1927 A1 Thompson .45
Florida...@cs.com
ago, a letter from AutoOrdnance stated that only 5,000 of these
simi-automatics were made. 11.5 million fully automatics were made.
Several years ago, a guy told me he saw one like mine sell for
$18,000.00. Its serial number is 4675, so it was made near the end of
the run. This is not a replica or after market version. It is an
original. I have an interested person who wants to buy the gun, but I
am not sure what it is worth. I have two 50 round drums and 3 straight
30 round clips. What do any of you think it is worth. It is in good
firing condition and has all parts including the compensator.
Thanks..............Steve
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Rick Davis
what original (transferrable, as in 1928) Thompsons sell for on the title II
market.
Have you seen http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_ao.html
Also note that your gun's MSRP is $1164 according to
http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_t1_f.html
The only selling point you *may* have is if your gun was made before Kahr
bought Auto Ordinance, it may interest a purist. But, an M1927 was made to
be a semi-automatic and not a true SMG irrespective of who made it...so what
constitues "original" becomes subjective.
Selected AO v Kahr posts:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-112183.html
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=14951
http://www.proshooter.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=31;t=000063
<Florida...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:em61b7$o28$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#I have an original Thompson ...1927 A1. Years
# ago, a letter from AutoOrdnance stated that only 5,000 of these
# simi-automatics were made.
If so, it was probably due to demand rather that an effort to make it closed
pool-collectible.
# Several years ago, a guy told me he saw one like mine sell for
# $18,000.00.
Not like yours. It must have been a machinegun, that is, an original full
auto Thompson built & registered before May 1986.
# I have an interested person who wants to buy the gun, but I
# am not sure what it is worth.
Check gunbroker.com or auction arms regularly, regard completed auctions
(read: sold) as valid data since asking prices are frequently unrealistic,
seldom result in a sale and are not accurate indicators of fair market
value.
Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
# What do any of you think it is worth.
There is a very similar gun which has been advertised several times
recently on Auctionarms.com for $5,900 with no bids.
John Cowart
rfr...@earthlink.net
sta...@prolynx.com
Florida...@cs.com wrote:
# I have an original Thompson .45 cal carbine. It is a 1927 A1. Years
# ago, a letter from AutoOrdnance stated that only 5,000 of these
# simi-automatics were made. 11.5 million fully automatics were made.
# Several years ago, a guy told me he saw one like mine sell for
# $18,000.00. Its serial number is 4675, so it was made near the end of
# the run. This is not a replica or after market version. It is an
# original. I have an interested person who wants to buy the gun, but I
# am not sure what it is worth. I have two 50 round drums and 3 straight
# 30 round clips. What do any of you think it is worth. It is in good
# firing condition and has all parts including the compensator.
# Thanks..............Steve
#
Unless it's one of those limited-run gold-plated commemoratives, it's
nothing special. Mine's got a serial in the 20Ks, it's Numrich-made.
Kahr bought the trademark and continues to make them, it's currently in
production. No matter how you view it, the 1927A1 is a "replica"
semi-auto for those that either can't own or can't afford the real
full-auto. New, they go for around $1100-1300 at the shows, assuming
it's the deluxe version with the ribbed barrel, Cutts and "adjustable"
sight. More than it's really worth. New L drums are $260, 30 round
magazines anywhere from $20-30. If you'd sold the drums before the ban
sunset, you'd have been able to ask $1K@. Didn't see any move at that
price, saw plenty with that price on them. $18K would be starting
price on a real 1928 TSMG, not a 1927A1. Or an original 1927
semi-auto, although those are quite rare these days and might go for
much more if properly registered. Your numbers are way off on the
number of TSMGs made, too. Depending on condition, you might get $1K
for the works, depending on how much the buyer wants the outfit. Don't
buy that Ferrari yet...
Stan
RONSERESURPLUS
I hate to tell ya, But Most Guns never bring what the auction Value is
or near that, you'r probably looking at 1/2 of that $! I wish you well
and you have to decide if it's worth parting with something you will
never get back? A question most never think of when they have $ signs
in thier eyes? Just my .02 cents, but now have to charge $2.00!
RON
Florida...@cs.com wrote:
> ...
Dave Hinz
# If it's a 1927A1, it's very unlikely it worth $18 grand. That's closer to
# what original (transferrable, as in 1928) Thompsons sell for on the title II
# market.
Yeahbut,
# Have you seen http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_ao.html
Yeahbut,
# Also note that your gun's MSRP is $1164 according to
# http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_t1_f.html
For a new, Kahr-produced one, yes. They're nice, I have one. But
they're not an original Thompson.
# The only selling point you *may* have is if your gun was made before Kahr
# bought Auto Ordinance, it may interest a purist.
That's rather a central point here actually, I think.
#But, an M1927 was made to
# be a semi-automatic and not a true SMG irrespective of who made it...so what
# constitues "original" becomes subjective.
Seems to me it's pretty clear. This guy has a classic one; I have one
made in 2006. Worlds of difference.
I second the theory of putting out feelers here, and then watching
gunbroker. This is a specialist item, not for someone who wants to
pretend that the ones made today are it's equal. I've been inside the
current production ones; trust me, it's not pretty. It's adequate and
functions well but the machining on the inside, isn't so hot. But it
works.
Florida...@cs.com
1927 A1's I have seen in pawn shops and other places....have a serial
number that is about 8 to 12 digits long and sometimes have letters of
the alphabet......#228AB0036ZT is an example. They are also much
lighter in weight than mine. As I stated, I received a letter years
ago that stated Thompson only made 5,000 of these semi auto
carbines......that's why I always thought this one was special because
the serial number is #4675? Meaning to me, it falls under the 5,000
that were made. Maybe I will try to find that letter again. Any one
got a clue on why this is???? Thanks to everyone. I wish I found this
place earlier.....grin. Steve
R Sweeney
"Dave Hinz" <Dave...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:em8qi0$cu6$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# On Tue, 19 Dec 2006 01:43:07 +0000 (UTC), Rick Davis
# <richard...@yahoo.com> wrote:
# # If it's a 1927A1, it's very unlikely it worth $18 grand. That's closer
# to
# # what original (transferrable, as in 1928) Thompsons sell for on the
# title II
# # market.
#
# Yeahbut,
#
# # Have you seen http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_ao.html
#
# Yeahbut,
#
# # Also note that your gun's MSRP is $1164 according to
# # http://www.auto-ordnance.com/ao_t1_f.html
#
# For a new, Kahr-produced one, yes. They're nice, I have one. But
# they're not an original Thompson.
#
# # The only selling point you *may* have is if your gun was made before
# Kahr
# # bought Auto Ordinance, it may interest a purist.
#
# That's rather a central point here actually, I think.
#
# #But, an M1927 was made to
# # be a semi-automatic and not a true SMG irrespective of who made it...so
# what
# # constitues "original" becomes subjective.
#
# Seems to me it's pretty clear. This guy has a classic one; I have one
# made in 2006. Worlds of difference.
#
# I second the theory of putting out feelers here, and then watching
# gunbroker. This is a specialist item, not for someone who wants to
# pretend that the ones made today are it's equal. I've been inside the
# current production ones; trust me, it's not pretty. It's adequate and
# functions well but the machining on the inside, isn't so hot. But it
# works.
The 1927 history website says that fewer than 50 of these original 1920's
semi-auto's were made for law agencies who feared that their officers would
unload the entire magazine everytime they pressed the trigger.
The other interesting point is that the BATF considers the gun to be
full-auto since all it takes is three small parts to convert it back.
Dean Speir
# # If it's a 1927A1, it's very unlikely it worth $18 grand.
# # That's closer to what original (transferrable, as in 1928)
# # Thompsons sell for on the title II market.
<snippage>
A Model 1921 sold at auction out of a St. Louis-area Sheriff's Department
for just over $33,000 in March 2005.
Later that year everything but the barrel and receiver of a Form 10 Model
1921 (serial number #4xxx) was transferred out of my local police department
in a trade for four Colt's/Stoner pattern guns: one AR, two M4s, and one
"Commando," plus three EOTech sights.
If the purchaser is successful in his appeal with ATF to getting the
Thompson off the Form 10, another $20k is headed this way.
--
- Dean Speir <Dean...@thegunzone.com>
Formerly Famous Gunwriter / Gun Zone Maintainer
« =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= »
It's not a perfect world... it's why we _have_ guns!
The Gunperson's Authoritative Internet Information
Resource is at http://www.thegunzone.com.
sta...@prolynx.com
Dave Hinz wrote:
<snippage>
# I second the theory of putting out feelers here, and then watching
# gunbroker. This is a specialist item, not for someone who wants to
# pretend that the ones made today are it's equal. I've been inside the
# current production ones; trust me, it's not pretty. It's adequate and
# functions well but the machining on the inside, isn't so hot. But it
# works.
#
I've had a couple of Numrich ones, they're no more beautiful inside.
Lots of burrs, machining marks and stuff that should have been fixed
before they were boxed up. I DID make them work, but they were in no
way ready to go out of the box. The Kahrs I've seen at shows looked no
better or worse. Unless somebody's really got a jones for a Numrich
one, I don't see the early production ones bringing a big premium. No
match for even war-time production TSMGs' quality.
Stan
R Sweeney
<sta...@prolynx.com> wrote in message
news:ema0h4$41v$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#
# Dave Hinz wrote:
# <snippage>
# # I second the theory of putting out feelers here, and then watching
# # gunbroker. This is a specialist item, not for someone who wants to
# # pretend that the ones made today are it's equal. I've been inside the
# # current production ones; trust me, it's not pretty. It's adequate and
# # functions well but the machining on the inside, isn't so hot. But it
# # works.
# #
# I've had a couple of Numrich ones, they're no more beautiful inside.
# before they were boxed up. I DID make them work, but they were in no
# way ready to go out of the box. The Kahrs I've seen at shows looked no
# better or worse. Unless somebody's really got a jones for a Numrich
# one, I don't see the early production ones bringing a big premium. No
# match for even war-time production TSMGs' quality.
#
# Stan
According to one of the tommygun history sites, the 1920's semi-auto's were
Colts, made exactly like the full-auto's except for three small parts.
So I suspect quality to be identical as well.
These guns should have collection value above the full-auto value.
Florida...@cs.com
# I second the theory of putting out feelers here, and then watching
#
Well, I guess you know that I am new here. So, what are "feelers" and
what is "gunbroker"?.......grin. Also, the 50 round drum that came
with the gun, who I got from a guy who said it was his Grandfather's,
has a continuous spiral inside that feeds out the bullets. Many years
ago I bought another 50 round drum from a Federal Firearms Dealer, and
also 2 straight 30 round clips. The new drum did not have a continuous
spiral, but had 5 compartments that each held 10 bullets. When you use
this new drum clip, each time after it fires 10 times, the bolt locks
back, and you have to reset the next bullet. No bother reseting, was
wondering if some type of law was in effect when I bought this clip.
The original straight clip is all nice blue steel. The two newer ones
I bought seem to be some kind of plastic.....
thanks guys (and ladies too if here)........Steve
Hang Fire
#Thanks for all the info......but I am still wondering. All the other
#1927 A1's I have seen in pawn shops and other places....have a serial
#number that is about 8 to 12 digits long and sometimes have letters of
#the alphabet......#228AB0036ZT is an example. They are also much
#lighter in weight than mine. As I stated, I received a letter years
#ago that stated Thompson only made 5,000 of these semi auto
#carbines......that's why I always thought this one was special because
#the serial number is #4675? Meaning to me, it falls under the 5,000
#that were made. Maybe I will try to find that letter again. Any one
#got a clue on why this is???? Thanks to everyone. I wish I found this
#place earlier.....grin. Steve
How long is the barrel?
HF
Florida...@cs.com
#From where the "ribbing" starts, to the end of the compensator is 17
1/2 inches....slp/fmrc
Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
# I have an original Thompson .45 cal carbine. It is a 1927 A1.
Before you can get an accurate answer, you will need to accurately
identify the exact model that you have. If it is actually an "original"
Thompson .45 cal carbine, it would be a model 1927, not 1927A1.
The model 1927 fires from an open bolt and needs to be registered with
the BATFE as a machine gun, as it can be easily converted to fully
automatic configuration by replacing a few parts. This is the model
that you have heard about that is worth the big $.
The model 1927A1 looks just like a model 1927, but is internally quite
different. It fires from a closed bolt, and cannot be easily converted
to full auto. These were made by Auto Ordnance up until about 1999 and
have minimal extra collector value.
So, which is it - 1927 or 1927A1?
John Cowart
Gunny
<Florida...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:embei1$t3h$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#
# # I second the theory of putting out feelers here, and then watching
# # # gunbroker.
# #
# Well, I guess you know that I am new here. So, what are "feelers" and
# with the gun, who I got from a guy who said it was his Grandfather's,
# has a continuous spiral inside that feeds out the bullets. Many years
# ago I bought another 50 round drum from a Federal Firearms Dealer, and
# also 2 straight 30 round clips. The new drum did not have a continuous
# spiral, but had 5 compartments that each held 10 bullets. When you use
# this new drum clip, each time after it fires 10 times, the bolt locks
# back, and you have to reset the next bullet. No bother reseting, was
# wondering if some type of law was in effect when I bought this clip.
# The original straight clip is all nice blue steel. The two newer ones
# I bought seem to be some kind of plastic.....
# thanks guys (and ladies too if here)........Steve
You'll probably get lots of descriptions, but www.gunbroker.com and
www.auctionarms.com could best be described to a new guy as the "EBay" sites
for the gun world (since EBay will not do the listings themselves). You can
see what is currently offered for sale and you can research what has already
sold. When trying to establish the value of a gun, be sure not to rely on
current offers. Do your search on COMPLETED auctions that resulted in a
successful sale. You will see hundreds of prior listings that did NOT have
a successful sale. About all these will tell you is that they were priced
higher than buyers were willing to offer, at least at that time. If you can
find several successful sales of your gun, then you have a pretty reliable
view on its value.
Doug T
# Thanks for all the info......but I am still wondering. All the other
# 1927 A1's I have seen in pawn shops and other places....have a serial
# number that is about 8 to 12 digits long and sometimes have letters of
# the alphabet......#228AB0036ZT is an example. They are also much
# lighter in weight than mine. As I stated, I received a letter years
# ago that stated Thompson only made 5,000 of these semi auto
# carbines......that's why I always thought this one was special because
# the serial number is #4675? Meaning to me, it falls under the 5,000
# that were made. Maybe I will try to find that letter again. Any one
# got a clue on why this is???? Thanks to everyone. I wish I found this
# place earlier.....grin. Steve
Ex shop owner who has a few Thompsons and seems to be quite
knowledgeable says $10,000-$15,000 depending on conditions extras and
such. His numbers might be a bit dated.
Doug T
Colin
# I have an original Thompson .45 cal carbine. It is a 1927 A1. Years
# ago, a letter from AutoOrdnance stated that only 5,000 of these
#<<<SNIP>>>
Contact this guy, he is considered an expert on this kind of thing----
ArmchairGunShow.com is the online catalog of Old Town Station, Ltd.
Jim Supica, Pres.
Mailing address is PO Box 14040, Lenexa KS 66285
Phone 913-492-3000, 9am-4pm Central, Weekdays.
Good luck!
Florida...@cs.com
it was worth. I know that the gun fires with the bolt closed. Don't
really see how it could fire when open. The local law told me it was
legal to have. Waiting to hear what the length of the barrel has to do
with anything.......Steve
> ...
sta...@prolynx.com
Florida...@cs.com wrote:
# # I second the theory of putting out feelers here, and then watching
# # # gunbroker.
# #
# Well, I guess you know that I am new here. So, what are "feelers" and
# with the gun, who I got from a guy who said it was his Grandfather's,
# has a continuous spiral inside that feeds out the bullets. Many years
# ago I bought another 50 round drum from a Federal Firearms Dealer, and
# also 2 straight 30 round clips. The new drum did not have a continuous
# spiral, but had 5 compartments that each held 10 bullets. When you use
# this new drum clip, each time after it fires 10 times, the bolt locks
# back, and you have to reset the next bullet. No bother reseting, was
# wondering if some type of law was in effect when I bought this clip.
# The original straight clip is all nice blue steel. The two newer ones
# I bought seem to be some kind of plastic.....
# thanks guys (and ladies too if here)........Steve
#
#
#
What you have is post-ban 10 round magazine that just happens to look
like a 50 round L drum. I've only seen them advertised during the
magazine ban era, I've never examined one. A real L drum has
continuous spiral and a number of arms spaced around the central rotor,
5 rounds are loaded in the spaces between each arm. If you have an
original WWII or before drum, these can be worth some money to the
right collector with the right markings. I've never seen any plastic
Thompson stick magazines, they've all been modified 1921/28 TSMG steel
stick magazines. GI-surplus TSMG magazines can be modified to fit the
1927A1 with a little Dremeling on the magazine latch hole(Numrich's
solution for the originals supplied) or the magazine latch itself can
be modified to use the unmodified magazines(my solution).
Stan
sta...@prolynx.com
Dean Speir wrote:
# Dave Hinz <Dave...@gmail.com> tells Rick Davis:
#
# # # If it's a 1927A1, it's very unlikely it worth $18 grand.
# # # That's closer to what original (transferrable, as in 1928)
# # # Thompsons sell for on the title II market.
#
# <snippage>
#
# A Model 1921 sold at auction out of a St. Louis-area Sheriff's Department
# for just over $33,000 in March 2005.
#
# Later that year everything but the barrel and receiver of a Form 10 Model
# 1921 (serial number #4xxx) was transferred out of my local police department
# in a trade for four Colt's/Stoner pattern guns: one AR, two M4s, and one
# "Commando," plus three EOTech sights.
#
# If the purchaser is successful in his appeal with ATF to getting the
# Thompson off the Form 10, another $20k is headed this way.
#
# --
# - Dean Speir <Dean...@thegunzone.com>
# Formerly Famous Gunwriter / Gun Zone Maintainer
Yeah, the 1921 on the loose is a rare bird. Colt only made 15000 of
them to start with and many were later converted to 1928 specs. One of
my shooting buddies in the early 70's regretted not having a Class II
FFL, a common trade back then was an M16 for a Dillinger-era Thompson,
even-up, at some of the smaller cop shops in the state. It was the era
of the SLA, SDS, blowing up ROTC buildings and such and the locals felt
better with a newer military weapon on hand than an antique that
probably hadn't made it out of the department rack in 30 years. Now
you could probably buy a whole lot more current stuff with that one
Thompson's value.
Stan
Herb Leong
R Sweeney <DockS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
#
#According to one of the tommygun history sites, the 1920's semi-auto's were
#Colts, made exactly like the full-auto's except for three small parts.
Are those "three small parts" guns the same ones another poster said are
classified by the BATFE as full auto anyway?
/herb
Tom Quackenbush
#I have an original Thompson .45 cal carbine. It is a 1927 A1. Years
#ago, a letter from AutoOrdnance stated that only 5,000 of these
#simi-automatics were made. 11.5 million fully automatics were made.
#Several years ago, a guy told me he saw one like mine sell for
#$18,000.00. Its serial number is 4675, so it was made near the end of
#the run. This is not a replica or after market version. It is an
#original. I have an interested person who wants to buy the gun, but I
#am not sure what it is worth. I have two 50 round drums and 3 straight
#30 round clips. What do any of you think it is worth. It is in good
#firing condition and has all parts including the compensator.
I don't know much about Tommy guns, but found this chart of serial
numbers/ mfg dates on the web:
http://www.nfatoys.com/tsmg/tcn/1998/aug/aug98p3.htm
It'd probably help if you could find your AO letter.
R,
Tom Q.
R Sweeney
<Florida...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:emesr2$52u$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# Thanks guys. I have had this gun for 30 years now, never knowing what
# it was worth. I know that the gun fires with the bolt closed. Don't
# really see how it could fire when open. The local law told me it was
# legal to have. Waiting to hear what the length of the barrel has to do
# with anything.......Steve
when you cock it, if the bolt is back before you pull the trigger, it's
original
else it's the worthless new version
if the barrel is short (<18") then it's the original, else it's new.
R Sweeney
"Herb Leong" <he...@urusei.net> wrote in message
news:emesro$541$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# In article <embeht$t3b$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu>,
# R Sweeney <DockS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
# #
# #According to one of the tommygun history sites, the 1920's semi-auto's
# #Colts, made exactly like the full-auto's except for three small parts.
# Are those "three small parts" guns the same ones another poster said are
# classified by the BATFE as full auto anyway?
#
# /herb
the poster was me, yes
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/atf_letter12.txt
I think if I had a Colt 1927, I would buy the parts and convert to full
auto.
Otherwise, what's the point? You can always put it back semi for collection
purposes.
I can't figure out if this guy has the original Colt 1927 or the worthless
AO A1 repro... I am leaning towards the latter, per his closed bolt
comments.
Florida...@cs.com
"What you have is post-ban 10 round magazine that just happens to look
like a 50 round L drum."
each hold 10 bullets. Like I said, after the gun fires 10 times, the
bolt stays back, and you have to pull it back again to start the next
10 rounds. That's why it never made any sense to me. You would think
during the band, it would only hold 10, but it holds 50, in 5
compartments each holding 10 bullets. Maybe it met the requirements of
not continuously firing more than 10, but all you have to do is just
pull the bolt back again. The original drum that came with the gun,
holds 50 bulets, but they are in a continuous spiral, and all 50 fire,
then leaving the bolt opened.
"when you cock it, if the bolt is back before you pull the trigger,
it's
original"
When you cock it???? There is no hammer to pull back?? You just pull
the bolt back to load a bullet in the chamber. When you let the bolt
go, it slides down shut and is ready to fire.
Man, this is really confusing. I tried several times today to call Jim
Supica, an expert on all this I was advised to call....no answer. I
left a message. He is probably on Christmas vacation. There is a man
I am going to meet tomorrow who is somewhat knowledgeable on these
things. Maybe we will get some answers tomorrow.....yeah, I need to
find that letter I got years ago from AutoOrdnance.
Looking at the newer 50 drum that has the 5 compartments each holding
10 bullets, it says "Magazine type "L".....Thompson Submachine
Gun......50 cartridges cal. 45......For 1928 Model .....wind to 9 or 11
clicks. You have to open it up to fill the mag.
The orginal drum that you just feed 50 bullets into only has
"AUTO-ORDNANCE CORPORATION.....WEST HURLEY, NEW YORK, U.S.A....then has
the Tompson trade mark.
The orginal straight clip has "THE SEYMOUR PRODUCTS CO......SEYMOUR
CONN"
It is a nice shinny blue steel one.
The newer straight clips I bought turn out not to be plastic, but steel
ones that look like a "flat black", giving the appearance of plastic.
They have no writing or numbers on it anywhere. All the clips work
fine. I am turning 60 and have far too many guns around. I live out
in the middle of 57,000 acres of timber land and have enjoyed hunting
and shooting for many years. I am just thinking, it is time for me to
start getting things in order for the day that will soon be coming.
Hate to say this, but really don't want too many guns laying around
after I am gone for my children and grandchildren to be dicking
with.....none of which have any working knowledge of firearms......
> ...
Thomas Reynolds
<Florida...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:emgkg6$7u0$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#
# "What you have is post-ban 10 round magazine that just happens to look
# like a 50 round L drum."
# No......the drum holds 50 rounds. There are five compartments that
# each hold 10 bullets. Like I said, after the gun fires 10 times, the
# bolt stays back, and you have to pull it back again to start the next
# 10 rounds. That's why it never made any sense to me. You would think
# during the band, it would only hold 10, but it holds 50, in 5
# compartments each holding 10 bullets. Maybe it met the requirements of
# not continuously firing more than 10, but all you have to do is just
# pull the bolt back again. The original drum that came with the gun,
# holds 50 bulets, but they are in a continuous spiral, and all 50 fire,
# then leaving the bolt opened.
#
# "when you cock it, if the bolt is back before you pull the trigger,
# it's
# original"
# When you cock it???? There is no hammer to pull back?? You just pull
# the bolt back to load a bullet in the chamber. When you let the bolt
# go, it slides down shut and is ready to fire.
# Man, this is really confusing. I tried several times today to call Jim
# Supica, an expert on all this I was advised to call....no answer. I
# left a message. He is probably on Christmas vacation. There is a man
# I am going to meet tomorrow who is somewhat knowledgeable on these
# things. Maybe we will get some answers tomorrow.....yeah, I need to
# find that letter I got years ago from AutoOrdnance.
# Looking at the newer 50 drum that has the 5 compartments each holding
# 10 bullets, it says "Magazine type "L".....Thompson Submachine
# Gun......50 cartridges cal. 45......For 1928 Model .....wind to 9 or 11
# clicks. You have to open it up to fill the mag.
# The orginal drum that you just feed 50 bullets into only has
# "AUTO-ORDNANCE CORPORATION.....WEST HURLEY, NEW YORK, U.S.A....then has
# the Tompson trade mark.
# The orginal straight clip has "THE SEYMOUR PRODUCTS CO......SEYMOUR
# CONN"
# It is a nice shinny blue steel one.
# The newer straight clips I bought turn out not to be plastic, but steel
# ones that look like a "flat black", giving the appearance of plastic.
# They have no writing or numbers on it anywhere. All the clips work
# fine. I am turning 60 and have far too many guns around. I live out
# in the middle of 57,000 acres of timber land and have enjoyed hunting
# and shooting for many years. I am just thinking, it is time for me to
# start getting things in order for the day that will soon be coming.
# Hate to say this, but really don't want too many guns laying around
# after I am gone for my children and grandchildren to be dicking
# with.....none of which have any working knowledge of firearms......
Smart decision. You really don't want to leave guns to folks who don't have
the interest or aptitude to deal with them properly or safely, or sell them
for the right price for that matter. People who don't know how to drive
should not be behind the wheel and folks who are not competent with guns
should not have a dozen in their house.
R Sweeney
# "when you cock it, if the bolt is back before you pull the trigger,
# it's
# original"
# When you cock it???? There is no hammer to pull back?? You just pull
# the bolt back to load a bullet in the chamber. When you let the bolt
# go, it slides down shut and is ready to fire.
the original 1927 thompson is an open bolt rifle, the bolt is only forward
when the trigger is pressed and the round is being fired. So when you pull
back on the cocking knob, the bolt stays back, ready to fire. The original
firing pin is fixed and ALWAYS sticks out from the bolt face.
the reproduction design is a closed bolt rifle, the bolt is forward except
when the casings are being extracted and new round loaded. When you let go
of the cocking knob, the bolt moves forward into battery. The firing pin is
retracted until the trigger is pulled.
You are describing a closed bolt operation.
It seems almost certain you have the post 1970's Auto Ordinance 1927A1
reproduction, worth maybe $800, not the original 1927 Colt worth $15-20K.
Measure the barrel length... if its 10" long, its the original, if its 18"
then its the repro. Or measure the whole gun end to end, 41" is new, 34" is
old.
Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
# Measure the barrel length... if its 10" long, its the original, if its 18"
# then its the repro. Or measure the whole gun end to end, 41" is new, 34" is
# old.
The repros have 16.5" barrels, not 18". The figure of 41" OAL is
correct.
John Cowart
Mark Crispin
# the original 1927 thompson is an open bolt rifle, the bolt is only forward
# when the trigger is pressed and the round is being fired. So when you pull
# back on the cocking knob, the bolt stays back, ready to fire.
Correct for all original and WWII Thompsons.
# The original
# firing pin is fixed and ALWAYS sticks out from the bolt face.
This is NOT correct. The fixed firing pin was introduced in the WWII
M1A1.
In the original Thompsons (M1919, M1921, M1928, M1927), the bolt assembly
consists of three field-strippable pieces: the bolt, the Blish lock, and
an actuator (which also is the handle which sticks out of the top of the
receiver and by which you pull the bolt back). When the bolt flies
forward with the loaded round and fully chambers, the actuator moves
forward in the bolt and impacts the firing pin assembly, which is
spring-loaded in the bolt and is normally not disassembled for field
stripping.
There are numerous reproduction Thompson field manuals which clearly show
how the M1921 bolt operated.
The M1928 is simply a modified M1921 for a slower rate of fire. All
Colt-made M1928 guns were originally M1921. M1928 guns were also made by
Auto Ordnance and Savage during WWII.
The original (*NOT* the modern production) M1927 was simply a modified
M1921 in which the FULL/SEMI-AUTO lever is removed and the rocker is fixed
in semi-auto mode.
The WWII M1 had a substantially simplified bolt, removing the Blish lock.
Savage felt that the Blish lock was of dubious utility at best, since the
inertia of the bolt was quite enough to ensure that the bolt wouldn't move
back until the pressures were safe (back in 1919 they didn't have the same
understanding about blowback mechanisms that people had just 20 years
later). Supposedly, an M1928 worked just fine without the Blish lock
installed.
The M1A1 was a further simplification, with a fixed firing pin. A fixed
firing pin was pretty common in WWII-vintage submachine gun designs, as
the needs of wartime spurred designers to what was cheap and expedient as
opposed to what was elegant.
As far as I know, the M1A1 is the only model Thompson with a fixed firing
pin. All other Thompsons, including the modern reproductions, have a
hammer-driven firing pin.
-- Mark --
http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
Rick Davis
Does it have engraving, gold plating or an insert that describes a person of
significance or a place?
<Florida...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:ema0gr$41h$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# that's why I always thought this one was special because
# the serial number is #4675? Meaning to me, it falls under the 5,000
# that were made.
R Sweeney
"Mark Crispin" <M...@cac.washington.edu> wrote in message
news:emi0t5$3v9$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, R Sweeney wrote:
# # The original
# # firing pin is fixed and ALWAYS sticks out from the bolt face.
#
# This is NOT correct. The fixed firing pin was introduced in the WWII
# M1A1.
My mistake, the M1A1 is the only Thompson I have ever shot.
I had forgotten the spring loaded firing pin on the earlier models.
R Sweeney
<Florida...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:emceri$hjf$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#
# #From where the "ribbing" starts, to the end of the compensator is 17
# 1/2 inches....slp/fmrc
You have a 1980's reproduction... worth about $800 or so.
An L drum magazine is worth a couple of hundred.
Stick mags are $10-20
R Sweeney
"Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley" <cowar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:emi0t1$3v6$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#R Sweeney wrote:
# # Measure the barrel length... if its 10" long, its the original, if its
# 18"
# # then its the repro. Or measure the whole gun end to end, 41" is new, 34"
# is
# # old.
#
# The repros have 16.5" barrels, not 18". The figure of 41" OAL is
# correct.
#
# John Cowart
It's virtually certain his gun is a AO repro, not an original
long barrel, closed bolt
R Sweeney
"R Sweeney" <DockS...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:emf4pf$9uv$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
#
# <Florida...@cs.com> wrote in message
# news:emesr2$52u$1...@grapevine.wam.umd.edu...
# # Thanks guys. I have had this gun for 30 years now, never knowing what
# # it was worth. I know that the gun fires with the bolt closed. Don't
# # really see how it could fire when open. The local law told me it was
# # legal to have. Waiting to hear what the length of the barrel has to do
# # with anything.......Steve
#
# when you cock it, if the bolt is back before you pull the trigger, it's
# original
# else it's the worthless new version
#
# if the barrel is short (<18") then it's the original, else it's new.
make that, if the barrel is 10" you are original
Florida...@cs.com
More confusion......Starting from the top portion of the stock, to the
end of the compensator is exactly 39 1/2 inches. The Serial Number
Chart URL that was given earlier states that this gun was made in 1976.
That's about when I bought the gun, and it looked to be a gun that had
been around for a while. I'm thinking the guy I bought it from was not
telling the truth when he said it belonged to his Grandfather. By the
way, thanks a lot for that said URL. I guess nobody here had any more
comments on the clips I described earlier. I'm thinking I bought the
newer Drum Clip before there were any bands on clips having more than
10 round capacity.......Steve
Dean Speir
# I guess nobody here had any more comments on the
# clips I described earlier. I'm thinking I bought the
# newer Drum Clip before there were any bands on
# clips having more than 10 round capacity.......
Whatever gun you do have, it definitely needs to find a better home!
[mutter mutter mutter!]
--
- Scrooge McSpeir <Dean...@thegunzone.com>
Formerly Famous Gunwriter / Gun Zone Maintainer
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