Just how good do some guys shoot .308 at 1000 yards?
dgust...@dnco.org
1000 yards, with .308 win?
Thanks,
--Dan
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sharps_shooter
dgust...@dnco.org wrote:
# Im just curious, what kind of groups do good shooters get in
competetion at
# 1000 yards, with .308 win?
I've seen Palma Team shooters turn in cleans w/ high X count from prone
with Iron Sights at 1000. Pretty remarkable actually.
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Before you buy.
Dan Gustafson
count" mean? I understand the X ring is the smallest ring on the target,
but the part about "cleans" I cant understand. It is really remarkable for
anybody to hit the x ring at 1000 yards, I will have to try it. What group
size do they end up with, including all the shots they fired at one target?
Thanks,
--Dan
sharps_shooter <sharps_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8ugv6q$p2m$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu...
> ...
Tesla
World record at the time...
Tesla
stoatman
adjustment), prone, sling supported.
And I have score cards to prove it.
john....@whispergraphics.com
National Match M-14 and Issue ammo. God I loved it. I especially like
shooting long distances. I am no National Champion, but even at my first
match (with never having fired the darn gun before in my life, I had just
been issued it that week and not gotten the chance to practice) I hit every
round at 1000 yards. I had a few X's but most rounds were in the 7, 8 and 9
rings. I was actually just looking at taht first X-Ring match book the
other day thinking back and enjoying the memories.
John F. Freund
Whisper Graphics
"The Second Amendment is in place in case they ignore the others."
The Skeptic
sharps_shooter <sharps_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
# In article <8ugins$nud$1...@xring.cs.umd.edu>,
# dgust...@dnco.org wrote:
# # Im just curious, what kind of groups do good shooters get in
# competetion at
# # 1000 yards, with .308 win?
#
# I've seen Palma Team shooters turn in cleans w/ high X count from
prone
# with Iron Sights at 1000. Pretty remarkable actually.
#
IIRC, the aiming black is ...42 inches? and goes down to the 7 ring.
Done it a few times and my .308 groups using Sierra 190-grainers at
barely enough speed to stay supersonic were usually 2 MOA for elevation
and between 2 and 4 MOA for windage, depending on conditions and my
ability to read the wind. Prone, iron sights, sling and a non-fancy
shooting jacket. That was for 20-round strings.
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Before you buy.
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FBC3
simply state a gorup size. Fred
Ed Lee
answered for those of us that are not familiar with this kind of
shooting. We don't know what the size, in inches, of these thousand
yard targets is. Thanks for any further info.
Ed
Douglas Skalitzky
Dan Gustafson wrote in message ...
#For somebody like me who doesn't compete, what does "turn in cleans w/high
x
#count" mean? I understand the X ring is the smallest ring on the target,
#but the part about "cleans" I can't understand.
It means all rounds for record were 10's or X's, thus the shooter didn't
drop any points. Some day I hope to do this. The X count breaks ties.
Doug S.
Milwaukee, WI USA
John Kepler
Okey Dokey! While the other replies ARE more appropriate and accurate. The
simplified answer for those Palm Beach County-types is around 12"!
John
> ...
S. R. Sheffield
> ...
a MOA is a minute of angle which is ABOUT 1 inch at 100 yards or 2
inches at 200 yards, etc. At 1000 yards a MOA is about 10 inches.
sine if one minute of angle times the distance down range.
SRS
Ernst Ottenbacher
lesen:
#Long range shooting sounds like fun, but the question still hasn't been
#answered for those of us that are not familiar with this kind of
#shooting. We don't know what the size, in inches, of these thousand
#yard targets is. Thanks for any further info.
V Bull (inner 5) =16" black
Bull (5) =24" black
Inner (4) =48" black
Magpie (3) =72" white
Outer (2) =96" white
Hit (1) = 118" x 70" white
Gruss
Ernst
Ernst Ottenbacher
#Funny, but most replys are MOA and number ring mumbo-jumbo. Nobody wants to
#simply state a gorup size. Fred
Thi influence of wind and weather is to great to state any group size.
Just simple aiming at the center of the target would not make a hit.
It´s longrange! ;-)
Bob Holtzman
1 MOA= _approx_ 1" per 100 yds. Therefore _approx_ 10" @ 1000 yds
> ...
--
Bob Holtzman
"If you think you're getting free lunch
......check the price of the beer!"
FullAuto
#Long range shooting sounds like fun, but the question still hasn't been
#answered for those of us that are not familiar with this kind of
#shooting. We don't know what the size, in inches, of these thousand
#yard targets is. Thanks for any further info.
#
#Ed
#
Wow, I can't believe that someone hasn't enswered this already!
The center of a 1000 yard target (the 10 ring) is 20" in diameter.
http://www.palma.org/USA/basics.htm
Eric Williams
#
# Im just curious, what kind of groups do good shooters get in competetion at
# 1000 yards, with .308 win?
I shoot at a monthly "tactical" match, which goes from 200 to 1000 yards
using field equipment -- no benches or shooting jackets, but we do use
optical sights and bipods. We use B27 sillhouette targets. I pulled
targets for one guy who is a sniper instructor at a bay area LE agency.
His .308 group was a little high at 1000 yards, all three were head
shots. Group size was maybe 6 inches. These are cold shots, no
spotters are allowed in the match.
Jeff/addesign
#Long range shooting sounds like fun, but the question still hasn't been
#answered for those of us that are not familiar with this kind of
#shooting. We don't know what the size, in inches, of these thousand
#yard targets is. Thanks for any further info.
The High Power Rule book from the NRA will have all target dimensions
for 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 and the 800-900-1000 yard targets, as well
as "reduced" targets for shooting equivalent MOAs at reduced ranges
(such as the MR-31, which simulates 600yd at 100 yards).
Briefly, the 800-900-1000 has a ten inch X-ring, 20" 10 ring, 30" 9,
44" 8-ring. That covers the aiming black. the white rings are 60" (7)
and 72x72 square for the 6.
For comparison, the 200 yard SR target is
(X) 3", (10) 7" (9) 13" for the black; 19", 25", 31" and 37" for the
white rings 8, 7, 6, 5.
Jeff/addesign
NRA Certified RSO
ISRA,Tuesday Night Irregular Rifles, High Power League
Rodman S. Regier
#Funny, but most replys are MOA and number ring mumbo-jumbo. Nobody wants to
#simply state a gorup size. Fred
It's not a big conspiracy. When shooting at 1000 yards, the shooter
rarely lays hands on their own target because of the logistic
impracticality of the distances involved. You don't normally have the
luxury of shooting a group and having it measured with a ruler or
calipers.
Typically you're dealing with a score on a standard target relayed
from a target marker in the butts, or optical observation of marker
plugs inserted into the holes.
These methods permit you to learn about where the shots fell in
relation to the scoring rings used, but don't give very good data
about actual group size.
Since adjustments for windage and elevation are done by MOA,
that is the other common way shot fall on a target are gaged at such
distances.
Jerry Chaney
#dgust...@dnco.org wrote:
##
## Im just curious, what kind of groups do good shooters get in competetion at
## 1000 yards, with .308 win?
#
I am a pistol shooter, and in fact I don't even own any long guns, so I can't answer your
question. However, I believe that you have asked the wrong group. You should have posed
your question to the GIRLS.
This past August, at the National Matches, Michelle Gallagher won her third Wimbledon Cup.
Her win in that 1000yd match makes her the only competitor since WWII to win three
Wimbledon Cups. She also went on to win the Leech Cup (another 1000yd match) making her
the fourth person since 1878 to win both matches in the same year. In a 10 shot shoot-off
for the win, she fired a 100-7X. She also dominated the 45 round Palma Match (fired at
800, 900, 1000 yd) with a 450-27X, setting a new record. There are 6 matches that make up
the Long Range Championship. Michelle's score of 1443-88X made her the Long Range
Champion. This was her second championship, the first coming in 1998, the year that her
mother was Hi-Power Champion.
Did I mention that she is still a Junior shooter? In 1997, when she won her first
Wimbledon Cup, she was only 16.
Jerry Chaney
London, KY
2000 NRA National Civilian Pistol Champion
tatdrew
1000yds that stayed at 6" In fact looking at the latest FCSA mag the
winners of heavy and unlimited rifle matchs were shooting in the 6"s
with the average group looking to be from 8 to 24 inchs. What kind of
rifle was this fellow shooting?
Eric Williams wrote:
> ...
Bill
If your rifle is a constant '1 MOA' shooter, that's just over 1" at 100
yards.
If you do you part and shoot that same rifle just as good at 1000 yards
the likely group size will be roughly 10" at best, but since the wind
and all ones bad habits act up at that longer range, anything in the 12"
- 18" group size would be respectable. Some have of course done much
better.
As one guy posted the 1000 yard target are something like 42" of black,
the 'X-ring' is smaller then that, the black is sub divided into smaller
circles. X, 9, 8, 7 rings are all in black; X being the center of bull,
7 being near the edge. 42" is mighty big when your right up next to it,
but at 1000 yards it ain't all that big.
42" works out to be roughly 4 moa.
Watching the guys & gals who can do this sort of thing is impressive to
say the least.
Hi-power Scores are listed in "total points-number of X-ring shots", if
I remember correctly. So many points per shot, i.e. a shot in the 7 ring
is 7 points, 8 ring is 8 points, x ring = 10 points, etc, etc. down to 0
for miss
Most matches are not won by the guys / gals who simple hit the black but
by how many they put into the X-ring.
For example a "995-95x" would mean the shooter scored 995 points of
which 95 shots where in the X-ring, Damn fine shooting to say the least.
Hi-power match shooters shot for score - with as many 'x-ring' shots as
possible. Bench rest shooters go for group size. The rest of us just
try and hit the paper...
Bill
fl...@alaska.net
# # Im just curious, what kind of groups do good shooters get in competetion at
# # 1000 yards, with .308 win?
Bart Bobbit, former Palma team member, stated in this NG that good
shooters firing 10- and 20-shot groups can attain under 10" groups at
1000 yards with highpower rifles. He once fired an 800 yard group
measuring 3.325" with his Palma rifle, 155-grain bullets and iron
sights. He admitted this was a fluke, but it still is apparently a
record. Most long range matches don't record group size, only score.
Those who test extensively have a lot more data on group size than
those who "only" shoot matches.
Jay T
The Skeptic
fl...@alaska.net wrote:
# Someone wrote:
#
# # # Im just curious, what kind of groups do good shooters get in
competetion at
# # # 1000 yards, with .308 win?
#
#
For reference, the U.S. "decimal" target has an X-ring of 10 inches,
10-ring of 20 inches, and I think the 9 is 30 and the 8 is 42...but as I
haven't dug out the old record books I have, I can stand by only the 10
and X-ring measurements. They were the only ones I really cared about.
Group sizes, when the shooter calls the wind correctly and/or the winds
are very light (3 mph or less!) for top shooters will be 15 inches or
less. Most of us shot between 20 and 30-inch group sizes.
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