700 BDL vs. 40XB actions: Worth the price?
Quando6
roughly $500 price difference between these 2 heavy barelled rifles; is the
40XB worth that much more?? Will it be inherently more accurate? Thanks !!
quando(Mike)
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Dennis L. Mickey
> ...
I just received my fifth 40XB Rangemaster yesterday. Is it worth the
extra money? Definitely! I have one in 6mm BR Remington and was able
to shoot five shots into one hole at 100 yards! My new one is in .22 BR
Remington. I expect that it will do the same.
Dennis Mickey at Gettysburg, PA
Martin
I have a 30-06 40x and and several rem 700's with the varmit bbl. The only issue I
have with the rem bbls is that the 30 cal are 1:12 twist and the 22-250 is 1:14
Both are a little slow for the heaver bullets. My 40x is 1:10 which I find to be
just right for anything up to 220 grain bullets.
There is some difference in the actions, but any good gunsmith can duplicate the
difference for much less than $800. the BBL twist issue still remains a problem
but if you are shooting light bullets (less than 60 grains in 22 cal) 1-14 is just
fine.
Mart
Fasteddie3
<<I just received my fifth 40XB Rangemaster yesterday. Is it worth the
extra money? Definitely! I have one in 6mm BR Remington and was able
to shoot five shots into one hole at 100 yards! >>
...And I have a Savage 10FP in .308 Winchester that routinely shoots _ten_
bullets into one hole at 100 yards. It cost me $389, as opposed to the $1500+ I
see as the list on your 40XB. "Worth the extra money?" I really think I'd
rather have several different caliber Savages for that kind of money...
IMHO, Ed
Vince Yakamavich, Raleigh NC
#Dennis wrote:
#
#<<I just received my fifth 40XB Rangemaster yesterday. Is it worth the
#extra money? Definitely! I have one in 6mm BR Remington and was able
#to shoot five shots into one hole at 100 yards! >>
#
#...And I have a Savage 10FP in .308 Winchester that routinely shoots _ten_
#bullets into one hole at 100 yards. It cost me $389, as opposed to the $1500+ I
#see as the list on your 40XB. "Worth the extra money?" I really think I'd
#rather have several different caliber Savages for that kind of money...
#
#IMHO, Ed
#
Some people are just happy driving Yugo's. I guess you can pretend
it's a Porsche.
TheBattman
of the line scopes, and have $ left over for gun cases and lots of
ammo!!!!!!!(g)
TheBattman
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In article <75pk09$s...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, faste...@aol.com (Fasteddie3)
wrote:
#"Worth the extra money?" I really think I'd
#rather have several different caliber Savages for that kind of money...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
gregory garland
40X in 22-250, gets pretty good groups with it. High dollar Leupold scope.
Nice rifle. He and another friend were shooting one day. The other guy has
a Savage in 22-250 with an elcheapo scope. The Savage outshot the 40X.
Head to head comparison?
You bet!
Savage makes a fine rifle, but for that sort of gritty trigger.
I like my 40X cross the course rifle, but I'm buying a Savage for my "fun
gun".
Just another opinion....
Regards,
Gregory
Colorado Springs, CO
email: stump...@email.msn.com
Vince Yakamavich, Raleigh NC wrote in message
<75ruud$4...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
> ...
$1500+ I
Louis Boyd
#
#
# <<I just received my fifth 40XB Rangemaster yesterday. Is it worth the
# to shoot five shots into one hole at 100 yards! >>
#
# ...And I have a Savage 10FP in .308 Winchester that routinely shoots _ten_
# bullets into one hole at 100 yards. It cost me $389, as opposed to the $1500+ I
# see as the list on your 40XB. "Worth the extra money?" I really think I'd
# rather have several different caliber Savages for that kind of money...
The real question is "how big is the one hole?"
Ten shots with a .308 can leave a single (albiet skinney) hole 3 inches
across!
Lou Boyd
FCSA-NRA-JPFO
LAMDJH
.308 that will shoot 10 shts on demand into one hole it is worth well over a
thousand dollars. You would be the master of hunter bench rest.
Del
Mark Gibson
##
##<<I just received my fifth 40XB Rangemaster yesterday. Is it worth the
##extra money? Definitely! I have one in 6mm BR Remington and was able
##to shoot five shots into one hole at 100 yards! >>
##
##...And I have a Savage 10FP in .308 Winchester that routinely shoots _ten_
##bullets into one hole at 100 yards. It cost me $389, as opposed to the $1500+ I
##see as the list on your 40XB. "Worth the extra money?" I really think I'd
##rather have several different caliber Savages for that kind of money...
##
##IMHO, Ed
##
#
#Some people are just happy driving Yugo's. I guess you can pretend
#it's a Porsche.
It sounds like his $389 Savage (Yugo) beats the hell out of your
expensive Porsche-of-a-rifle. Porsche has been in financial trouble
in recent years, because Japanese sports cars tend to deliver better
performance for the dollar than Porsches do. Go figure.
Marty Lierly
#
# Welll,.... on the subject of Savage v. Remington. I have a friend with a
# 40X in 22-250, gets pretty good groups with it. High dollar Leupold scope.
# Nice rifle. He and another friend were shooting one day. The other guy has
# a Savage in 22-250 with an elcheapo scope. The Savage outshot the 40X.
#
# Head to head comparison?
#
# You bet!
#
# Savage makes a fine rifle, but for that sort of gritty trigger.
#
# I like my 40X cross the course rifle, but I'm buying a Savage for my "fun
# gun".
#
# Just another opinion....
#
Do you mean to sit there and tell me that you don't care what name is
on the rifle as long as it shoots great? How controversial, look out
for the loons who can't read and comprehend.
Merry Christmas, Marty.
AdrianRo
#
#...And I have a Savage 10FP in .308 Winchester that routinely shoots _ten_
#bullets into one hole at 100 yards. It cost me $389, as opposed to the $1500+
#I
#see as the list on your 40XB. "Worth the extra money?" I really think I'd
#rather have several different caliber Savages for that kind of money...
#
#IMHO, Ed
#
Some people just want some of the finer things in life. If it's not for you,
that's ok too.
Doug Owen
#
# I just received my fifth 40XB Rangemaster yesterday. Is it worth the
# extra money? Definitely! I have one in 6mm BR Remington and was able
# Remington. I expect that it will do the same.
#
I've heard this many times, and seen not to few *very impressive* guns
built with them.
A question, if you will. I also am told the bedding gives out much
faster (and must be redone) on the round Rem receivers than the
Winchester. Is this your experience? How many rounds do you get before
this sets in?
BTW, I'd watch out for the 'the Savage 110 can outshoot anything else'
guys out there, they're after me even now....
Doug Owen
gmcm...@pop.phnx.uswest.net
run a hundred miles an hour and go from point a to point b. but there isn't a hell
of a lot of pride of ownership. a Savage will punch little holes but there isn't a
lot of pride of ownership in an action made out of a piece of tubing with a
trigger that all that can be said for it is it makes the gun go off. It defiantly
is a throw away gun that when it quits shooting just throw it away and buy a new
one. Its cheaper than fixing it.If your one of those shooting one and are happy
you wouldn't understand some one who would lay out 4 grand for a custom rifle on a
action that sets him back $1000.I fall somewhere in between. I want it to shoot
like a world class bench rest rifle, Look like a million and be affordable Back
when I started shooting Bench rest competition back in the 50s there was no care
taken to make a gun look nice. All it had to do was shoot. You would never see a
stock with any finish on it or an action blued. Each shooter did his own work and
it showed that he didn't waste time on looks. The first match my brother and I
went to we set out our rifles and ever one crowded around to look at what the new
comers had brought to shoot.I heard one fellow comment to his buddy. They'll be
easy meat because they rifles are to pretty to shoot. After the shoot was over and
we picked up thirty one of thirty three first place trophies and 2 second place
cups. We laughed and told them if they would let us know when they were going to
have another shoot we easy meats would like to join them again. I think that was
the start of the cleaning up the bench rest rifle and if you go to a match now you
never see a club on the bench.I am real proud of Savage for bringing out an
affordable rifle that shoots well. It will make the other manufacturers work a
little harder to clean up their act.
Gale Mc.
> ...
Theron D. King
#
# A question, if you will. I also am told the bedding gives out much
# faster (and must be redone) on the round Rem receivers than the
# Winchester. Is this your experience? How many rounds do you get before
# this sets in?
Doug,
This is an "OLD WIVES TALE", period. I have several Remington 700 match
rifles, both wood stocked and fiberglass, and none of them have needed
to be re-bedded after as much as 6000 rounds or so. The one wood stocked
rifle I have has at least 6,000 or more rounds through it, (two barrels)
and has not been re-bedded since it was originally done in 1989.
FWIW, the last time this tale was floating around rec.guns, I contacted
Mitchell Maxberry to ask him about his rifles, which are all Remington
700s. He has not re-bedded any of them for several years, and won
several national titles with them during that time.
You can believe what you want, but Remington 700 actions do not have to
be re-bedded any more often than any other action.
Threon King
Fasteddie3
<<The real question is "how big is the one hole?"
Ten shots with a .308 can leave a single (albiet skinney) hole 3 inches
across!
Lou Boyd
FCSA-NRA-JPFO>>
Thank you , Lou! I was wondering how long it would take somebody to stop
knee-jerking their programmed response and actually _think_ about what was
being said here. A 'one-hole' group is the most meaningless measure of accuracy
possible, since it measures only edge-to-edge holes and the amount of paper
they tear out of the target. The 'one hole' groups the 40XB shooter brags about
could be 1 1/4 inches across for five shots, and still rightly be called a 'one
hole' group. In fact, the groups from from the Savage are nice and round, and
average an outside diameter of around 0.8 inches, or 0.5 MOA center-to-center.
On the subject of 'Yugos vs. Porsches', I'm amazed that anyone could consider
the M-700 Remington with its cast and stamped parts and mediocre fit and
polishing a 'Porsche'? A pre-war Mauser Oberndorf, Holland & Holland or Rigby
rifle is a 'Porsche' grade gun: the Remington is just a good quality
_mass-production_ rifle, no more, no less. The fact that it costs more simply
means that Remington's Marketing department has determined that buyers will pay
more for the name. If the Remington buffs want to challenge this, I suggest
they spend some serious time really examining the top-end sporting rifles made
before WW2 by Winchester, the English makers, and the best Continental makers.
The quality of machining, fit and finish, and attention to detail are so far
beyond _anything_ you can buy today off the shelf that there is no comparison.
The reason for the existence of very expensive custom gun makers who are
manufacturing rifles from the action up is because you can't buy pre-war
quality from a factory anymore. Those who have the resources to afford a $3,000
to $6,000 rifle are keeping alive a tradition of quality that has been lost in
the mass-production trade. A factory gun today is not a work of art, but a
serviceable tool, and in my opinion if you can get that tool for less and keep
the functionality, so be it.
IMHO
Ed Arnold
fl...@alaska.net
# I also am told the bedding gives out much faster (and must be redone)
#on the round Rem receivers than the Winchester....
This is fact, at least on the Remingtons which fire heavy bullets (
over 150 grains ). The reason is torque, which twists the action in
the bedding - the result is both reduced accuracy, and very small but
cumulative damage to the bedding. The flat-bottomed WInchester
actions resist this effect much better, and are usually preferred by
top long range shooters. That, or they sleeve their Remington actions
with a flat bottomed sleeve, for the same effect.
#BTW, I'd watch out for the 'the Savage 110 can outshoot anything else'
#guys out there, they're after me even now....
I like the Savage rifles I've owned, but I would not say that they are
catagorically more accurate than Remingtons. On the whole,
Remingtons have been more accurate in my experience.
Jay T
Lee
<tdk...@horizon.hit.net> wrote:
{snippage}
#
#FWIW, the last time this tale was floating around rec.guns, I contacted
#Mitchell Maxberry to ask him about his rifles, which are all Remington
#700s. He has not re-bedded any of them for several years, and won
#several national titles with them during that time.
#
#You can believe what you want, but Remington 700 actions do not have to
#be re-bedded any more often than any other action.
#
#Threon King
#
Theron,
I am far from a bolt gun expert as I only belly-shoot with them and
use a gas gun across-the-course. But if there is anything I have
learned over the last seven years is that one should walk up and down
the *actual* firing line of a match,(that shoots out to 600), and just
look at the equipment and talk to the shooters. In doing just that I
have noticed that 700's outnumber the 70's 3 or 4 to 1. As you have
demonstrated the shooters that use these guns must know something,
As is always the case other people's mileage may vary.
Lee
Marty Lierly
#
[snip]
# A question, if you will. I also am told the bedding gives out much
# faster (and must be redone) on the round Rem receivers than the
# Winchester. Is this your experience? How many rounds do you get before
# this sets in?
# BTW, I'd watch out for the 'the Savage 110 can outshoot anything else'
# guys out there, they're after me even now....
#
Dougie, the statement is about an out-of-the-box, production rifle.
Marty.
Ken Marsh
Vince Yakamavich, Raleigh NC <yaka...@pagesz.net> wrote:
#Some people are just happy driving Yugo's. I guess you can pretend
#it's a Porsche.
If you are arguing from this perspective, why do you shoot a
mass-produced gun with a receiver made from seamless steel tubing
instead of, say, an Anshutz, or a Grunig & Elmiger? Or for sport, a
Lazzeroni? These are the "Porsches" of rifles. Your Remington is in the
same price-class as the Savage: sub-$1000, mass produced.
When the 700 was introduced, it was called by O'Conner a "production
job" and "not a gun nut's rifle"!
Your "Yugo" analogy is also quite imprecise. Yugo is out of business,
unreliable, noisy, and based on an inferior design (a Fiat copy,
obsolete even by Fiat standards). Savage rifles are sturdy, dependable
and accurate, and the Savage company is doing quite well, making inroads
into Remington business. They seem to have avoided Remington's penchant
for losing liability suits concerning the triggers, as well.
If you want to use a car analogy, the Savage is a Chevy and the Remington
is a Buick, Olds or Pontiac. Then again, the Savage Classic and Safari
Express rifles might be B.O.P's as well...
By the way, the triggers ARE adjustable, just like the stiff Remington
factory triggers (a fact you can't seem to grasp). The only non-adjustable
bolt triggers on the market that I know of are the Rugers. For accuracy
beyond hunting (less than 3 pounds), everyone replaces the trigger anyway!
Ken.
--
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Ken Marsh
#Some people just want some of the finer things in life. If it's not for you,
#that's ok too.
I sold a Remington (with its piss-poor accuracy, kink in the rifling and
massive scope mount shims) in order to better afford one of the finer
things in life... a true custom rifle.
If a Remington (even a 40X), is "one of the finer things in life" then
you have set your sights fairly low. It is just a mass-produced rifle
made within certain fairly broad tolerances. If a Savage shoots better,
or just as good, for less, buy that. If you want a real treat, have
a rifle custom made.
Ken.
PS I also HATE the skip-line checkering and psuedo-weatherby stock
styling...
MrBowling
bad lemon of a rifle. I have not been overly ecstatic about a rifle or 2 I
have gotten but to say that a 40X is nothing more than a production gunis
absurd.
My 40X 220 Swift will shoot nearly as well as some bench rifles. The first 5
shot group out of the gun was a .215" with ammo not even loaded to the gun !!!
Was loaded to SAAMI specs ala the Sierra manual for accuracy load with a 52 gr
Bullet.. It will also consistently group in the .25" range with Nosler's and
run of the mill R-P brass.
I also own a 243 Ackley Improved 700 that still sports the factory barrel.
This rifle will shoot sub-3/4 moa all day long. It still even wears the wood
stock !!!!!
Lets consider my Sportsman 78 in 223....a sporter weight gun with a reputation
for excellent accuracy....mine shoots sub moa with 50 gr Speer TNT's....
I can continue down the list but it is fruitless to do so. The 700's and 40X's
are excellent guns...not on par with the Stolles etc but are fantastic varmint
and big game rifles.
Remington has had some recent problems but they are still tops on my list when
I need an accurate rifle. If they do not shoot right out of the box, it does
not take much to dial them in.
Case closed......
Doug
KMiddle532
##Some people yada,yada,yada,.........
# trigger anyway!
Very nicely said, this group could use a WHOLE LOT more posts of this nature!
KM
If you ain't gonna cook, stay away from the stove!
Ken Marsh
In article <76tdc3$e...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, MrBowling <mrbo...@aol.com> wrote:
#Ken I hate to tell you but your entireidea of Remingtons must be based on one
#bad lemon of a rifle. I have not been overly ecstatic about a rifle or 2 I
#have gotten but to say that a 40X is nothing more than a production gunis
#absurd.
(excellent experiences noted and snipped)
You have a point, I know that there are a lot of accurate Remingtons out
there.
I also know that I've shimmed the scope mounts on a great number of
700's for friends and at hunter sight-in, in addition to mine. I also
know that the extractor ripped out on a mildly stiff load (popped right
out with the cleaning rod, not the kind of thing I like to happen, but
it happens sometimes. It was a listed load.)
I also know a custom-shop Remington 40X in 6mm BR came though my
gunsmith's shop, there was nothing they could do with it short of a new
barrel, there was so much clearance between the bolt and the breech that
empties came out with what looked like a belt! They said, 'send it
back'. Who knows what they were smoking when they let that one out of
the shop. I know all companies make mistakes, but on a 40X, for
goodness sakes, its supposed to be their best...
I'm not saying all Remingtons are crap. I see quite a few at the range that
do fine. What I'm saying is, mindless loyalty to Remington (or Savage for
that matter) is pointless, it's not like they are incapable of making
mistakes.
And, they seem to be making quite a few lately, and I just happen to
have been at the butt end of more than one of their mistakes. Once
burned, twice shy. Their stock design also fits me most amazingly
poorly. I will put my money elsewhere for quite a while, which is my
right.
Ken.
--
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