Reloads for the 460 Weatherby Magnum?
Peter Gnanapragasam
Does nayone here reload for the 460 Weatherby Magnum? Specifically looking
for loading data with IMR 4350 and Norma MRP for a 500gr. Has anyone hit
2700 fps with any reload recipies?
TIA
PG
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nord...@yahoo.com
# for loading data with IMR 4350 and Norma MRP for a 500gr. �Has anyone hit
# 2700 fps with any reload recipies?
I suspect you are just about on your own when it comes to reloading
the big Weatherby. The cartridge has a nasty reputation for recoil
that is both sharp and heavy. For real world experience you may want
to check with folks in the more specialized forums at sites such as
www.accuratereloading.com or www.24hourcampfire.com
Louis Boyd
# Hi:
#
# Does nayone here reload for the 460 Weatherby Magnum? Specifically looking
# for loading data with IMR 4350 and Norma MRP for a 500gr. Has anyone hit
# 2700 fps with any reload recipies?
Even with 141 grains case capacity the 460 Wby is short on case capacity
to shoot 500 grain bullets that fast. At SAAMI max pressures Quickload
can only show about 2560 fps with flat base jacketed RN bullets at
SAAMI OAL You might squeeze a little more by shallow seating. Velocity
peaked with a 24" barrel. No, I don't load 460 Wby. I do load 50 BMG
and trust Quickload to to be close on large bore cartridges.
I had a thought and tried again and was able to get Quickload to show
2716 fps by using moly coated bullets and a 32" barrel. Barrel
friction is considerable in big bore rifles. That took 98.1 grains of
Winchester 760 right at SAAMI max pressure. No other powder would break
2700 although 100.5 grains of VV-N550 was second. at 2695 fps. That
with Hornady RNs at SAAMI OAL.
Disclaimer !!! I am NOT recommending any the above loads. Just to show
what it might take to get 2700 fps out of a 460 Wby.
Peter Gnanapragasam
Weatherby used to load the 460 Wby at one time to these speeds but have
since backed off their loads to make it more "manageable".
The indiexing for IMR and Hogdon powders are inaccurate in Quick Load which
should be worked over. IMR 4350 should be able to breech the 2700 fps mark
and stay within the 65,000 SAMMI limit. If you look at the Hornady manual
#2 they have a load for the 460 WbyM going at 2650 fps but this according
the QLoad is way way over the SAMMI limit. You would have to back down the
the 2400 fps mark to get a safe load for the powder.
Looking at Qload Norma MRP should be able to do 2700 fps with a compressed
load but none of the manuals have any data for Norma MRP (26" bbl). But due
to the fact Qload seems a little off with the Hornady and Hogdon data I
would like to have some idea of expected speeds from first hand experience.
As for the IMR 4350 load again, I would like to know if the loads are safe
to use out of the Hornady manual or has there been a change to the IMR
powder since that would make it unsafe.
Thanks for the tip regaring the VV powder.
PG
Peter Gnanapragasam
<nord...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hgorqr$o20$1...@news.albasani.net...
## Does anyone here reload for the 460 Weatherby Magnum? Specifically
#looking
# # for loading data with IMR 4350 and Norma MRP for a 500gr. Has anyone hit
# # 2700 fps with any reload recipies?
#
# I suspect you are just about on your own when it comes to reloading
# the big Weatherby. The cartridge has a nasty reputation for recoil
# that is both sharp and heavy. For real world experience you may want
# to check with folks in the more specialized forums at sites such as
# www.accuratereloading.com or www.24hourcampfire.com
#
The recoil of the 460Wby is over-rated. The fact is that its recoil is very
manageable - with the break is on. It is just a fairy-tale told to scare
little childrean so that they don't grow up and put hair on their chests :).
I am only 5' 4" and own and shoot a few big bores so I don't see why most
people would have any problems shooting these.
Hotload
<pet...@shaw.ca> wrote:
> ...
My 36 year old Hornady reloading manual (Vol II) lists as a MAXIMUM LOAD
a 500gr. RN at 2650 FPS using 123.6gr of IMR 4350.
That's from a Weatherby Mark V with a 26" barrel, and Federal 215
primers
Work up carefully!
[MODERATOR: 500gr at ... how fast? That is OWWW fast.]
nord...@yahoo.com
# # that is both sharp and heavy. �
#
# The recoil of the 460Wby is over-rated. �The fact is that its recoil is very
# little childrean so that they don't grow up and put hair on their chests :).
# I am only 5' 4" and own and shoot a few big bores so I don't see why most
# people would have any problems shooting these.
There are two kinds of people in the world, those who admit they are
affected by recoil and those who don't If the recoil of the 460 was
imaginary you wouldn't be proving your hairy-chestedness by shooting a
rifle with a muzzle brake. So what's the recoil like without the
brake? How does your PH and his trackers - especially the poor SOB
who gets to hold your shooting sticks - like your braked 460? What's
the fastest you're run your 500 gr slugs into dangerous game? How did
they perform? What problem are you trying to solve by going faster?
Not even the wild-eyed bigbore nuts who hang out at Accurate Reloading
run their 460s @ 2700 http://www.accuratereloading.com/460wmag.html
and they've been known to shoot rifles that make the Weatherby look
wimpy. You can find some anonymous posters who claim to have obtained
and even wildly exceeded the performance you seek
http://www.reloadersnest.com/detail.asp?CaliberID=161&BulletWeight=500&LoadID=519
or http://www.reloadersnest.com/unverified_detail.asp?CaliberID=161&ID=3245
but on the internet you get what you pay for. Of course firms who
have to stand behind their data (and who actually measure the pressure
of their loads) are much more conservative
http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/PerCaliber2Guide/Rifle/Standarddata(Rifle)/458Cal(11.63mm)/460%20Weatherby%20Magnum%20page%20341.pdf
Good luck to you.
Long Ranger
# Hi:
#
# Does nayone here reload for the 460 Weatherby Magnum? Specifically
# looking
# for loading data with IMR 4350 and Norma MRP for a 500gr. Has anyone hit
# 2700 fps with any reload recipies?
#
# TIA
# PG
Check the forum at Beartooth Bullets. There is always someone there with
some wisdom.
Kevin(Bluey)
> ...
You should read Johm (Pondoro )Taylors book , African Rifles and
Cartidges , regarding velocity of large projectiles in hunting rifles.
No need for such speed.
--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."
Alex Cunningham
#<nord...@yahoo.com> wrote:
## Does anyone here reload for the 460 Weatherby Magnum? Specifically
#looking
# # for loading data with IMR 4350 and Norma MRP for a 500gr. Has anyone hit
# # 2700 fps with any reload recipies?
#
# I suspect you are just about on your own when it comes to reloading
# the big Weatherby. The cartridge has a nasty reputation for recoil
# that is both sharp and heavy. For real world experience you may want
# to check with folks in the more specialized forums at sites such as
# www.accuratereloading.com or www.24hourcampfire.com
#
I reload for my two .300 Weatherby Mk. IV's and given my experiences with
their recoil (even wearing a Past shoulder pad) I would not be too eager to
push a .460 anywhere beyond what the regular reloading manuals tell you.
The 22nd edition of, The Weatherby Guide lists a MAXIMUM load of 126gr IMR
4350 and a 500gr bullet for a claimed velocity of 2707 fps in a 26" barrel.
That gives you a breech pressure of, 55.130 PSI.
It also specifies that only M215 magnum primers be used for all .460 loads.
The one MAXIMUM loading I can find for, Norma MRP is the Hornady (third
edition) manual offering of 126.8gr and a 500gr bullet for a claimed
velocity of 2550 fps.
Remember, these are MAXIMUM loads and should be carefully worked up to.
My shoulder hurts just thinking about the walloping these loads would give
it. ;-)
--
Cheers!
Alex.C
There are twelve million sheep in Ontario.
Problem is nine million of them think they are people.
Peter Gnanapragasam
I never the 460 would not kick and it does, but it is very manageable - it
does take technique and practice over a period of time. I have been
shooting big bores for awhile. That said I have often seen and heard
individuals scaring off others by over exaggerating the recoil of the big
bores rifles. There are those want to try out the rifle but with all the
anticipation of the big kick and built up nervousness they limp wrist the
rifle in the end and get spooked for good. Others are just put off by the
exaggerated anecdotes that they don't even try it. The hair on the chest
comment was merely in jest but makes my point (see smiley face). "Try it
you might like it" but work up to the big bores in stages.
I have brought many persons, co-workers and friends into shooting sports.
Once they get walked through the safety and basic shooting stuff and squeeze
of a few rounds many are hooked on shooting. The others are at least a
little friendlier to "gun nuts" and have an appreciation for shooting. And
no, I do not recommend a newcomer to the sport to shoot a 460 either. But
given some time (practice, technique and skill) I believe most people can
shoot these rifles.
As for a breaked 460 Wby, that is for shooting and working up loads. You
don't begrudge me using a break to work out a few loads ?? That is what
many individuals do with these rifles due to the amount of rounds which
would be fired per sitting. Many use a shoulder pad, muzzle break, Hg
dampeners, Pb sleds, weighted bags or a combination for shooting session
such as this. Obviously these are not 375 H&Hs which one can shoot through
20 rounds in a single sitting. Obviously one would hunt without the break
on but once a load has been worked out you will need to practice off hand
shooting with them. I shoot them once a week off handed.
As for speed and my desire to drive a 500gr over a Chrony to is no different
from one who drives at 100 mph on a clear stretch of highway even though the
posted speed limit is 60 mph. Just because I can easily stoke up the 505
Gibbs to over 2500 fps does not mean that I do that. However the Weatherby
was at one point of time loaded to "2700 fps" by the factory and I was
looking for some proof that this was possible. The reason for this is that
Weatherby dropped their advertised velocity from 2700 to 2650 and now to
2600 fps. Bullet performance in Africa was perhaps one reason as the
Weatherby dropped the velocity as the nondescript FMJ performance envelop
was exceeded which caused these earlier FMJ to deform or come apart and
impede penetration. Or perhaps Weatherby initially overstated the velocity
of the 460 Wby. Or perhaps Norma used a proprietary powder to gain the
stated velocity. This is what I was REALLY looking for.
Regards,
PG
Peter Gnanapragasam
would provide that smae velocity within SAMMI limits out of a 26" bbl.
However are you sure that the PSI limit provided is PSI not CUP?
Also, I have never seen the Weatherby Guide. Is it still published by
Weatherby?
Thanks again
PG
Alex Cunningham
#"Peter Gnanapragasam" <pet...@shaw.ca> wrote:
# Thanks Alex that is what I was looking for. Funny thing is that Norma MRP
# would provide that smae velocity within SAMMI limits out of a 26" bbl.
# However are you sure that the PSI limit provided is PSI not CUP?
#
# Also, I have never seen the Weatherby Guide. Is it still published by
# Weatherby?
#
#
I cannot tell you if the Weatherby Guide is still available. I got my copy
some 35 years ago when I got my first Mark V. It was a .270 W. Magnum and it
came with a set of RCBS dies.
The ammo at that time was $72. for a box of 20 hence I got into reloading.
;-)
Your question regarding the issue of breech pressures got me searching my
various reloading data manuals. Not many of them even list the .460 WEA
data. They all seem to stop at .458 WIN. Even the IMR freeloaders guide does
not list .460 WEA data.
I cannot find anywhere in the Weatherby Guide where it definitively states
if the pressure data is in CUP or PSI it just lists it as "Avg. breech
pressure." The entry goes as follows.
Charge Powder Bullet Muzzle Velocity
AVG Breech Muzzle Energy
in 26"
Barrel Pressure in Foot-Pounds
126grs 4350 500gr 2707
55,130 8155.
The NRA book entry is as follows.
Bullet.
Weight 500gr.
Brand. HDY.
Shape. RNN.
Type. SP.
Powder.
Weight. 124gr
Brand. DUP.
Type. 4350.
Velocity
FPS.
2678.
Pressure.
CUP.
52980
Case Brand.
WEA.
Primer Brand.
FED
Type
215.
Cartridge OAL.
3.750.
Barrel Length
26"
Data Source.
WEA.
This is about all I can find for you amongst my books. Hope it is of some
use to you.
--
Cheers!
Alex.C
There are twelve million sheep in Ontario.
Problem is nine million of them think they are people.
nord...@yahoo.com
# I have brought many persons, co-workers and friends into shooting sports.
# Once they get walked through the safety and basic shooting stuff and squeeze
# of a few rounds many are hooked on shooting. �The others are at least a
# little friendlier to "gun nuts" and have an appreciation for shooting. �And
# no, I do not recommend a newcomer to the sport to shoot a 460 either. �
# Obviously one would hunt without the break
# on but once a load has been worked out you will need to practice off hand
# shooting with them. �I shoot them once a week off handed.
#
# ...the Weatherby
# was at one point of time loaded to "2700 fps" by the factory and I was
# looking for some proof that this was possible. �The reason for this is that
# Weatherby dropped their advertised velocity from 2700 to 2650 and now to
# 2600 fps. �Bullet performance in Africa was perhaps one reason as the
# Weatherby dropped the velocity as the nondescript FMJ performance envelop
# was exceeded which caused these earlier FMJ to deform or come apart and
# impede penetration. �Or perhaps Weatherby initially overstated the velocity
# of the 460 Wby. �Or perhaps Norma used a proprietary powder to gain the
# stated velocity. �This is what I was REALLY looking for.
After rereading my response to your inquiry I must apologize for being
rude. My testy reply hinged on several assumptions you have proved
incorrect. Good luck on your project and good hunting!
Peter Gnanapragasam
Does nayone here reload for the 460 Weatherby Magnum? Specifically looking
for loading data with IMR 4350 and Norma MRP for a 500gr. Has anyone hit
2700 fps with any reload recipies?
TIA
PG
Peter Gnanapragasam
I never the 460 would not kick and it does, but it is very manageable - it
does take technique and practice over a period of time. I have been
shooting big bores for awhile. That said I have often seen and heard
individuals scaring off others by over exaggerating the recoil of the big
bores rifles. There are those want to try out the rifle but with all the
anticipation of the big kick and built up nervousness they limp wrist the
rifle in the end and get spooked for good. Others are just put off by the
exaggerated anecdotes that they don't even try it. The hair on the chest
comment was merely in jest but makes my point (see smiley face). "Try it
you might like it" but work up to the big bores in stages.
I have brought many persons, co-workers and friends into shooting sports.
Once they get walked through the safety and basic shooting stuff and squeeze
of a few rounds many are hooked on shooting. The others are at least a
little friendlier to "gun nuts" and have an appreciation for shooting. And
no, I do not recommend a newcomer to the sport to shoot a 460 either. But
given some time (practice, technique and skill) I believe most people can
shoot these rifles.
As for a breaked 460 Wby, that is for shooting and working up loads. You
don't begrudge me using a break to work out a few loads ?? That is what
many individuals do with these rifles due to the amount of rounds which
would be fired per sitting. Many use a shoulder pad, muzzle break, Hg
dampeners, Pb sleds, weighted bags or a combination for shooting session
such as this. Obviously these are not 375 H&Hs which one can shoot through
20 rounds in a single sitting. Obviously one would hunt without the break
on but once a load has been worked out you will need to practice off hand
shooting with them. I shoot them once a week off handed.
As for speed and my desire to drive a 500gr over a Chrony to is no different
from one who drives at 100 mph on a clear stretch of highway even though the
posted speed limit is 60 mph. Just because I can easily stoke up the 505
Gibbs to over 2500 fps does not mean that I do that. However the Weatherby
was at one point of time loaded to "2700 fps" by the factory and I was
looking for some proof that this was possible. The reason for this is that
Weatherby dropped their advertised velocity from 2700 to 2650 and now to
2600 fps. Bullet performance in Africa was perhaps one reason as the
Weatherby dropped the velocity as the nondescript FMJ performance envelop
was exceeded which caused these earlier FMJ to deform or come apart and
impede penetration. Or perhaps Weatherby initially overstated the velocity
of the 460 Wby. Or perhaps Norma used a proprietary powder to gain the
stated velocity. This is what I was REALLY looking for.
Regards,
PG
Alex Cunningham
#
# Does nayone here reload for the 460 Weatherby Magnum? Specifically
# looking
# for loading data with IMR 4350 and Norma MRP for a 500gr. Has anyone hit
# 2700 fps with any reload recipies?
#
# TIA
# PG
If you wish and, your email addy above is legit I will scan the page from
the Weatherby Guide and send it to you.
--
Cheers!
Alex.C
There are twelve million sheep in Ontario.
Problem is nine million of them think they are people.
------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Gnanapragasam
Alex Cunningham
#
#
Will get it to you later this afternoon.
BTW I googled the guide and it is out of print but I did find a couple of
sites that were selling some older versions than mine in the region of $95.
Seems a lot of money for such a thin book. :-)
--
Cheers!
Alex.C
There are twelve million sheep in Ontario.
Problem is nine million of them think they are people.
------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Gnanapragasam
I have it. I have never seen that Weatherby publication... or heard of it.
But a picture is worth a thousand words!
Happy New Year!
PG
Alex Cunningham
#
# I have it. I have never seen that Weatherby publication... or heard of
# it.
# But a picture is worth a thousand words!
Are you referring to the Weatherby Guide or the .577 Nitro video clip? ;-)
#
# Happy New Year!
#
Happy New Year to you also, Peter.
--
Cheers!
Alex.C
There are twelve million sheep in Ontario.
Problem is nine million of them think they are people.
------------------------------------------------------------