9mm in .357 revolver?
KRUEGER, CHARLES M
I have been reading this group with great interest for
awhile now, but have not had a good reason to participate.
I shoot a Browning 9mm FN High Power (made in Belgium/
assembled in Portugal) and reload 9mm ammo. My grad student
shoots a Ruger SP101 .357 and also reloads.
Erik asked me if he could simply buy 9mm moon clips and
then also shoot 9mm in his revolver. I know that the 9mm
belongs to the .38/.357 falmily of cartriges and is similar
to several other .357 cartridges (e.g., .380 auto), but I
don't know the answer to his question. Could I please have
some help from the net? Is it safe? Will 9mm shoot accurately
from a .357 revolver? Will a steady diet of this short round
eventually damage the revolver or hurt accuracy in any way?
Etc. Thanks in advance for your response. Charles
Joe Chew
Short answer: "no." The long, rimmed .38/.357 revolver
cartridges are completely different from the short , rimless
9mm auto cartridges. A 9mm is too fat to go into a .38 or
.357 revolver's cylinder, unless maybe you pounded it in with
a hammer or otherwise dissed Mack Daddy Darwin. It's a few
hundredths of an inch too fat. (Yes, I know .357 inch equals
9 mm. Caliber Math is like the New Math, except that it never
does make sense no matter how long you think on it.)
There are some 9mm revolvers that are quite similar to the
same maker's .357s -- Smith and Wesson is fond of the things --
and some semiautos (Baby Eagle, Coonan, etc.) that shoot .357.
But these are factory or heavy-gunsmithing variations, not
"user-configurable options."
Cheers,
--Joe
Whyte, Kevin
You can purchase a 9mm cy linder for the Ruger Blackhawk. If you do this
however don't purchase 9mm reloads to fire in this gun. I tried 3D as well
as Ultramax and both had problems fitting into the tight cylinders.
John E. Burton Jr.
point. I have a Ruger Blackhawk 357/9mm convertible (don't ask why). I
also have tons of 9mm brass and no 9mm. Interestingly enough, I find
most of my 9mm loads are EXTREMELY accurate in THIS Blackhawk, and more
accurate than any 38 or 357 loads I have developed to date! Don't know
bore diameter, but know it works well!
Just my practical, unscientific findings.
Others may differ.
John Burton
Norman F. Johnson
# Erik asked me if he could simply buy 9mm moon clips and then also
# shoot 9mm in his revolver. I know that the 9mm belongs to
# the .38/.357 falmily of cartriges and is similar to several
# other .357 cartridges (e.g., .380 auto), but I don't know the
The cylinder would not close. Headspace is not sufficient to
allow it to do so.
Notice that the .45 Auto Rim cartridge has a very thick rim
(.089"). This was done so that it would fire interchangably
in .45 ACP revolvers like the 1917 colt and S&W, etc. Its rim
thickness equals the thickness of the .45 ACP rim added to that
of the moon clip.
If someone were to make up a ".38 Auto Rim" and chamber a
revolver for it, that would work. Of course the difference in
bullet sizes, .354 vs .357 would not make for the best accuracy
potential but that could be partially overcome by proper sizing
of bore and cylinder throats.
Interesting thought.
God Bless!
Norm
Robert J. Schmidt
Norman F. Johnson <njoh...@marlin.nosc.mil> wrote:
#CHARLES,
#
## Erik asked me if he could simply buy 9mm moon clips and then also
## shoot 9mm in his revolver.
#
#If someone were to make up a ".38 Auto Rim" and chamber a
#revolver for it, that would work. Of course the difference in
#bullet sizes, .354 vs .357 would not make for the best accuracy
#potential but that could be partially overcome by proper sizing
#of bore and cylinder throats.
#
#Interesting thought.
#
#Norm
#
I thought this was already tried with the "9mm Federal". This is a
9mm Para. with a rim for use in some revolvers (charter arms I think)
I'm not sure if it still available - but it was tried.
l8r,
Bob
--
Bob Schmidt | " Only two things are infinite; the universe and |
rj...@Virginia.EDU | human stupidity, and I am not sure about the former"|
University of | Albert Einstein |
Virginia | |
mong...@apollo.hp.com
|> I thought this was already tried with the "9mm Federal". This is a
|> 9mm Para. with a rim for use in some revolvers (charter arms I think)
|> I'm not sure if it still available - but it was tried.
|>
As a special note, one of my spare time projects
is converting a once scraped S&W 586-6" to a Plate/
Action revolver with internal comp. to (are you ready?)
38 Super....a truly neglected cartridge using full
moon clips such as the S&W 625-2"s,1955's, M-1917's ect.
I shoot alot of 38 Super, so having a decent revolver
for the same cal. seems natural. Being able to load
the Super in a wheel gun also has some unique hand-
loading possibilities such as a 148 grs. wad cutter.
Such a loading in the auto would require alot of
attention to gun and ammo for reliable function.
If this conversion is sucessful, I am sure I will
enjoy this novel arm. With a cartridge more than the
9MM/38 spl but under the 357 Mag, this my be just right.
STD. disclaimers apply....
Regards,
B. D. Mongeon
D.E. Watters
mong...@apollo.HP.COM () writes:
# As a special note, one of my spare time projects
#is converting a once scraped S&W 586-6" to a Plate/
#Action revolver with internal comp. to (are you ready?)
#38 Super....a truly neglected cartridge using full
#moon clips such as the S&W 625-2"s,1955's, M-1917's ect.
#
# I shoot alot of 38 Super, so having a decent revolver
#for the same cal. seems natural. Being able to load
#the Super in a wheel gun also has some unique hand-
#loading possibilities such as a 148 grs. wad cutter.
#Such a loading in the auto would require alot of
#attention to gun and ammo for reliable function.
#
# If this conversion is sucessful, I am sure I will
#enjoy this novel arm. With a cartridge more than the
#9MM/38 spl but under the 357 Mag, this my be just right.
Actually, .38 Super (which is a semi-rimmed case) should headspace just
fine in a .357 Revolver without the use of a full-moon clip conversion.
John Taffin once wrote that he often tested the accuracy of his .38 Super
loads by shooting them in his pet S&W Model 27 first. Dan Cotterman
also played around with a similar idea by trimming .38 Special cases
down to .900 inch (basicly a full rimmed .38 Super) and calling it the
.357 Short.
Before you spend your money on the full-moon conversion, you may want to
play around with a Safariland Comp III speedloader with your .38 Super rounds.
It is quite fast, and you won't have the problem of finding suitable carriers.
But if you really like the idea of full-moon clips, Baumanize will convert
your 586 cylinder for full-moon use for $99. (This price also applies to
the GP-100 conversion. The S&W N-Frame 7-shot conversion costs more because
of a completely new cylinder: it runs about $300.)
By the way, you've already been beaten in the .38 Super revolver idea.
One shooter at USPSA/IPSC Nationals had a large-frame Astra .357 converted
into an *EIGHT* shot .38 Super.
Keep us informed on your progress,
D.E. Watters
College of Criminal Justice
University of South Carolina
Christopher Morton
# Didn't some handgun company put out revolvers with interchangable
# cylinders; one .357 and the other 9mm?
I believe that Ruger did this for the Blackhawk.
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William Chen
#Didn't some handgun company put out revolvers with interchangable
cylinders; one .357 and the other 9mm?
Well, I pick up my Ruger Blk Hawk in .357 and 9mm on the 9th. Joy!
so, yes there IS a .357/9mm revolver.
-Will
gost...@gold.tc.umn.edu
#Didn't some handgun company put out revolvers with interchangable
A Ruger Blackhawk came with .357 and 9mm cylinders. I imagine I'm not the
first to reply, but I can't pass up my first chance to teach you something.
8-)
What type of competition are you involved in, Highpower? Were (are) you on
the Palma Team?
Thanks for taking the time to post so much info, you could probably edit
your posts into a nice pamphlet on highpower shooting.
alex
Bart Bobbitt
: A Ruger Blackhawk came with .357 and 9mm cylinders. I imagine I'm not the
: first to reply, but I can't pass up my first chance to teach you something.
: 8-)
Thanks for the info. I get taught things every day.
: What type of competition are you involved in, Highpower? Were (are) you on
: the Palma Team?
Highpower and some smallbore prone. I've been on, and am on, the current
USA Palma Team.
: Thanks for taking the time to post so much info, you could probably edit
: your posts into a nice pamphlet on highpower shooting.
You're welcome. Regarding the pamphlet........
Well, I doubt if many folks would read it. If they did, they'ld not
believe most of it anyway.
BB
James P. Callison
Norman F. Johnson <njoh...@marlin.nosc.mil> wrote:
#CHARLES,
#
## shoot 9mm in his revolver. I know that the 9mm belongs to
## the .38/.357 falmily of cartriges and is similar to several
## other .357 cartridges (e.g., .380 auto), but I don't know the
#
#The cylinder would not close. Headspace is not sufficient to
#allow it to do so.
#
#Notice that the .45 Auto Rim cartridge has a very thick rim
#(.089"). This was done so that it would fire interchangably
#in .45 ACP revolvers like the 1917 colt and S&W, etc. Its rim
#thickness equals the thickness of the .45 ACP rim added to that
#of the moon clip.
#If someone were to make up a ".38 Auto Rim" and chamber a
#revolver for it, that would work. Of course the difference in
#bullet sizes, .354 vs .357 would not make for the best accuracy
#potential but that could be partially overcome by proper sizing
#of bore and cylinder throats.
Can we say "9mm Federal?" I knew you could. A rimmed round, designed
to do the same job as .45 AutoRim (ie, be usable in a revolver
without using moon clips), the 9mm Federal has the unique distinction
of going almost instantaneously from the drawing board to the collector's
shelf.
In other words, it was an unmitigated failure. It was in production
for a year or so (I think; it's in _Ctgs_of_the_World_). S&W (I think)
made a revolver chambered for it, but that went the way of the round
as well.
There are a few 9mm revolvers (S&W makes one, I think), as well as
revolvers with interchangable cylinders for shooting both .357/.38
and 9mm (the Ruger Blackhawk, I think, has this option).
The main problem with using 9mm in a .357 isn't the rim, though; it's
the sharp taper of the case, which would lend itself to splitting the
case. That, and 9mm headspaces on the ctg mouth, while .357 and .38
headspace on the rim. 9mm is also wider than .357 at the base, so it
won't fit into a .357 cylinder chamber. (Or maybe a Colt Python is
a special case. :-)
James
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