Hearing Protection On Movie and Television Sets

[peterw...@hotmail.com]

I realize that the finished sound of gunshots in the movies is
typically dubbed in post production, but blanks are in fact fired on
set. Does the film industry use some type of ear plug that does not
show to protect actors' hearing?

Thank you,

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist


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[Fraser Johnston]

On 27/10/11 9:29 AM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
# I realize that the finished sound of gunshots in the movies is
# typically dubbed in post production, but blanks are in fact fired on
# set. Does the film industry use some type of ear plug that does not
# show to protect actors' hearing?

A lot of current movie props are gas guns that make a muzzle blast but
very little noise.

Fraser

[William Earl Haskell]

Fraser Johnston wrote:
# On 27/10/11 9:29 AM, peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
# # I realize that the finished sound of gunshots in the movies is
# # typically dubbed in post production, but blanks are in fact fired on
# # set. Does the film industry use some type of ear plug that does not
# # show to protect actors' hearing?
#
# A lot of current movie props are gas guns that make a muzzle blast but
# very little noise.
#

Back when he was still making movies, Ronald Reagan wound up losing a
good part of his hearing in one (left?) ear when someone let off a
pistol loaded with blanks too close to his head.

OK

[peterw...@hotmail.com]

On Oct 27, 3:58=A0am, Fraser Johnston <fra...@cjmanagement.com.au>
wrote:
# On 27/10/11 9:29 AM, peterweze...@hotmail.com wrote:
# # I realize that the finished sound of gunshots in the movies is
# # typically dubbed in post production, but blanks are in fact fired on
# # set. Does the film industry use some type of ear plug that does not
# # show to protect actors' hearing?
#
# A lot of current movie props are gas guns that make a muzzle blast but
# very little noise.

Offhand, my most recent specific knowledge is that on James Cameron's
1998 _Titanic_, a Colt M1911 auto modified to function with blank
cartridges was used. This caused comment on rec.guns as to whether a
M1911 would in fact have been available in 1912. It turned out that
the film makers were well aware of the possible anachronism, but the
dominant consideration was the established reliability of the M1911
blank conversions. A misfire could have required retaking an elaborate
chase scene with hundreds of actors and extras on set.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

[Jim Bianchi]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 01:25:40 +0000 (UTC), peterw...@hotmail.com wrote:
# On Oct 27, 3:58=A0am, Fraser Johnston <fra...@cjmanagement.com.au>
# wrote:
# # On 27/10/11 9:29 AM, peterweze...@hotmail.com wrote:
# # # I realize that the finished sound of gunshots in the movies is
# # # typically dubbed in post production, but blanks are in fact fired on
# # # set. Does the film industry use some type of ear plug that does not
# # # show to protect actors' hearing?

# #
# # A lot of current movie props are gas guns that make a muzzle blast but

# # very little noise.

Many years ago, Otto Preminger's movie company came to NAVCOMSTA
Wahiawa (Oahu, Hawaii) to get extras for the film "In Harms Way" which
portrayed events on Oahu circa Dec 7, 1941. In one scene, a bunch of us are
firing '03 Springfields at attacking Japanese aircraft. An army looking
truck pulls up and some dude starts passing out Springfields which we take
and 'pretend' to fire at aircraft (simulating recoil, etc). When the bolt
was operated, heyyy. There's shells in these things! It wasn't until time to
put the rifles back in the truck to prepare for the retake that some fool
put his finger in the trigger guard just as some other poor bloke pulled on
the muzzle. <BANG> Hey, they're loaded with blanks and how cool is THAT? The
next take saw a lot more enthusiasm!

Anyway in this case, full zoot blanks were loaded and not only did
no one have any ear protection, we were never even told the rifles were
loaded with blanks.

--
ji...@sonic.net
"They forgot to put my name on the credits!"

[pyotr filipivich]

And nobody apparently checked to see if their rifle was loaded, at
all, first?

Squids! B-)

--
pyotr filipivich

[Beartooth]

On Sun, 30 Oct 2011 10:40:10 +0000, Jim Bianchi wrote:

# Many years ago, Otto Preminger's movie company came to NAVCOMSTA
# Wahiawa (Oahu, Hawaii) to get extras for the film "In Harms Way" which
# portrayed events on Oahu circa Dec 7, 1941. In one scene, a bunch of us
# are firing '03 Springfields at attacking Japanese aircraft. [....]

# Anyway in this case, full zoot blanks were loaded and not only did
# no one have any ear protection, we were never even told the rifles were
# loaded with blanks.

When did hearing protection of any sort become common? I recall
using firearms, chainsaws, power mowers, and other such things without
having heard of hearing protection, much less any consensus that it was
needed.

So the original question, whether it's used, might perhaps better
be phrased in terms of when which parts of the industry began using it --
if, of course, indeed they have ....

--
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
What do they know of country, who only country know?

[Steve B]

# # Anyway in this case, full zoot blanks were loaded and not only did
# # no one have any ear protection, we were never even told the rifles were
# # loaded with blanks.

I have roamed the deserts of southern Nevada extensively. Gotten into some
of the dry lakes that were used for strafing practice, and apparently combat
scenarios. We saw thousands and thousands of .50 BMG, and one larger than
that, looks like a 20 mm. Lots of live 50's, no live 20's. But we did find
bazillions of .30 cals. In some places, there were thousands in piles.
They were fired, and were shells with lead. Then we found lots and lots of
shells that were crimped shut, and when fired, the crimping blew outward,
but not enough so you could not see it was once crimped.

My question: Were these full powder loads? Apparently they were training
blanks. But, I was just wondering if they had to be full powder loads, or
perhaps were used in training rifles with weaker springs. And if they were
full powder loads, that had to be a lot of racket in close quarters.

Steve

[Radbert Grimmig]

Beartooth schrieb:

#When did hearing protection of any sort become common?


A poignant question.

I have often wondered how common it was in the world wars?

Did any soldiers use ear plugs like "Ohropax", which had been invented
in 1907? Did they improvise? Countless veterans must have returned
with damaged hearing nonetheless.

Or even earlier. Consider the kind of noise that must have ripped
through warships' gun decks even in the age of sail.

I once forgot to bring my plugs to the range during my military
service, and it was more than unpleasant. Also, no matter the
machismo, any thinking military leader must want his men able to hear
orders and commands.

--

Gruß
Radbert

[Gunner Asch]

The crimped cases contained a very..very..very rapid powder and indeed
simulated a live round being fired, in sound and some cases..recoil as
well. The powder used is just this side of a high explosive..so do NOT
try to use it for a propellent. Bad..very bad things will happen if one
tries this. I have...had..a friend in high school back in the late 1960s
who tried this. Closed coffin funeral was manditory.


That being said.......it does make some very interesting "Improvised
Munitions" if one finds a bunch of blanks and dumps the powder into
suitable containers and SAFELY lit via fuse, nichrome wire etc
etc...from a seriously good distance away.

And yes...it IS very noisey in combat in close quarters.

And wearing arty plugs (ear plugs for reducing noise) is contra
indicated in combat. That which you cant hear..can kill you.

Gunner , with significant hearing loss.

[greylock]

My step-father was with Patton's army in WWII - he was a cannon-cocker
through one period as well as a firearms instructor in another.

He - and apparently a lot of others in those two specialities, at
least - wore earplugs made of cotton with wax (or paraffin).

Apparently, you worked the material with your fingers until it got
soft and then inserted it and pressed it to conform with your ear.

He got a snuff can and used that to hold the plugs after he conformed
them, but it sounds like you had to re-do it occasionally.

He's still around at 89-ish and still had excellent hearing until he
got surprised and was in under a tin roof when a .300 magnum was
fired. It damaged the hearing in his left ear a bit.

[Kevin Snodgrass]

On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 18:01:16 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
# When did hearing protection of any sort become common? I recall
# using firearms, chainsaws, power mowers, and other such things without
# having heard of hearing protection, much less any consensus that it was
# needed.

First time I ever wore hearing protection was at a machine gun shoot in
1997. Everything from suppressed Uzi's to a Ma Deuce was there.

Never in military service (medically unfit), but still shot 10's of
thousands of rounds without protection. That, numerous concussions,
running open headers on my hot rod, jack hammers, mowers and farm
equipment have left me with very diminished hearing in my right ear,
somewhat in my left. But the tinnitus is the bigger problem.

# So the original question, whether it's used, might perhaps better
# be phrased in terms of when which parts of the industry began using it
# -- if, of course, indeed they have ....

I think most companies now push hearing protection pretty strong. I know
they push eye protection, even in places where risk is minimal. Fedzilla
(OSHA) and all....

[ray]

What about our military during firefights. I notice the configuration
of their helmets now protects their ears, but is that for noise
consideration or shrapnel...

Ray,

(Si vis pacem
para bellum)

[pyotr filipivich]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Wed, 16 Nov 2011 22:08:44 +0000
(UTC) typed in rec.guns the following:
#
#And yes...it IS very noisey in combat in close quarters.

Indoors, outdoors - when the shooting stops, you're not going to
be hearing much in the way of small sounds for a while.
#
#And wearing arty plugs (ear plugs for reducing noise) is contra
#indicated in combat. That which you cant hear..can kill you.

You have to be alive to bitch about hearing loss.
#
#Gunner , with significant hearing loss.
--
pyotr filipivich

[TimR]

# #

# #And wearing arty plugs (ear plugs for reducing noise) is contra

# #indicated in combat. =A0That which you cant hear..can kill you.
#
# =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 You have to be alive to bitch about hearing loss.

Does this really make sense?

On two grounds:

Whether you can't hear well because you're wearing earplugs or can't
hear well because you've been deafened by nearby explosions and
gunfire wouldn't seem to make a lot of difference to your
survivability.

Secondly, combat isn't a ninja movie. Realistically, when are you
ever going to be saved by hearing somebody sneak up on you in the
midst of a tank battle, urban shootouts, or any other likely
scenario? This is a carryover from cowboy and Indian movies, I think,
not real life.

[Martin Eastburn]

The best is the electronic headsets. Hear the guy next to you on the
line bragging on his 10x and protects your ears when he fires his
cannon. And protects you when you fire yours. All sorts of companies
make them from Guns use to airline background noise.

Martin

[Tom]

On 11/20/2011 09:37 AM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
# The best is the electronic headsets. Hear the guy next to you on the
# line bragging on his 10x and protects your ears when he fires his
# cannon. And protects you when you fire yours. All sorts of companies
# make them from Guns use to airline background noise.

Martin, I agree on the electronic muffs, with one BIG caveat.
They must still provide at least a 25+ NNR rating, and the
higher the better.
The circuit cut off only stops sounds going through the amps,
not around or through the muffs themselves. Some of the really
pricey Peltors only advertise a 19 NNR rating. Not good enough.

Kind Regards,

Tom

[Bob Holtzman]

On 2011-11-19, TimR <timot...@aol.com> wrote:

.......snip.......
#
# Secondly, combat isn't a ninja movie. Realistically, when are you
# ever going to be saved by hearing somebody sneak up on you in the
# midst of a tank battle, urban shootouts, or any other likely
# scenario? This is a carryover from cowboy and Indian movies, I think,
# not real life.

How about shouted warnings of an ambush, or would you rather keep
walking into it in blissful ignorance?

Bob Holtzman

[Mk VII]

They mould flesh-colored ear inserts for the stars, who are going to
be in close-up.

[SaPeIsMa]

There are now in the ear plugs that do what electronic shooting muffs do.
They transmit ordinary sounds while filtering out anything above a certain
level, such as "bangs"..

[Radbert Grimmig]

Bob Holtzman schrieb:

#How about shouted warnings of an ambush, or would you rather keep
#walking into it in blissful ignorance?

It's not as if you don't heard anything while wearing ear protection.

--

Gruß
Radbert

[Murff]

On Mon, 21 Nov 2011 11:44:50 +0000, SaPeIsMa wrote:

# There are now in the ear plugs that do what electronic shooting muffs
# do. They transmit ordinary sounds while filtering out anything above a
# certain level, such as "bangs"..
#

I find "flight" ear plugs do that. Silicone plugs with a series of
flanges round them, and a channel through the middle with a small
cylinder of cotton in it.

Hearing is sufficiently unimpaired for conversation to be readily
audible, as are pheasant wing sounds. But they cut out loud bangs (no
tinnitus, for example, when shooting).

I don't like over-the-ear muffs - they get in the way of a stock, feel
awkward and uncomfortable. Even slim ones. But the ear plugs work very
well. They're cleanable (they do accrete wax over time, and need
cleaning) with warm soapy water. They're cheap, and only need replacing
when the cotton wad eventually falls out.

Murff...

[Walter Martindale]

Can't speak for the movie industry. I did some indoor shooting in
junior rifle clubs where we were expected to learn to not flinch
indoors while shooting with the .22. that was late 1960s. No hearing
protection.
Did a summer in a "student summer employment activity program" or
SSEAP in the Canadian reserves, 1975. The captain (a year behind me
in university) thought it would be a good idea for 'the privates' to
learn what gunfire sounded like, and wouldn't allow us to use hearing
protection. So, firing the FNC1 wasn't good for the left ear - thanks
to both my muzzle blast, and that of the guy firing on my left.
1976-1977 - caught flack from co-workers for using ear plugs while
running a chainsaw.
Mid-late 1970s, outdoor shooting range in Vancouver, BC, no
requirement for hearing protection.
Returned to shooting in 1986 after a lay-off. Not allowed on the
range without ear and eye protection. (and, frankly, not willing to go
in the range without ear protection).
I've also spent nearly 30 years sitting next to outboard motors for my
work. Last few years I've grown tired of the engine noise, and won't
go in the boat without a pair of Peltor "shotgunner" or equivalent
muffs. Tinnitus is a major part of my life...

Dad was an instructor of gunnery (25 pounders in Royal Canadian
Artillery during the WW2) - we had to shout at him at the dinner
table.
W

[TimR]

On Nov 20, 6:27=A0pm, Bob Holtzman <hol...@cox.net> wrote:

# On 2011-11-19, TimR <timothy...@aol.com> wrote:
#

# =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 .......snip.......
# #
# # Secondly, combat isn't a ninja movie. =A0Realistically, when are you
# # ever going to be saved by hearing somebody sneak up on you in the
# # midst of a tank battle, urban shootouts, or any other likely
# # scenario? =A0This is a carryover from cowboy and Indian movies, I think=
,
# # not real life.
#
# How about shouted warnings of an ambush, or would you rather keep
# walking into it in blissful ignorance?
#
# Bob Holtzman
#

How about hearing the range master say:

the range is hot
cease fire, cease fire
clear and safe your weapons

I have so far had no trouble hearing those with my hearing protection
on.

And again, is there a difference between hearing those commands, or an
ambush warning, between wearing hearing protection and wearing damaged
ears?

Combat used to be different - in Kipling's day. Here's a snip from
the Ballad of East and West:

And thrice he heard a breech-bolt snick tho=92 never a man was seen.

But not anymore.

[Bob Holtzman]

On 2011-11-21, Radbert Grimmig <gri...@cityweb.de> wrote:
# Bob Holtzman schrieb:
#
# #How about shouted warnings of an ambush, or would you rather keep
# #walking into it in blissful ignorance?
#
# It's not as if you don't heard anything while wearing ear protection.

True, but whether you can hear *enough* depends on the situation.

--
Bob Holtzman

[peterw...@hotmail.com]

On Nov 20, 9:37=A0am, Martin Eastburn <lionsl...@consolidated.net>
wrote:
# The best is the electronic headsets. =A0Hear the guy next to you on the

# line bragging on his 10x and protects your ears when he fires his

# cannon. =A0And protects you when you fire yours. =A0All sorts of companie=

s
# make them from Guns use to airline background noise.

SWAT teams now often wear electronic ear muffs on a mission. They have
a high probability of being in a firefight, and they want to be able
to hear afterward. There are special police model muffs that have an
external jack so the wearers can plug their tactical radio in to the
muff speakers, which makes the radio easier to use. I expect some
similar device to become common issue for the military within a few
years. Special operations probably already have such things available
at need.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

[peterw...@hotmail.com]

I believe that anti-noise ear muffs were first used by jet aircraft
ground crews. A former member of the Army Marksmanship Training Unit
told me that they used to trade stuff to the jet crews to get ear
muffs. I suspect that ground crews were experiencing measurable
hearing loss when jets came into use. I have seen and heard a pure
turbojet at an airshow (British Avro Vulcan bomber) and it was plenty
loud even 500 feet in the air.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

[Dillon Pyron]

Thus spake peterw...@hotmail.com :

#I realize that the finished sound of gunshots in the movies is
#typically dubbed in post production, but blanks are in fact fired on
#set. Does the film industry use some type of ear plug that does not
#show to protect actors' hearing?
#
#Thank you,
#
#Peter Wezeman
#anti-social Darwinist

On "Walker ..." everybody shooting or nearby wore "flesh" colored
earplugs. And tried to avoid filming shooting sequences where one
might get a good view of the ear. A friend who worked on the set told
me that Chuck was a safety nut. If Chuck Norris saw someone doing
something unsafe he'd give the guy a roundhouse kick in to a different
universe. Then go there and kick the guy back to this one.

[Steve B]

Historically, "Shane" was the first movie to use intentionally amplified
gunfire.

Steve

[peterw...@hotmail.com]

On Dec 21 2011, 6:58=A0am, Dillon Pyron <dmpy...@austin.rr.com> wrote:

#
# On "Walker ..." everybody shooting or nearby wore "flesh" colored
# earplugs. =A0And tried to avoid filming shooting sequences where one
# might get a good view of the ear. =A0A friend who worked on the set told
# me that Chuck was a safety nut. =A0If Chuck Norris saw someone doing
# something unsafe he'd give the guy a roundhouse kick in to a different
# universe. =A0Then go there and kick the guy back to this one.
#
Thank you for your reply.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

[nord...@yahoo.com]

Minor data point: In the funeral sequence in Zombieland it looked like
Abigail Breslin was jumping out her skin at each shot of the party's
three gun salute.

[Petey]

nord...@yahoo.com wrote:

# Minor data point: In the funeral sequence in Zombieland it looked like
# Abigail Breslin was jumping out her skin at each shot of the party's
# three gun salute.

She was jonesin' for one of Woody Harrelson's Twinkies, no doubt. ;-)