Re: The Primer In A 25 A.C.P. Makes A Difference.

[Jeffrey]

On Friday, July 6, 2012 4:14:02 PM UTC-5, jsl...@gmail.com wrote:
# I have my lee Microdisk powder measure throwing a charge of Green Dot. The
# charge is consistent every time except for + or - .1 but that does not concern
# me when i am loading for a Taurus PT 25 because i know that i have a strong gun.
# There are those that have the Phoenix .25's and perhaps the Phoenix .25 owners
# should stick with factory ammunition unless the charge is well below the maximum.
# Those who would reload for less expensive options in particular will need to make
# sure that their gun will stand up to the variation in powder charge. My chronograph
# was showing 600 f.p.s. when using Winchester small pistol primers. I switch to
# Remington small pistol primers and i get 800 f.p.s. which is more like it should
# be. I hope that Winchester primers are not that weak in every caliber. Perhaps the
# Winchester primers will do any better in 32 A.C.P. since the .32 will hold more powder.

I know i misspelled a lot of words since the screaming relative children came over but i am sure everyone gets my point.

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[Gunner Asch]

You actually reload the 25 ACP???????? Whatever for?

Gunner

[Jeffrey]

On Friday, July 6, 2012 5:39:27 PM UTC-5, Gunner Asch wrote:
# You actually reload the 25 ACP???????? Whatever for?

I do it because i have the Lee six cavity bullet mold for the 25 ACP. The p=
owder charge is small and the amount of lead that is poured in the six cavi=
ty mold is a small amount of lead and it will produce six .257 bullets at a=
time. I got the mold from Ranch Dog Outdoors. I tumble lube with Lee liqui=
d Alox. This will make me a box of shells in very short order when i can Le=
e Microdisk the powder charge because the Taurus PT 25 is a strong enough g=
un to handle any slight variation in powder charge. The .25 ACP gets a bad =
rap at least for what it is because many of the .25 ACP pistols are a casti=
ng of zinc allow and the manufacturers will load the factory ammunition by =
taking the zinc allow pistols into account. I am also not going to pay $15.=
99 for a box of factory 25's when the shell casings can be reloaded many ti=
mes. The .25 ACP is actually a lot of fun when i shoot it in an area where =
the .25 ACP shell casings are easy to find and reload. This way i don't get=
ripped off on the ammunition.

[clarkm...@gmail.com]

I have a Colt 1908 25acp that I have worked up handloads to see how much power I can get.

That ~ 2.5 times the max published powder charge, before the primer falls out.


I have a Vesta 25acp that I have worked up handloads to see how much power I can get.

That is much less before the primer pierces due to poor firing pin to firing pin hole fit. That firing pin strikes so weakly, that the thicker cup of a magnum small pistol primer will not be set off.




I guessed that the max power is exactly the same with my Beretta 950 25acp as my Colt.
I was exactly right.

I was looking at; case support, chamber wall thickness, and firing pin fit.

The most popular published loads are with Bullseye, but Power Pistol works much better.

The hot load for the good 25acp pistols: 50 gr .452" long bullet .251" FMJ, 5.5 gr Power Pistol, seated at .9".

The hot load is actually loud and makes the shooting hand hurt from recoil.
My wimpy 240 pound brother can only stand to shoot 4 gr power pistol. The recoil hurts him.

[MODERATOR: Don't do this at home, kids.... ]

[pyotr filipivich]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Fri, 6 Jul 2012 22:39:27 +0000
(UTC) typed in rec.guns the following:

|You actually reload the 25 ACP???????? Whatever for?

Everybody needs/has a hobby.

tschus
pyotr

[Gunner Asch]

On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 08:42:05 +0000 (UTC), pyotr filipivich
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:

#Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Fri, 6 Jul 2012 22:39:27 +0000
#(UTC) typed in rec.guns the following:
#|You actually reload the 25 ACP???????? Whatever for?
#
# Everybody needs/has a hobby.
#
#tschus
#pyotr
Yabut....the 25????

Okydoky.

Are there any accurate guns in 25ACP?????

Gunner

[Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley]

On Saturday, July 7, 2012 9:15:50 AM UTC-6, Gunner Asch wrote:
# Are there any accurate guns in 25ACP?????

I see reports on the net that MGM can/has make TC Contender barrels in 25acp, although their website doesn't list this caliber. Should be pretty accurate. See

http://www.shootersforum.com/handloading-procedures-practices/78992-new-contender-project-need-help.html
and
http://www.matchgrademachine.com/

[pyotr filipivich]

Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Sat, 7 Jul 2012 15:15:50 +0000

(UTC) typed in rec.guns the following:

#On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 08:42:05 +0000 (UTC), pyotr filipivich
#<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
#
##Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Fri, 6 Jul 2012 22:39:27 +0000
##(UTC) typed in rec.guns the following:
##|You actually reload the 25 ACP???????? Whatever for?
##
## Everybody needs/has a hobby.
##
##tschus
##pyotr
#Yabut....the 25????
#
#Okydoky.
#

|Are there any accurate guns in 25ACP?????

He's trying to see if he can make it work?

I had a friend who wanted to make a Geo-Spectrum into a hot-rod.
He got married instead.
--
pyotr filipivich

[Gunner Asch]

On Sat, 7 Jul 2012 16:57:35 +0000 (UTC), Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley
<cowar...@yahoo.com> wrote:

#On Saturday, July 7, 2012 9:15:50 AM UTC-6, Gunner Asch wrote:
## Are there any accurate guns in 25ACP?????
#
#I see reports on the net that MGM can/has make TC Contender barrels in 25acp, although their website doesn't list this caliber. Should be pretty accurate. See
#
#http://www.shootersforum.com/handloading-procedures-practices/78992-new-contender-project-need-help.html
#and
#http://www.matchgrademachine.com/
#

That might indeed be a fun gun to play with. Though one can shoot it
cheaper by simply buying a 22lr barrel and shooting 22 Shorts through
it. Might be more accurate as well. Shrug

Im not trying to beat the gentleman up whatsoever. Forgive me if I came
off that way.

I was simply amazed that anyone would go to the effort of actually
reloading the 25 ACP. Amazed because there are few 25 ACP firearms out
there that are capable of any sort of accuracy worth the time and effort
(and money) of reloading the cartridge.

Ive always considered the 25 ACP to be not much more than a starter
pistol for races. As a self defense cartridge..its not..and with its
minimal power...it would appear to be not much good for anything other
than a noise maker.

In my law enforcement days..Ive seen the results of a number of
shootings with the .25 and with 2 exceptions..all the victims survived,
some not even being aware that they had been shot. One exception was an
street execution where multiple rounds were fired in the back of the
victims head..only 2 of which actually penetrated the skull, and the
other was a woman who at a party..went upstairs and shot herself in the
side of the head with a single round.
5-15 minutes later..she woke up, and went back down to the party and
danced for another 45 minutes..at which time an artery in her brain
finally ruptured and she fell dead on the dance floor.

So its not a self defense round of any sort, its not suitible for small
game in any pistol that Im aware of, its not terribly accurate..though
in a proper barrel it can be made to shoot accurately one assumes.

So the best I can come up with..is that its a starter pistol of dubious
value. And that would be better served with a blank gun. Afterall..it
does shoot a 50 gr bullet and if fired into the air..it may put someones
eye out at some distance away.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/174635-25-acp-accuracy-test.html

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2265587

http://www.star-firearms.com/firearms/guns/c/

Now..it would not surprise me if Hammerli or other similar companies
made a target pistol in the 25, but Ive been looking for the past 10
minutes..and have yet to find anything except hints about it..so they
were not very common.

My appologies to the OP if Ive offended him, that was not my intent.

Gunner, who does own (but seldom shoots) a Savage 1907.

[Jeffrey]

I gave the Winchester small pistol primers another chance with Herco and it=
got me back up to 800 f.p.s. just the same as the Green Dot did with the R=
emington small pistol primers. I suppose that Unique would also work since =
Herco and Unique are very close as far as i can tell. It makes me figure th=
at you may sometimes need a slower powder with certain primers. I will have=
to see this as being the value of a chronograph. The primer and powder com=
bination can post different results in any calibre and the chronograph will=
let you know what it is actually doing.

[Jeffrey]

I was not offended by Gunner. In fact i would even agree that the effects o=
f the .25's are quite sketchy at best. Nathanial Brazil had managed to kill=
his school teacher with a single shot from a Raven .25 which i think was i=
n the face. Then there are the many other incidents in which the .25 would =
either fail to be effective or it would be effective without a shot being f=
ired due to seeing the pistol and not wanting to get shot even if it is onl=
y a .25 calibre. Then there are the incidents in which the .25 would not ki=
ll until maybe here in an hour or two when a blood vessel might burst on th=
e dance floor or something. It is too bad that the .25's that really did h=
ave some class such as the Mauser 1910 are no longer being manufactured. Th=
e Taurus PT25 in many examples will shoot high but it will pattern. The sin=
gle action Beretta .25's can be amazingly accurate for such a tiny pistol f=
rom the people i have seen who have got the Beretta.

[Herb Leong]

In article <jt7pev$e6l$1...@news.albasani.net>,
Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
#You actually reload the 25 ACP???????? Whatever for?

Considering the cost of a box of .25 ACP, reloading is a cost saving option.
My biggest complaint with regards to making .25 ACP is that Dillon no longer makes
a .25 ACP shell plate for the 550 and I have to us a single stage press.

/herb

[Herb Leong]

In article <jtajlb$33r$1...@news.albasani.net>,
Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
# Ive always considered the 25 ACP to be not much more than a starter
#pistol for races. As a self defense cartridge..its not..and with its
#minimal power...it would appear to be not much good for anything other
#than a noise maker.

There was once a poster to this group named J. David Phillips. He had a
interesting tale from his gun shop owning days.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/rec.guns/zsBQhhk04js

What I took away from his tale is that a .25 ACP loaded with winchester
whitebox hardball is worth more than a 100 1911s all loaded with super
deluxe death blossoms, just out of reach.

He was a really nice guy, and I miss him...

/herb

[Gunner Asch]

On Mon, 9 Jul 2012 09:45:14 +0000 (UTC), he...@urusei.net (Herb Leong)
wrote:

#In article <jtajlb$33r$1...@news.albasani.net>,
#Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
## Ive always considered the 25 ACP to be not much more than a starter
##pistol for races. As a self defense cartridge..its not..and with its
##minimal power...it would appear to be not much good for anything other
##than a noise maker.
#
#There was once a poster to this group named J. David Phillips. He had a
#interesting tale from his gun shop owning days.
#
#https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/rec.guns/zsBQhhk04js
#
#What I took away from his tale is that a .25 ACP loaded with winchester
#whitebox hardball is worth more than a 100 1911s all loaded with super
#deluxe death blossoms, just out of reach.
#
#He was a really nice guy, and I miss him...
#
#/herb
#

I remember him.

Damned shame he didnt keep a .45 on his person.

I wonder why he moved to Brazil? And died there.

Gunner

[Tom]

# I remember him.
#
# Damned shame he didnt keep a .45 on his person.
#
# I wonder why he moved to Brazil? And died there.
#
# Gunner
#
#

Gunner,

He was good friends with another on this group who may yet respond
to this. I had some limited email and hand written letters with
J. David after his injuries. I had sent him a die to help him
with his newly begun .308 Win reloading efforts. He was very
appreciative of that.
At one point he mentioned that his wife was from Brazil and that
they were moving there due to that. A real shame he got sick
there and died after all he had been through here and survived.

Kind Regards,

Tom

[Ralph Mowery]

"Herb Leong" <he...@urusei.net> wrote in message
news:jte97a$ic6$1...@news.albasani.net...
# There was once a poster to this group named J. David Phillips. He had a
# interesting tale from his gun shop owning days.
#
# https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/rec.guns/zsBQhhk04js
#
# What I took away from his tale is that a .25 ACP loaded with winchester
# whitebox hardball is worth more than a 100 1911s all loaded with super
# deluxe death blossoms, just out of reach.
#
#

Any gun you have on you is worth more than what you have that you can not
get to.

I admitt that I am not up on all the small guns of the past years, but there
seemed to be only a few small guns around years ago. The Seacamp was a 32
cal if I remember and it took a long time to get one for a high price at
that. Otherwise you were stuck with a 25 cal. There were some 380s around,
but many were not that reliable.

Now you can get the 380 and 9 mm in about the same size as the old 25 cal
handguns.

At one time I carried an AMT 380 in DAO. I still do sometimes, but most
often I have gone to a Kel-Tek in the 40 cal. Some have reported problems,
but I have fired over 500 rounds of handloads and not had a jam. I slightly
download it with bullets around 150 gr. That gun will fit in my pocket.
I do have larger guns that I can carry on my hip, but the Kel-Tec is quick
to grab and put in the pocket.

[Stanley Schaefer]

On Jul 7, 6:18=A0pm, Gunner Asch <gunnera...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snippage>
#
# Now..it would not surprise me if Hammerli or other similar companies
# made a target pistol in the 25, but Ive been looking for the past 10
# minutes..and have yet to find anything except hints about it..so they
# were not very common.
#
# My appologies to the OP if Ive offended him, that was not my intent.
#
# Gunner, who does own (but seldom shoots) a Savage 1907.
#
Back in the early part of the 20th, there WERE target-grade .25s, at
least according to my European collector's books and guys used them.
Now what grade of accuracy they were getting, they're silent on that.
Came with two barrels, a long target one and a short pocket one. I've
not seen one at the various collectors shows, so they apparently
didn't make it over here in great numbers. Probably were all
confiscated and slagged during/after WWII.

I have loaded the .25, at one time it was cheaper to drop a grain of
Bullseye in a case with a hand-cast Lyman slug than to buy .22s.
Haven't messed with it in recent years, I'd rather use the expensive
primers in .357s, have a half a coffee can of empties, though. That's
needed because the brass is NEVER found. Might recover one or two out
of a box. The NAA revolvers have kind of taken the place of the
autos, no jamming, anyway, and smaller. Since '68, there's been no
new .25s coming in and the domestic production isn't anywhere near as
classy as the old Baby Brownings or Colts were. There's a domestic
manufactured copy of the Browning retailed under Browning's name out
there, you pay about as much for it as you would for a cheap .45.
Factory ammo isn't very cheap, either.

Stan

[Gunner Asch]

I felt a twinge, when I found out he had passed. I rather liked his
posting style and content.

Gunner

[clarkm...@gmail.com]

On Monday, July 9, 2012 2:38:41 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:
# I felt a twinge, when I found out he had passed. I rather liked his
# posting style and content.



It is hard to hold a 25acp for long without remembering him.


To make an accurate 25acp, you will need a barrel.
Looks like Redman is not listing the barrels, but Track the Wolf still has some in stock.

[Herb Leong]

In article <jteeq4$tcn$1...@news.albasani.net>,
Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
#I remember him.
#
#Damned shame he didnt keep a .45 on his person.
#
#I wonder why he moved to Brazil? And died there.
#
#Gunner

His first wife got hit with the Big C and he managed to find another
woman who could also put up with him (this is rare, according to
his comments.) She is a lawyer there and her dad is a judge. Last
email I got from him indicated that he was a VERY happy camper.

I heard he passed on from some sort of infection.

/herb

[SaPeIsMa]

# I heard he passed on from some sort of infection.
#

Getting sliced and diced, and skewered like a pin-cushion can cause a
serious weakening of the immune system over the long term

[haraoi...@yahoo.com]

On Monday, July 9, 2012 9:45:14 AM UTC, Herb Leong wrote:
# In article ,
# Gunner Asch wrote:
# # Ive always considered the 25 ACP to be not much more than a starter
# #pistol for races. As a self defense cartridge..its not..and with its
# #minimal power...it would appear to be not much good for anything other
# #than a noise maker.
#
# There was once a poster to this group named J. David Phillips. He had a
# interesting tale from his gun shop owning days.
#
# https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&amp;fromgroups#!topic/rec.guns/zsBQhhk04js
#
# What I took away from his tale is that a .25 ACP loaded with winchester
# whitebox hardball is worth more than a 100 1911s all loaded with super
# deluxe death blossoms, just out of reach.
#
# He was a really nice guy, and I miss him...

Amen.

[Jeffrey]

I sent $30.00 to Lee prercision this week and got them to make me a custom
factory crimp die for the 25 A.C.P. This did solve the low velocities i was
getting with Winchester small pistol primers.I suppose that Winchester sma
ll pistol primers do indeed require a firm crimp at least in certain calibe
rs.

[Gunner Asch]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2012 12:18:54 +0000 (UTC), Jeffrey <js...@peoplepc.com>
wrote:

#
#I sent $30.00 to Lee prercision this week and got them to make me a custom
#factory crimp die for the 25 A.C.P. This did solve the low velocities i was
# getting with Winchester small pistol primers.I suppose that Winchester sma
#ll pistol primers do indeed require a firm crimp at least in certain calibe
#rs.

I doubt its the result of the primer, but the small bullet and small
case holding with some varibility due to crimp "slop"

With the 25..you need to use every trick you can find.