Swedish Mauser (Types)

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Pig Eye Jackson

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Jan 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/27/96
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As many of you know, I fool around with these old Swedish Mausers. My
current collecting goal is to get all of the available types. I have
compiled the following list of different types that I believe to be a
complete:

1894 Carbine (I presume all these were Oberndorf-is this correct?)

1896 Long Rifle - Oberndorf

1896 Long Rifle - Carl Gustav

1938 Short Rifle (st. bolt) - Carl Gustav (shortened 1896)

1938 Short Rifle (st. bolt) - Oberndorf (shortened 1896-anyone seen one
of these?)

1938 Short Rifle (bent bolt) - Husqvarna (bent bolts)

1941 Sniper's Rifle (could be Oberndorf or Carl Gustav-right?)

Leaving out the 1896's that had target sights installed, and the
so-called "unfinished 1941 Sniper's Rifles" offered by Ellison's, have
I left any Swedish Mauser types out?

Obviously, I've also not included the M40's (8x63mm Kar. 98k) that were
bought from Germany.

Later.

Mortalis
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Dave

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Jan 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/27/96
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In article <4edi1n$g...@xring.cs.umd.edu>,
mort...@ix.netcom.com (Pig Eye Jackson ) wrote:
#
#As many of you know, I fool around with these old Swedish Mausers. My
#current collecting goal is to get all of the available types. I have
#compiled the following list of different types that I believe to be a
#complete:
#
#. . . . have I left any Swedish Mauser types out?
#. . . .

#Mortalis

Morty -

I have an 1938 Short Rifle (st. bolt, bent bolt handle) - HUSQVARNA
VAPENFABRIK AKTIEBOLAG, 1942, all numbers match. I think this should be added
to you list of desirables.

nyla...@becalm.enet.dec.com

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Jan 28, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/28/96
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In article <4edi1n$g...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, mort...@ix.netcom.com (Pig Eye Jackson ) writes...

#
#As many of you know, I fool around with these old Swedish Mausers. My
#current collecting goal is to get all of the available types. I have
#compiled the following list of different types that I believe to be a
#complete:
#
#1894 Carbine (I presume all these were Oberndorf-is this correct?)
#

There were Gustav M1894's. Sweden didn't stop making the M1894 when the
M1896 came out. The M1894 was made at least into the 'teens. I have seen
a Gustav M1894 Carbine, with a date around 1915 or 1916. Could have had it
cheap, but it was a real junker.

#1896 Long Rifle - Oberndorf
#
#1896 Long Rifle - Carl Gustav
#

As I posted to this newsgroup a few weeks ago, I saw and handled a 1943 (or so)
Husqvarna M1896 long rifle, and have not ever been able to figure it out.

The obvious suspicion is that it was one of the "never-quite-finished"
M1941's. However, ALL the small parts were numbered (with an odd serial number
that had a slash in the middle), and they all matched, which does not fit the
profile of a rifle that got part-way through conversion and then sat in storage
for many years until someone got around to assembling it in recent times (which
is what Ellison's "unfinished Sniper's rifles are" -- sniper recievers, bolts,
and barrels, with stock and small parts put on later).

Wish I knew what it was.....

#1938 Short Rifle (st. bolt) - Carl Gustav (shortened 1896)
#
#1938 Short Rifle (st. bolt) - Oberndorf (shortened 1896-anyone seen one
# of these?)

Yes, I saw one, last year at a gun show. 1899-manufactured Oberndorf
shortened to M1938, straight bolt.

Like a complete idiot, I did not buy it. Probably will never see one
again......

#1938 Short Rifle (bent bolt) - Husqvarna (bent bolts)
#
#1941 Sniper's Rifle (could be Oberndorf or Carl Gustav-right?)

Could also be Husqvarna -- they apparently long-barreled some Husqvarna
recievers to make M1941's.

#
#Leaving out the 1896's that had target sights installed, and the
#so-called "unfinished 1941 Sniper's Rifles" offered by Ellison's, have
#I left any Swedish Mauser types out?
#

There were at least two (2) major variations on the "target rifle" sights.
There may be others.

One, which I suspect MAY be commercial from it's features, has a large
heavily-fluted elevation adjustment knob, mounted on a horizontal axis, with
detents in the action, which adjusts the elevation by tilting the aperture,
changing it's angle relative to the front sight; and a small windage
adjustment knob, with detents; and the rear peep aperture sits out in the
open, exposed.

The other, which I suspect MAY be military, has a large knurled elevation
adjustment knob, mounted on a vertical axis, with a smooth no-backlash action
with no detents, which adjusts the elevation by moving the whole rear
aperture up and down on a threaded post; and a large windage adjustment knob
with no detents; and the rear peep aperture sits under a very heavy forged or
milled steel arch, which protects it from the sides and the top.

Earl Battey

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Jan 29, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/29/96
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I picked up a M96/38 today that I didn't see in your list. I'd be interested
in any info you or anyone else can give. It's a 1913 Gustav (obviously
originally a M96) that has been converted to the M38 configuration including a
bent-bolt. All parts are matching and the bore is excellent (bright, shiny,
and passes the "bullet in muzzle" test). Serial number is HK 3237XX.

The stock disc is marked rather unusually, there is an indention in the barrell
description over BOTH the number 1 and 2. Likewise, under the bore measurement
numbers (2 3 4 5 on top of disc, 9 0 1 on bottom) there is in indention over
BOTH the 9 and 0. Got any ideas what the double stamping would mean?

Rifle has very nice condition blond colored wood. Metal condition is good,
with color the same throughout (not quite a patina, but worn a bit).

I picked up a muzzle cap, bayonet, leather sling, and front sight hood for it
as well. Got about $150 in it all.

Earl

Kurt Davis

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Jan 30, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/30/96
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:1941 Sniper's Rifle (could be Oberndorf or Carl Gustav-right?)

I thought that these were Husky ask well since they were made in the
1940's....not sure.

What about the target guns that Degennaro and Sarco have with the semi-
pistol grips and bull barrels and micrometer aperature sights?

-Kurt


KROH

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Jan 30, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/30/96
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In article <4edi1n$g...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, mort...@ix.netcom.com (Pig Eye
Jackson ) writes:

#
#1894 Carbine (I presume all these were Oberndorf-is this correct?)
#

#
I just bought at a show this week-end in Ft. Lauderdale a M-94 carbine
Carl Gustaf 1901. Unfortunately I sold it yesterday at the same show.
{8^(} I'd sure like to geet one of these and KEEP it!
Dennis Kroh, Empire Arms


Dan Burden

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Jan 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/31/96
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In article <4edi1n$g...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, mort...@ix.netcom.com (Pig Eye
Jackson ) wrote:

# As many of you know, I fool around with these old Swedish Mausers. My
# current collecting goal is to get all of the available types. I have
# compiled the following list of different types that I believe to be a
# complete:
#
# 1894 Carbine (I presume all these were Oberndorf-is this correct?)
#
# 1896 Long Rifle - Oberndorf
#
# 1896 Long Rifle - Carl Gustav
#
# 1938 Short Rifle (st. bolt) - Carl Gustav (shortened 1896)
#
# 1938 Short Rifle (st. bolt) - Oberndorf (shortened 1896-anyone seen one
# of these?)
#
# 1938 Short Rifle (bent bolt) - Husqvarna (bent bolts)
#
# 1941 Sniper's Rifle (could be Oberndorf or Carl Gustav-right?)
#
# Leaving out the 1896's that had target sights installed, and the
# so-called "unfinished 1941 Sniper's Rifles" offered by Ellison's, have
# I left any Swedish Mauser types out?
#
...

My-2-cents:

I think that you forgot two very common models:
1896 short rifle (straight bolt) carbine (mounted, or artillery troops)
Carl Gustav or Oberndorf (Husquavarna???)
1896 short rifle (turnded-bolt) carbine (mounted troops)
Carl Gustav and perhaps, Oberndorf and Husquavarna

Lets list all of the variants too! If we get a full list lets load it up
to the net. BTW: the long-rifle are usually caled rifles, the
short-rifles are usually called carbines. Lud Olson's Mauser Bolt Action
Rifles (Brownell Press) lists the manufacturers by variant, I , however,
do not have my copy here with me. Happy Shooting. -Dan
*****************************************************************************


JJFreeman

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Jan 31, 1996, 3:00:00 AM1/31/96
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The target rifles from DeGennaro generally are "reconstructed" Shooter's
Union rifles, using all original Gustav M96 rifles from around 1911
imported by Century (98-99% condition with matching SN including the
stocks, perfect bores) and with his addition of the Swedish mfd. pistol
grip and Elite 101 Diopter sights. The latter are similar to the Anschutz
target sights as used in the FN 30/11 sniper rifle, or Anschutz match
rifles, but without a large cone at the rear site to occlude vision. Both
front and rear sight elements use replaceable apertures, rather than
adjustable ones. He also leaves the original M96 rear sight in place (the
front is replaced by the Globe type site that is part of the Elite Diopter
system). The Elite sights come with scales calibrated for the pickskytte
(pointed bullet) ammunition to 600 meters; the original rifle sights are
for the older ball type, to 1200+ meters. Accuracy of these rifles is
considered excellent. The Elite sights and pistol grip are not military
issue, but are Swedish Shooters Union (military reserve and commercial
match) standard. The trigger also is grooved with a checkered trigger
guard.

The sights are in true NIB condition, and DeGenarro provides a translation
of the instructions for their use. The rifles have a few minimal wood
dings and slight minimal areas of surface discoloration in small areas of
bluing so they are not really NIB, but at about 98-99%. The bores, bolts,
trigger groups, etc., however, are perfect.

I have not seen the Sarco, but they sound like the ones that used the M63
heavy target stock and an M96 action, possibly with an original (to the
rifle) GF rear sight. Presumably these are in 6.5x55, but a number of
these rifles were made and imported to the US in .308 as well. The GF
rear site probably was standard military. Many shooters were said to
dislike GF sights due to the sensitive and fragile rack and pinion
adjustment mechanism, and to have replaced them with others like the Elite
for that reason. If they do use that M63-96 setup, the original military
rear sight usually is found inside the stock in a cavity BELOW the barrel.

One comment about DeGennaro as a dealer. His prices aren't the cheapest
in the market place, but his grading of quality is absolutely accurate and
on the conservative side, and his knowledge of the guns is supurb, as is
his honesty as a businessman.


Vernon Stilwell

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Feb 3, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/3/96
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eba...@ionet.net (Earl Battey) wrote:

#I picked up a M96/38 today that I didn't see in your list. I'd be interested
#in any info you or anyone else can give. It's a 1913 Gustav (obviously
#originally a M96) that has been converted to the M38 configuration including a
#bent-bolt. All parts are matching and the bore is excellent (bright, shiny,
#and passes the "bullet in muzzle" test). Serial number is HK 3237XX.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Would you mind explaining the "bullet in muzzle test" ? I missed
that, I'm new to the group, and have recently purchased an M96
Swedish Mauser myself. I'm trying to clean all the "gook" off, and
an help with this piece would be appreciated!
Thank you,
--Vern


--Vern
ver...@kvnet.org


Stephani36

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Feb 4, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/4/96
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Vern,

To check if the bore is shot out, many people try dropping a bullet down
the muzzle. If it falls thru, or can be inserted fully easily, the barrel
is shot out.

With Swedish Mausers there's a much better way. See that brass disk? It
has the rifle's bore diameter on it. It also has the bore condition in the
small "pie wedge" labeled 1, 2, 3. No arrow means a perfect bore, 1 is
good, 2 is fair, 3 is poor.


EBattey

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Feb 6, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/6/96
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It's simply placing a bullet (of the rifles calibre) tip first into the
rifles muzzle. This is a crude (allbeit generally effective) means of
establishing whether the bore has been shot out or if the muzzle has been
damaged by impropper cleaning methods. If the bullet drops all the way
down to the cannelure - bad bore. If it only drops partially into the
bore - that's good. Like I said, this is crude. A burr in a shot-out
barrell could deceive this test. However, its worked for me and is more
field expedient that carring around a bunch of bore gauges. I use this
method for every milsurp I purchase.

Earl


nyla...@becalm.enet.dec.com

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Feb 7, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/7/96
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In article <4f1lqk$a...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, steph...@aol.com (Stephani36) writes...
#Vern,
#
#To check if the bore is shot out, many people try dropping a bullet down
#the muzzle. If it falls thru, or can be inserted fully easily, the barrel
#is shot out.
#
#With Swedish Mausers there's a much better way. See that brass disk? It
#has the rifle's bore diameter on it. It also has the bore condition in the
#small "pie wedge" labeled 1, 2, 3. No arrow means a perfect bore, 1 is
#good, 2 is fair, 3 is poor.
#

Although I sometimes really do wonder how far to trust those disks.

I had a Swede Mauser that had no disk; just a socket in the buttstock where
the disk should have been (and probably once was).

I found a source for these disks, bought a "1" disk, and put it on. Now my
Swedish Mauser is complete.

I'm happy with the bore on the rifle, but is it really a "1"? I have no
idea......

Are there many other rifles out there with haphazardly applied
disks (like the one I completed with a "1" disk)? I have no idea.

At one show, I pointed out to a dealer that the rifle he was selling had a
"3" disk. His response was "You could just get a '1' disk and put it in;
I have plenty of those kicking around".

Caveat emptor.......


Earl Battey

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Feb 9, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/9/96
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#Caveat emptor.......
#
Amen, not only that but the disk COULD be authentic, only that "1" barrell
when the disk was put on 50 years ago may not be a "1" anymore.

Earl

Svante Wendel

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Feb 16, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/16/96
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nyla...@becalm.enet.dec.com wrote:

[snip]

=>#1941 Sniper's Rifle (could be Oberndorf or Carl Gustav-right?)

=>Could also be Husqvarna -- they apparently long-barreled some Husqvarna
=>recievers to make M1941's.

The sniper rifle was made from specially selected m/96's, made by
Mauser, Carl Gustaf and Husqvarna. They used three different scopes,
the German-made ZF Ajack 4x90 m/41 and the Swedish-made AGA 3x65 m/42
and AGA 3x65 m/44. These rifles are _very_ accurate. If it wasn't for
the caliber, which no longer is used by the Swedish armed forces, they
could still be used today, as modern rifles aren't more accurate than
these..... As a matter of fact the last m/41's were withdrawn from
reserve units as late as last year.

There is also a m/41B with different open sights. It can be easily
recognized by looking at the muzzle. If the last 1/2 inch of the
barrel is threaded (for accepting a device used when shooting blanks)
it is a m/41B.

=>#
=>#Leaving out the 1896's that had target sights installed, and the
=>#so-called "unfinished 1941 Sniper's Rifles" offered by Ellison's, have
=>#I left any Swedish Mauser types out?
=>#

=>There were at least two (2) major variations on the "target rifle" sights.
=>There may be others.

There were several different variations.

[snip]

There is a very good book about the Swedish Mausers (and other Swedish
rifles) available. It's in German and might be hard to find, but it's
good. It includes a wealth of information about the mausers, including
copies of manuals, spare parts lists and so on.

The title of the book is "Die leichten schwedischen Infanteriegewehre
Armee und Heimwehr". The author is Carsten Schinke and it was
published by "Journal-Verlag Schwend GmbH" in 1990. I'm sorry but I
don't have any ISBN number.

--
Svante Wendel - wen...@kuai.se - wen...@wendel.se
Visit my unofficial Royal Swedish Army web page at
http://www.kuai.se/%7Ewendel/home2.html
-- Every country has an army, their own or someone else's --

rcm...@idir.net

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Feb 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/17/96
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In article <4g2v9b$g...@xring.cs.umd.edu>,
wen...@wendel.se (Svante Wendel) wrote:
#nyla...@becalm.enet.dec.com wrote:
#
#[snip]
#
#=>#1941 Sniper's Rifle (could be Oberndorf or Carl Gustav-right?)
#
#=>Could also be Husqvarna -- they apparently long-barreled some
Husqvarna
#=>recievers to make M1941's.
#There is also a m/41B with different open sights. It can be easily
#recognized by looking at the muzzle. If the last 1/2 inch of the
#barrel is threaded (for accepting a device used when shooting blanks)
#it is a m/41B.
#

RE:
The answer might be fairly obvious to most, but for the life of me, I
can't think of a single logical reason to use a "Blank Adaptor" on a
bolt action Mauser.

Is it to operate the action, like on a gas or recoil operated
semi-auto? :) :) :)

If not, then what would be the reasoning to make or use one?

I would rather think the threaded muzzle might have been used for a
cleaning rod guide, or perhaps a snow/mud cover, or even some sort of
early rifle grenade launcher, or anything besides a useless blank
adaptor on a bolt action rifle.

rcm...@idir.net

Svante Wendel

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Feb 17, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/17/96
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At 05.52 1996-02-17 GMT, rcmodel wrote:
=>In article <4g2v9b$g...@xring.cs.umd.edu>,
=> wen...@wendel.se (Svante Wendel) wrote:
=>>nyla...@becalm.enet.dec.com wrote:
=>>
=>>[snip]
=>>
=>>=>#1941 Sniper's Rifle (could be Oberndorf or Carl Gustav-right?)
=>>
=>>=>Could also be Husqvarna -- they apparently long-barreled some
=>Husqvarna
=>>=>recievers to make M1941's.
=>>There is also a m/41B with different open sights. It can be easily
=>>recognized by looking at the muzzle. If the last 1/2 inch of the
=>>barrel is threaded (for accepting a device used when shooting blanks)
=>>it is a m/41B.
=>>
=>
=>RE:
=> The answer might be fairly obvious to most, but for the life of me, I
=>can't think of a single logical reason to use a "Blank Adaptor" on a
=>bolt action Mauser.
=>
=>Is it to operate the action, like on a gas or recoil operated
=>semi-auto? :) :) :)
=>
=>If not, then what would be the reasoning to make or use one?
=>
=> I would rather think the threaded muzzle might have been used for a
=>cleaning rod guide, or perhaps a snow/mud cover, or even some sort of
=>early rifle grenade launcher, or anything besides a useless blank
=>adaptor on a bolt action rifle.

I don't "think" what it is for, i KNOW what it is for.....

The blanks used by the Swedish armed forces (and a number of other
countries as well) are made just like ordinary "live" ammo except for
the bullets which are made out of wood (in the case of 5.56 mm NATO,
6.5 mm Swedish Mauser and 7.62 mm NATO) or plastic (in the case of 9
mm). These wooden "bullets" or plugs are painted red in order to
clearly distinguish between live and blank ammo. If used without any
adaptor they would be lethal out to a distance of 10 to 15 meters so
an adaptor is used, fastened to the muzzle of the gun. Either screwed
onto threads made especially for that purpose, such as on the Mausers,
or replacing the flash suppressor of modern rifles such as the AK4
(H&K 91) or AK5 (FN-FNC). These adaptors pulverize the wooden or
plastic plug.....

The blanks use the same brass as the "live" ammo with a slightly
weaker powder charge.

(I'm serving as an officer with the Swedish equivalent of the National
Guard, and have used these Mauser sniper rifles many times, including
using them with blanks.)

KROH

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Feb 18, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/18/96
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In article <4g4kk9$j...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, rcm...@idir.net
(rcm...@idir.net) writes:

# The answer might be fairly obvious to most, but for the life of me, I
#can't think of a single logical reason to use a "Blank Adaptor" on a
#bolt action Mauser.
#
#
The blanks they used weren't really blank, but contained a wooden bullet.
The adapter "caught" this wooden bullet upon firing and turned it into
sawdust so that no one downrange would get hurt.
Dennis Kroh, Empire Arms (and Mauser specialist)


Mats T Persson

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Feb 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/20/96
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#In article <4g2v9b$g...@xring.cs.umd.edu>,
# wen...@wendel.se (Svante Wendel) wrote:
##nyla...@becalm.enet.dec.com wrote:
##
##[snip]
##
##=>#1941 Sniper's Rifle (could be Oberndorf or Carl Gustav-right?)
##
##=>Could also be Husqvarna -- they apparently long-barreled some
#Husqvarna
##=>recievers to make M1941's.
##There is also a m/41B with different open sights. It can be easily
##recognized by looking at the muzzle. If the last 1/2 inch of the
##barrel is threaded (for accepting a device used when shooting blanks)
##it is a m/41B.
##
#
#RE:

# The answer might be fairly obvious to most, but for the life of me, I
#can't think of a single logical reason to use a "Blank Adaptor" on a
#bolt action Mauser.
#
#Is it to operate the action, like on a gas or recoil operated
#semi-auto? :) :) :)
#
#If not, then what would be the reasoning to make or use one?
#
# I would rather think the threaded muzzle might have been used for a
#cleaning rod guide, or perhaps a snow/mud cover, or even some sort of
#early rifle grenade launcher, or anything besides a useless blank
#adaptor on a bolt action rifle.
#
#rcm...@idir.net
#

#
The threads at the muzzle was used for a blank firing device.
There is a cleaning rod guide, but it doesn't use the treads.
Rifle grenades was never used.

The reason to use blank adaptors on a bolt action rifle is that
the Swedish Army use blanks with wooden bullets.
Before the blank firing device was introduced, and the barrels of
parts of the stock of the m/96 and m/38 rifles was threaded,
it was not allowed to fire blanks at live targets at closer
range than 25 m.
These rifles with treaded barrels was denoted m/96 B and m/38 B.

However the m/41 (B) never had a threaded muzzle, and it was not
allowed to use blanks in these rifles.

The main differences between the m/41 and m/41 B rifles was:

Geva"r m/41 Geva"r m/41 B

Bolt: Metal finish. Blue (or brown).

Open sight: Same as m/96 "SM sikte m/55"
(ramp sight). (with a sight knob).

Scope: m/41 Ajack 4x90 m/41 B ,an improved m/41
or m/42 AGA 3x65 (a "B" stamped on the left
or m/44 ??. side, behind "1941").

Scope mount: Not tempered, with Tempered, and with an
a number of its own, adjusting bolt for the
matching numbers on position of the scope,
both parts. same number as the rifle
on both parts.

Sling: Same as m/96. Sling with loop, marked
with the three crowns and
the text "G m/41 B".

Ref. SoldI Mtrl 1963. and
Ett skott en tra"ff; Ulving, S. Arvidsson, P.


The m/41 (B) was made out of m/96 rifles that was picked for
there accuracy.
About 5300 was made between 1941 and 1943.

It seems like the m/41 B was made both by modifying m/41 rifles
and by making them directly out of m/96 rifles. Because on
some m/41 B one can see, that the part of the scope mount with
the adjustment bolt, have been welded on to the part with the
dovetail.

The m/41 B is, by far, the most common today.

The m/41 (B) is not longer in service, the last units to use
this (excellent) weapon was "Hemva"rnet", (I guess that would be
something like "the home guard" in English).
During 1995 the Home guard had to return their m/41 (B)
sniper's rifles, they were replaced by scoped Ak4 assault rifles
(H&K G3). In my opinion this swap must be on of the worst things
one can do to a sniper!

With just small modifications like changing the stock to a CG63
or CG80 stock with semi pistol grip, and fixing the dovetail of
the scope mount with Loctite, I believe that the m/41 B still is
a fairly good sniper's rifle.


Mats Persson


Dan Burden

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Feb 20, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/20/96
to
(rcm...@idir.net) wrote:

# In article <4g2v9b$g...@xring.cs.umd.edu>,


# wen...@wendel.se (Svante Wendel) wrote:
# #nyla...@becalm.enet.dec.com wrote:
# #
# #[snip]
# #

# #=>#1941 Sniper's Rifle (could be Oberndorf or Carl Gustav-right?)
# #
# #=>Could also be Husqvarna -- they apparently long-barreled some
# Husqvarna
# #=>recievers to make M1941's.
# #There is also a m/41B with different open sights. It can be easily
# #recognized by looking at the muzzle. If the last 1/2 inch of the
# #barrel is threaded (for accepting a device used when shooting blanks)
# #it is a m/41B.
# #
#
# RE:


# The answer might be fairly obvious to most, but for the life of me, I

# can't think of a single logical reason to use a "Blank Adaptor" on a

# bolt action Mauser.
#

# Is it to operate the action, like on a gas or recoil operated

# semi-auto? :) :) :)
#

# If not, then what would be the reasoning to make or use one?


#
# I would rather think the threaded muzzle might have been used for a

# cleaning rod guide, or perhaps a snow/mud cover, or even some sort of
# early rifle grenade launcher, or anything besides a useless blank
# adaptor on a bolt action rifle.
#
# rcm...@idir.net


Friend:

Please don't jump on (flame) someone unless you have a more legitimate
(i.e., information) contribution to the news group. The original poster
was correct: Yes, the muzzle was threaded, but, INMHO, primarilly for the
muzzlebreak/flash supressor. Additionally, there is a blank adaptor also
which screws on to the muzzle. The blank adaptor is a hole-filled steel
cup-like deal that screws on the muzzle and has a catch to snap over the
front sight base. The purpose of the thing was to ostensibly contain any
fragments from the blank. The cleaning rod guide for the Swedish mauser
slides over and locks behind the front sight base. All of the ones that I
have seen (and own) work with threaded and non-threaded muzzles. I have
heard speculation about a grenade launcher, but I have not seen one.
Thanks. -Dan


S.O. Wendel

unread,
Feb 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/21/96
to
Den 20 Feb 1996 22:35:05 -0500 skrev djbu...@iastate.edu (Dan Burden) :

[snip]

=>Please don't jump on (flame) someone unless you have a more legitimate
=>(i.e., information) contribution to the news group. The original poster
=>was correct: Yes, the muzzle was threaded, but, INMHO, primarilly for the
=>muzzlebreak/flash supressor. Additionally, there is a blank adaptor also
=>which screws on to the muzzle. The blank adaptor is a hole-filled steel
=>cup-like deal that screws on the muzzle and has a catch to snap over the
=>front sight base. The purpose of the thing was to ostensibly contain any
=>fragments from the blank. The cleaning rod guide for the Swedish mauser
=>slides over and locks behind the front sight base. All of the ones that I
=>have seen (and own) work with threaded and non-threaded muzzles. I have
=>heard speculation about a grenade launcher, but I have not seen one.

a) The Swedish Mauser models m/96, m/38 and m/41 with their subdivisions
m/96B, m/38B and m/41B, have never had a flash suppressor/muzzle brake. The
threads are for the blank adaptor ONLY. (And not all the rifles have the
threads).

b) The cleaning rod guide/bayonet holder sits under the barrel (the bayonet
has a hollow steel handle and actually goes over the protruding end of the
cleaning rod. The thing that you mistake for some kind of cleaning rod
guide is the protective cover for the front sight. Made out of stamped
steel it protects the front sight while at the same time eliminating
unwanted reflections. It was made in atleast two different versions,
locking behind the front sight.

c) There was no grenade launcher for the Swedish Mauser.

Ordinary Guy

unread,
Feb 21, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/21/96
to
On Feb 17, 1996 08:19:05 in article <Re: Swedish Mauser (Types)>,
'rcm...@idir.net (rcm...@idir.net)' wrote:


#
#I would rather think the threaded muzzle might have been used for a
#cleaning rod guide, or perhaps a snow/mud cover, or even some sort of
#early rifle grenade launcher, or anything besides a useless blank
#adaptor on a bolt action rifle.

Folks,

The reason you might want a blank adaptor is to ensure that live ammo is
not used when blanks are intended. Could ruin someone's day (e.g., Bruce
Lee).

I am not saying that that's the reason; it's only a hypothosis.

BTW, Gun Parts Corp offers a muzzle cap for those threaded Mauser Barrels.
Rifles of the World (DBI Books) mentions the use of a muzzle brake (note
correct spelling) with certain Carl Gustav-modified short rifles.

Hope this doesn't add to the confusion.

Regards,

Walt
Not a Mauser Expert

Chris Roper

unread,
Feb 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/22/96
to
On 21 Feb 1996, S.O. Wendel wrote:

# a) The Swedish Mauser models m/96, m/38 and m/41 with their subdivisions
# m/96B, m/38B and m/41B, have never had a flash suppressor/muzzle brake. The
# threads are for the blank adaptor ONLY. (And not all the rifles have the
# threads).

What are the "flash suppressors" that are being sold for the swedish
mauser m/96? I have been thinking of buying one from Sarco Inc. and I
was under the impression that they were military surplus, not
after-market frills.

Also, Does anyone know of sources and prices for swedish mauser bayonets?

Thanks for any information!

=============================================================================
Chris Roper ro...@daytona.tunl.duke.edu (or ro...@tunl.duke.edu)
Duke University TUNL
Durham, NC 27708-0308 "A foolish consistency is
the hobgoblin of little minds" RWEmerson
=============================================================================


Alexander Eichener

unread,
Feb 22, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/22/96
to
wen...@wendel.se (S.O. Wendel) wrote:
#Den 20 Feb 1996 22:35:05 -0500 skrev djbu...@iastate.edu (Dan Burden) :
#
#=>was correct: Yes, the muzzle was threaded, but, INMHO, primarily for the
#=>muzzlebraka/flash supressor.

Our Swedish poster has corrected this already:
#a) The Swedish Mauser models m/96, m/38 and m/41 with their subdivisions
#m/96B, m/38B and m/41B, have never had a flash suppressor/muzzle brake.

Whereas the (very rare and much-coveted) M 39 rifle (basically, a Kar 98k
for the almost unique Swedish machine gun cartridge 8 x 63 rimless) did
have a muzzle brake. What I have read suggests that all remaining M 39 rifles
were sold to Isreal after WW II, where they were stripped of their muzzle
brakes, and often converted to .308 Win. What a loss !

Regards,
Alexander Eichener
aeic...@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de

Anonymous Bosh

unread,
Feb 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/23/96
to
In <4gi44g$f...@xring.cs.umd.edu> Alexander Eichener
<aeic...@aixterm1.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> writes:

#Whereas the (very rare and much-coveted) M 39 rifle (basically, a Kar
98k
#for the almost unique Swedish machine gun cartridge 8 x 63 rimless)
did
#have a muzzle brake. What I have read suggests that all remaining M 39
rifles
#were sold to Isreal after WW II, where they were stripped of their
muzzle
#brakes, and often converted to .308 Win. What a loss !
#
#Regards,
#Alexander Eichener
#aeic...@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de

My research (such that it is) confirms what you've reported about
Israeli sales of the German Kar. 98k rifles in 8mm Bofors. I would
guess they were all rebarrelled to .308 Win. Since they were built in
Germany, I would assume they were not marked any differently than other
German 98k's.

One of the regular posters here says he has a friend who has a military
Carl Gustaf in 8mm. Have no other details about the rifle.

Mortalis
--
******************************************************************************
For years, pro-Second Amendment rights advocates have argued that the governmental
assault on the Second Amendment was only the first step in an outright assault on the
entire Bill of Rights.

Welcome to 1996 and the Telecommunications Bill.

Jwrawles

unread,
Feb 23, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/23/96
to
RE:
#On 21 Feb 1996, S.O. Wendel wrote:

## a) The Swedish Mauser models m/96, m/38 and m/41 with their
subdivisions
## m/96B, m/38B and m/41B, have never had a flash suppressor/muzzle brake.
The
## threads are for the blank adaptor ONLY. (And not all the rifles have
the
## threads).

#What are the "flash suppressors" that are being sold for the swedish
#mauser m/96? I have been thinking of buying one from Sarco Inc. and I
#was under the impression that they were military surplus, not
#after-market frills.

#Also, Does anyone know of sources and prices for swedish mauser bayonets?

The flash suppressors are U.S. made. They are not very well made, IMHO. I
also am very leery of Sarco. I've havd numerous bad experiences with Sarco
in the past. In contrast IMA (listed below) is a very reputable outfit.

BTW, I sell threaded muzzle protectors, slings, stripper clips, and
various ammo for Swedish Mausers. I am currently out of Swedish bayonets,
but I've heard that IMA has some still in stock.

Here are some sources for various Swedish Mauser goodies:

Muzzle protectors, flash hiders:
Mr. Hoffman (804) 823-6314

Front sight hoods:
Gun Parts Co. (914) 679-5849

Bayonets, Arctic action covers, bayonet throgs:
International Military Antiques (IMA)
(908) 953-9333

Regards,

Jim Rawles, Proprietor The obligatory quote...
Clearwater Trading Co. "Our liberty is protected
c/o P.O. Box 2289 by four boxes...
Orofino, Idaho [83544] The ballot box, the jury box
voice: (208) 476-4440 the soap box, and the cartridge box"
e-mail: Jwra...@aol.com - Anonymous

Let me know if you'd like my updated and expanded catalog of
shootable antique guns (primarily pre-1899 production "No FFL"
Mausers and Winchesters), books, gun accessories (mainly clips and
magazines), ammunition, backpacks, tents, sleeping bags, waterproof
gun/gear cases, and coins. (Due to AOL e-mail length restrictions,
you'll get the catalog in two parts.) You can also now read my new
shareware novel, The Gray Nineties. It is piece of speculative survival

fiction about a socio-economic collapse and its aftermath. Hard copies
are *NOT* available, but you can download a soft copy of the entire
text
of the Second Edition free of charge from the NEW web site at:
http://www.teleport.com/~ammon/gn/cover.htm

Chuck Griffiths

unread,
Feb 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/24/96
to
# One of the regular posters here says he has a friend who has a military
# Carl Gustaf in 8mm. Have no other details about the rifle.
#
# Mortalis

Yep, that be me. I'm still trying to get him to dig it out ( he has the
entire invantory of his family gunshop (now closed) in his personal
collection-- some 400+ rifles.

The 8x63 Mauser is a "friendship" gift given him by a frendly ( is their
anothr kind?) Swede during a rifle competition in the 1970s.

I'll post the details after I see the thing. Probably April.


--
Animal Rights advocates recommend sterilization to prevent over-population.
Wouldn't it be great if Welfare Rights advocates felt the same way?


S.O. Wendel

unread,
Feb 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/24/96
to
Den 23 Feb 1996 13:09:24 -0500 skrev mort...@ix.netcom.com (Anonymous
Bosh) :

=>In <4gi44g$f...@xring.cs.umd.edu> Alexander Eichener
=><aeic...@aixterm1.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> writes:
=>
=>#Whereas the (very rare and much-coveted) M 39 rifle (basically, a Kar
=>98k
=>#for the almost unique Swedish machine gun cartridge 8 x 63 rimless)
=>did
=>#have a muzzle brake. What I have read suggests that all remaining M 39
=>rifles
=>#were sold to Isreal after WW II, where they were stripped of their
=>muzzle
=>#brakes, and often converted to .308 Win. What a loss !
=>#
=>#Regards,
=>#Alexander Eichener
=>#aeic...@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de
=>
=>My research (such that it is) confirms what you've reported about
=>Israeli sales of the German Kar. 98k rifles in 8mm Bofors. I would
=>guess they were all rebarrelled to .308 Win. Since they were built in
=>Germany, I would assume they were not marked any differently than other
=>German 98k's.

Swedish rifles were stamped with a crown and the initials of the proofing
officer (all military weapons have been tested before issue since times
immemorial in Sweden). The rifles exported to Israel were remarked with the
Star of David, some of them have appeared on the market in Germany.

=>One of the regular posters here says he has a friend who has a military
=>Carl Gustaf in 8mm. Have no other details about the rifle.

Strange. I've never heard of any Carl Gustaf in 8mm. All the m/39 (cal
8x57JS) and m/40 (cal 8x63) were made by Mauserwerke. And, according to my
information they were all exported to Israel and rebarrelled to .308.

So I very much doubt that he has a _military_ Carl Gustaf in 8mm. It could
be a civilian (hunting or competition) rifle in 8x57JS which for a while
was a popular hunting caliber. Remember that both Carl Gustaf and Husqvarna
also made civilian rifles, including rifles for shooting clubs and the
like. The "Shooting Club Movement" ("Skarpskytterörelsen") was very active
and had lots of members and lots of competitions. Much of the organized
militia ("Landsstormen", later "Hemvärnet") was recruited among the members
of the shooting clubs, from the early 1800's and on.

--
Svante Wendel - wen...@kuai.se - wen...@wendel.se
Visit my unofficial Royal Swedish Army web page at
http://www.kuai.se/%7Ewendel/home2.html

Alexander Eichener

unread,
Feb 24, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/24/96
to
mort...@ix.netcom.com (Anonymous Bosh) wrote:
#In <4gi44g$f...@xring.cs.umd.edu> Alexander Eichener
#<aeic...@aixterm1.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> writes:
## What I have read suggests that all remaining M 39 rifles
##were sold to Isreal after WW II, where they were stripped of their
##muzzle brakes, and often converted to .308 Win. What a loss !
#
#guess they were all rebarrelled to .308 Win. Since they were built in
#Germany, I would assume they were not marked any differently than other
#German 98k's.

I have seen the photograph of one M 39 in Carsten Schinke's (German) book
on Swedish infantry rifles, and I think it bears specific markings. Would
have to look it up again.

Regards,
Alexander Eichener

Alexander Eichener

unread,
Feb 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/26/96
to
wen...@wendel.se (S.O. Wendel) wrote:
#
#Swedish rifles were stamped with a crown and the initials of the proofing
#officer (all military weapons have been tested before issue since times
#immemorial in Sweden). The rifles exported to Israel were remarked with the
#Star of David, some of them have appeared on the market in Germany.

The m/40 receiver pictured in Carsten Schinke's book has the initials of
inspection (rather than "proofing" ?) officer GB (G. Bjo:renstam ?). Wouldn't
the Israeli rifles rather bear a "zadik" than a star of David ? I have seen
a Carcano Moschetto TS 38 in 8 x 57 IS which bore both markings.

#=>One of the regular posters here says he has a friend who has a military
#=>Carl Gustaf in 8mm. Have no other details about the rifle.
#
#Strange. I've never heard of any Carl Gustaf in 8mm.

I own a civilian Husqvarna sporter conversion (receiver made in 1943, military
crown stampings on all major parts) in 8 x 54 Krag-Jo|rgensen. Two kind posters
whom I wish to thank here in public (Mats T. Persson and Odd Haavard Skevik) have
already supplied tips for reloading and/or contacting Swedish gunshops
(Norvegian Aaserud I have already tried, without luck) - could you help me
by indicating another source for ammo in that caliber ?

#All the m/39 (cal 8x57JS) and m/40 (cal 8x63) were made by Mauserwerke. And, >according to my information they were all exported to Israel and rebarrelled
#to .308.

Svente was just too kind to point out my inordinate mixing of the m/39 and of
the m/40 explicity, but his above lines make quite clear where my error lies.
Thank you for the welcome correction.

Oh, another strange piece which I possess: a m/41 sniper's sling and several
m/96 slings with unmistakably East Asian paint markings (Chinese or Japanese
characters). What could that mean ? Singapore police ?

Regards,
Alexander Eichener
aeic...@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de

Alexander Eichener

unread,
Feb 26, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/26/96
to
Alexander Eichener <aeic...@ix.urz.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
#I have seen the photograph of one M 39 in Carsten Schinke's (German) >book on Swedish infantry rifles, and I think it bears specific markings.

As I wrote just before in rec.guns, these were the inspection officer's
markings, GB (his initials). Maybe all those lucky possessors of
converted Israeli Kar 98k could have a close look at their guns - they
might actually own one of these very rare m/39 and m/40 Swedish
Mausers...

Regards,
Alexander Eichener

Mats T Persson

unread,
Feb 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/27/96
to
Just some remarks on the issue of muzzle brake/flash suppressor on
Swedish Mausers.

The sole reason for threaded muzzles on the m/96 B and m/38 B
was to attach a blank firing device.
However - there is a flash suppressor for a different gun,
that actually fits on the m/96 B and m/38 B.
It's the flash suppressor of "Inskjutningsvapen 5110",
which is a modifyed Ag m/42 (Ljungman) in 7,62 NATO,
used as a coax gun on the 9cm recoilless gun "Pvpj 1110".
This flash suppressor is 95mm long with 5 longitudinal slots,
and is secured by a metal band with a screw, much like a hose clip.


And then, the story about the m/39 rifle, as I've heard it.

In 1939 Sweden bought 5000 "Brno" LMG's, in the German Army
calibre 8x57IS, from Germany (designated Kg m/39 in Sweden).
(This is basicly the same design as the British "Bren Gun".)
At the same time Sweden also bought limited numbers of German
"Kar 98k" Mausers (designated Geva"r m/39 in Sweden), so that
all soldiers in a LMG-squad could use the same ammo.

The "Kg m/39" which had a quick release barrel,
son got new ones in 6,5x55.
The camber of the m/39 rifle was reamed to accept the 8mm m/32
machine gun cartridge (8x63 , 8mm Bofors), additionally a muzzle
brake was fitted. These (rearly seen) rifles was renamed m/40
and was issued to - yes you guessed right - soldiers in
MMG-squad's who used this (quite powerful) cartridge in their MG.

I don't think it's very likely that Carl Gustaf (or Husqvarna)
made rifles in any of the 8mm calibres for the Swedish Army.
They did, at least Husqvarna, make a lot in 8x57IS for the
civilian market.

Two things that usually means that a gun is civilian is;
the lack of the initials of an inspection officer in front
of the serial number,
and the lack of the notch on the left side of the receiver.


Mats Persson


KROH

unread,
Feb 27, 1996, 3:00:00 AM2/27/96
to
In article <4ggmgt$b...@xring.cs.umd.edu>, wjku...@usa.pipeline.com
(Ordinary Guy) writes:
#
#The reason you might want a blank adaptor is to ensure that live ammo is
#not used when blanks are intended. Could ruin someone's day (e.g., Bruce
#Lee).

Sorry, but it was BRANDON LEE that was killed on a movie set when a blank
round pushed a bullet that was lodged in the barrel into his abdomen from
10 feet away (it wasn't a "live" round). His father BRUCE LEE died of a
stroke in Hong Kong before Brandon was even born. {8^(}
Dennis Kroh, Empire Arms


bobn...@gmail.com

unread,
May 19, 2019, 1:51:10 PM5/19/19
to
I have a Carl Gustafson 1915. Not sure of model. S/N 335735. But it seems to have been converted
for sniper. Front and rear sites upgraded. Rear sights are marked Traffb. At and H V. Also on the
stock is a specification plate for distance. Did they make a sniper variation.

RosemontCrest

unread,
Jun 5, 2019, 8:36:06 AM6/5/19
to
Unless it was converted to a m/38, you have a m/96. m/38 barrels are 24"; m/96 barrels
are 29.5". Some rifles had sights changed for target shooting, usually by civilians.
A real sniper rifle is a m/41 or m/41B and is a m/96 with notable accuracy that was
fitted with a side-mount scope base and a scope.

You may learn more here: http://dutchman.rebooty.com/

luc4...@gmail.com

unread,
Jan 16, 2020, 7:27:03 PM1/16/20
to
Hi I have a 1901Carl Gustavsson military issue complete with bayonet shoulder strap.

RosemontCrest

unread,
Jan 17, 2020, 9:12:53 AM1/17/20
to
On 1/16/2020 4:27 PM, luc4...@gmail.com wrote:
# Hi I have a 1901Carl Gustavsson military issue complete with bayonet shoulder strap.

A wealth of information may be found here:

http://dutchman.rebooty.com/

I find this forum to be very helpful:

https://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?49-Swedish-Military-Firearms-Forum

Enjoy your Swede.


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