges up
# to 2.76 inches long and case heads up to 0.472 inches. Chamberings
# included 222 Rem Mag, 222 Rem, 243 Win, and 308 Win. The mag would
# hold 6 each of the 222s and 5 of the 243 & 308.
#
# The ZKK602 was the magnum length action. It will take cartridges up
# to 3.75 inches with a head diameter of 0.552 inches or less. Its big
# enough to hold 5 of the traditional "dangerous game" magnum
# cartridges, which include 375 H&H Mag, 358 Norma Mag, and 458 Win Mag.
# The ZKK602 comes with a three leaf express sight.
#
# ZKKs are classy guns. They were made of Czeck Poldi steel. The one
# complaint I have (other than stock design which is easily remedied) is
# that they have the stock screwed to the barrel about 6 inches forward
# of the recoil lug. I feel like this limits the accuracy potential.
#
# The BBKs were the Korean copies. to the best of my knowledge BBKs
# were only actions and were never assembled as complete rifles.
# I could be wrong about that.
do you know where i can find info on .270 zkk lux. need rifle twist