1917 Enfield bore diameter?
Red Owl
Enfield in 30-06 caliber was a result of modifying the P14 in
.303 Brit. caliber for U.S. use in WWI, that the P17 was simply rechambered
from .303 Brit. to 30-06 and that the 5-groove barrel is suppost to
be .311 groove diameter rather than .308 groove diameter that is
standard for 30-06. I slugged the barrel on my 1917 Remington
barrel with a 6-18 date code and discovered that it is about .308
groove diameter.
Question to someone knowledgeable about the 1917 Enfield: Were all
1917 Enfield barrels rebored from .303 Brit. to 30-06 or was there
a transition to newer barrels of .308 bore diameter after a certain date?
I'm curious that since my P17 barrel is dated 6-18, that maybe by that time
in WWI, Remington may have been using a new .308 bore diameter barrel. Any
answers to my question would be appreciated either to this message board
or to red...@my-Deja.com Thanks!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can learn about rec.guns at http://doubletap.cs.umd.edu/rec.guns
Ken Marsh
If you read Dunlap or one of the older, authoritative gunsmith sources,
you'll find that the documented 1917 bore size is a smaller bore than
Springfields! The Modification from P14 to M1917 involved a complete
retooling for the barrel as well as changes for the rimless feed.
Remington was in charge of the whole deal and they certainly knew how to
make a .30-06 right. They had a convince a dubious War Dept that was
fully convinced of the 1903's superiority. They did it based not only on
a faster 2 month retooling time, but test samples the submitted were
MORE accurate than typical 1903's. If the Gov't had its way they would
have retooled for 6 months and made 1903's.
I've never heard of a .311" M1917... it might be possible, but I never
heard of it and neither did Roy Dunlap. Personally I think whoever
spouted this factum was blowing wind. The difficulty of reading a
five-groove bore might have something to do with it...
In general a box-stock M1917 is more accurate than a box-stock M1903...
sacriledge to some, but it takes careful bedding of the 1903 to get it
to shoot, most were only 4MOA out of the box. Nowadays it is rare to run
into the Cult of 1903 but in the old days, the Cult was strong and took
every oppurtunity to piss on its competitors.
The only "problems" with the M1917 were the WEIGHT and the cock-on-closing,
if that is really a problem. It served us well in WWI in numbers roughly
twice that of the 1903. A nice 1903 has a glassy-smooth action, though,
can't be beat in that regard (except maybe by a Springfield Krag :).
Ken.
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Mail: kmarsh at charm dot net | Using a computer should not
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Tom Prince
I recently acquired a very good + Valmet shotgun.
My scouring of the internet has not turned up much information.
I was able by pictures on the auction pages to determine it is likely a
Valmet 412 serial number 8276, 12 ga, 26" O/U; there is a large lion
ingraved with "Valmet" under it on both sides of the receiver. The receiver
has plummed or was some type of steel that "blued" this way, etc. From the
Tikka page, I see the same design as a "512"; perhaps, Valmet sold the
rights or something.
Can anybody help me?
Tom, Finnish firearms fan
McKinney TX
Jack Carnahan
#Hi, Red Owl,
#
#Your informant is, well, uninformed.
#
#All US Rifles, Model of 1917, were Cal..30 (.30-'06), with .300" bore and
#.308" groove diameter.
Actually, as the Woodchuck already quoted from Hatcher, the grove "dia" is
.310" as the groves are .005" deep. The bores are actually "tighter" than a
1903 because of the form and number of groves.
Jack
#
#Think about it for a minite. If the barrels were rechambered .303" Brit
#Pattern 14, where did the rim recess go?
#
#How does nonsense such as this propagate?
#
#Best regards,
#
#Walt Kuleck
#Fulton Armory Webmaster
#http://www.fulton-armory.com -- Now! On-line Ordering!!
#*Everything* for the AR-15, M1 Garand, M14/M1A and M1 Carbine!
#Author of "The AR-15 Complete Owner's Guide"
#
#
#> From: Red Owl <red...@my-Deja.com>
#> Newsgroups: rec.guns
#> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:12 AM
#> Subject: 1917 Enfield bore diameter?
#>
#>
#> > I have read messages saying that because the U.S. Model of 1917
#> > Enfield in 30-06 caliber was a result of modifying the P14 in
#> > .303 Brit. caliber for U.S. use in WWI, that the P17 was simply
#rechambered
#> > from .303 Brit. to 30-06 and that the 5-groove barrel is suppost to
#> > be .311 groove diameter rather than .308 groove diameter that is
#> > standard for 30-06. I slugged the barrel on my 1917 Remington
#> > barrel with a 6-18 date code and discovered that it is about .308
#> > groove diameter.
#> >
#> > Question to someone knowledgeable about the 1917 Enfield: Were all
#> > 1917 Enfield barrels rebored from .303 Brit. to 30-06 or was there
#> > a transition to newer barrels of .308 bore diameter after a certain
#date?
#> > I'm curious that since my P17 barrel is dated 6-18, that maybe by
#thattime
#> > in WWI, Remington may have been using a new .308 bore diameter barrel.
#Any
#> > answers to my question would be appreciated either to this message board
#> > or to red...@my-Deja.com Thanks!
#
#--
#C&R FFL LIST: http://www.shelfspace.com/~c-r-ffl/
#
Pete
#
From the
# Tikka page, I see the same design as a "512"; perhaps, Valmet sold the
# rights or something.
#From a review of Tikka products in Gun Mart, April 2000, comes this:
"a classy Tikka over and under shotgun - the 512 - which is a direct
descendant of the Valmet 412 shotgun. This is a good looking and well
balanced gun, which has the unique advantage of being able to transform
into a combination shotgun/rifle or double rifle at the change of a
barrel set."
HTH
Pete
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
pete....@virgin.net
www.the-proof-reader.co.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LIBERTY & LIVELIHOOD - Have you registered yet?
www.march-info.org
Walter J. Kuleck, Ph.D.
Your informant is, well, uninformed.
All US Rifles, Model of 1917, were Cal..30 (.30-'06), with .300" bore and
.308" groove diameter.
Think about it for a minite. If the barrels were rechambered .303" Brit
Pattern 14, where did the rim recess go?
How does nonsense such as this propagate?
Best regards,
Walt Kuleck
Fulton Armory Webmaster
http://www.fulton-armory.com -- Now! On-line Ordering!!
*Everything* for the AR-15, M1 Garand, M14/M1A and M1 Carbine!
Author of "The AR-15 Complete Owner's Guide"
# From: Red Owl <red...@my-Deja.com>
# Newsgroups: rec.guns
# Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:12 AM
# Subject: 1917 Enfield bore diameter?
#
#
# > I have read messages saying that because the U.S. Model of 1917
# > Enfield in 30-06 caliber was a result of modifying the P14 in
# > .303 Brit. caliber for U.S. use in WWI, that the P17 was simply
rechambered
# > from .303 Brit. to 30-06 and that the 5-groove barrel is suppost to
# > be .311 groove diameter rather than .308 groove diameter that is
# > standard for 30-06. I slugged the barrel on my 1917 Remington
# > barrel with a 6-18 date code and discovered that it is about .308
# > groove diameter.
# >
# > Question to someone knowledgeable about the 1917 Enfield: Were all
# > 1917 Enfield barrels rebored from .303 Brit. to 30-06 or was there
# > a transition to newer barrels of .308 bore diameter after a certain
date?
# > I'm curious that since my P17 barrel is dated 6-18, that maybe by
thattime
# > in WWI, Remington may have been using a new .308 bore diameter barrel.
Any
# > answers to my question would be appreciated either to this message board
# > or to red...@my-Deja.com Thanks!