Mosin-Nagant: Body armor POWERLESS against highpower rifles?
Kansas Dude
Today I shot my mosin-nagant rifle at a half-inch thick steel
plate, from a hundred yards distance. I shot regular FMJ bullets.
To my huge surprise, the bullet made a hole in the plate and,
possibly, went on farther. (although the jacket got stuck in the
plate) The steel was no good though.
It got me thinking, is there any possibility of any body armor
protecting its users from highpower rifles like 7.62x54R Mosin
Nagant? Remember, those were not even armor piercing bullets,
just regular lead core/copper jacket military surplus bullets.
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Kansas Dude wrote:
#
# Today I shot my mosin-nagant rifle at a half-inch thick steel
# plate, from a hundred yards distance. I shot regular FMJ bullets.
#
# To my huge surprise, the bullet made a hole in the plate and,
# possibly, went on farther. (although the jacket got stuck in the
# plate) The steel was no good though.
#
# It got me thinking, is there any possibility of any body armor
# protecting its users from highpower rifles like 7.62x54R Mosin
# Nagant? Remember, those were not even armor piercing bullets,
# just regular lead core/copper jacket military surplus bullets.
Yes, but those have ceramic or other types of hard plate in them and are
very heavy. They certainly are not the type worn by regular police
officers, hence the fallacy of the civilian ammo ban proposals based on
their ability to penetrate police body armor: virtually all rifle ammo
would be banned under such a criterion.
--
Eric Ching
Defensive Pistolcraft, Mountain View, CA
Web Site: http://www.netcom.com/~chingesh/
“The Pen is Mightier Than the Sword . . . Except in a Swordfight.”
=================================================================
“A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.”
-- Sigmund Freud, A General Introduction to Psychoanalysis
=================================================================
Rob Hillier
Level III plates are designed to stop rifle round and level IV is
supposed to stop AP rounds. I guess you'll have to jump up to .50bmg to
defeat those.
Rob Hillier
Kansas Dude wrote:
# Today I shot my mosin-nagant rifle at a half-inch thick steel
# plate, from a hundred yards distance. I shot regular FMJ bullets.
#
# To my huge surprise, the bullet made a hole in the plate and,
# possibly, went on farther. (although the jacket got stuck in the
# plate) The steel was no good though.
#
# It got me thinking, is there any possibility of any body armor
# protecting its users from highpower rifles like 7.62x54R Mosin
# Nagant? Remember, those were not even armor piercing bullets,
# just regular lead core/copper jacket military surplus bullets.
#
# ______________________________________________________
# Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
--
Silent enim leges inter arma.
Laws are dumb in the midst of arms.
-Cicero
Tom Woolman
Yeah there are levels of body armor (the very high end) with what are called
"trauma plates" where the hi-tech ceramic and/or alloyed steel sits on top
of/between layers of kevlar. Keep in mind also that the
steel you used was most likely quite mild compared to milspec armor plate.
But either way you slice it a hi-power rifle (like 7.62x54 or .30-06 or 7.62
NATO) is quite an impressive round, even in lead core FMJ.
I have a video of a WWII USGI training film of a Garand loaded with .30-06
AP firing through over 14" of solid concrete and shooting through a German
helmet on the other side of the wall. I'm always impressed by these powerful
old cartridges.
Kansas Dude wrote in message <6n6l5r$5...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
> ...
Tod Glenn
In article <6n6l5r$5...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, "Kansas Dude"
<kansa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
#Today I shot my mosin-nagant rifle at a half-inch thick steel
#plate, from a hundred yards distance. I shot regular FMJ bullets.
#
#To my huge surprise, the bullet made a hole in the plate and,
#possibly, went on farther. (although the jacket got stuck in the
#plate) The steel was no good though.
#
#It got me thinking, is there any possibility of any body armor
#protecting its users from highpower rifles like 7.62x54R Mosin
#Nagant? Remember, those were not even armor piercing bullets,
#just regular lead core/copper jacket military surplus bullets.
#
That will depend on the body armor and load. The typical concealment vest
offers protection only against common handgun loads. However, some armor
such a Second Chance's hardcorps is rated to stop up to 7.62
armor-piercing ammunition (at a weight of around 25 lbs).
--
Tod Glenn
Systems Administrator
Qualcomm, Inc.
tgl...@qualcomm.com
Steve Wood
No.
Most "body armour" will not stop a high powered rifle round. They are
designed to stop high powered handgun rounds; and they'll do that quite
well although...depending on they type, shock/trauma plate, etc., you're
looking at a serious bruising at the least!
I've fired at my nephew's "old" high threat (can't remember what class
it is but it was for high risk LE) with my: 1) SKS, 2) AK, 3) Garand
All three made quite pretty little holes.
Steve
Arizona
Rosco Benson
Kansas Dude <kansa...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<6n6l5r$5...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
# It got me thinking, is there any possibility of any body armor
# protecting its users from highpower rifles like 7.62x54R Mosin
# Nagant? Remember, those were not even armor piercing bullets,
# just regular lead core/copper jacket military surplus bullets.
Body armor can be made proof against most any small arm
round. The problem is that, on the extreme end of the spectrum,
on ends up with armor that few people can stagger around wearing
all day long. Generally, armor that is meant to stop rifle rounds
has metallic or ceramic plates in addition to the kevlar or spectra
fabric. The trick with body armor has always been a delicate
balancing act between comfort and having enough penetration
protection to protect the user from the most LIKELY threats. There
is no perfect answer. It does little good to pick a vest that will
withstand your 7.62 round and keep it in the car trunk. It also
does little good to wear a light and flexible model which will only
stop feeble pistol rounds if the opposition is routinely armed with
AK's. There is also the issue of whether to select concealable body
armor or a "flak vest" style. If your opposition observes your body
armor, they are quite likely to just shoot you in an unarmored
portion of your anatomy. If there were a single, perfect solution,
there would only be one model offered for sale. There are a BUNCH
of makers and models out there.
Rosco Benson
my opinions....not my employer's
Ruler of the Seas
Hi,
There is a British company which offered body armour (they still might
I haven't heard anything on them) which could stop rounds like AP 3006
and 7.62 NATo at a range of about 5m (though even with the truma
protection I don't think that you would be unscathed by that). THere
was also an incident of a soldier in SOmalia being shot with an rpg7
rocket. It didn't explode but hit him and he survived. On the other had
the shooting book writen by AA Yuryev in the 60's (big blue thing
covering int. rifle, pistol and running target shooting) lists your gun
as being able to penetrate 300cm (!) of snow at 100m range. Have fuN!
#
#Today I shot my mosin-nagant rifle at a half-inch thick steel
#plate, from a hundred yards distance. I shot regular FMJ bullets.
#
#To my huge surprise, the bullet made a hole in the plate and,
#possibly, went on farther. (although the jacket got stuck in the
#plate) The steel was no good though.
#
#It got me thinking, is there any possibility of any body armor
#protecting its users from highpower rifles like 7.62x54R Mosin
#Nagant? Remember, those were not even armor piercing bullets,
#just regular lead core/copper jacket military surplus bullets.
#
#
#______________________________________________________
#Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
#
tayl...@mindspring.com
Steve Wood <fli...@aol.com> wrote:
#No.
#
#Most "body armour" will not stop a high powered rifle round. They are
#designed to stop high powered handgun rounds; and they'll do that quite
#well although...depending on they type, shock/trauma plate, etc., you're
#looking at a serious bruising at the least!
#
#I've fired at my nephew's "old" high threat (can't remember what class
#it is but it was for high risk LE) with my: 1) SKS, 2) AK, 3) Garand
#
#All three made quite pretty little holes.
#
#Steve
#Arizona
#
#
#
I trust you removed your nephew first ;-)
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Ken Taylor
NRA Endowment Member
"It should be illegal to sell firearms...
I regret selling every one I have ever sold"
"Gold and Silver are evidence of one's wealth.
Federal Reserve Notes are evidence of someone else's debt."
GMoore9876
#Most "body armour" will not stop a high powered rifle round. They are
#designed to stop high powered handgun rounds; and they'll do that quite
#well although...depending on they type,
Our own experiments with pistols, rifles against types of soft body armor has
come to one conclusion. It is difficult to wear with reasonable comfort armor
that will stop intense rounds such as European loads of 9para or 30 Tok. It
takes flak jackets to stop rifle rounds. The name of the game is to not take
hits.................. Gary
Michael Andrech
Kansas Dude,
Even with body armor able to stop ANY "main battle rifle" cartridges,
I'm not so certain I'd like to feel the results of 1500+ ft/lbs of
energy smashing my internals to bits :) I would imagine that if a shot
hit your chest, there would be a chance of the concussion causing your
heart to stop, or at least breaking a buncha ribs.
Have fun with your M-N!
Mike
J. Eric Townsend
"Tom Woolman" <twoo...@on-target.org> writes:
# I have a video of a WWII USGI training film of a Garand loaded with .30-06
# AP firing through over 14" of solid concrete and shooting through a German
# helmet on the other side of the wall. I'm always impressed by these powerful
# old cartridges.
Is that the video showing the effects of everything from .45ACP to
light field artillery and grnades? If so, that's a great video.
It's a good example of why the whole "Black Talon" scandal was such a
waste of time. Who needs unobtanium alloy bullets when I've got my
..30-06 and FMJ?
--
J. Eric Townsend jet at goonsquad.spies.com http://www.spies.com/jet
Socialist Gun Control: The Government buys guns for everyone.
Ed Litteral
Kansas Dude wrote:
# Today I shot my mosin-nagant rifle at a half-inch thick steel
# plate, from a hundred yards distance. I shot regular FMJ bullets.
#
# To my huge surprise, the bullet made a hole in the plate and,
# possibly, went on farther. (although the jacket got stuck in the
# plate) The steel was no good though.
#
# It got me thinking, is there any possibility of any body armor
# protecting its users from highpower rifles like 7.62x54R Mosin
# Nagant? Remember, those were not even armor piercing bullets,
# just regular lead core/copper jacket military surplus bullets.
#
I don't think you are going to find body armor that will take anything
over a handgun bullet. Even the smallest center-fire cartridge will
penetrate. My friend (a deputy Sheriff) has a vest that lists on the
back what it will stop and it lists nothing over 44 magnum except .45
ACP.
Years ago I bought my first high power rifle: a M31 Finnish
Moisen-Nagant. I stacked 6 2x8's up against a pine tree about 15" in
diameter and fired a Chinese surplus FMJ round at the wood at about 50'
and went to retrieve the bullet. It had passed through all 6 boards and
the tree burying itself in the hillside behind!
JAY SHELDON
Hey Ed,
Only Ceramic Plate inserts for tactical vests will defeat any A/P round
from a 308 or 30/6. No armor is designed for rifle fire and be worn under
the shirt. One officer was hit by a 45/70 and the bullet was stopped by the
vest. The only thing was, it drove the vest 6' thru his chest killing him
by blunt trauma. You pays your money and you takes your chances. Good luck.
Jay
Ed Litteral <litt...@zoomnet.net> wrote in article
<6nlaau$e...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
> ...