[Rifle] Which 'Mauser' was used in Boer War?
ltl919
I just borrowed a book on the Boer War in South Africa,
and it mentions that the Boers used 'Mauser' rifles.
Does anyone know what the correct name of the rifle is? Also, is the
chambering 7.92x57mm (8mm Mauser)?
Jombocat
Its the M95 Mauser rifle and carbine. If interested get a back issue on
"winter 95 Fighting Firearms" it a SOF publication that comes out
quarterly. Paul Scarlata, the author, put together an excellent article
that covers the rifle and its use in the Boer Wars. Its titled "Classic
Commando Weapon, Faith in God and the Mauser" Changed and Empire.
J.
kyrie...@aol.com
In article <5io88j$b...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, ltl919 <ltl...@super.zippo.com> writes:
#I just borrowed a book on the Boer War in South Africa,
#and it mentions that the Boers used 'Mauser' rifles.
#Does anyone know what the correct name of the rifle is? Also, is the
#chambering 7.92x57mm (8mm Mauser)?
Model 1895's, chambered for the 7x57. A number of these Mauser rifles could not be delivered to the Orange Free State owing to the progress of the War, and were diverted to the Chilean contract.
Such may be identified by the marking "O. V. S.".
Regards,
Kyrie
st...@grove.ufl.edu
# I just borrowed a book on the Boer War in South Africa,
# and it mentions that the Boers used 'Mauser' rifles.
# Does anyone know what the correct name of the rifle is? Also, is the
# chambering 7.92x57mm (8mm Mauser)?
The 8mm Mauser cartrage was adopted by the German military in 1903 and
did not enter large-scale production until 1905. As the Boer war
lasted from 1899-1902, neither the 8mm round not the Model 1898 Mauser
which was to chamber it saw any action in South Africa.
The Boers used the 7mm (7x57mm) Mauser cartrage and any military or
sporter rifle chambering it which they could scrounge. These included
the model =8C95 O.V.S. (Orange Free State in Dutch) Mauser which was
identical to the =8C95 Chilean Mauser, the Plesier Mauser or Plesier
Geweer, a sporting rifle made by Mauser on a 1993 =B3Spanish=B2 Mauser
action design. Also used was a short Mauser carbine based on the
model =8C95 with a turned down bolt handle called the Model 1896.
The accuracy of the Mausers, the flat trjectory and good penetration
of the 7mm round when combined with the open terrian and defensive
tactics of the Boers cost the British dearly. Britain shortly
therafter developed a high velocity small bore round (the .276
Enfield) which they probably would have adopted had not WW I demand
made a change in caliber impossible.
This often happened in after wars when one side recognised the
superiotity of the other's weapons (the US Army adopting their first
repeating rifle, the Krag, after US calvary armed with single shot
springfield rifles was defeated by the Indians armed with Winchester
repeating rifles at Little Big Horn, and the US adopting the 1903
Springfield (a Mauser copy) after the Rough Riders and 10th Negro
Calvary took such a beating by the Spanish and their '93 Mausers at
the battle of San Juan Hill in Cuba).
The Boers also used a strange cartrage with all dimesnions identical
to the 7x57 but wuth a shorter neck. The overal cartrage length
varied from 73 to 74mm and it was called the =B3short-neck=B2 mauser.
It chambered and fired in a 7x57 chamber but caused a number of
problems including split cases. This strange ammo was manufacuted by
the Belgians, French, and Dutch amoung others. Little is known of it.
It was also rumored to have been used by the military of Montenegro.
One should keep in mind that the world largely sided with the Boers
and against British imperialism. Many nations sent =B3trainers=B2 and
military attaches and aid to the Boers including the U.S..
Mike
Eor on Crack
In <5ipg5s$g...@xring.cs.umd.edu> kyrie...@aol.com writes:
#
#In article <5io88j$b...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, ltl919
<ltl...@super.zippo.com> writes:
#
##I just borrowed a book on the Boer War in South Africa,
##and it mentions that the Boers used 'Mauser' rifles.
##Does anyone know what the correct name of the rifle is? Also, is the
##chambering 7.92x57mm (8mm Mauser)?
#
# Model 1895's, chambered for the 7x57. A number of these Mauser
rifles could not be delivered to the Orange Free State owing to the
progress of the War, and were diverted to the Chilean contract.
#
#Regards,
#
#Kyrie
Kyrie, my understanding is that along with 1895 short rifles, there are
also Orange Free State marked 1896's made by DWM and Loewe. Also, are
the Chilean overmarked guns 1895's or 1896's?
At least that's what some of my books indicate.
Mortalis
st...@grove.ufl.edu
#
# The Mauser 8mm "J" was adopted in 1888. The "J" round remained in
# service until 1905, when the slightly larger (.318 vs. .323) "S" round
# was introduced. The case dimentions remained the same from the 1888
# round. While the Boers did indeed use the 7mm, it is totally possible
# for there to have been 8mm Mausers there as well....in point of fact,
# the 8x57 significantly predates the 7x57.
#
# John
John, You are indeed correct. The designation for the old Model 88
cartrage was indeed also 7.9x57. But neither it nor the Commission Model
88 were designed nor built by Mauser. The origional poster asked about
Mauser Rifles and the "7.9x57 Mauser cartrage". Paul Mauser was not
consulted on the design of the rifle which added some Mauser-like features
to what was basically a Mannlicher design and none of these rifles were
ever produced by Mauser. All Mausers built from 1888 1898 were in various
7.65mm designs as well as 7mms (after '92). When the Model 98 was adopted
by the German Army in April of '98 (Mauser's first use of the "J" cartrage
which had no relation to Mauser for the first decade of its existance) the
guns all went to fill orders from the German Army and production was
initially slow. Thus I doubt any of the early '98 Mausers firing the "J"
cartrage were available for the Boer war. By the time Mausers were being
produced in large quantities and available to other countries, the various
"S" cartrages (actually designed by Mauser or with imput from Mauser) had
replaced the "J" cartrage.
There _may_ have been some Commission Model 88 rifles in South Africa at
the time, but the Comission Model 88 is not a Mauser. It is sloppy to call
the "J" cartrage "Mauser", especially before '98, but calling the
Commission Model a "Mauser" is just plain wrong . . .
Mike
aeat...@flash.net
In <5io88j$b...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, ltl919 <ltl...@super.zippo.com> writes:
#I just borrowed a book on the Boer War in South Africa,
#and it mentions that the Boers used 'Mauser' rifles.
#Does anyone know what the correct name of the rifle is? Also, is the
#
The Boers used M93's and M95's in 7mm Mauser (7x57). Also .450-577
Martini-Henry's.
Alan E. Atwood
Gary Chambers
kyrie...@aol.com wrote:
:
: Model 1895's, chambered for the 7x57. A number of these Mauser rifles could not be delivered to the Orange Free State owing to the progress of the War, and were diverted to the Chilean contract.
: Such may be identified by the marking "O. V. S.".
:
: Regards,
:
: Kyrie
Wasn't there a second, smaller batch of rifles, sent to the
Transvaal
Republic in South Africa, and marked accordingly?
GC
Jung Paek
aeat...@flash.net wrote:
#In <5io88j$b...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, ltl919 <ltl...@super.zippo.com> writes:
##I just borrowed a book on the Boer War in South Africa,
##and it mentions that the Boers used 'Mauser' rifles.
##Does anyone know what the correct name of the rifle is? Also, is the
##chambering 7.92x57mm (8mm Mauser)?
##
#
#The Boers used M93's and M95's in 7mm Mauser (7x57). Also .450-577
#Martini-Henry's.
#
#Alan E. Atwood
#
I think it was .577-450 not .450-577.
KYRIEELLIS
In article <5j1dnk$3...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, gcha...@gpu4.srv.ualberta.ca
(Gary Chambers) writes:
# Wasn't there a second, smaller batch of rifles, sent to the
#Transvaal
#Republic in South Africa, and marked accordingly?
I have heard this, but have never seen one and know no one who has. But
that doesn't mean they don't exist :-)
Regards,
Kyrie
Susan C.
aeat...@flash.net wrote:
#In <5io88j$b...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, ltl919 <ltl...@super.zippo.com> writes:
##I just borrowed a book on the Boer War in South Africa,
##and it mentions that the Boers used 'Mauser' rifles.
##Does anyone know what the correct name of the rifle is? Also, is the
##chambering 7.92x57mm (8mm Mauser)?
##
#The Boers used M93's and M95's in 7mm Mauser (7x57). Also .450-577
#Martini-Henry's.
#Alan E. Atwood
The Orange Free State also purchased numbers of the Model 1885 Guedes
Single Shot Rifle as used by Portugal that were manufactured by Steyr
of Austria. Although they were 8mm I am not sure that they were for
the Portugese cartridge and may have been for the Mannlicher cartridge
for all I know. Individuals also brought their personal weapons to
the fray and I have seen photos that had Winchester lever actions and
a Remington Rolling block in them.
The Boers made extensive use of captured British arms also. Besides
the Martini-Henrys there were Sniders and Lee Metford Magazine rifles
and Carbines.