Belgian Browning Auto-5 How old and what's it worth?
WattCJ
mine has. It appears to be an auto-5 in 16 gauge. It is in excellent
condition, with the exception of the rubber but pad which is deteriorating from
age. All of the numbers that I can see match. The receiver is engraved and
the wood is nicely checkered. The receiver is marked "Fabrique Nationale
D'armes De Guerre Herstal Belgique" "Browning Patent Depose". The barrel is
marked with a 16 inside a diamond, which leads me to believe that is a 16
gauge, not a 20 gauge. The serial number is 253XX. Is this shotgun at all
rare? Any info on the age of this piece and an approximate value would be
appreciated.
Thanks,
Chris Watt
. . . . . . . . . .
Info on moderated group rec.guns is at http://doubletap.cs.umd.edu/rec.guns
James & Linda, Rawles
# I'm looking to find out a bit of info on a Belgian Browning that a friend of
# mine has. It appears to be an auto-5 in 16 gauge. It is in excellent
# condition, with the exception of the rubber but pad which is
deteriorating from
# age. All of the numbers that I can see match. The receiver is engraved and
# the wood is nicely checkered. The receiver is marked "Fabrique Nationale
# D'armes De Guerre Herstal Belgique" "Browning Patent Depose". The barrel is
# marked with a 16 inside a diamond, which leads me to believe that is a 16
# gauge, not a 20 gauge. The serial number is 253XX. Is this shotgun at all
# rare? Any info on the age of this piece and an approximate value would be
# appreciated.
I don't have a reference on the date, but I can answer one of your other
questions:
Its value would be degraded by 20% or more by the modification for the
rubber butt pad. (Assuming that it one in which the stock was cut, rather
than a slip-over pad.) Brownings came from the factory with a hard black
rubber (looks like plastic) buttplate. Any modificatioon basicially ruins
the collector's value.
BTW, many of the Belgian 16 gauge auto-5s had 2-5/8 inch chambers. Since
that ammo is hard to find in the States, most have had their chambers
deepened to accept the more common 2-3/4 inch shells. Make sure you check
this before attempting to fire the gun!
Best Regards,
James Wesley, Rawles
Proprietor, Clearwater Trading Company
Free Clearwater Trading Company catalog available. Just send a request
via e-mail, and we will e-mail you our latest catalog.
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"Every man who goes into the Indian country should be armed with
a rifle and revolver, and he should never, either in camp or out
of it, lose sight of them. When not on the march, they should
be placed in such a position that they can be seized at an
instant's warning; and when moving about outside the camp, the
revolver should invariably be worn in the belt, as the person
does not know at what moment he may have use for it."
- Randolph B. Marcy, Captain, U.S. Army, The Prairie Traveler, 1859.
Bite Me
give you the info you requested. In the past for a small fee Brownig will
authenticate the shotgun for you
WattCJ wrote in message <7237qj$a...@xring.cs.umd.edu>...
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from
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Robert Kelly
Thanks Walt!
I appreciate you responding to my post! Very helpful and I like hearing that
I did well with this. Can’t wait to tell the wife.
A little more information…
U.S. Rifle, .30 CALIBER M1, H&R ARMS 46646XX
Wood:
Circle “P” on handgrip
A box with what looks like an eagle and three stars above the eagle.
Front handgrip, no markings I can see, but perfect.
Rear handgrip, no markings and a little scratched, dinged. Nothing major.
I stripped the goo off of the wood using oven cleaner this weekend. Very
messy, but it worked. Did some LIGHT sanding and steel wool-ing. I put
masking tape over the stamp marks. Refinished with spray on polyurethane.
Just kidding, used Tung oil. Buttplate is worn silver. Little finish
remains on front spacer, rear spacer looks good.
Barrel/Receiver Group:
Marked “HRA 06535448 4-53 RS22 *some indescribable mark* M”.
Using the “finger-near-the-chamber-and-held up-to-the-light” method, the
barrel appears to be shiny and clean with no pitting as far as I can see.
Some contact/friction wear (finish is rubbed off) from operating rod.
Gas piston sleeve (correct nomenclature?) is clean and retains most of the
finish. One scratch near front on left side.
Receiver is marked “H&R ARMS CO” 46646XX and on the right side D-6528291
(numbers are spread out. Has newer version of sight, no locking bar. Finish
is excellent.
Operating Rod:
Marked “D35382 9 SA”. Springfield Armory? Ever so slightly different finish
than the rest of the parts. Finish is slightly worn on some of the high
spots. Piston end is pristine. Brings to mind a pool cue.
Bolt:
Marked “D6528287 HRA”, with a script “U” underneath that is bracketed by
dots.
Trigger Group:
I haven’t had it apart. Visible markings are “6528290-HRA” and an “H”
looking thing. The safety is also marked “HRA”. Stamped trigger guard, some
finish is worn off. Hammer is marked “646008-9 SA”. Springfield Armory
again?
Does that help identify the rifle a bit more? I would be happy to give any
other info if not.
Thanks,
Bob K.
Can anyone give any other info regarding this M1?
I would sure appreciate it!
Captain L.D.Sand
#
# mine has. It appears to be an auto-5 in 16 gauge. It is in excellent
# condition, with the exception of the rubber but pad which is deteriorating from
# age. All of the numbers that I can see match. The receiver is engraved and
# the wood is nicely checkered. The receiver is marked "Fabrique Nationale
# D'armes De Guerre Herstal Belgique" "Browning Patent Depose". The barrel is
# marked with a 16 inside a diamond, which leads me to believe that is a 16
# gauge, not a 20 gauge. The serial number is 253XX. Is this shotgun at all
# rare? Any info on the age of this piece and an approximate value would be
# appreciated.
# Chris Watt
Chris, the serial #'s I have for Brownings show this one to have been
built in 1926 and it was built under a pending patent. I'd be really
careful and probably not shoot it without talking to Browning as it's
quite possible it won't take 2 3/4 inch shells. Some of the old
Brownings have to be reworked by Browning as they were originally for
shells just a bit over 2 1/2 inches. I believe they were 2 9/16", but it
could be 2 5/8". The last I remember anyone making those old stubby 16
gauge shells was Peters back in the '50's.
Value could be from around $250.00 to around $500.00, depending on matte
rib or vent rib, VR being higher, and that issue previosly mentioned. If
it'll take the 2 3/4", to the higher side. And, of course the condition.
Should it be A Grade 2, 3 or 4, much higher. Possibly up around $3500.00
if you can find the right collector.
Ordinary_Guy
At 10:23 PM 11/8/98 -0500, Robert J. Kelly wrote:
#
#Thanks Walt!
#
#I appreciate you responding to my post! Very helpful and I like hearing that
#I did well with this. Can't wait to tell the wife.
#
#A little more information...
#
#U.S. Rifle, .30 CALIBER M1, H&R ARMS 46646XX
Early '53, see barrel below.
#Wood:
#Circle "P" on handgrip
Proof.
#A box with what looks like an eagle and three stars above the eagle.
The Defense Acceptance Stamp, the proper cartouche for this '50's
rifle.
#Front handgrip, no markings I can see, but perfect.
#Rear handgrip, no markings and a little scratched, dinged. Nothing major.
No markings expected.
#I stripped the goo off of the wood using oven cleaner this weekend. Very
#messy, but it worked. Did some LIGHT sanding and steel wool-ing. I put
#masking tape over the stamp marks. Refinished with spray on polyurethane.
#Just kidding, used Tung oil. Buttplate is worn silver. Little finish
#remains on front spacer, rear spacer looks good.
Hope you like the result!
#Barrel/Receiver Group:
# Marked "HRA 06535448 4-53 RS22 *some indescribable mark* M".
Harrington & Richardson, D (for D-size drawing) 6535448 (the barrel
drawing no.), April '53, Heat Lot RS-22, the Defense Acceptance Stamp
again, I'll bet, and M(agnaFlux).
#Using the "finger-near-the-chamber-and-held up-to-the-light" method, the
#barrel appears to be shiny and clean with no pitting as far as I can see.
#Some contact/friction wear (finish is rubbed off) from operating rod.
#Gas cylinder is clean and retains most of the
#finish. One scratch near front on left side.
#Receiver is marked "H&R ARMS CO" 46646XX and on the right side D-6528291
Yep, the receiver drawing number.
#(numbers are spread out. Has newer version of sight, no locking bar. Finish
#is excellent.
The original fitment.
#Operating Rod:
#Marked "D35382 9 SA". Springfield Armory? Ever so slightly different finish
Springfield, Nov '43 to Feb '45 with curved side, Jan-Sept '45 with
flat side. Cut or uncut (see Scott Duff's FAQ for the explanation)?
#than the rest of the parts. Finish is slightly worn on some of the high
#spots. Piston end is pristine. Brings to mind a pool cue.
The piston, gas cylinder, gas cylinder lock & gas cylinder lock screw
are all stainless steel.
#Bolt:
# Marked "D6528287 HRA", with a script "U" underneath that is bracketed by dots.
Made by Underwood(-Elliot-Fisher) for H&R.
#Trigger Group:
#I haven't had it apart. Visible markings are "6528290-HRA" and an "H"
Trigger housing drawing number.
#looking thing. The safety is also marked "HRA". Stamped trigger guard, some
#finish is worn off. Hammer is marked "646008-9 SA". Springfield Armory again?
Yep, except the first character is "C," for C-size drawing. Dash 9s
ran from April to Sept '45.
#Does that help identify the rifle a bit more? I would be happy to give any
#other info if not.
You've done a very complete job!
#Thanks again for your knowledgeable information,
I hope it helps.
#Bob Kelly
Best regards,
Walt
The Ordinary_Guy
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